Union skirmish now personal

[genxfrog]

Here we go again. Some Union leaders just never learn and would rather spend members money on personal agendas than representing their members interests. :=


AUSTRALIA'S best-known unionist, Paul Howes, has launched legal action claiming he was humiliated, embarrassed and ''gravely injured in his feelings'' by the head of the tiny union that represents aircraft engineers, Steve Purvinas.
Mr Howes, the national secretary of the 140,000-member Australian Workers Union, last week filed a defamation lawsuit against Mr Purvinas, the federal secretary of the 3200-member Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association, over an angry email sent to union leaders.
Mr Purvinas sent the email, headed ''problems with the AWU'', to members of the ACTU executive, of which both men are members, on June 4.
The email was the latest salvo in a war of words between the two men stemming from a long-running stoush over which of their unions is entitled to represent aircraft engineers at Qantas.
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It followed an episode in May in which Mr Howes accused Mr Purvinas of waging a ''one-man jihad'' against Qantas.
In a writ filed in the Victorian Supreme Court last week, Mr Howes claims the email formed part of a campaign by Mr Purvinas to poach Qantas workers from the AWU.
Mr Howes alleges the email conveyed the imputation he ''conducted the affairs of the AWU in a disgusting manner'' and ''betrayed the interests of aircraft maintenance engineers'' and the union movement by using material from a confidential ACTU mediation between the unions in a court case.
He alleges readers of the email would have understood it to mean he was ''two-faced'', ''colluding with Qantas management to strike a dirty deal that would reduce wages and safety levels in the aviation industry'' and was preoccupied with ''swanning around with politicians and leaders of industry in the Qantas Chairman's Lounge as he prepares to clear for himself a safe Labor seat in the Federal Parliament''.
Mr Howes, but not Mr Purvinas, is a member of the Chairman's Lounge.
The AWU leader is seeking damages for being ''gravely injured in his feelings, credit and reputation'', ''humiliated, embarrassed and held up to hatred, ridicule and contempt'' and ''injured in his profession''.
Mr Howes declined to comment when contacted by The Saturday Age.
However, Mr Purvinas, who has yet to file a defence, said: ''I'm not surprised that Paul Howes would concentrate his attacks on other unions rather than take on companies that harm our members.''
''Paul has got to learn to cop a bit of criticism at times, he's quite forward in making criticism of others.''
A first directions hearing is set for September 28.

[framer]

What a waste of time, money and energy.
The corporate types will be laughing all the way to the boardroom.
How did the Union movement get so dysfunctional that they are spending their time in court against each other?

[Clipped]

Mr Howes, but not Mr Purvinas, is a member of the Chairman's Lounge.


Says it all really.

[600ft-lb]

As long as he is using his own money for the legal challenge that all the best to him. If Mr Howes ever wants to make it into politics he should get a few lawyers on retainer as they will be quite busy. Imagine if the PM took the court everyone that said ill of her and how she conducts herself.

Dose of concrete is whats required here. Let the FWA sort out which union has the right to cover CAT A LICENSED engineers.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Posted on Twatter -

Howes should get his mum 2 talk 2 Purvinas' mum about him being mean. Maybe dont sit together at big lunch either.

[ohallen]

What were those wise words once offered...toughen up princess.

This sort if inter union rivalry is bull ****e and plays into the hands of the rat execs especially whose aim is to divide and conquer. Everyone must remember who the real enemy is!!!!

[Jethro Gibbs]

Paul Howes seems to think he is in Government .

[armchair quarterback]

he may as well be, he's operating the strings of possibly the worst government in our short history and making sure his chairmans lounge ticket is there for quite some time. Hang your ugly melon in shame howes

[packrat]

Howes is little more than an arrogant overblown thug in a suit who has forgotten his position in life~his attitude is indicative of everything that is wrong with the current Labor Government.He would do well to pull his head in

[Stationair8]

Howes another legend in his own lunchbox.

[genxfrog]

It appears he is another "Academic Unionist" who has never been a shop floor Delegate or elected as an Organiser by his members ever. Just another Canberra wanna-be whose only ambition is to swap his business cards with those who may one day help him land there. I bet his Qantas upgrade is already arranged.

[mahatmacoat]

Interesting article on the big man.


