Fat bloke flight preparation

[Gazzer1uk]

Fat would be how I would have to describe myself in a court of law, stout if its as described by an estate agent and ok..... short as well!

Why am I telling you this. Well finally have my first ever trial flight lesson booked in a whirly bird, either the R 22 or R 44. I gather fatties could have an issue at around 17 stone. Like I say in a court of law, I likely might get the beak looking down their glasses at me if I said, 16 st 12 lbs..... What's the point of lying your way into a deathly situation!:ooh:

So choice is (apart from dieting, I have been 3 stone lighter) risk being refused flight or simply going straight to the R44.

Should I only worry about the extra money and just go enjoy the R44?

Either way, I have flown solo in gliders many moons ago, did a bit of light aircraft flying and have model rc helis, so I do have "some" aviation experience. What could I do in terms of preparation to make this more fun and interesting for me? It may be the only time I go though I truly hope I can one day learn to fly these beasties, maybe if the diet works!

Sorry if its an inane question, feel free to ignore or be rudely funny.:ok:

Gaz

[Art E. Fischler-Reisen]

Don't worry, if the Robbo 22 won't get off the ground with you on board it's not something to worry about.

[Gazzer1uk]

He he, starter for 10!

[Savoia]

Friend of mine was faced with a similar challenge. The Robbo was out of the question because not only could he barely squeeze himself into it but it was surmised by the flight school (in Northern Italy) that were the craft to leave the ground it would probably carry a 10° list!

He did his PPL on a Lama instead!

[RMK]

Stone? Everyone on the planet except Angola, Myanmar and the Americans have gone metric. Everyone also understand pounds (both POH’s use pounds). Post industrial revolution, I don’t see a reason for equating personal body weight to an equivalent number of “big rocks”.

Just joking (...but please use kg or lb). R22 seat limit is 240, R44 is 300. Is your instructor heavy or light? A mix of one big / one small, not too bad, but two big boys and you’ll never be able to get much fuel on board. If you do go R44, you could look around and probably find a good price on a R44 Raven I which in some places can be more near the R22 than full R44 Raven II pricing.

I trained in a R22. I'm 90kg and my instructor was 95kg - worked OK.

[hillberg]

Flat Broke for helicopter training? Damn got to get my glasses. Fat Bloke. . . .

[killahertz]

gazzer,
many moons ago when i did my ppl flight test (which i passed), i was met by my examiner .

i am a robust 14 st paddy,examiner was a big manc boy about 18st odd,day was about 22oC and not a puff, odd for our green isle, was bricking it as i thought out of limits for a r22 and thought the first part of test to cancel. anyway long story cut short, extremely long running takeoff, all the usual stuff ,pretend autos,hover autos etc, while watching manifold press having a fit in front of me.
passed test no prob.

just go for it

post back here when you are done

oh, and have a look at all the incoming tut tutters when they finish working out the weight and bal issue
have fun!

[rotorfan]

Another consideration beyond weight (as if weight wasn't enough). When I booked my PPL checkride with the examiner, he told me to plan a X-C from A to B, and do the W&B with him at 240 lbs. Hmmmm... What a co-inky-dinky, he's the same weight as the seat limit. Once we met, I thought he looked another 20+ lbs. beyond the seat limit.

He had me do a hovering auto, which was sloppy. He asked for a repeat, and I wanted to yell, move your fat arse over, your hip is blocking my hand on the throttle! So, the coziness in the cockpit can be an issue for larger occupants.

I've often wondered the outcome if I had called him on being over the seat weight. Probably been flying back home still a stude...

[ralphmalph]

There is a limit on weight/seat loading for a very good reason derived by factory tests and various calculations.

Aside from the W+B calculation, you have to ask yourself why you would exceeded an aircraft limitation!?

If you are honestly too big, and you still want to fly, loose the weight.

The most important thing to have why starting out as an aviator (not a pilot!) is to have the correct attitude.

Don't pay lip service at this stage and you will probably be on the right track

Ralph

[ralphmalph]

Killahertz,

You need to approach flying with a little less of a flippant attitude, that or you will be bitten by W+B, and the whole host of pitfalls one day!

