Career Options for Singaporean in Singapore - Sponsored or Self Sponsored

[9M-]

Hi,

Thought of setting up this thread to gather Singaporeans who have a passion for taking up flying as a career and also those whom had already gotten their license but are still waiting for a chance to get into their dream job.

We can share our experiences either through here or maybe some gathering where we can give tips and latest information for the aviation market scene in Singapore.

Currently i have a blog: Dream of Flight ( Dream Of Flight (http://www.dreamofflight.org) ) where i post articles sharing my journey to becoming a pilot as well as holding free talk session and joy ride to the aspiring pilots in Singapore. The next talk session will be held in Singapore on the 24th Aug 2012 7pm-10pm. Do visit the blog to get more information.

I am just hoping more aspiring pilot can have a clearer picture of the steps needed to achieve their dream of flying and not make mistakes or wrong choices. Keep the thread lively so that more can benefit from this. Thanks.

[SingaporeAirlines]

ABOUT ******* TIME THIS THREAD GOT STARTED!!!

haha congratulations and YES YES please keep this thread alive! :ok:

lemme intro myself. im your friendly nextdoor malay uncle who has an NUS Applied Math degree, got rejected by SIA. Worked as an analyst in a major investment bank. saved up money. went to massey got my cpl and associated ratings and started banner towing in NZ. then i flew twin otters in papau new guinea and got my first learjet gig in Brunei and am now happily employed as a Gulfstream G550 First Officer.

Anything PM me. :cool:

[9M-]

Hi SingaporeAirlines,

Thanks for sharing with us your credential. It is nice to see all the hard work paid off when you land yourself a job that you love. Since i started this thread, i will also introduce myself briefly. I started flying back in Brisbane when i was doing my degree course. After graduation, i returned back to Singapore looking for places to fly. I found out that the airspace in Singapore is too limited so i went over to Johor to convert my Aus PPL to a Malaysian PPL. Thereafter i continue to pursue my dream and gotten myself an instructor rating and continued to instruct in Johor for the next 3 years.

During this time, i upgraded myself to CPL/IR and also ATPL papers by self studying. I was quite fortunate and landed myself a job with a local carrier in Singapore. Hope with my experience, i can help more of you out there and give you better tips and advice. Cheers! Keep the thread alive~:)

[9M-]

Are there really no more aspiring pilots or present pilots in Singapore waiting and hoping one day to become a commercial pilot with an airline?

This thread have over 200+ view and only 1 replied. Is it really solving the myth that we are running out of pilot pool and outsourcing is the only way?

Come on people, reply and make this thread alive to show that we have many aspiring and current pilot pool in Singapore. Thanks!

[SingaporeAirlines]

Bump bump bumpity bump. I would love to do this and volunteer with you guys once I am in out of Brunei

[9M-]

You are always welcome. Let me know when you are in sg. :)

[sgcloudchaser]

heart warming to see there are people who still care about singaporean looking for a career in piloting, given the limited opportunity around this region.

got rejected by SQ after medical, but may be already on the high side of age to take the big financial risk to seek for the ultimate career in piloting. getting a job in flying is really a super tough journey for some, and the risk equation is often against the seeker. Route to being a pilot in singapore = (large $ investment for training + 2-3yrs training just to get a CPL/IR + suitable age to land a pilot job + luck in getting through carrier recruitment + medical class 1 + fall back plan) ... all these are on top of the first and foremost aptitude to fly (motorskill+math+science)...

SFC, STATA, jetstar ab initio, sq ab initio ... how many self-sponsored individuals are still training to get a CPL, and how many of them who gotten a CPL but still having no luck in landing any decent job?

[eerie]

Me....
Aspiring Pilot.
Ppl holder Slightly above 100 plus hour dual and solo. Unrestricted..
Still working on the dollars and cents. Age 31

[showtime777]

flying the G550 sounds way better. Congrats!

[9M-]

Hi Eerie and Sgcloudchaser,

Thanks for the reply. Nice to see you guys working towards your goal. I agree with Sgcloudchaser that the route from training to eventually lending a job in the pilot sector is definitely not easy at all. Let alone talking about the amount of money one have to put in.

That is why i am trying so hard to reach out to more aspiring pilots to share with all how i had gone through the tougher route and hopefully with my experience, more can gain from it and choose a wiser path.

Let me know if you guys are interested to come have a chat on the 24th of Aug during the talk session and we can all learn from one another. Email is: [email protected]

Take care for now.

[dl_88]

Local guy, 24 & still in Aust completing my degree.
I should be done by mid next year.
PPL with about 160hrs or so.

I believe that there is a pool of pilots who are based out of SG and no doubt would like to go back to SG. (that's my belief w no data to back me up, so don't flame me!)
It's already hard for a singaporean to get a job flying, and plus the fact that holding a SG passport doesn't really give much options to have the residency in other countries to work in (obviously a requirement).

Looking to fly for a regional airlines out of SG.

[bolueeleh]

got into aviation while in the airforce, operated UAVs seacher system, after ORD went to states to do CPL and time building, came back 1300+ hrs, 1000 multi, on the verge of landing the pilot job for starhub airship then 911 happened.

then odd jobs for 2 years, got called back for airship job, started as a crew and endured for a year of kicking around finally got lighter than air rating, did airship pilot for 1 yr+ in states

then stop airship life, got 1600+ and ATPL, came back went for SIA cadet, no joy, becoz no degree, at the meantime SIA advertising for cadets in malaysia and india.

present age 39, too late liao

long story short, if not sponsored dun do it, singapore its one of the few countries in the world that does not take care of its own citizens.

[9M-]

Hi bolueeleh and dl_88,

Thanks for sharing. I know this industry could be cruel at time but if it is a dream of yours, let it be doing odd jobs to survive, the most important thing is never give up. I have friends who are in the 40s before landing themselves a job with the airlines. So anything is possible. Continue to keep current and upgrade yourself.

