Aeronautical Engineering Degree- What's it like? [Archive]

Pielander

13th Apr 2001, 15:52

G-BPEC

I did Aero at Loughborough, and I'm sad to say that if I'd known what it was going to be like (especially the final year) then I don't think I could have faced it. On the other hand, it's a worthwhile course if ever there was one. If you're serious about having a good degree, then it's definitely one worth considering.

It teaches you (or rather makes youu teach yourself) a bit about every aspect of planes apart from flying them. It's also more engineering than aeroplanes. Nearly all of the first year is identical to the mech-eng course.

Jude: I suppose you'd be familiar with Jenks then? (You know who I mean :))

Pie

JT8

13th Apr 2001, 15:52

Final year Aero at Loughborough.

I too chose this degree being mad about planes - not a good choice. Too hard, too much work, and often very boring. I have to admit when choosing modules later in the degree, and final year project etc. things can get more interesting. The negative side is, by that time the quantity of work is often so great you do not get a chance to sit back and enjoy what you're learning. What you do learn will not directly benefit you during pilot training (although it may help you with the tech writtens).

Having said that, its an extremely respected course because industry understands its tough, so job prospects are very good (not just within the engineering industry).

Given the chance would I choose it again?- Probably not!! Go to uni, do a degree that you know you will really enjoy. Dont miss out on university if you have the opportunity.

Good luck,
JT8 :)

Hey Pie! jenks!! :) he's still here dammit!!

[This message has been edited by JT8 (edited 13 April 2001).]

[This message has been edited by JT8 (edited 13 April 2001).]

G-BPEC

13th Apr 2001, 16:54

Thanks for all the replies.

It sounds quite challenging, even boring, but one I think worth considering, but what degrees would be best for flying, which ones would the airlines want?
http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/confused.gif
BPEC

Pielander

13th Apr 2001, 17:35

JT8

You didn't do A/C project design did you? That'd be why you're finding it hard then! :) I was in the Odyssey 150 group last year. Check out my really weak report on stability & control. Needless to say, my efforts were concentrated mostly elsewhere.

BTW, do you know Lana & Rebekah? (if not, then they must be two more course victims).

By the way, the email address I'm using is [email protected].

G-BPEC: I don't think the airlines are all that bothered about degrees. In the case of BA, I think they'd rather you had one or were doing one, but it doesn't really matter what in. I can warn you now though, if you end up dropping out or getting less than a 2:2, then you'll have a bit of explaining to do. (If you got less than a 2:2, BA would not consider you full stop). As Jude said, it's not one to do if you're not really committed to getting the degree itself, but I can't think of anything that the airlines would prefer to aero.

Pie

[This message has been edited by Pielander (edited 13 April 2001).]

Lady Heath

13th Apr 2001, 18:42

G-BPEC

I am in my final year of Aero-eng at GLA uni. The reason I embarked upon the course was because I believed that I would be able to design and build an a/c from scratch using all the modern technology and if anything went wrong during a flight I would be able to solve it. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif NO CHANCE!!

It provides you with the ability to be trained when you go into the aviation (engineering)industry. I learned far more about a/c when I did my PPL and far more about airlines and a/c engineering during my placement at BA than in my 4 years of aero-eng!!

looking back however, there is NO other course i would rather do. To hopefully have a BENG HONS in aero-eng behind me soon will be somthing i can keep all my life and there are some things in the course that are interesting. As long as you can handle the maths and physics of it you wont have a problem. It is a course that cannot be taken lightly - if you are wanting more than a degree out of uni then choose something else - but it certianly has gotten my foot in the door of the aviation Industry as i could use it as proof that i am serious about aviation.

hope that gives you some more insight - it is a valued degree and very much worth it in the end :)

JT8

13th Apr 2001, 23:04

Pie,

...so your responsible for that Odyssey thing in the project office?!!! and yep, I do aircraft project design http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif I know Lana, although not personally...I don't think Rebekah passed the second year.

So having done the stability part I'm sure you've been one of render benders victims :)

...and the point Lady Heath makes is correct. I moan about this degree but it got me a placement with BA too, and I used that apportunity very very well as far as my future pilot prospects go.. ;)

JT8 :)

Pielander

13th Apr 2001, 23:24

JT8

If you did a year out (which I should have done!) then you must have started at the same time as me, and we must have been on the same course at the same time for 2 years. Email me & identify yourself!