[Hughes500]

Would suggest that for your own health that you take a crash diet ( no pun intened well I did actually) dont forget you need a medical plus in most machines if your waist gets to about 40 inches then there will be a control restriction on aft cylic

[Crieff-ite]

I'm assuming that being short and heavy, that a lot of that weight is protruding out the front? If so, then there could also be the simple problem of the seatbelt not fitting.
Heaviest passenger I've flown, was 21st and about 5 foot 5. Put him in the back of the banger on the middle seat and used the lapbelt extender to connect the belts either side of him. He wrote a letter of complaint because he wanted to sit in the front!

[firebird_uk]

As a 17 stoner myself I'd suggest you forget the 22 unless you've found yourself a lightweight female instructor who wants to have you rubbing your left arm up and down her thighs every time you meet.

The 22 with a couple of big(ish) blokes on board is also not a great learning environment. You're wedged in with almost no wriggle room, an instructor who's nervous 'cos you're always close to MAUW or at the front of the envelope in a machine that was never designed as a basic trainer.

The simplest solution is to learn in a 300. IMHO it's a better trainer anyway and has a spacious cockpit with no seat limit. Other than that, if you plan to get rated on the 44 in the future and use it to fly yourself and friends then there's a good argument to learn on it from day 1.

Best of luck, FB.

[John Eacott]

Well finally have my first ever trial flight lesson booked in a whirly bird, either the R 22 or R 44. I gather fatties could have an issue at around 17 stone. Like I say in a court of law, I likely might get the beak looking down their glasses at me if I said, 16 st 12 lbs..... What's the point of lying your way into a deathly situation!:ooh:

So choice is (apart from dieting, I have been 3 stone lighter) risk being refused flight or simply going straight to the R44.

Should I only worry about the extra money and just go enjoy the R44?


Using the trusty iBal (which takes kilos, pounds and stone ;) ) the R22 can take you with a max weight for the instructor of 80kg/12 stone 8lbs and no more than 68lts fuel :)

When dealing with overweight pax and CG issues, the (again) trusty iBal makes a disconcerting bzzzzz as soon as it goes outside limits. I had a heavyish pax in the EC130 recently, we were able to joke about it as he reluctantly accepted the back seat on the basis of the output from the iPhone :ok:

[myuserid]

Have you considered the 300 or even the Guimbal Cabri, both are perfect trainers and cheaper than the R44 :ok:

[Gazzer1uk]

Thanks guys,

All interesting stuff. Yes I KNOW I need to lose weight, call me yo, you throughout my life its been a battle, just as nasty as smoking or drinking, to which I have never smoked and I drink rarely (units per month as opposed to day), unfortunately I just have an abused by highly efficient metabolism.

I guess that is why I posted, I was lighter in gliders by a lot, but never needed ballast. I have seen what c of G issues do to my model planes/helicopters.... its exciting, but only ends up in money values being lost and pride, not injury and funeral costs.

Rise in Staverton whom this is to be booked with (got a gift cert) offered a very nice incentive to go to an R44. As this last a whole year, I can, I guess continue the diet by starting it, and wait a few months, or have it to look forward to next year.

The other value of the R44 is the lad can come with me and film it!!!

I guess reality suggests best I talk to the school, and be honest, that way we will both get the best and back alive!!!!

Your input was both valuable and as I hoped amusing!

May the force be with you....... always.......

Gaz

[Flying Bull]

Hi Gaz,

instead of looking for a helicopter who fits you, you really should loose weight, so that you will fit helicopters.
Forget about diets - change your livestyle and the way and what you eat.
Best, get help to achive that.
After beeing sloppy with my life, I went up to 121 kg (189 cm).
Three weeks assistance, lots of sports with me coming close to vomitting a couple of times and changes in the way and what I eat - reduced 7 kg of my weight.
The weeks after that, I continued with sport and what I eat and by now I´m down to 102 kg in less than half a year.
Feel much better now and still work on reducing further.
Everbody can do it - you too!

Greetings Flying Bull

[Gazzer1uk]

FB,

You are right, last year I was 2 stone lighter, a couple of years befort that 3 stone lighter heading to 4 stone lighter!

I wish I could be consistent. It is lifestyle, your are quite correct.