Larry Pickering (http://lpickering.net/item/14053)


I hope you are reading this Howes you may know that our man has been through all this before and the ones who attempted it vanished from our union. I know you think you are smarter than he but I suspect he has more wisdom. Be careful that Steve not know of any illegal activity your union has been involved in, he may have set this up to bring it all out on witness stand.

[Romulus]

The AWU wouldn't notice the amount of money they will use on lawyers, that same amount of money could be enough to send ALAEA to the wall. That would be standard tactics of the big vs the small, don't bother with the actual legality just use the legal system to send the small bloke broke.

It's always best when you get your opponents to do your dirty work for you.

[600ft-lb]

from wikipedia

Paul Howes (born 23 August 1981) is the National Secretary of The Australian Workers' Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Workers%27_Union), a position he has held since the age of 26.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-australian-story-0) He is also Vice President of the Australian Council of Trade Unions[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-1) and serves on a number of Government boards.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-AustralianSuper-2)
He was elected National Secretary of the Australian Workers' Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Workers%27_Union) following the election of former AWU National Secretary Bill Shorten (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Shorten) to the Australian House of Representatives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_House_of_Representatives) in November 2007.
Howes entered politics while still at Blaxland High School in the Blue Mountains (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Mountains_%28Australia%29) of New South Wales, joining the far-left (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-left) political groups Democratic Socialist Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Socialist_Perspective) and Resistance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistance_%28socialist_youth_organisation%29).
He never finished high school, leaving in Year 9.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] However by the age of 16 Howes abandoned far-left politics and joined the Australian Labor Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Labor_Party).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-australian-story-0)
Howes became a union official at the age of 17 when he was employed as a research officer by the Labor Council of New South Wales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Council_of_New_South_Wales) (now Unions New South Wales). He joined the Australian Workers' Union as an official in New South Wales (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_South_Wales) in 2002 and was later recruited to the National Office of the union. In 2005 he was elected as the union's National Vice President, becoming the youngest ever national official in the history of the union. As AWU National Secretary, Howes is a Director of AustralianSuper,[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-AustralianSuper-2) one of the largest superannuation trusts in Australia.[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-3) He is also a member of the powerful National Executive of the Australian Labor Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Labor_Party).
Howes came to national attention as a union spokesperson for the miners during the Beaconsfield Mine Disaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaconsfield_Mine_Disaster).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-australian-story-0)
In December 2008, Howes was elected Vice President of the Australian Council of Trade Unions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Council_of_Trade_Unions). In February 2009, he was reelected unopposed for a four year term as AWU National Secretary. An episode of ABC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Broadcasting_Corporation) program Australian Story (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Story), broadcast August 2010,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-australian-story-0) highlighted his influence within Labor, especially leading up to the Australian federal election, 2010 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_federal_election,_2010).[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-lateline-20-august-4) Others reported to have been influential, in addition to Howes in 2010, include Labor 'powerbrokers': Mark Arbib (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Arbib), Don Farrell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Farrell), David Feeney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Feeney) and former AWU secretary Bill Shorten.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-ogilvypr-5)
In November 2010 Howes published Confessions of a Faceless Man, his autobiographical analyses of the election and 18 months in Australian politics.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-confessions-6)[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-7)[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-8) He also gave a speech to the Sydney Institute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_Institute), which The Australian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Australian) published as an opinion piece (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_piece) headed: "ALP's faceless men must learn to tolerate dissent."[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-howes-tolerate-dissent-9)
Howes lives in Sydney (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney), is married to Lucy,[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-australian-labor-10) and has three children.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-australian-story-0)


Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/alps-faceless-men-must-learn-to-tolerate-dissent/story-e6frg6zo-1225952289523)

In turn, my mates at Sussex Street have got to accept the right to openly debate ideas. The leadership shouldn't sandbag Sussex Street against those who want to discuss these new ideas. Shutting people up turns our natural constituency away from us. It turns our base in suburban working Australia off politics.

[Arnold E]

Notice that Paul Howes has never actually had a job, it appears to me that he is a member of the wrong party. What a douch:rolleyes:

[600ft-lb]

I actually have a problem with fedsec's email he sent to the ACTU.

swanning around with politicians and leaders of industry in the Qantas Chairman's Lounge as he prepares to clear for himself a safe Labor seat in the Federal Parliament'

There is no safe Labor seats after this government. Think Queensland, then apply it to the national scale.