Sorry to hear about Rebekah http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

I take it you don't do Gas Turbine Design then, or you wouldn't have time to PPRuNe. Shame. Good module.

Anyway, I won't talk too much - You're a busy man! I assume A/C design is due in after Easter? Cya later & good luck with BA.

Pie

BEagle

13th Apr 2001, 23:33

Did Aero Eng at QMC in the 70s. Effing difficult and didn't learn anything useful apart from how to write greek symbols quickly whilst taking endless notes; I still have nightmares about 'conformal transformation' and control theory was a total mystery. Lecturing quality absolutely dreadful - most lecturers seemed more interested in their research projects than imparting education. But at least we didn't have it as bad as the poor $ods over at 'Impossible College'!

Top tip - forget Aero Eng and do a course with plenty of impressionable babes, field trips and preferably one which is written in English. Like Geography or something which any idiot can do in between sessions in the union bar!!

Pielander

13th Apr 2001, 23:38

BEagle

:) :) :) Some things never change.

Pie

Lucifer

13th Apr 2001, 23:45

BPEC

Ask yourself what you enjoy academically and want to study to a higher level. What intrigues you and interests you, and in what do you achieve best results.

When Mr. Interviewer asks ,"so BPEC, why did you choose that degree subject," you look better stating 'X interests me greatly, and I wanted to take my studies to a higher level in university. This course gave me many module options and was a well run course at a respected university' rather than, "I did aero eng because I wanted to fly (no disrespect)." Take onboard these guys' advice and do it if it interests you because you can be a pilot with any degree (or none).

Don't consider the 'what would be best for flying' question so long as your degree is academic in nature (ie history, economics, chemistry, engineering and not BSc basket weaving). With drive and enthuiasm, and enough to say about you life and experiences you can tie in examples from any degree to meet the required qualities.

[This message has been edited by Lucifer (edited 13 April 2001).]

Noddy Staltern

14th Apr 2001, 00:08

Agree with most of the posts here. I did an aero degree because I thought it had something to do with aeroplanes. WRONG! It is 3 years of very hard applied maths. In most lectures you are writing so fast to keep up, nothing has time to go through your brain. It is not a lot of fun.

I was very envious of friends doing computer science degrees who were getting straight As with very little work while I was working my butt off to get Bs and Cs. The degree looks good on a cv when applying to an airline, but I do not think it is worth the effort. Airlines are interested in (a) total hours, (b) jet hours, (c) are you a nice bloke/lass? Find an easier course that has pretty women (any social science will do)!

Lady Heath

14th Apr 2001, 00:53

Well there are on avg 10 to 15 of us lassies in each year out of 55 folk of aero-eng at GLA and we are an attractive bunch ;)

G-BPEC

14th Apr 2001, 11:47

Aero eng does sound interesting, perhaps it would be best to "fly" with but that wasn't why I was thinking of choosing it. Let me get this straight...does it have NOTHING to do with aircraft that is even remotely relevant?

Thanks
G-BPEC

Genghis the Engineer

14th Apr 2001, 12:38

The course is all about analysing and designing aircraft, and if that is what you plan to do with your career, there's no better choice. It is also very highly regarded as one of the most demanding general engineering degrees.

It aint easy, it is often frustrating, and it frequently seems to have nothing to do with aviation. I used to go down to the local aircraft museum every month or two to remind myself what I was doing it for.

Subsequently, I've used probably 90% of my aero-degree professionally (the stuff I haven't used is mostly the more obscure maths), but I've gone into fields where it's used. Much of it is at a very different level to, say, an ATPL and most people will tend to specialise in their careers and inevitably only use a small part of it.

If you only want to be a pilot, you may want to do something less demanding and spend the rest of your time at the UAS or University gliding club. If (like me) you want to work in Aerospace, it is easily the best choice - but don't expect an easy ride.