Lighter means better peformance in this discipline,

Thanks,

Gaz

[Flying Bull]

Hi Gaz,

I´m sure, you can - if you really want - or need it.
A few easy to follow steps are:
Reduce bloodsugar - everytime you eat - or drink something sweet - even diet-coke - your bloodsugar is going high - and as long, as it is high - you won´t burn any fat.
Keep 6 to 8 hrs between meals and drink water instead of Coke and Fanta - if you don´t like it, add i.e. some citrus-juice. I add bout 1/4 to 1/5th of ginger ale to my water - still some sugar, but better than just water ;-).
When you eat, start with a salad and drink a lot - and wait 10 minutes, before you eat the main meal - you stomach will be filled and you will eat less...
Eat at least 400 gr of vegetables/salad each day!
Reduce rice, potatos and bread (use crispbread instead).
Don´t buy "light-products", they have reduced fat but added sugar to keep the taste !!!! Just reduce the amount of marmelade, butter or magarine and so on you use.
You can even eat normal cheese - it tastes better than "light-cheese", just reduce amount.
If you cook - reduce fat as much as possible - cook with steam and use a anti stick frying pan with just a spoon of oil for every person.
Start with excercise - at least four to five times a week, at least 30 to 45 minutes - swimming, cycling and later jogging or walking at high speeds.
The more muscels you have, the more energy you burn.
For every kg you want to loose, you have to save 7000 kalories!!!
At the evenings, in front of the TV, eat fruits instead of chips.
The earlier you start, the better - overweight will lead do diabetis and blood high pressure, which will end a flying career!!!!
Wish you luck!

Flying Bull

[Gazzer1uk]

All appreciated FB,

The things that sorts me though is a balanced diet and exercise. I do little of that presently yet this time last year I was cycling 80 miles a week and running 15 to do a charity event in Scotland, 105 miles in 2 days coast to coast, which I completed. As ever, once the "goal" was gone, I got a life back (!) and did very little except continue my dietary habits, which are wrong.

I know, life is not meant to be easy else everyone would be doing it!

Gaz

[Lewycasino]

If you are honestly too big, and you still want to fly, loose the weight.

you really should loose weight

Lose

JHMAJ

[Whirlygig]

Firstly, are we talking about an initial trial lesson? In which case, go for the R44 - no brainer!

However, if you wish to take training further, there is a Schweizer chap at Gloucester as well and I, too, would recommend that you learn in one of those. You will have to pass a medical and the AME might not pass you if your BMI is too excessive.

Putting on 2 stone (28lbs/12.5 kg) a year is more than just a poor lifestyle ... something's gone badly wrong and you might need some bloodtests :ouch:

Cheers

Whirls

[Gazzer1uk]

Thanks again,

Fortunately I get Bupa screening every 2 years. I have had high blood pressure for 6 years, whether at a heavy or lighter stage in by body mass. Under treatment, the blood pressure is fine and under control. I would always be heavier than my ideal weight as despite being short the frame is stocky and muscle mass quite dense, hence BMI is a crude measurement for me. And to get an average of course you have above and below!

So apart from being fat, and presently unfit, I am pretty healthy!!!!:oh:

But yes initial trial lesson to see if the aptitude and fear can be under control! If so, then some saving up etc, during which I know I need to continue to get my weight under control and then that gives more options. No one needs to wade in with the explanations as to why losing weight is good for me, I know, I face it every day and intend to one day be able to win and avoid the yo yo, situation of weight on and weight off. Believe me, its easier to say than do.

But why is an R44 much better in any case, putting the weight element to one side, does it simply fly better?

Cheers,

Gaz

[Redland]

Hey I am quite possibly going to do my ppl with rise too. Don't quote me on it but I think that the price difference is as follows for the two, bit over £16k for an r22 and about £22k in an r44 so it is more but doable depending in budget, rough figuars depending on the hours you need though. I think that there is someone at staverton with a schwizer 300 which would be no problem and I don't think that it would be that much more than an r22 but again don't quote me on that though. I am not sure if Rise has acess to the 300 but well worth asking.

[Thomas coupling]

Gazzer: you are 'dimensionally challenged' my man, not fat! Political correctness is de rigour!
I was involved in an insurance issue surrounding helicopters and loads etc.
If the occupant exceeds the seat loading, be very clear - you will not be insured in a crash. I don't know what an R44 seat limit is but your weight will knacker its performance anyway!
Mind you - look at it positively: you can't fly in a R22 - brilliant news!
:mad:

[Gazzer1uk]

Hi guys,

Rise suggest I would be more comfortable in the R44 and my son can come along too!!

Decision made!

Thanks for the input, humourous, caring and advisory.

I hope next year to post adventures from 2/3rd of my former self....

You never know!

Gaz

[Hughes500]

speak to jon lane at Heliflight he will look after you very well at Staverton:ok: