ATPL Air Law- advice needed.....

[Gearupandorrf]

Hey everyone,

Am currently studying for the ATPL Air Law exam, and was wondering if I could get some advice/ tips from those of you who have passed (post- Tagging era)?

One thing that's bugging me is my inability to remember exactly where to find some references, particulary in the CAO/ CAR's (which don't have any real Index to refer to- WTF CASA???). Stuff in the AIP is not usually a problem as it has a decent Index.

What sort of methods have you all been using to remember where to find references in those Documents? I started studying for this 2 days ago and for the life of me can't quickly put my hand on some references that keep popping up in practice Exams.

Having said that, I can quickly learn to recognise the correct answer to any given question in the practice exams through repetition, but I'm feeling that this will not be enough to get through.

Speaking of practice Exams, I've purchased both the AFT and Rob Avery ones. Based on previous experience, will these be enough to get me through?

Finally, I've heard stories of guys making up their own Indexes and formatting so that they're similar to the Documents. Is that actually allowed??

Thanks for you insights,
Gearup.

[alphacentauri]

Yep, did it, passed it, post 'no tagging' rule. I used AFT notes, which contained a heap of practice exams. If you do the exams, you will learn pretty quickly where everything is and what topics the questions are likely to be on.

Didn't make my own index as its not allowed.

Just do as many practice questions as you can, to learn the location of info in the regs and you'll be fine.

Good luck

[seneca208]

gearup,

I found that I didn't need to know EXACTLY what the reference was or where the info was. As long as I knew it was 20.something or ENR whatever, I had enough time to go to the contents page or flick through the headings.

[Oktas8]

No tagging... But I did only include those sections which are examinable, and I used coloured A4 paper to divide the sections. No problems getting a high mark with Rob Avery.

[kingRB]

particulary in the CAO/ CAR's (which don't have any real Index to refer to- WTF CASA???).actually the CAR's do have fairly decent index pages which for the ATPL law exam split it essentially into 3 sections.

CAO's also have a pretty good index at the start of each order, I don't get why people complain about it..You will know the location of every order you need when you are ready to sit the exam.

My method with the CAR's was to go through and highlight each of the 3 sections using 1 particular colour only for that section. I went through highlighting all the references the AFT notes confirm can be in the exam. 3 different coloured sections I found made it easier to remember generally where a particular topic was by the colour.

Then go and do every practice exam you can get your hands on. Highlight any new references you find for specific questions. There is no substitute for trawling all the docs back to front doing practice exams when it comes to learning where everything is.

I found it a pretty straight forward exam and you will have no issues passing it well if you put the effort in beforehand.

[Username here]

Hey guys, just about to sit Air law... I read someone on here say that it's a good idea to remove any sections relating to balloons, airships, gyro copters ect to make searching in the exam easier.

Just wondering if the same goes for helicopter stuff? I understand that it's a common subject between the A and H so would expect some RW specific content in the exam?

Can I bin the RW regs along with the gyro and airship stuff for the ATPL air law?

[major_tom]

you probably dont have to worry too much about removing stuff - it wouldn't surprise me if a person removed the gyrocopter sections, and then mystically casa throws a gyrocopter question at you lol (based on the way things have been going lately with ASL exams...) :ugh:

All i did was simply use a highlighter to highlight the edges of the paper.

Dark Green = IFR
Orange = Operational (eg: fuel dumping, seatbelts, height over populated area etc)
Pink = Tour & Duty times

etc

Worked pretty well ;) :ok:

[Swept-Wing]

HI guys

secret to the exam is only taking in the sections required for the CAO and CAR
it thins down your documents, so when you forget a reference its a few min job of flicking through rather than a 15min job. Saves heaps of time in the exam and have gotten both myself and friends through >90%

CAO sections required:
20.2
20.4
20.6
20.9
20.10.1
20.11
20.13
20.16.1
20.16.2
20.16.3
20.17
20.18
29.5
29.8
40.1.5
40.2.1 (to page 18 only)
48.0
48.1
82.3
82.5
CAO should end up being under 1inch thick (double sided)


CAR sections required:
Well i cant find them, sorry but your on your own for this one!!! just any practice question that refers to the CAR, take the section out, build your own.
mine ended up being about 5mm thick (double sided)

Best of luck all, hopefully i could help :ok:

[Username here]

That's the info I was after. :ok::ok:

Cheers mate!

[Swept-Wing]

No worries. If I find CAR sections required I will post
Best of luck
:ok:

[BleedingAir]

I completed Air Law just after the no-tag rule was introduced. When I started studying, I thought this would ruin me.