Unionists are like Baristas in my opinion. If the person making the coffee doesn't like coffee, doesn't drink coffee, how can you expect them to care about the coffee they're making. Hence I don't order coffee from school kids working at gloria jeans or whatever. Likewise, I'm glad the leader of my union actually partook in my field of work, experienced bad EBA dealings along with the rest of us and did something about it.

There is usually a happy medium in employee employer relationships. Virgin seem to have it. Qantas seem not to. Something about newtons law and the coogee bay hotel.

[TIMA9X]

Howes is little more than an arrogant overblown thug in a suit who has forgotten his position in life~his attitude is indicative of everything that is wrong with the current Labor Government.He would do well to pull his head in and

Paul Howes seems to think he is in Government .and
The corporate types will be laughing all the way to the boardroom.Yep, thanks for the help Paul....:yuk:

What were those wise words once offered...toughen up princess.

This sort if inter union rivalry is bull ****e and plays into the hands of the rat execs especially whose aim is to divide and conquer. Everyone must remember who the real enemy is!!!!''gravely injured in his feelings'' poor thing

and finally..

Mr Howes, but not Mr Purvinas, is a member of the Chairman's Lounge. Yep says it all alright, and a stupid waste of resources... :mad:
Howes, comes across as a a noisy little man, all that huffing & puffing to get your name up in lights...


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-TUOntIpujUE/UB1FPxgfGzI/AAAAAAAABzc/guR8TKk49Fo/s960/0101-Paul-howes-Chairmans-loungev1.jpg

[adsyj]

To bad the Painters and Dockers are no longer with us, Mr Howes would be having a permanent holiday.:)

[Sunfish]

It has always been obvious that Qantas has impeccable connections on both sides of Parliament and the NSW political paries and has no compunction about using them.

Julia is powerlesss to protect Qantas workers interests.

[Worrals in the wilds]

Union heavies just aren't what they used to be. :sad:
http://www.nobugs.org/engineer/lathe/lump_of_wood-small.jpeg
Tool of trade c1970...
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Tool of trade 2012.
:}:}

[gobbledock]

At least Steve has the balls to come out in public and fight his fights, unless Howes the 'faceless man'. Howes is a turncoat and is not union blooded one little bit.
Keep up the good work Steve, at least you have integrity and stick by your men, to show some solidarity and loyalty.

Howes, you are a footstool of the Prime Minister, now go back to her office, kneel on the floor and take up the position you have earned.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Some people in this country will go a long way to supress a voice of reason. Have a listen to how deep things run.


2GB Media Player - Julia Gillard and the Australian Workers Union (http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=13667)Have a listen to this -

[TIMA9X]

At least Steve has the balls to come out in public and fight his fightsYou did mate, and not with a lot of help from the more powerful unions...
I feel for you SP, it must have been like "running against a wall with your head down" after listening to that....http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/pukey.gif

Sort of makes this thread stand out, what chance did the pilots have when left to rely on the FWA.... :confused:

http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/479225-aipa-vs-fwa.html

A bit chilling after listening to that interview regarding FWA and some of its employees.... and it won't be last last time we hear about this.... the time bomb is ticking for Labor and and its backroom boys.... they have done nothing to save workers jobs in aviation, the record is there now for all to see, so that old claim the party is good for the worker has become redundant, just doesn't mean anything anymore... As for the Liberals, I suspect they knew what was going on as well... and just played dumb..

It is good to revisit this video, sowing more seeds of doubt, totally useless debate wasting parliamentary time pretending to deal with a huge crisis...

C6WOx3c1IfY

[genxfrog]

FWA's decision has arguably put permanent Qantas employees jobs at risk as Qantas can now bring in (after pretending to consult) contractors and labour hire workers on lesser employment rates of pay and terms and conditions. This is simply a race to the bottom that's been endorsed by FWA. The Industrial Umpire needs a good kick in the arse and shown the Red Card.

[TIMA9X]

Qantas secures Fair Work victory over outsourcing limits


Qantas has been dealt a victory in its long-running dispute with 3800 baggage handlers after the industrial umpire rejected their claims for a limit to be put on the outsourcing of work.
The Transport Workers Union, which represents baggage handlers and other ground crew, had wanted outside labour hires to be capped at a fifth of the number of full- or part-time Qantas workers.
But in a judgment released today, the Fair Work commissioners ruled that the TWU's claim failed because Qantas had for many years used labour hire and contractors, which had not been shown to adversely affect the airline's other employees.
"To interfere with management's decision on such a matter would require clear and strong evidence of unfairness," the judgment said. "No such case has been established."

Read more: Qantas secures Fair Work victory over outsourcing limits (http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-secures-fair-work-victory-over-outsourcing-limits-20120808-23u0z.html#ixzz22vthHYWF)







They win again....

Qantas today welcomed Fair Work's decision, declaring that it had mandated that the airline "is entitled to run its business free from union control".
The airline's head of government and corporate affairs, Olivia Wirth, said it was clear that the TWU's demands were "out of step with what is fair and reasonable for a union to demand".
Qantas put the cost of the industrial dispute last year at $68 million.The decision prevents the baggage handlers from taking protected industrial action for at least the next two years.[/QUOTE]


It appears, no matter how big a union is these days, it's hard to beat this FWA system... now known as FWCA Fair Work Choices Australia.... what's the difference?...

[QF94]

He never finished high school, leaving in Year 9.[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] However by the age of 16 Howes abandoned far-left politics and joined the Australian Labor Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Labor_Party).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Howes#cite_note-australian-story-0)

Is there a difference these days? I guess that's what happens when one doesn't complete one's education.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

There is a big difference between left and right in the union movement. The left are like the ones who want to stick up for our rights. The right like to make deals to prevent the need to fight and in doing so give up many of our rights.

I reckon there is no difference between the right of the union movement and the Torries. This is why people have lost faith in unions.

[D.Lamination]

Don't forget Paul Howes is part of the ALP "Military Industrial Complex" that brought us the FWA - a piece of legislation supposedly designed to protect workers but in reality is a just a (Labor and Labour) lawyers picnic.

Consider what would have happened in the "bad old days" under Howard's Work Choices:

Parties would have slugged it out based on their various levels of commitment to the fight and most likely, when they both had a bloody nose, sat down and negotiated.

What happened under the FWA? Fancy QF Lawyers - who were always going to run rings around Labor's straight-out-of-uni-into-the-public service "B" team of legislative drafters, find various loopholes in the thousands of pages of eyeglazing legalese and short circuit the whole thing to their advantage. Thanks Ms. Gillard.

Once upon a time unionists gathered out side the factory gate with a placard and a 44 gallon drum with some burning logs in it while they picketed the joint. Now it's left wing suits doing dirty deals with right wing suits behind closed doors with zero transparency while the high priests (FWA tribunal) genuflect before the the thousand page book that is the FWA.:mad::mad:

BTW - this is a repeat in general terms of how the Hawke Govt. ran IR. A three legged stool of Big Govt, Big Biz & Big Unions (ACTU). If your were a small business or a small union (eg. AFAP,AIPA,ALAEA) you were st*ffed as AN & TN pilots found out.

[Worrals in the wilds]

I reckon there is no difference between the right of the union movement and the Torries. This is why people have lost faith in unions.
IMO they're actually worse. Tories don't pretend to be pro worker. Their manifesto is pretty clear and they tend to stick to it. I don't generally agree with it but at least they're usually fairly honest about what their interests are.

Too many of the right wing Labor types publically espouse labor values while privately milking the system for whatever they can get, and the members be damned. Nor are the likes of PH workers; far too many of them have gone straight from uni (or grade 9) into the machine without a days real 'work' in their lives. :ugh: Nor are they even very good at the machine stuff, as their recent string of public debacles shows. :rolleyes:

They're not even competent faceless men, and their continued incompetence is doing enormous harm to the ALP and the union movement.

[gobbledock]

This is more than I can take.

On just one page we have seen mentioned Howes, Johnny Eyebrows, the Red Headed Clown, even the no longer faceless gimp Mark Arbib!
Combine that with video links and Tim's photoshop work (I do like your style mate) also showing the Carbon Queen, Albo, Martian Ferguson, Swanny and ex union supporters and now turncoats Bill Short-one and Greg Combat and I believe you have possibly one of the greatest collections of 'brown matter' assembled in one convenient location!