If there is anything i can help do email me. Thanks.

[PW4000]

Will be interested to attend the talk.:D

[500 above]

got into aviation while in the airforce, operated UAVs seacher system, after ORD went to states to do CPL and time building, came back 1300+ hrs, 1000 multi, on the verge of landing the pilot job for starhub airship then 911 happened.

I used to fly the Starhub Airship in the early days when it was out of Marina City park. If you are by any chance initials CW, I left before you came on the scene. Many happy memories of Singapore. AC was the chief pilot at the time for the base.

[9M-]

I kind of miss the airship…although i didn't have much chance to get close to it.

PW4000 email me and i will give you more info for the talk.

[tcw3]

I hope someone on this thread can assist me. I am outside Singapore and have started investigating the job opportunities there. However, there is one 'potential' stumbling block I need to get figured out. Over 6 yrs ago I had successful laser eye surgery to improve my vision.

Question: if a pilot were to go to a designated aviation credential type doctor in Singapore in order to get a proper Gov't pilot's Medical license (or do they call it a certificate?), would that otherwise healthy pilot be denied a Medical license if he/she had previously had successful laser eye surgery to improve their vision?

Shorter version of the same question.....does the issuing Gov't authority allow that a commercial pilot may have had either PRK or Lasik type laser eye surgery? I have heard that the Gov't or Japan does not allow any pilots to have had this type of procedure. I am trying to learn if the Gov't Dept in Singapore has a similar policy or perhaps they allow it like the US, Canada and many countries in Europe.

I am willing to do my own homework. Can anyone give me the website link that connects to the Singapore Gov't regulations on this medical vision topic? If not a website, is there a phone number you can give me for the Governments Aviation Medical Dept or Bureau where I can inquire?

appreciate whatever stories, rules, rumors, facts or knowledge you can pass on. I am sure you understand my situation in that I don't want to be cranking up the job search effort much further if any openings in Singapore will ultimately be off limits to me.

Thanks

[flying.monkeyz]

http://www.caas.gov.sg/caasWeb2010/export/sites/caas/en/Regulations/Safety/Singapore_Air_Safety_Publications_SASP/SASP_Part_9_Medical_Requirements_for_the_Grant_or_Renewal_of _Flight_Crew_Licences_and_Air_Traffic_Controller_Licence/SASP9_Issue2_Amendment1.pdf

[9M-]

Hi tcw3,

To answer your question in simplest way, if you have undergone Lasik 6 years ago, then CAAS will have no problem issuing you a professional licence provided you pass the CAAS Class 1 medical.

I have lasik and i am holding CAAS atpl. Cheers!

[Virtual Reality]

........im your friendly nextdoor malay uncle who has .......


That explained it all ......:ugh:



VR ........:cool:

[tcw3]

I would like to thank 9M and flying.monkeyz. Your advice and that website reference were spot on. Appreciate the (quick) assistance.

Hope it doesn't sound like I am pushing my luck, but might any of you be aware of the rules on refractive surgery in mainland China, Korea or Japan? Do you have any friends that have applied for work in those areas? I started a Thread on PPrune Asia to solicit input for these areas.

(Ours is a unique business. Pilots always have to do research for Regulations, jobs and weather. Occasionally we have to behave like a detective or journalist tracking down a story.)

tcw3

[bolueeleh]

@500 above

AC & CW were my instructors, :)

[500 above]

Ahh OK, so you were a few years after me. I left TLG in 2001 to go back to fixed wing.

[mynameisjon]

@bolueeleh, 100% behind you with what you said. Not sponsored don't do if you're Singaporean.

The saying "if you at first you don't succeed, try, try again" only holds true if one stops at apply for cadetships. Getting your license, then trying over and over again to get a job overseas to build time to finally come back to Singapore? 1% chance.

Save that money and don't put yourself in a potentially quarter-million dollar hole. You already have a HDB flat to be on the hook for.

[SingaporeAirlines]

I wanna ask (and I have my own sources of information on this too) if the local Singaporean flight charter companies are hiring. I am hearing conflicting reports on this.

I am asking about ST's fleet of Gulfstreams and King Airs and Learjets. Asia Aviation Company's N50LK and the other Challenger. Other Private Gulfstreams/Bombardiers/Embraers you see on the Charlie Bays.

Chiron Flight Services. They are Thai Reg'd but they run ops from Singapore. MyJets also has some ops here. :ok:

[9M-]

Hi SingaporeAirlines,

Last i heard i do not think they are hiring. Chiron i know only have maybe 3-4 pilots flying their lear. Sometimes they do hire but maybe only if they lose a pilot. Try finding out from them.

In another note, i find the tiger airways cadet scheme not a bad avenue if there are guys out there who do not mind self sponsoring. Anyone applied for this scheme already who wants to shed some light? Would greatly help. Thanks.

[9M-]

Mynameisjon,

I do not totally agree with what you said. Although the risk is great for self sponsored pilots, it really depends on how passionate and persistent one wants to be a pilot. You have many guys out there who got their own licence and then begin to grumble about how they couldn't find a job.
Some gave up…some do not.

Some will try and find other aviation related job to upgrade their knowledge and wait for opportunities while surviving. I personally find this grp of guys the deserving ones who should be offered a job but it is always not a fair playing field in society.

I pity them and in the mean time also am very proud of them. I am one of those who didnt give up while upgrading myself. So that is why i want to help whoever i can and hopefully, that you, will make it in the future.

[rotatejunkie]

Aspiring pilots.
Wake up n smell the flowers. They don't have to be roses.

The cadetships aren't the only way into a fulfilling and rewarding career in aviation. Research and do your homework, go overseas for your flight education.
If you already have foreign licences, pack your bags, go to your neighbouring countries to bang on doors and hard-sell yourself.
Nobody said you had to only work in Singapore to be happy.
Having the pilots licence is a visa to apply for jobs elsewhere.
Also--- Do you have to be in a shiny jet at your first step in aviation?