I soon discovered that tags were near-useless... This exam is about, and only about, identifying which piece of law relates to the question, and then referencing that page or pages. After 48 hours of study, it was almost second nature to flip to the correct section of the correct document, without a master index or tags.

Let me know if you want to know how I studied this subject... I truly believe you can ace the exam after 2-3 days of study, without a single tag (I used none).

[radu2000]

I am sitting my ATPL law exam next week. Is anybody able to tell me the number of questions in the exam. I also have some practice exam books for the ATPL if anyone in the Perth area is interested.

[Capt Fathom]

Is anybody able to tell me the number of questions in the exam

Does it matter?

[radu2000]

I would like to know how many questions are in the exam versus the 90 minutes available.

[717tech]

The same amount as in the AFT practise exams.

[Timocracy]

If someone has the CAR sections required for ATPL airlaw and could post them that would be great.

[Nose wheel first]

It's been a little while since I sat Law but you'll most likely get a few questions relating to Maintenance - CAR 42

[radu2000]

For those interested, there are 30 question in the ATPL Air Law exam and 90 minutes available.

[fatih]

Hi Guys,
I’ve got the ATPL Airlaw booked for next week. I only have 4 AFT revision test V7.0. is it worth buying any more or/are there any current exams from AFT that’s worth while investing in. Any advice regarding study tips, methods, strategies used etc?? I head back o/s next weekend so I only have 1 go at this exam untill next year again. Any advice would be kindly appreciated.

Safe flying to all

[Timocracy]

I sat the exam today and passed, got four wrong. Has anyone else had problems with the marking? I'm 90+% sure I got three out of those four right and it was marked wrong or they had super tricky working I didn't pick up on(I finshed the exam in about 45mins and spent the other 45mins looking for any tricky wording I may have missed)

fatih, I used a combination of pprune(thanks to the people who posted the index and the guide to ditching half the CAO's above), Rob Avery's online course(I didn't like the course but his email help and the 150 practice exam questions were worth the $$) and the 4 AFT practice cyberexams. There was only one question in my exam I wasn't 100% ready for after that.

[fatih]

Timocracy
Congrats with the pass :ok: and thank you for the heads up

[air-bender]

Sitting the Exam next Friday,

I'm from over seas and don't have any contacts. I'm also rotor wing.

Do you really need the DAP's STARS,SIPS, ERC's in the exam to pass?

If so does anyone know where I could get my hands on out dated copies of these? I'm in Brisbane and would gladly drive to pick up expired copies if it would help me in the exam. but I've heard you don't need them???

I like the idea of splitting up the CAR's and CAO's into sections you need.

Bender.

[ersa]

Air-Bender

All you will need is a copy of the CAR and CAO , and of course the AIP

There will be no questions that need any charts , or DAPS..
There will be a question on a curfew on Adelaide....read this up before going in

Good Luck......



edited due to adding AIP.....

[Bones13]

You'll definitely need the CAOs, CARs and AIP/Jeps.

The only question I got that actually required the DAPs was something about curfews.

[air-bender]

Thanks for the replies, I found the answer to Adelaide Curfews... another question...

I know I have 90 minutes to do the ATPL Air Law exam but I spoke to a guy who said there was only 32 questions in his exam??? can anyone else comment?

Thanks.

[Bones13]

32 questions sounds about right.
Depends how long it takes you to find references in the docs. It took me close to the full 90 minutes by the time I'd checked everything.

[ersa]

As bones13 said there are 30 questions , my advise is
You will finish in about 40 mins , but use all the remaining
Time to check through every question.

You will need the 50 mins to check word for word from the regs
It's a easy exam don't guess the questions

[Kopity]

Hi, in the list of permitted materials it states allowed materials are :

"CAR 1988
CAO 20-95.2
AIP Book
ERSA complete
AUS PCA
All ERC High and Low and TAC
DAPs East and West
No other references or material permitted"

However, on page 41 of the CAR it states :"CASR is to be read with, and as if it formed part of, CAR."

From experience, are you allowed the CASR in the exam?

And is it really necessary in the exam? I've only noticed a couple of questions in all the practice exams I've sat, mainly medical requirement/ durations etc. Are these types of questions in the exam?

[JustJoinedToSearch]

CASR is not allowed and all questions relating to parts that have moved to CASR are supposed to be temporarily withheld until part 61 unless they are really basic and general in nature. (Told to me by GS)

Make sure you bring both versions of the instrument relating to flight and duty times (old and new). Both can be tested on.

[Creampuff]

2,000 plus pages of masterpiece regulations in the CASRs developed over the last 16 years are almost entirely irrelevant to the skills and knowledge necessary to be an ATPL holder. :D

Kopity: If you have some spare moments and want some perverse amusement, see if you can get a straight answer to your question from CASA, in writing.