G

SilentHandover

14th Apr 2001, 20:05

I studied Aeronautical Eng. at QMW London in the early 90's and genuinely enjoyed the course, like any education the quality of lecturing was vital to course, I guess we got lucky with the lecturers we had as all the guys who taught Aero specific courses, as opposed to basic general mathematics, dynamics, computing etc. had a genuine love for their subject which came across so strongly to us undergraduates. This passion made what could have been exceeding dull theories very interesting, all the lecturers were very approachable if you were struggling with any part of the course their door was always open to you, this is one of the most vital things, I believe, to a successful career at uni, to learn to know and admit when you need help and to go and get it from your lecturers, they are not school teachers they will not approach you if you are struggling you need to go to them and say 'I need help with blah'
The true joy to me personally of the whole course came in our final year when we were tasked with designing our own aircraft. This was when we saw what all the effort of the previous two years was for, the application of the Greek alphabet and the plugging in of numbers to vast equations to prove on paper that the aircraft you have designed from that first moment of inspiration of 'I want my aircraft to look like this' will actually perform to the specifications demanded. Standing there presenting your 'Baby', your design, to your peers and (in our case) the board of Britten Norman was an unforgettable experience, and one which I cherish to this day. what I would say about the course is that it is definitely the case of the more you put in to it the more you get out of it. I worked bloody hard for those three years, but played even harder I never missed a social occasion, held down a job to pay my way through my overly active social life and had the time of my life studying a subject that stirs deep passions inside 'me old cockles' now and every day of my life from the day when I first stood on the top floor of the short stay car park at EGKK and looked skywards and said 'Why don't the paipanes (sic.) fall out of de sky dad?'. To sum up and stop my romantic look back at a great time, I can think of no better course to study at uni if you have a real passion for aviation, just research your prospective uni/college well and be prepared to work hard for the subject you love, you will need this even more if you want to go on to have a career as a pilot. Some of my fellow graduates have gone on to fly commercially, I know of one who now flys 737's for bmi and another whole is working for what was KLMUK. Also as has already been said Aeronautical Eng is an extremely highly thought of qualification by industry and commerce the spread of employment of my college year is huge, from millionaire IT city whizz kids to me, an employee of NATS who looks forward to every day at work so that I can look out of the tower window and think 'I know exactly how that aircraft is staying up in the air', which is the question I origianlly asked my father when I was 4 years old on the roof of the carpark.
p.s. yes I am a sad old bugger but I love my life and career.

FlyFreeWbe

14th Apr 2001, 22:13

You know, this sounds really interesting. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif I was thinking about doing this but I had my doubts about what it required of me. But, what's the social life like and where do you recommend studying it?
Does anyone know how much it'll cost?

------------------
FlyFreeWbe
~WYSITWIRL

JT8

14th Apr 2001, 22:47

Social life during an aero eng degree???
You're kidding right?!!!?!! :) :)

SilentHandover

15th Apr 2001, 13:40

A social life is very easy during an Aero degree you just have to manage your time well, I managed to have a great time at uni just use your afternoons and the rare free mornings wisely, sunday afternoons are a great time to work as most people bugger off home for the weekends, just make sure you can be free on wednesday evenings.
As for places to study I chose QMW in East London, not as famous as Imperial but much more fun and with a better ratio females:males than most engineering uni's. It well positioned for getting into the 'Big Smoke' for those mega nights out as well. Negative points it's bloody expensive place to live.

G-BPEC

15th Apr 2001, 16:09

Forgive my ignorance SH, but is the QMW the same as City University, because they are doing a course there as well.

BPEC
Edited because there is no U in ignorance

[This message has been edited by G-BPEC (edited 15 April 2001).]

BEagle

15th Apr 2001, 17:43

No it isn't!! It used to be London Queen Mary College, one of the colleges of the University of London, as was Westfield (which genuinely was Babe-alonia!!) when City Poly became the totally separate London City University. QMC later amalgamated with Westfield to become 'QMW' College (pronounced, so a Welsh colleague assures me, as 'come' college in Welsh - for what he describes as sound reasons!).

I don't suppose students are as well off these days at QWMC - when I was there a student grant was about £600 p.a. and hall fees were £6 per week. Sponsored RAF cadets were on about £1200 p.a. - hence we had a pretty good time. But the calculator was only just being invented, so it was still the era of the slide-rule; computer programs meant punching out Fortran cards, leaving the work overnight and picking up the print-out the next day!! Most Aero Eng practicals consisted of a few minutes experimenting followed by hours and hours of number-crunching. It must be better now as you can probably do some real work rather than just tedious data reduction!

However, I still learned more in 2 weeks flying in a couple of old DH Doves at Cranfield doing flight-testing than I ever did in 4 years at QMC!!

[This message has been edited by BEagle (edited 15 April 2001).]

Genghis the Engineer

15th Apr 2001, 20:25

Showing your age BEagle, anybody under 40 got a week in a Jetstream.