Harden up princesses. Have a cement pill.

Start from the bottom. Then maybe after some small aircraft flying job will you appreciate that theres nothing wrong with starting from the bottom, and where hand flying is real flying, not jumping in and connecting autopilot at 700feet until minimums.
Unless that is what you want from the start, seriously, theres more to aviation just "flying the big jets". Do some soul searching--- why are you a pilot? For the $? Prestige? Passion?
If $$$ is all you are looking for, seriously, pilots earn a fraction of what doctors, lawyers, bankers, accountants etc earn in a fortnight. :cool:

[mynameisjon]

@rotatejunkie - low hour pilot = turned away for work visa any where in the world. except indonesia where you have the grease the wheels.

And don't suggest Susi Air. Flying with them is tantamount to suicide these days.

Honestly stop asking people to waste money on air tickets to knock on doors overseas when the chance is 1%.

Almost every country in the world no longer considers pilots "skilled immigrants", and to even qualify for work visas, you need to have thousands of hours.

I've seen plenty of guys fly to Jakarta to look for jobs, only to hear "sorry no foreign pilots" or "we'll get back to you".

[rotatejunkie]

@jon
What a typical Singaporean Spoilt brat-on-a-silver-platter attitude. Have you contributed anything constructive?

Isn't 1% a good enough reason to chase the dream?
How much are Tiger n Jetstar tix to Jakarta these days? Conservatively $100 return? Maybe stay in a hotel a nite or two. Transport included, maybe spend a total of $500 for a shot at the dream?
Has ANYONE come down to knock on doors humbly requesting information on recruitment?
Well I have. I have a jet job in line. Because I did go the extra mile.
Read the facts about SusiAir, don't go about yakking off on your amateur mouth.
So unless you are supporting 9M-'s thread, i suggest you tone it down or be more encouraging to the rest of the SG-wannabes.

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."

There are so many guys I have heard of knocking on doors, and it worked out for them (heavy jet). They are from different countries and no where as near as SG.
Two days ago, i spoke to a pilot with $&@%. Before coming to Jakarta, he has a turbo prop TR out of his own pocket, and he is fresh out of flight school. Two months ago turned up in Jakarta, knocked on doors, and on the spot got hired as they needed 3 crews. True story

"Its made from real plastic!"

[bolueeleh]

@9M

for me personally i tried everything in SGP from cadetship in SIA then FI in SYFC then direct FO application in LCC to lastly cadetship in LCC,

i know some of the ppl in those companies by referrals but still no joy (those referrals are mostly becoz of ex airforce connections, and yes, dont be naive, sgp flying circuit are dominated by ex airforce guys, i.e. chief pilot of so and so company are ex - SQN comdrs of so and so, thus they will pull in ex pilots of so and so SQN)

lastly can you PM me your seminar details? I wouldnt mind flying back just to meet ppl of same background and chit chat.

to the green eyed youngster out there reading this, 2 words - good degree
preferably good degree in physics, maths or science, SIA's mantra :ok:

[bolueeleh]

@500 above

r u local? from wat little i knew, the startup of starship1 was done by pilots from stateside.

[9M-]

rotatejunkie,

Nicely said. I have to agree on most of your points. Although one needs to be realistic, being positive you already won half the battle.

It is human nature to always look at the negative side of things. There are plenty of success stories but no one likes to mention them. Ever heard of a low hour guy who just graduated, slot his resume at the office door because it was closed when he went down. Got a call not long for a 320 job.

Anything is possible, one just have to firstly be Positive, Willing to do anything for the dream and lastly try to source for the best path towards the goal.

Cheers!

[9M-]

bolueeleh,

Email me at: [email protected] and i will send you the details.

[mynameisjon]

@rotatejunkie, you can do all the name calling you want, but I'm not going to change my tune here just because you're too immature to have a proper debate without resorting to insults.

First off, I have a jet job. I went that extra mile. For me everything fell into place easily. I met the right people at the right time and was in the right places.

I also recognise the changes afloat in Indonesia, as well as that I'm extremely lucky to have what I have. I am that 1% I was talking about. In all honesty, I probably didn't even work half as hard as the next guy I beat for the job.

Not everyone is going to be lucky.

You talk about neighbouring countries with jobs?

Malaysia has protectionist laws for their pilots.
Indonesia.. Well I'll talk about that later.

Further out? Don't even dream about it.

If you got to ST Aerospace, MAYBE you get a flight instructor job once you're done. If you're okay with that, good on you. Make sure you get that CAAS license and NOT a CASA one.

Massey University? Do they STILL advertise than MOU with CAAS? No longer valid. Well at least you get a degree out of it. Maybe you can be a lecturer.

FAA? You will NEVER get a job in the US. You can try the great white north, it's only a 20 question conversion and then a float endorsement. Of course then again, it's become increasingly harder for those operators to get your the required work visas.

JAA? You'll have a really nice license, but you'll be in a bigger hole than everyone else. Europe has no jobs for non-EU pilots, so look elsewhere.

Well there's always Africa.

About Indonesia (the last stand of the foreign pilots)

I know the facts about Susi Air. I have a friend in Susi air, so why don't you take your attitude and shove it? As corrupt as the DGCA is in Indonesia, when they consider suspending an operator, it says something. You can blame the weather all you want, but flt ops dispatched the aircraft and the crew made the decision to go. It says something about company culture there.

1% good enough to plonk down almost 200k on a piece of paper that will not get you a job anywhere outside of a cockpit? No it's not. Not in Singapore when you don't have unemployment benefits.

200k in the whole is not a fun place to be. Bankruptcy is easy, but for most kids, their parents foot the bill. I don't think 1% chances are worth risking my parents retirement over.

Stop saying that you know people who went over and got jobs without showing the other side of the coin.

Look at India. It's precisely the "1%" chance that destroyed their industry and their workforce. No chance of a job, but people left and right saying "go for it. passion is all you need". Being part of the problem? Me? No. It's your "1% chance go for it" mentality that's the problem.

I would LOVE to say that if you keep at it long enough you'll land a job, but 99 out of 100 times you won't.

Turboprop jobs in Jakarta will disappear in a month or two once the recruitment agencies sign deals to exclusively recruit. Same thing happened for A320 and B737 jobs. Last year you could fly down here and hand them your resume and you'd get a call. No longer. Unless you have another 40k USD in your pocket, it's not going to happen.

I've been in your corner, rooting for the little guy to get their jobs, but the real world beckons.

Don't tell people to spend their parents hard earned money, or take out that 5% loan for a license. It is NOT worth it (unless you manage to convince SFC to let you in as a self-sponsored candidate). That is what I'm saying.

Get a degree, apply for a cadetship. If it doesn't work out, you tried. You can always get your PPL and on your own time when you've got a job that pays the bills.

[sq906]

Gents,

What a great thread to start..
Anyway,I'm your standard Malay uncle number 2..lol same story, SIA reject, did license in Oz, spent 1 yr looking and trying for that airline job..gave up, went into GA flying in Indonesia..still here after 3.5 years. Goal is still to be a pilot for an airline.

Would be great to attend the talk. However won't I won't be able to attend the one in August, maybe the next one in the near future?

[overmars]

sq906, welcome to the great discussion/debate. Just don't go down the same road as Malay Uncle Nombor 1 and end up getting banned...

[9M-]

Hi sq906,

Nice to hear from you. Care to share a little more on what type of GA you flying in Indonesia?

Regarding the talk would be nice to have you join us in the future. Could you email me so that i can update you for the next session. Cheers!

[slayerdude]

9M....... Another good job here in encouraging potential flyers..... Am really amazed at the dedication you have to the craft......keep up the good work here and at "dream of flight"..... Happy landings

P/s... Did you know the kid who crashed a few weeks ago in Johor??? Any post mortem on reasons for crash????

[rotatejunkie]

Wannabes,
Dont let negative suggestions deter you from realising your full potential.
Unlike someone who's been lucky all the way through his job placement, if you dont try, you wont know until you do.
Don't spend away your folks' nestegg. Don't be ignorant, naive nor stupid. If you can afford it, go for it. "Be realistic, be practical." well my hairy beanbag to that.
I will not allow myself to get old and wrinkly and imagine what could have been.
I spent my 20s and early 30s earning for flight school fees. Didnt use daddy's $. I hav'nt looked back since.
Everytime I jump in the cockpit, I feel exactly where I belong.
Did i suggest everyone who came to Indonesia, knocked on doors and left with a job? Every industry has a window of opportunity. Who cares about India? They screwed it up big time from over expansion. A case of too much too soon.

Jon, You're quite a sourpuss aye? Now that you're in the shiny jet, you're discouraging others to follow the path?
"My friend this, my friend that". Hey muppet, Ive been in Indonesia for 2yrs, somehow being the insider trumps your hearsay.
Every time a flight is good to go, it is the PIC's final decision to depart or not. Having missionitis WILL kill you. The SusiAir pilots have pireps, weather reports as well as just plain and simple judgement to decide.
Again, don't spread rumours about facts you seem to know.
Right Jon, get out of the limelight please.

If all you can think of is getting into a shiny jet at first step and if you dont make it, you only have yourself to blame for not lowering your expectations a little.
I have actual 'friends' in Sriwijaya(B737), LionAir(B737), WingsAir(ATR72), Merpati(MA60 & TwinOtter), Batavia(B737), AirAsia(A320),SusiAir(Caravan &PA180Avanti), --- these guys all joined with zero commercial hours.

"Living the dream.". :cool:

[9M-]

Hi slayerdude,

Thanks just trying to do my part. It is a sad case for Samuel and our condolences to him and family.

I do not know him and also have no idea on the investigation outcome. However as there are no flight recorder nor voice, it is really hard to judge what actually happened. My only suggestion is to fly safe and always be prepared for the worst case scenarios and make sure as a pilot you have the foresight and skill to overcome it.

[sq906]

hi there everyone,

thanks for the warm welcome to this forum, never really participated in pprune till i saw this thread..i too wanna help our fellow singaporeans..

basically started out on the caravan, which in my opinion was a good first job great experience, lots of manual flying..met lots of people from diff. walks of life, flew into some short funky strips..had e chance to stay in a mining camp..
cut the story short, few years down e road, got the chance to move on to the avanti.

i still yearn to get a jet job asap as age is catching up..its frustrating at times, seeing lots of my friends from overseas get employed by their local carriers.

overmars:- your advice has been well noted..cheers
9M:- yup will mail you after my hari raya celebrations...

keep this thread going guys!

cheers
sq906

[9M-]

Thanks sq906 that is an interesting career path you have there. Would be nice to have you join us and share your experiences. Anyway Salamat Hari Raya to all Celebrating !~ Take care for now.

[Macarto]

Hi 9M-

Great to see that you have started a thread for aspiring pilots like me. I didn't make it for Jetstar LCC but am now trying out for Tiger LCC.

Cheers,
Mark

[FurtherMathematics]

yup tiger airways is now recruiting cadet pilots thru the st aerospace academy website.

good luck macarto. btw in your opinion, which is better, the tiger airways cadetship or jetstar asia's?

[eerie]

SQ got banned? Is it a permanent banned from the forum?

[9M-]

Macarto - Good luck ok. Let me know if you need any help.

FurtherMathematics - If i am not wrong Tiger Airways cadet scheme is using the MPL program whereas Jetstar uses the traditional Program. In terms of which is better, it really depends, but in my opinion, which ever gives you a job at the end is the best one :ok:

[dl_88]

hey guys, how is the industry looking now for recruitment?

[Macarto]

@furthermathematics both opportunities are equally good! We don't really have a say when it comes to choices here in Singapore don't we? =)

[9M-]

dl_88,

I believe the industry have slowed down as you might already have heard through SQ voluntary scheme for the pilots. However i am sure the market will pick up maybe next year onwards. It is always a supply and demand equation.

Anymore aspiring pilots out there? This thread is set up for you so please come and voice out so we can all learn. :ok:

[dl_88]

Yeah i have heard about the slowdown. Hoping that it would get better before i get back.

The supply & demand equation is always there, but the main question, does the supply actually meets the requirement of the demand.

I don't know if this is the trend that we will be seeing in the future. That holding a PPL is the most advantageous. In Aus at the moment, Virgin Australia has just closed applications for cadetship (ATR 72 with Sky west) and ONLY PPL holders & below need apply.

[Macarto]

Hi guys, I'm not sure if this is true but CAE Oxford Aviation Academy has cadets that went on to Air Asia Indonesia & Qatar. CAE Academy host many foreign cadets and they have a pilot provisioning programme for their cadets, not sure if it is a good avenue and opportunity for aspiring pilots?

Would definitely love to hear EX CAE cadets share their experience.

[dl_88]

@macarto, wouldn't the cadets first need to meet the residency requirements of the airlines? at least that would be first on the req list or so i think.:confused:

[mynameisjon]

rotatemuppet, your use of muppet leads me to think that you're probably from the UK, so the question is, what relevance do you have in this thread for Singaporeans?

If you're Singaporean, then disregard.

Your constant need to resort to namecalling also suggests a certain level of immaturity. Then again this forum is full of it. Pilots are a bitchy bunch.

You might think you're some insider with friends in all those airlines, but remember this (and deny it all you want. i don't care. this is the internet): you and your jolly bunch PAID for your seat. Mushrooms are kept in the dark and fed sh*t.

And about SusiAir, I say this: PIC has the final go/no-go say. Is the wannabe the PIC? So keep telling me I'm spouting rubbish. The death toll is the only proof I need to back up what I've said. Missionitis is a contagious.

I have nothing further to add other than my "caveat emptor".

[flying.monkeyz]

Nextant Aerospace has landed a bulk order from Asia Pacific Jets of Singapore for 10 of its Nextant 400XT (http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/jets/beyond-beechjet) bizjets, a remanufactured version of the Beechjet 400.


Nextant said it will deliver the airplanes over a period of three years, with some outfitted as air ambulances and others as VIP transports. Asia Pacific Jets also will serve as a sales agent in Asia for the 400XT, and has announced a partnership with Hong Kong-based AirMed Asia, a subsidiary of AirMed International, for the sale of medevac-configured jets.


The first two 400XTs will reach Singapore by the end of the year, a timeframe that is aligned with the opening of a new Singapore base Asia Pacific Jets and AirMed Asia are launching. As part of their agreement, AirMed Asia will handle maintenance and warranty support for Nextant Aerospace in the region.


To create the FAA-certified 400XT, Nextant starts with a Beechjet 400A/XP airframe and adds new Williams FJ44-3AP turbofan engines, Rockwell Collins Pro Line 21 integrated avionics, improved cabin electronics including high-speed wireless Internet service, and completely rebuilt interiors. The resulting aircraft has a 2,005 nautical mile range, cruise speed of 460 knots and a price of around $4 million.


Nextant Sells 10 Airplanes in Asia | Flying Magazine (http://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/jets/nextant-sells-10-airplanes-asia)



This may post as career opportunities for some here in Sg.

[SingaporeAirlines]

Hi All,

I am back. Sorry for the hiatus. Mods banned me temporarily because of my apparently "racist" postings.

So what's the latest news on the block :cool:

[Stallone]

:ok: welcome back

[eerie]

Welcome back

[flying.monkeyz]

SINGAPORE - After almost a decade of trying and failing to set up a Singapore-based budget carrier, AirAsia is planning to give it another go.


Its new Singapore CEO Logan Velaitham has confirmed that Asia's largest budget airline group is preparing to apply for a Singapore Air Operator's Certificate (AOC), effectively enabling it to set up a Singapore-based airline.



He said that as a precursor to the application, AirAsia has made a preliminary presentation to the Ministry of Transport to "demonstrate" AirAsia's commitment and contribution to Singapore.


He would not say when the actual AOC application would be made.


"Singapore is critical for us and we have been delivering the numbers," he said. "Even without an AOC, our arrivals, tourist numbers and contribution to the Singapore economy have been growing rapidly.

Imagine what we could do if we have a Singapore-based carrier?"

AirAsia is believed to have applied for a Singapore AOC several times in the past eight years; the last time was in December 2010. But in a one-sentence response late yesterday evening, a Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore (CAAS) spokesman said the regulator "has not received any formal AOC application from AirAsia".


But having a carrier based out of one of Asia's biggest hub airports would figuratively connect the dots to complete AirAsia founder Tony Fernandes's ambition to establish a pan-Asean carrier group. The now Jakarta-based Mr Fernandes already oversees a thriving airline group headquartered in Malaysia, but with associates in Thailand, Indonesia, the Philippines and Japan.


"We are blessed to be in Asean," Mr Fernandes told BT recently. "It's a market that some people ignore, which plays to our advantage. People are fixated on China and India. There are 690 million people here. I see the growth market as Asean as a whole - not an Indonesia, not a Thailand.


"Imagine if all 690 million were flying within Asean for their holidays. That's what happened in Europe and that's my goal, and that's why I shifted to Jakarta.


"Fifty per cent of our routes in Asean have been never done before. Obviously, China and India will grow but these are markets that we can only scratch. But Asean will be one big market - that's why I am such a big advocate."


Mr Logan is confident that AirAsia will finally land its much coveted Singapore AOC.

"Perhaps we did not have the numbers to back up our previous application," he said. "But things have changed. Last year alone, we flew 3.52 million passengers into Changi. We operate 277 flights here, employ over 80 people and enjoy a load factor of around 80 per cent on our Singapore services. Over the last eight years, we have brought 10 million travellers to Singapore. "

He revealed that AirAsia's Changi operation also provides a significant volume of feeds to the networks of AirAsia and AirAsia X through Kuala Lumpur to destinations like Australia, the Indian sub- continent and elsewhere.


Mr Logan added that AirAsia had also "met all the key performance indicators" of Changi Airport Group to qualify for the airport operator's various growth incentives targeted at airlines operating here.


"We value Singapore, and I would like to think Changi values us," added the 41-year-old Malaysian who has lived here since 1988 and holds Singapore permanent residency.


Under existing rules, a Singapore AirAsia would need to be 51 per cent held by Singaporean entities, with Malaysia's AirAsia Bhd controlling the remaining 49 per cent stake. The airline is evaluating various potential Singapore partners.


"Our brand strategy is to be an Asean airline, with cross-border inter-operability, just like in Europe - which is why Mr Fernandes relocated to Indonesia," he said. "This would enable us to redeploy resources, personnel and assets wherever and whenever necessary. Our pan- Asean vision will not be complete without this (Singapore) AOC."


Mr Logan conceded that his recent promotion to CEO of the Singapore operation was a precursor to the AOC application.


"My job is to keep pushing our growth trajectory in Singapore, while also doing the groundwork and liaising with the decision-makers here."


A Singapore AOC could see many of the airline's new jets being based here. AirAsia hit the headlines in June last year when it placed a record order for 200 new A320s at the Paris Air Show. It currently has 105 planes in its fleet.

A new airline would also boost budget airline passenger numbers at Changi, where the 13 low-cost carriers currently already account for almost 30 per cent of total traffic.

Relax - AirAsia seeks a home base in Singapore (http://www.relax.com.sg/relax/news/1282596/AirAsia_seeks_a_home_base_in_Singapore.html)

Let's hope this becomes a reality...

[9M-]

flying.monkeyz,

Nice post. Lets hope they dont start hiring only malaysian FOs. Then will be good for our pilot pool.

[flying.monkeyz]

When things start to pick up, I doubt there's enough qualified Singaporeans to be shared between SQ / MI / SQC / 3K / TR / AirAsia Singapore. Hiring of Malaysian FO is just a matter of time.

[Stallone]

hmm, Air Asia is really coming to set up base in SG?

CAAS denied it though, u shared it a few months back

http://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/484822-airasia-start-singapore-hub-soon-widening-its-network.html

hope they'll be successful this time round

[dl_88]

Hey guys, saw this on the Aus forums.

Aviation Business: Griffith University signs cadet training deal with Cathay Pacific (http://www.aviationbusiness.com.au/news/griffith-university-signs-cadet-training-deal-with-cathay-pacific)

Might be an avenue further afield if you guys decide to do a degree, or not successful in finding a job in SG.

[yannisoar]

dl_88 - Thanks for sharing this! I went to the Griffith website and read more about this and found out that it is only for domestic students and not international. Do correct me if I'm wrong

[dl_88]

oh, just saw it, my bad then. Disregard the post then:O

[yannisoar]

its good information anyway dl_88 :ok: thanks once again!

[SingaporeAirlines]

Just another perspective. If Singaporeans are all kpkbing that all these foreigners are invading our cockpits, just think how the Honkeys feel when all these ang mohs from australia (where the honkeys will probably get discriminated themselves left right up down center) are now coming into CX cockpits by the droves.

In my ban from these forums I was thinking about the India peoples' arguements that cockpits should be free from nationality bickering and it should be open for all people with talent.

Point though is that people who say this, their countries themselves don't follow this policy and the same Australians and Indians who complain that they should be red carpet entryed into SG/HK Cockpits complain like hell when a foreigner pilot comes into their country. Trust me, I started my career in NZ.

In any case, the world makes it seem as if Singaporeans are the world's most unqualified godforsaken pilots. If countries like Botswana, Kenya and Ethiopia put their nationals first and have enough Pilots amongst their own countrymen, I highly fking doubt Singapore, being the world's richest country now, does not!

[ElitePilot]

Singaporeairlines it sound's as if you have some sort of grudge against Australian/Indians?
I don't think any expat pilot feels they deserve a job or as you say should get red carpet treatment or maybe you have come across a few bad eggs i'd be interested to hear?
And on you're next point surely it's more a case of business/commercial sense. Airlines tend to recruit on a reactionary basis they get a sudden shortfall of pilots and hence need to get people online as quick as possible. I'm not sure on the stats on how many Singaporeans there are type rated but across the world the is a surplus to requirement so is why they are forced to look further afield.
I think things are looking up with the cadetships starting with schools recruiting for the likes of Jetstar and Tiger etc but again its a self sponsored route with all the risks.

[By George]

Singaporeairlines, I spent 10 years as an ex-pat Captain with SQ, never once made to feel 'unwelcome'. I have a lot of time for the locals, great bunch of guys. I understand your bitterness, I never understood why the local Airline was so hard on it's own Citizens. However your aggressive attitude is possibly the reason you didn't get in. SQ are looking for people who are going to work well together as a team. They know what they want and I can see why you were rejected. I still wish you well, I like your spirit.

[9M-]

Hello guys,

Firstly thanks for the great response in this thread which could help many aspiring pilots. However lets not drift away from what this thread was supposed to do…share our experiences and not wasting time on other unrelated issues.

One of the most important attribute of being a pilot and let me say this loudly is to respect people from different nationalities. We work in a multi-cultural environment and if we cant even do this simple task, how are we going to be happy in a tight flight deck for 10 hours or even the rest of our career?

Thank about it.

[ElitePilot]

By George agree fully.

9M-.. Whats it like for aspiring Singaporeans to get financing for flight training?
Looks like things are getting moving with Staero and with OAA/CAE's new training center but will there be much uptake for locals be able to fund the schemes?

[9M-]

ElitePilot,

Last i know bank do give out study loan to maybe 1/3 or 2/3 of the total cost. Can check with them on this.

[rotatejunkie]

I had a study loan that was pegged to my guarantor's pay package.
So pick a rich uncle or aunt or sibling and get the maximum.
I was with DBS.

[SingaporeAirlines]

I am personally against the Tiger and Jetstar schemes for the greater good. Sure you might get a LCC Pilot job but you paying 200K SGD for the course...how does that reflect on management - that wannabe pilots will pay an arm and leg just to get into the RHS?

As for foreigners in Aviation, if you think about it from a purely Labour and Economics perspective, they cause a lot of structural unemployment.

Even in India, if they got rid of all these white pilots, Indian first officers on the line can get promoted and all these unemployed CPL 250s can get into the system and get the cogwheels turned and ease the bottleneck.

Yet they seem to still hire expats for AI Express, Jet Airways etc...

Same goes for Malaysia too.

So yes, we do need to appreciate Multiculturalism, Racial harmony and all that jazz but remember, when you choose to extend that guy's contract, you are very very directly depriving another guy of your own country a chance and choking the natural flow of the labor process.

_______________________________________

Back on topic, I feel the following are musts for a long and happy aviation career.

1.) Get a degree. Every tom, dick and harry from the 3rd world nations has one and if you as a Singaporean don't have one, it is not looked upon well. That being said, if you DO have a degree, it is valued way above these other Indian/Malaysian/Pinoy degrees.

2.) Don't get an Aviation degree. I did one but apart from that I had a degree from NUS in Applied Mathematics. I started off in Financial Services and I still do Consulting and Private Stock and Securities trading in my free time. It can be VERY financially rewarding.

3.) Reason why I am due for Captain at age 35: Degree and ability to show my Chief Pilot I have a good understanding of business. This is key in the future. I have another max. 30 years of flying in my life available. If I make Captain now, just imagine how much potential that holds for all of you people.

(Also note I got rejected by SIA)

4.) NETWORK! Hang around the airport. Work in the aviation line. You don't have to be a Pilot at first. If you hold a degree, you can go into Consultancy etc...My Malay nephew is a Management Associate with Lufthansa - they hired him straight out of NTU Aerospace Engineering (Upper 2nd Hons). Now he's building up some hours to go onto Susi Air's Piaggio fleet and at the same time do some management level work for them.

5.) Don't sell out and bring our Aviation Industry to what it is in India.

Happy Landings :ok:

[rotatejunkie]

Speaking of opportunities for Sporeans:-
Its quite puzzling that Scoot would have its entire flight deck all of expats, or a vast majority of.

Does anyone know of the real reason why a subsidiary of SIA would hire as such, even though the parent company had put out a VNPL policy?

[FlyingChipmunk]

My dearest SingaporeAirlines (newly opened Petaluma Riesling 2009, all for me while I type this shiite),

S'pore Air, you're a knob and a dropkick.
And in my Aussie slang, that means in your Singaporean morphed english: ******

I can say alot more, but i need to fly in the arvo, so to get to the point:

1. Tiger FOs in Sg get paid NO LESS THAN: S$135-45k /yr, Cpts S$220-250/yr, so paying S$180k for ab-initio to a job to fly with me in TR seems like a fantastic invesment for a parent....if my daughter or son succeeds......don't you think?

2. Degree NOT Required:I RECENTLY ( 9 years ago- my first ab-initio C152 flight!!) started my aviation career with only 'O' levels and there is NO real need to show your Chief Pilot of your PERCEIVED ability to run a business. He only needs to know that you are not ARROGANT like yourself and you WILL follow SOPs and respect your cabin crew and colleagues.
l
3. Singapore does NOT have enough DEPTH of trainee pilots like yourself, like you have proven, to fill the RHS for an eventual move to MY SEAT!! EVERYBODY can be an FO, but not everyone can become a GOOD Captain, so GOD forbid, you must NEVER be my Captain, which you cannot, thank goodness.

4. I am now sponsored by my airline to complete my aviation degree but I still DO NOT see any worth in an academic piece of paper. So I remain a GCE O Level Captain in a major airline at Changi NOT wondering anymore why
Singapore Airlines cannot find suitable cadets to fit their requirements.

5.....and if your'e
are still wondering, yes, I'm a CAAS approved training captain`

[ballistix71]

Speaking of opportunities for Sporeans:-
Its quite puzzling that Scoot would have its entire flight deck all of expats, or a vast majority of.

Does anyone know of the real reason why a subsidiary of SIA would hire as such, even though the parent company had put out a VNPL policy?

Rotatejunkie: It is a question the SO, FO & SFOs don't know the answer to either I believe. I know it pissed a lot of them off when they had the meeting and were told about the VNPL.



Guys if you want a career in aviation there is only one option...Work Hard.

If you are lucky, :D you will land a cadetship somewhere and an airline will pay for your training. If your not, you will have to pay for it yourself :eek:. This is just like everyone else who didn't get a cadetship around the world. Think of your licence like an expensive university degree, or an overseas degree (I know a lot of SG guys and girls study abroad) to put it into perspective. Biggest thing to take on board is that you are investing it in yourself to gain a skill set, so keep the long term in mind if this is where you want to work.

There are lot of options out there for training around the world, so shop around and see what you can get. $200K SG has been battered around and unfortunately that is the sort of numbers you will need to look at. A CPL with a ME/CIR to sigapore licencing standards will set you back around $100-$110K AU ($140K-ish SG) or there abouts in Australia, before you look at things like accommodation, visa and licence applications etc etc.