Please people, no more pictures of politicans, except for this one:
http://www.gaia-health.com/images/000004-titleimage.png


And yes, I would love to see a return of the Dockers..

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg508/scaled.php?server=508&filename=logoow.jpg&res=landing

[Captain Sand Dune]

The Australian union movement has lost relevancy, hence it's rapidly dwindling membership. Neverthless they wield a disproportionate amount of power thanks to the aparatchiks who have wormed their way into the ALP we see today.
Said it before and I'll say it again; the ALP started on its slippery slope to irrelevancy when Goof took over.
And yes, I would love to see a return of the Dockers.
Bunch of thugs and crooks, them and the BLF. But at least they didn't pretend to be anything else.

[Jack Ranga]

As long as he is using his own money for the legal challenge that all the best to him

If I was in the Engineers' union I would have been more than happy to contribute to a fund to back Steve up if that turd of a thing Howes had a crack.

Howes is a gutless, self aggrandising, arrogant, back stabbing moron with delusions of grandeur who's never got his hands dirty either at a workplace or in the heat of a union battle.

Just look at who he backs in the Labor party, you're a real winner Paul :D how a third rate academic fool like him gets to choose the leader of a political party says a lot about the 'party' that's 'running' this country.

[Worrals in the wilds]

how a third rate academic fool like him... Respectful point of order; he doesn't appear to be an academic. All reports say he left school at 14 and I don't see any academic qualifications listed on his AWU website entry or wiki.

I've ranted long and hard about academic wankers taking over the unions to the exclusion of workers, but as far as I can see he hasn't even achieved that status.

[Arnold E]

Howes is a gutless, self aggrandising, arrogant, back stabbing moron with delusions of grandeur who's never got his hands dirty either at a workplace or in the heat of a union battle.

Ha Ha, dont hold back Jack, tell us what you really think.:ok:

[Jack Ranga]

Sorry Worrals, you are right of course ;) I was more referring to the performance he put on at the Press Club. He thinks he's a bit of an intellect, I could of used a better word like........tosser, wanka, spanka etc.

Arnold, I was holding back mate :ok:

[squarebear]

[QUOTE]And yes, I would love to see a return of the Dockers./QUOTE]

Why??

[I]"Several prominent former members were involved in the Melbourne gangland killings. Lewis Moran and Graham Kinniburgh were both former members and met on the Melbourne waterfront. Five persons who were members or associated with the Union were connected with the attempted robbery of Trans Australia Airlines Flight 454."/I]".....quick ref at Wiki..but it is documented.

Dangerous when one forgets history and glamorises criminals who used a Union as a front, does not progress the legitimate Union cause one iota. :ugh:

[gobbledock]

]"Several prominent former members were involved in the Melbourne gangland killings. Lewis Moran and Graham Kinniburgh were both former members and met on the Melbourne waterfront. Five persons who were members or associated with the Union were connected with the attempted robbery of Trans Australia Airlines Flight 454."/I]".....quick ref at Wiki..but it is documented.
Well they never 'took out' any decent law abiding citizens!

Squarebear, I call it an 'even fight'. If you dont recognize that governments, poilticians and CEO's are silk tie wearing thugs, bullies and executioners in their own right then you are deluded. Its all criminality, only the clothes have changed..

[Arnold E]

If you dont recognize that governments, poilticians and CEO's are silk tie wearing thugs, bullies and executioners in their own right then you are deluded. Its all criminality, only the clothes have changed..

Not possible to disagree with that.:ok:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Not possible to disagree with that.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

I'd like to agree as well but I may find myself seeking refuge in the Ecuador embassy by the end of the week.

[Worrals in the wilds]

Squarebear, I call it an 'even fight'. If you dont recognize that governments, poilticians and CEO's are silk tie wearing thugs, bullies and executioners in their own right then you are deluded. Its all criminality, only the clothes have changed..
Yeah baby.
I'd like to agree as well but I may find myself seeking refuge in the Ecuador embassy by the end of the week.
I think the Aussie section is full...:uhoh::}

[Kharon]

Lets party - go fishing, play footy with the kids, take the boat out, bath the dog, relax on a Sunday arvo. Anything but worry, helplessly about the bloody awful mess this poor old country is in. I intend to do so, the suns out.

Our Hero's at work.

[gobbledock]

I'd like to agree as well but I may find myself seeking refuge in the Ecuador embassy by the end of the week.Could be worse. Imagine 20 years locked up at Mascot in the Leprechaun's office, or locked up in Jmac's office in Brisbane, or worse still - Locked in a basement with Joolia and Hairdresser Tim???

[adsyj]

Could be worse. Imagine 20 years locked up at Mascot in the Leprechaun's office, or locked up in Jmac's office in Brisbane, or worse still - Locked in a basement with Joolia and Hairdresser Tim???


Poor Tim, he is a braver man than me.

[gobbledock]

Poor Tim, he is a braver man than me.
I think he is quite happy with his choice in life. He 'hooked up' with a flame haired Welsh freak who speaks like she has had a stroke, sports a mans haircut (except for the color) and walks like a man who has elephantiitis of the nuts. Just the kinda man Hairdresser Tim is looking for??

P.S I wonder if the poor Hairdresser has to wax Joolia's back and perform a brazillian?

[Romulus]

Looks like the fight is heating up. From today's Fin Review, p40

"The defamation case brought by the not-very-faceless boss of the AWU, Paul Howes, against the aircraft engineers' union boss, Steve Purvinas, hit the Victorian Supreme Court yesterday, with Justice Beach taking all of 90 seconds to proceed with the case after the AWU's lawyers provided a 48 page diary of the wondrous ways they've attempted to serve Purvinas for three months (based on his instructions by phone) - at airport lounges, in his front porch, at his office etc. Justice Beach decided to give Purvinas the minimum 30 days to prepare his defence.

According to the statement of claim, it comes down to an email Purvinas sent to his members, in which he accused the AWU of being "nothing more than a group of company advocates in union shirts that Tony Abbot [sic] would be ashamed of ... The AWU are delivering to Qantas an on-tap group of strike breakers."

Purvinas' hatred of the AWU may explain his attendance at a recent event held by the neo-con Australian Taxpayers Alliance addressed by former 2UE shock jock Mike Smith, who was there to speak about Julia Gillard's days as a solicitor at Slater & Gordon and her involvement with former AWU official Bruce Wilson. and who acknowledged Purvinas in the front row."

Given the other union news of the day perhaps it would have been cheaper for the ALAEA to buy a "luxury mansion" and rent it out to favoured personages than this mess will probably end up costing.

Absolutely ridiculous, employers will be laughing all the way to the Chairman's Lounge, various lawyers will engage in a feeding frenzy and members funds will perhaps be spent on less than optimal tasks.

[gobbledock]

"The defamation case brought by the not-very-faceless boss of the AWU, Paul Howes, against the aircraft engineers' union boss, Steve Purvinas, hit the Victorian Supreme Court yesterday, with Justice Beach taking all of 90 seconds to proceed with the case after the AWU's lawyers provided a 48 page diary of the wondrous ways they've attempted to serve Purvinas for three months (based on his instructions by phone) - at airport lounges, in his front porch, at his office etc.
Perhaps they tried to serve some of the papers by sending them airfreight with a certain carrier, but due to 'service difficulties', delays, AOG's etc it has taken months to get the papers through to Steve??

Don't worry Steve, you still have your integrity. As for Howes :mad:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Been away for work but apparently I have a package waiting for me at home...... anyone want to guess how much he would be suing me for? I have no idea.

[adsyj]

Paul Howes is as weak as piss. Pathetic thing to do.

Keep your head up Steve.

[unionist1974]

How very interesting . My money is on Howes.

[SeldomFixit]

One who came through the politicians Pre School and one who actually gives a stuff about Unions - I'll donate to any collection in favour of Mr Purvinas.

[sky rocket]

Keep up the good work Steve. Your members (plus many new ones) will support you.

[AEROMEDIC]

Just win....:D

[600ft-lb]

I used to be a Labor supporter - ignorant of what the organised union movement actually did apart from the workface involvement.

After recent events in the last few years which I began to take an interest in after Rudd got deposed, the Labor party I thought I held a sympathetic viewpoint with, worker rights an all, began to look somewhat murky.

Further revelations with the Gillard scandal and all, simple conclusion the Labor party is rotten to the core. It's rotten to the core because of the core. The core is these Unions whose reason for being, worker rights, has been hijacked for personal gain by a select few who have never worked in the real world. Living in a bubble off worker contributions.

Never again will I ever trust a career politician or career unionist or any outfit they may be a part of or provide a benefit to. On the public purse in pursuit of power and their own greedy gains. Only when you've been subject to a corporate working over would you consider organising yourself to form or seek to add direction to a union.

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/alps-faceless-men-must-learn-to-tolerate-dissent/story-e6frg6zo-1225952289523)
ALP's faceless men must learn to tolerate dissent

which is what mr howes aka mr faceless man who has been "gravely injured in his feelings" has been subject to.

Paul Howes, secretary of the Australian Workers Union and author of Confessions of a Faceless Man.

pot
kettle
black

so sad.

[genxfrog]

Maybe time to read "The Art Of War" again? Howes will throw AWU members money at this like there's no tomorrow and his aim is to nobble the ALAEA once and for all. His strategy is straight out of the Liberals "Idiots Guide On How To Destroy Unions". That is, take legal action against Steve and the ALAEA which forces Steve to finance an expensive legal defence and possibly pay for Howes legals if Howes wins. Howes will not only dip his hand into the AWU's slush fund finances for this, but no doubt have the financial backing of some ALP hacks that don't like the idea of the ALAEA not being servants to the ALP like most unions are these days.
A Union with no cash is as useful as tits on a bull......think smart Steve for all our sakes.

[Anulus Filler]

Were all with you Steve!!!! You are model of integrity and passion who has the full backing of your members. :ok:

[Worrals in the wilds]

Good luck, Steve. IMO Paul Howes and his ilk are a disgrace to the union movment and all it is supposed to stand for.

[600ft-lb]

I had to have a laugh at some twatter chatter regarding the AWU and Howes in particular.

Paul Howes (http://twitter.com/howespaul)

‏@howespaul (http://twitter.com/howespaul) @chriskkenny (http://twitter.com/chriskkenny) @markatextor (http://twitter.com/markatextor) @illywhacker_au (http://twitter.com/illywhacker_au) @mumbletwits (http://twitter.com/mumbletwits) @timwilsoncomau (http://twitter.com/timwilsoncomau) difference between freedom of expression & defamation is quite stark
strings2273 (http://twitter.com/Strings2273)

‏@Strings2273 (http://twitter.com/Strings2273) @howespaul (http://twitter.com/howespaul) @chriskkenny (http://twitter.com/chriskkenny) @markatextor (http://twitter.com/markatextor) @illywhacker_au (http://twitter.com/illywhacker_au) @mumbletwits (http://twitter.com/mumbletwits) @timwilsoncomau (http://twitter.com/timwilsoncomau) all everyone wants is truth. Tell where AWU funds went

10 Sep (http://twitter.com/BillyFunt/status/245410926478651394)
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/1175886101/image.aspx1_normal.jpg Billy Funt ‏@BillyFunt (http://twitter.com/BillyFunt)
@howespaul (http://twitter.com/howespaul) r u going to take up Michael Smith re his offer for an interview Paul?



18 Sep (http://twitter.com/MeningaMP/status/248057272918495233)
http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/2655066001/2fb005f711c682cd00c12ce9200b6cad_normal.png MeningaMP ‏@MeningaMP (http://twitter.com/MeningaMP)
@howespaul (http://twitter.com/howespaul) What is the best venue in Boulder to address @AWUnion (http://twitter.com/AWUnion) members? Need to reassure them dues r being spent wisely. #Kalbarri (http://twitter.com/search/?q=%23Kalbarri&src=hash) #auspol (http://twitter.com/search/?q=%23auspol&src=hash)


Mal Meninga :D:D:D

[ACT Crusader]

This is more than I can take.

On just one page we have seen mentioned Howes, Johnny Eyebrows, the Red Headed Clown, even the no longer faceless gimp Mark Arbib!
Combine that with video links and Tim's photoshop work (I do like your style mate) also showing the Carbon Queen, Albo, Martian Ferguson, Swanny and ex union supporters and now turncoats Bill Short-one and Greg Combat and I believe you have possibly one of the greatest collections of 'brown matter' assembled in one convenient location!