[Kopity]

haha thanks maybe a study break activity

[ozziejim]

A message I sent to a mate about the exam, hope this helps

I cant remember using the ERSA/DAPS much but there is a popular (ambiguous) question going around regarding the noise abatement procedures at Adelaide pending on holding fuel and curfew times which will require the use of DAPS WEST and you would probably check the ERSA as well, I would use a tag on this page in my ERSA, and maybe a question on Darwin NDB at night over water, tag on that wouldn't hurt aswell.

Likely to get a question regarding preferred IFR routes which requires rear section of the ERSA, eg. coming into Sydney from the south which is the appropriate route, waypoint X along route Z etc.

CAO's, there will more than likely be at least one question regarding:
20.5 Oxygen and breathing equipment
20.9 precautions in fuelling and ground radar ops
20.11 Emergency and lifesaving equipment
20.16.1 will probably get a question regarding the carriage of a common loading slip over multiple flights on the same route with similar weights and the regs regarding this
20.18 Basic operational requirements, lots of questions on this one. Be particularly careful with section 7, and the wording about assigned altitude indicator and altitude alerting systems, a CASA ambiguous favourite, which will no doubt come up in the exam. Keep in mind the serviceability regs in section 10 when answering with regards to minimum equipment required, as you will probably get a question along the lines of how many AH's does a turbo prop >15'000kg need to operate in VFR and be sure to read all of the last points for appendix 2 of 20.18 as many points alter the requirements of previous points.

A complete fully up to date AIP would help, but if its within 18 months old amendments wise you should be fine in terms of the general questions that get asked in the exam. But a lot of questions will be asked with answers from the AIP.

In terms of the CAR's, you will get a lot of **** maintenance type questions on permissible unserviceabilities and defects that can cause primary structural failure. For e.g A major defect that could cause primary structural failure must be reported to CASA...immediently, all other major defects within 2 working days. CAR's other one that you may need is CAR 217/218 Route qualifications for PIC in RPT/Charter and if you hold

The very first 3 questions in the exam will be about flight and duty times, so I would have CAO 48 ready to go and open when you press on start exam. That and 20.18 ready for the

[Aileron Roll]

Ozziejim, excellent advise, thank you.

I have this exam coming up and am struggling abit with CA0 48, 3 Pilot Flight and Duty Times.


.....with every practise question I usually come up with two anwsers it could be! Any rule of thumb or advise in navigating 3 pilot crew times would be greatly appreciated!

[Kopity]

Ok so I've come across these two questions in practice papers, the wording is a bit crap, but they're likely replicas or similar to real CASA questions...

Also my online access to the answers has expired so I can't get the answers...

Question One

Which answer best represents the "minimum" requirements regarding the power supply to the attitude indicators fitted to a high capacity IFR RPT turbo-jet aircraft unless exempted in the aircraft flight manual permitted unserviceability list?

A: 2 attitude indicators each powered by it's own power supply system.
B: 3 attitude indicators each powered by it's own power supply system.
C: 3 attitude indicators, 2 of which may be powered by one single power supply system.

CAO 20.18, APPENDIX II is the reference I use to answer the question:
"2 AH's (which are later stated to require: duplicated sources of power supply)"

&

"in turbo-jet ac, max weight greater than 5700kg - a 3rd AH (which is powered from a source independent of the electrical generating system)"

The wording here confusing anyone else? I reckon the answer is "C". As the 2 AH's are powered from the main system (although the do have a duplicated supply)

Question Two

Which answer best describes the maximum distance from land that a twin engine Airbus A320 EROPS (EDTO) certificated aircraft can operate without life rafts aboard?

A: 120 min, or 400nm, whichever is the lesser
B: 30 min, or 100nm, whichever is the lesser
C: 30 min, or 100nm, whichever is the greater
D: 50nm

The reference I use comes from CAO 20.11 - 5.2.1.1

"For the purpose of paragraph 5.2.1 (the requirement to carry rafts), the permitted distance is:

In the case of an aircraft that has: 4 engines, 3 turbine engines, or 2 turbine engines AND complies with 20.7.1B, a distance equal to 120 mins at normal cruising speed, or 400nm, whichever is the less

OR

in any other case - a distance equal to 30 mins at normal cruising speed, or 100nm, whichever is the less.

If an aircraft is EROPS certificated is that taken to assume it complies with 20.7.1B? I can't find anything about EROPS in that part. So is the answer A?. E.g: if the question had specified NOT EROPS certificated, would the answer be B?