G

BEagle

15th Apr 2001, 21:45

Unfortunately, you're right, Genghis! But I was there 5 years earlier as well learning to fly Rogers Aviation's brand-new Cessna 150s. We also had a good nose around in the College of Aeronautics hangar where there were such things as a TSR2, Boulton Paul P111, Sea Hawk, CF 100 to name but a few. The circuit was also shared with a Hunter (doing some research on runway contamination) and a Morane Saulnier Paris. When I did my flight testing, the staff were looking forward to getting 3 Jetstreams to replace the old Doves - one of which had been re-possessed from a criminal!!

[This message has been edited by BEagle (edited 15 April 2001).]

EGDR

16th Apr 2001, 02:11

In a word - dull.

- with dull aspects
- featuring dull people

------------------
Do you sshea the beast ?

Leslie

16th Apr 2001, 15:42

Did Air Transport Eng at City which was alright and set me up for ground school. Course was generally dull as were the other students but it was a tick in the box!
Tell me, why is your user name the registration of one of my B757's ?

G-BPEC

16th Apr 2001, 16:23

Leslie,

Flew on BPEC from London to Manchester in October and had the jumpseat for landing... at the time of registering I was trying to think of a username, and remembered that fantastic experience... besides, I couldn't think of anything else!

Thanks for replies
G-BPEC

splonguk

18th May 2001, 16:38

BEagle - that is quite enough out of you about us poor sods at Imperial College!! I am one of those poor sods - and regretting big time!!

I am a first year (just about to do end of year exams) and am throughly bored of my course. Like the others, I chose it hoping to learn about aeroplanes, but you are quite right, all I have learnt is how to pronounce the Greek alphabet!!!

If you want to be a pilot, this course will give you no advantage. About 3 weeks ago, I applied to BAs CEP scheme and am still waiting whether I have been invited to the pyschometric tests. Here's hoping so!!!

Question: Will it look bad at an interview with BA that I am seriously considering dropping out at the end of the academic year? How much of an advantage will having a degree give me?

Catch you later

Evo7

18th May 2001, 16:55

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">
Question: Will it look bad at an interview with BA that I am seriously considering dropping out at the end of the academic year?
</font>

It's not the end of the world, but you will have to think hard about how to put it across.

The key, I think, is to justify it in a way that shows that you are doing it for a well thought-out reason. Don't say "I quit because I didn't like it" - that looks bad. Show that you know what you want to do and that you know why the degree isn't going to help to get there. That way you can sell thigns quite differently - we all make stupid choices, and you are doing something about yours. Try and put a positive spin on what you've done while at uni, though, if you can.

Genghis the Engineer

18th May 2001, 17:24

Why not try and get a transfer to another university where they actually know what an aeroplane is?

splonguk

18th May 2001, 17:40

Not sure! I have so much going around in my head at the moment, I can't think straight.
I have exams, I have friends who want to go flat hunting for next year - but I am not sure I'll be here, and don't want to back out at the last minute. I also have the dreadful thought of what if BA reject me outright!

Besides, I not sure anywhere would seem as good after London. Also, not sure Aero is actually the right degree for me.

RVR800

18th May 2001, 19:03

One of the hardest courses at the hardest
Universities - not for the faint hearted

e.g Imperial

ickle black box

18th May 2001, 19:58

If you want a degree in Aerospace Eng, great; If you just want 3 years at uni, and a degree at the end, it'd consider other options. Engineers have to work the hardest at uni, at around 30hr's a week in lectures/tutorials! (Compared to social studies at around 8). I went to the University of Hertfordshire, and really loved my time there. Unfortunatly, I failed the degree, cos I was lazy, and spent most of my time gliding, and working to pay for the gliding. I've been able to achieve what I've wanted without the degree, but I do wish I'd got one.

splonguk

18th May 2001, 20:30

Would having a degree help my promotion in a airline, if I were to become a pilot? So many pilots nowadays seem to have managerial roles as well, are all these people degree holders, or do these positions rely totally on piloting experience etc.

15500.00

18th May 2001, 22:58

Hi there
I am in my first year doing aero at QUB. I have to be honest most of the people in my class signed up thinking it would be a real exciting degree. I have to tell you they were wrong, very very wrong and so was I! Most of the course has little and I mean little relevance to aircraft. It looks good on a CV if you want a job in aerospace. Other than that get real life experience if you can. Youll get more out of it!

splonguk

18th May 2001, 23:33

So then, is it just me or do no Aero degrees in the UK bare any relevance to aircraft! This seems utterly stupid. I don't know about what it is like at QUB, but the majority of 1st years at Imperial have considered quitting at some stage this year!