Training options are also expanding here in SG so take a look at STAA & Oxford to see how they compare. These organisations will make it easier as you will be issued with a SG licence and not have to convert. Singapore's biggest hurdle is you need to train outside of SG as the airspace is so limited.

Anyone can be a pilot, hell mankind sent monkeys and dogs into space for gods sake. It is going to take dedication and hard work to get the job you want, in the location you want. You need to stick at it for the long term to get there. Took me 16 years from my first flight to the right seat of a A320, proves persistence pays off in the end.

[flying.monkeyz]

Rotatejunkie: It is a question the SO, FO & SFOs don't know the answer to either I believe. I know it pissed a lot of them off when they had the meeting and were told about the VNPL.


I think the 50 odd that went to QR and BR are far better off than going to Scoot if given the opportunity.

[izzydeezy]

its probably gonna be a mountain to climb for a Malaysian JAA ATPL holder(im Singaporean) to find a job. im wondering what are the best options?

thanks!

[320wonder]

izzy,

you can try AirAsia.... no harm trying. if they need you, they'll take you.

[flying.monkeyz]

Unless you're a Captain, DCA / Malaysian immigration doesn't allow non-Malaysian to be FO.

[izzydeezy]

yeah thats right :( how about Indonesia?

[9M-]

Hi izzydeezy,

Send me an email at: [email protected] so that we can have a meet up during our next talk session if you are interested. You can also visit our website for more information. Dream Of Flight (http://www.dreamofflight.org)

Cheers!

[squarecrow]

Singaporeairlines should be careful what you write,
Take note of your comment all these WHITE Pilots and My MALAY Nephew. etc etc,

That alone shows you to be racist, No I didnt acuse you but take note of what you write. Any professional would write the FOREIGN pilots in Whichever country you are talking about and refer to myself As the Countryman you are from or is Singapore suffering from segregation?.

Sorry if you think you are been done out of a Job, I dont work there by the way. Maybe you could be more constructive and take this up with your Government rather than post on here, dont think you will achieve much doing what you do. Glad I dont have to fly with you too, met too many of your type.

[ballistix71]

Hey izzy, have heard that Indonesia is indeed starting to look outside of it's borders for pilots. Is anyone else able to confirm this for the guys looking?

With the move of the Air Asia boss to Indonesia, I would suggest that this may be the case in the near future for 'parts' of AA as well perhaps. Would be worth a look into either way.

[flying.monkeyz]

Indonesia has always look outside for pilots as the local pool is simply insufficient to satisfy demands. The only thing people gotta be prepared for is to pay for own type rating, and low pay for low rank pilots.

[320wonder]

there are plenty of indonesian pilots working outside of indonesia... i think their main problem is keeping them in indonesia.

[9M-]

Hi All,

To further promote aviation, Dream of Flight is coming up with a Charity Joy Flight Event on the: 23 Sept 2012 (Sun) Morning, Senai Airport Johor.

For a small contribution, you, your friends and family members can experience a 30 mins flight on a 4 seater piper. The fund collected will give the next less privileged youth a chance to experience the same joy that you did.

So do not hesitate, for more information visit: Dream Of Flight (http://www.dreamofflight.org) now!

[Nimas]

9M. Nice to see this thread started. :D

It is definitely not easy to want to choose flying as a career if you did not go through the SAF/SQ route.

Hope to see your site as a truly for Singaporeans and does not degenerate into for profit referral system ;)

[9M-]

Hi Nimas,

Nice waypoint nick you have of surabaya. Anyway thanks for your support and you can rest assure Dream of Flight is a non profit organization.

With 3 objectives: To Give - joy flight to the less privileged, To Share - our aviation knowledge and To Inspire - future aviators.

Cheers! :ok:

[flying.monkeyz]

Regardless of nationality (hopefully). :ok:

[dl_88]

hey guys, quick question.

Does having too many hours on a PPL have an adverse impact on chances for cadetship?

[flying.monkeyz]

Does having too many hours on a PPL have an adverse impact on chances for cadetship?

Not really... it truly boils down to the interview.

[dl_88]

whew! thanks for the reply!

[SFC172N]

Just wondering, anyone going for tiger opening as someone mentioned ? Wondering if they are really hiring or just luring people for their internal cpl?
And any news on jetstar ?

[9M-]

I think Tiger is hiring….no harm trying for those interested in the scheme with collaboration with STAA.

[AAC]

Asia Aviation Company is currently looking for local Singaporean pilots.
Suggest you email to [email protected] looking to fill positions on LR60, CL605's and Global 5000.

Regards

AAC

[9M-]

Thanks AAC. :)

[tatsit]

AAC, does your company provide cadetship, or looking for trained pilots?

[Droste]

Unless you're a Captain, DCA / Malaysian immigration doesn't allow non-Malaysian to be FO.
Half correct! The underline sentence only apply to those without jet-time or type-rated guys.

In another words, without jet-time or type-rated hours, DCA/Malaysian Immigration will NOT accept them to be First/Second Officer.

Foreigners with jet or type-rated hours are still welcome to apply. To get priority in the interview, applicant needs some sort of connection.

I heard from one Chinese Tan-Sri who he has helped to pull in a Singaporean into Firefly! I have came across many real-life stories about pulling connection.

I have been through many aviation gatherings both locally and overseas and I've met all kind of people. Especially, in Asia, one common phenomenon I discovered is, "ang-moh" has no power in doing connection, and they only know how to talk "cock" and talk "big"!

Believe me or not, it is not what you know, but who you know.

[9M-]

Hi,

So anyone out there who are currently doing their cadetship with Tiger, Jetstar, or any local carrier care to share with us your progress, route etc?

Just so at least we have a clearer picture of the market currently with regard to ab initio.

Thanks!

[Jo 1968]

Does anyone know anything about a cadet scheme for Qatar Airways in Singapore?