I am seriously considering contacting the RAeS and asking/complaining about this. Surely a more aircraft orientated would:
1) Give people who want to be Aero engineers more useful experience

2) Keep them interested!

It seems that the unis are more interested in providing degrees that will resort in 100% employment at the end - i.e because they are so mathematical that the City want you to work for them!! This is not what an engineering degree should provide.

Give me your thoughts, it would be good to talk to the RAeS and be able to say that it is not just Imperial that feel like this!

Jason2000

19th May 2001, 02:20

Hello!!!

I am in my first year of Aeromechanical Systems Engineering at Cranfield University. There isn't as much 'plane-talk' as most of use would like (well infact, we haven't even seen anything as such-just a few planes in the hangers, and a few helicopters landing on the field). We have been assured that aviation will form some of this degree though!

The first year runs a par with the mechanical engineering degrees and parts of the electrical engineering degrees. Suppose we have to start with the basics though.

At this place, they really like design; -although it is only one module, one particular lecturer gives us obseen amounts of work to be done using AutoCAD - pretty much the evil of all evil-you can spend 6 hours on his work and you'll still only get 3/10 !!!

As others have said, there is a lot to do on these Aero. degrees (they are all the same with just different names really) and we certainly don't get as much free time as anyone else.

If you intend doing any engineering degree, make sure your Maths is up to scratch-there is a lot of it.

Best of luck
Jason :)

JT8

19th May 2001, 05:15

Jason

In first year they all like design..its time consuming and very tedious, and after spending 6 hours on Autocad, your drawing comes back assessed with red pen all over it! Welcome to the world of aeronautical engineering!!!!

Im a finalist at Loughborough. Design drove me insane in my first year.

Good luck with your exams!

JT8 :)

rossco18_uk

20th May 2001, 18:59

Hi there every1,
I am doing Aero Engineering at Glasgow Uni and I am just about to finish my second year in the course. I think what I am going to say is going to be very similar as to what every1 has already said. In one word, the course is BORING!!!! It is very very very very very very very difficult and a lot of work is needed to get through it. First year is a breeze, but second year - what a difference! It is one of the hardest courses in the uni and as everyone esle said - it is very frustrating. Sometime the course has absolutely nothing to do with a/c at all. Sometimes I doubt whether I will get to the end of 4th year, but i guess i can only struggle along. The maths and aerodynamics are very easy, but it's the mechanics (i.e. Statics and Dynamics), which are the hardest subjects. I am going to do my PPL this summer over in Florida at EFT, if it's any good. (Any1 have ay info on EFT by the way - it would be very helpful). I don't think this course will give you an advantage to getting in with BA either. BA just look generally for a degree, as they know the Aeronautical Engineering has basically **** at all to do with flying an a/c. However, I must point out that I am looking forward to saying I have a degree in Aeronautical Engnineering. It is a highly respected course and not everyone has a degree in it, so I will feel priviliged to have it. (I am this close to dropping it though lol). Again I will point out that if you want to be a pilot, think about doing another course (i.e. mathematics or something), but if you want to be an engineer in aerospace then this course is for you, but you will have to put the work in. I have been very lazy through 2nd year and am going to suffer for it, in 2 days when my exams start, but I have my fingers crossed. By the way just one more point - if you are planning on studying Aero at glasgow uni - the lecturers are sh*te!!! They havent got a clue hoe to teach, but then thats the same on any course. Good luck to everyone on or thinking about joining the course, coz its no easy. I just have to hope BA let me in this summer. I am going to try very very hard to get in this year though. Wish me luck with them and my PPL (remember any thoughts on EFT, either email me or post here).

Happy Flying everyone
Rossco xx

airforcenone

20th May 2001, 20:53

Graduated from Lufbra in 95 with a 'Desmond' in Aero Eng. I've been in the right hand seat for BA for three years and I have a funny feeling that I could have spent my time at Uni far more usefully to achieve the same goal. For example, by doing a course which didn't involve 30+ hours per week, having a social life, flying more often, etc.

An aero eng degree has very little relevance to the job of flying aeroplanes (unless you want to be a test pilot - even then you have to join the Air Force anyway), so have a life and enjoy yourself!!

PS: As far as becoming a manager goes, these are internal applications gained from anyone who is interested and doesn't want to spend their entire life in the air. Previous qualifications usually don't have a great deal of bearing.

Genghis the Engineer

20th May 2001, 20:55

I'm an aviation professional, flying being a small but essential part of my job. Other than that I manage people and projects, approve aircraft design work, fly aircraft, inspect aircraft, etc.

In the course of this, I probably use 90% of my aero-eng degree (Soton). But, my various pilots licenses also get used a great deal, as do various courses I've done on aircraft servicing and inspection, management, etc. It's all cumulative.

If you ONLY want to be a pilot, Aero-Eng may not be what you want to be, if you wish to be a rounded aerospace professional, I strongly recommend it.

The first half of the course is tedious consisting of much theoretical maths, aerodynamics, electromagnetic theory, materials theory, etc. I'm sorry chaps, this this stuff is essential - no fun, but essential nonetheless. Later on, it all falls into place as you start to consider more specialist subjects.

But, the 4 year MEng is only half of the 8 years minimum to become a CEng, it's one of the longest slogs of any profession. Is it worth it? That's up to the individual, but I've no regrets, I have flown, crewed, or worked on getting towards a hundred aircraft types, taken many difficult decisions, and had huge satisfaction from their results.

If you want to get onto the RAeS, by all means do so. The commitees that set the academic syllabus are too-full of professors and not full enough of working Engineers. At the moment I'm preparing a paper to them recommending changes myself (and am in the happy position of having a few worthies like Darrol Stinton and John Edgley behind me), but don't think you'll change anything in your academic career - these things take years to work their way through, sadly.

G

tunneler

20th May 2001, 21:01

Rosco - Couldn't agree more with what you've said about Glasgow.

The lecturing staff are completely abysmal, and I'm pretty damm sure that this year's failure rate will be the worst yet http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Anyways - suppose I'd better get back to those books - good luck for Wednesday Rosco, I know that I'm gonna need some!

Tunny

Captain Cessna

21st May 2001, 00:08

First year Aero at Lboro..

Joined the course because i liked aeroplanes.. I have the feeling i am going to hate them by the time i have finished!

I would say about 50% of the people on the course are there cos they like aeroplanes, and those are the people who are struggling.

However, if you are a maths genius, its perfect for you.

I am not, and have been thinking "what have i let myself in for?" since about week 2 :)

rossco18_uk

21st May 2001, 02:16

Hey Tunneler, I guess you are at Glasgow uni also. What year r u in? If ur in second year then ur in the same year as me and it also means u have an App Mech exam on Wed also?? If ur not in 2nd year, what year r u in? What do u want to get out of the course?

Rossco

'India-Mike

21st May 2001, 13:58

rossco, tunneler

Genghis has made the most accurate and informative post yet regarding the role of an Aero degree in aviation. The Good Thing about an Aero. degree is that, as a pilot, it gives you something relevant to fall back on - you might need that when you get the first anomalous wobble on your ECG.

Even if you're not going to be involved in research & development, design & manufacture, an Aero. degree will equip you with a fundamental understanding that can be very useful to a pilot, whether a PPL or ATPL.

The Lecturing staff here at Glasgow try very hard to make the course interesting and relevant, within the constraints placed upon us by the RAeS and IMechE for accredidation of our degrees. We are very disappointed that you have resorted to defamatory and incorrect statements about our teaching abilities (or lack thereof), particularly on a site that is well-read by fellow-professionals. Pass rates and graduate employment records in Aero. at Glasgow are amongst the best around - we must be doing something right.

You don't need to apologise to me (since I haven't yet been involved in "teaching" you). However the 2nd year Adviser of Studies here at Glasgow is seriously miffed - an apology to him is definitely in order.

tunneler

21st May 2001, 15:53

ehm think someone may have got their wires crossed there India - Mike, I was refering to Glasgow Uni as a whole (which in hindsight is a bad thing) as we all know that as with all profesions you get the good with the bad.

I would have to say that the staff within the Aero department are SIGNIFICANTLY better than most of the other departments. However I have no desire to be drawn into a slagging match about any of it - I retract my post about the pass rate etc, put it down to feeling a touch blue about the forthcoming exams.

Just a genereal footnote thought - and I'd like to hear your opinion on this too I-M....

Does anyone else out there who is studying for any kind of degree (or has studied for degree) sometimes feel that the lecturer is only in the class merely to fulfil an obligation in order for him/her to continue with their research as opposed to wanting to teach???

Tunny

Evo7

21st May 2001, 16:50

<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size="2">
Does anyone else out there who is studying for any kind of degree (or has studied for degree) sometimes feel that the lecturer is only in the class merely to fulfil an obligation in order for him/her to continue with their research as opposed to wanting to teach???
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Very few university lecturers are there just for the love of teaching. Along with bad pay, teaching is something you have to do in order to do research. Given that, however, I'd say that the vast majority of lecturers put a great deal of effort into teaching and take it very seriously. It's more than just an obligation.

Genghis the Engineer

21st May 2001, 18:28

Thank you for the agreement I-M. However, I shouldn't damn these chaps out of hand for their criticisms (reminding you that you've recently publically critised quite a lot of people in a flying magazine !). There are still a lot of aero-lecturers who haven't the benefit of your experience in industry - and remembering my time as a student, they are rarely the best lecturers. I know of one department in the UK (which hasn't been mentioned in this thread, and I'm not going to name names) which now has no lecturers with genuine industry experience. When that is happening, and few Universities have a majority of lecturers who have worked in the real world, you've got to expect a certain amount of flack.

Having said that, Glasgow has got a very good reputation in industry, and I'd be happy to employ one of your graduates. I confess I'd be a bit reluctant where (say) Imperial is concerned, since from what I've seen it is much too mathematical with very little real world grounding. On the other hand, if I wanted a CFD modeller, that's probably the first place I'd look - horses for courses!

G

[This message has been edited by Genghis the Engineer (edited 21 May 2001).]

Pianoman

21st May 2001, 18:51

Well, for those interested I have another story to tell that might be interesting for those considering studying Aerospace Engineering.

At Delft University of Technology in The Netherlands, we have one of the biggest and most well-known aerospace engineering faculties of Europe. The interesting thing is that two years ago the entire 5-year course got it's english equivalent. So it's now possible for foreigners to come to Delft and do their study following the english language course. One advantage of Delft over other aerospace institutions is that the whole range of aerospace subjects is covered and specialisation in a lot of areas is possible. (E.g. aerodynamics, flight controls and flight simulation, aircraft design and performance, structures and materials, aerospace management)

Furthermore in Delft much attention is paid to teamwork and from the first year on you will work on 'real world' aviation and space projects in project teams that are working together to bring the project to a good ending. Often the aerospace industry is involved in these projects and this makes it a great experience as a student.

Of course, as you will have noted in the previous postings, there's still a lot of boring math and mechanics, but that's something you will have to accept as being part of the game. (And in the end it can be very usefull, I discovered)

This is not intended to be an advertisement for Delft Aerospace, but I consider it a suitable option for those considering a career in aerospace engineering. Besides, Delft is a nice town to live and you will find students from all over the world here.
You might check out their website at http://www.delftaerospace.com/

For your information, I studied there from 1993 to 1999 and enjoyed it very much. I specialised in automatic flight controls and flight simulation. Currently I am being trained as an airline pilot for a big Dutch airline, but I still have great interest in the latest developments in flight control and simulation and hope that I can combine my future flying job, with some 'brainwork' as an aerospace engineer. Anyway, having an aerospace engineering degree and being a pilot gives you a pretty all-round feeling.

(To be honest, I have to admit that being (not so) busy in the cockpit, is a nicer job that doing calculations on your desktop, in a hot and steamy office, as I'm doing right now...)

rossco18_uk

21st May 2001, 23:02

Hi there,
i think I have caused some offence. I am sorry if it sounded as though i was making the lecturers sound awful - they are not - they are very decent guyz and i respect them for everything they know, coz they do know a lot. It's just some of them could maybe give a little more examples and things like that. I haven't breezed through the course and I do find it quite difficult, but I do not want to get into an argument about the lecturers - I just want to work towards my exams and get a degree. I have no disrespect towards my advisor of studies either - he is a great guy and a good laugh and teaches very well. I hope this has helped put this matter straight.
Rossco

3g Pullup

21st May 2001, 23:15

Oh my god...I can't believe what I'm seeing here!

Firstly, I graduated with a 2:1 in Aero Engineering at Salford. I did it, 'cos, as a lot of people have said, mad about planes.

Anyway, after hearing some of the commwnts here...

"It's difficult": Of course it is! If it was easy, then it completly devalues the meaning of a degree. If you work your butt off and fail, then you have my sympathy. If you loaf around and fail, then you got what you deserved! I managed to have 3 fantastic years at Uni; I worked hard and played hard.

"It's all Maths": Is it? Oh, that'll be the engineering then! Granted, Thermodynamics never really appealed to me, but the Flight Control stuff was interesting and RELEVANT to aircraft! If you have a good lecturer then he/she will inject interesting facts into their lectures...again, I found this really interesting.

As many others have said, if you want 3 'Freeloading' years at uni, then go and do IT ot Leisure Management. If you do have a genuine interest in the world of aviation, then get on a Aero Eng course; it's the best decision I have made so far in my life!

Depending on your chosen career path as a pilot, BA and the other airlines will know that you are focused and hardworking towards your goal if you have a degree such as Aero. Eng. If you go the 'self sponsored' route then some of the work covered in the degree must surely help you during the theory for the ATPL etc.

Besides, as my Dad always says...

"They can never take qualifications away rom you".

That's what I think anyway. Hope this helps with your decision...

3g

alan69

22nd May 2001, 12:15

RE India Mike
I am an ex student of The University of Glasgow and have to agree. I spent several happy years there until I successfully completed my degree.

(India Mike - we met at Dundee a couple of years ago, I was there with my parents and you were flying your son. Remember me?)

I strongly disagree with Tunneler and Rosco. The course at Glasgow is one of the best in the UK and the lecturers are (mostly) friendly and very helpful, also having a good grasp of the subject they are teaching whilst trying to make, sometimes very dry material, into an entertaining and understandable lecture.

I have to conclude with the statement that although it is bloody hard work it is an excellent time of your life and very rewarding when you step up onto the dias to be awarded your BEng (Hons) Degree in Aeronautical Engineering.
Good night and Thank you one and all!

gsjeff

22nd May 2001, 23:46

Forget it! I am at a college where we had a guy with an Aero Degree join the JAR66 Engineer's Licence Course. So far he hasn't managed to pass a single module (Maths, Physics, Materials, Fundamental Electrics, Workshop Tools & Practices). I believe he may have quit the course!!!! If thats the standard of Degree Engineer we are kicking out of Uni I'll stick with my HNC.

WGW

23rd May 2001, 01:54

My experience of my Aero Eng degree at the University of Manchester:

You'll never understand all of it. You'll never learn all of it. There's no getting round it, it's f***ing hard.

I found that it was all about learning how to pass exams. For this reason, for me the final year was by far the easiest 'cos I'd sussed the exam technique.

Go to every lecture. Learn the lecturer's style. Come revision time, my notes were riddled with post-it notes labelled 'Possible exam question', based solely on the attitude of the lecturer during that topic. I revised those topics ruthlessly the night before, and what do you know? They invariably came up. The signs are there if you watch for them...

Some people on my course worked damn hard and probably know a lot more about Aero Eng than I do, yet came out with 2:2's and 3rds. Me, I got a 2:1, did less work than anyone I know (apart from the drop-outs of course, and there were plenty of those) and had a great time along the way. And as you'll increasingly find out, the stuff you learn at uni is more than likely going to be next to useless in your career - you're going to end up a pilot (fingers crossed) or a manager (yeah, great) in the end anyway and the qualification means so much more than the technical knowledge.

There you have it - the bluffers guide to a degree. Makes a change from giving away BA's secrets now, doesn't it?

WGW

PS: To back up Lady Heath's retort to the lack of pretty women comment, I've met her myself and she's gorgeous...

Dog On Wheels

23rd May 2001, 18:26

Questions to ask yourself:

1. Do you **REALLY** like mathematics?
2. Do you want to be an engineer?
3. See 1.

If the answer to either of those is no, then I'd consider something else. I did it, and I wish someone had told me this beforehand. It's extremely hard. While your mates on other courses are getting away with 7 or 8 hours a week, you wont be able to meet them at the pub because you'll be in 9-5 a lot of the time, and will have a ridiculous number of degree exams to study for. If you want to fly, pick something nice and easy, and spend your spare time with the UAS.

And just to qualify the above, the academic staff on the course at my uni were second to none, and the course is rightly considered one of the best. But it is only for the dedicated.