Please people, no more pictures of politicans, except for this one:
http://www.gaia-health.com/images/000004-titleimage.png


And yes, I would love to see a return of the Dockers..

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg508/scaled.php?server=508&filename=logoow.jpg&res=landing

Mate that is the funniest thing I've read on here for a while.

Plenty of press today about yesterday's FC injunction against "poaching".

[unionist1974]

This is all very funny but in the end someone wiii payup. As I said my money is on Howes to win the legal battle . The other bloke is so far offside its not funny

[Naverick]

'All animals are equal, some are more equal than others'

George Orwell

[Sunfish]

The HSU scandal is just a symptom. The Labor party these days is just a tool for corrupt unionists to begin a new career.

This article could just as easily have been written about Australian Labor:

Whatever happened to the Labour Party? - Comment - Voices - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/whatever-happened-to-the-labour-party-8191251.html)

[Romulus]

The HSU scandal is just a symptom. The Labor party these days is just a tool for corrupt unionists to begin a new career.

There are plenty of witnesses to it all. The key reason Thomson is being protected is not the publicly portrayed story that he is required to keep the Govt alive, but because if he goes down then he takes several others with him, including some potential ALP leadership candidates.

The Union movement does hate exceptionally well. Battles with management are one thing, generally they are fought out on relatively fair grounds. But woe betide anyone in the union movement who crosses someone else who later gains power. That is what started the whole HSU debacle in public when the unions and ALP have always been far better than the Liberals at the quick knife to turn over a leader (refer Howard-Peacock, Howard-Costello, post Howard leadership as three examples of where the Libs are fundamentally weaker than the ALP - along with campaigning capability).

There are certain ex senior officials of unions pouring stories in to the media. They got shafted out of their particular union(s) and now they are looking for payback. If there's ever a Royal Commission into the union movement nobody in their right mind would ever join a union in its current form again.

In this area SP gets credit. I can't say if he's squeaky clean or not, I simply have no knowledge of anything negative. But unlike certain other officials it was never a precondition of any meeting with him or the ALAEA that a woman/women had to be provided at a hotel room at a certain time prior to the meeting.

Anyone who believes the vast majority of unions are actually about representing their members' interests is kidding themselves. There are certainly some idealogues out there who are actually that way inclined, I'd say SP is probably one of those, but the majority are just out for themselves and their faction on the basis that the faction will look after its loyal soldiers. The HSU screwed it up because they were amateurs looking to feed a the trough like some of the big kids.

[Arnold E]

Romulus old boy, I read your contribution with a lot of interest, but can you actually give specifics or are you just full of sh@t? I am not saying that I dont agree with you, since I dont know now where the labor party is headed, certainly not in the direction that I think it should be, but, facts boy, facts.

[Sunfish]

When the fink family owned the southern cross hotel, bob hawk was given the run of the presidential suite every Friday evening to "hold court" with lashings of wine, women and talk. My wife to be shared a house with Two air hostesses who were "guests" occasionally. Needless to say, every reporter and labor pollie rocked up from time to time.

It was an open secret in Melbourne. I'm sure the venues have changed, but not the behaviour - on both sides of politics.

[victor two]

This is really too funny......
Come on girls, can't you just have a big angry union sausage sizzle in some carpark, fly your stupid eureka stockade union flags with all the beer gutted comrades, burn yourself a straw man which somehow represents qantas and kiss and hug instead? Poor babies!!

Whatever happened to "Touch one - Touch All" girls?

[Romulus]

Romulus old boy, I read your contribution with a lot of interest, but can you actually give specifics or are you just full of sh@t? I am not saying that I dont agree with you, since I dont know now where the labor party is headed, certainly not in the direction that I think it should be, but, facts boy, facts.

Yes.

But given I don't fancy spending the next 5 years giving everything to lawyers in order to avoid giving it to certain politicians I think I'll hold my tongue unless and until there is an official investigation of some sort that provides the equivalent of the immunity held by those in Parliament.

[my oleo is extended]

I think the term "faceless men" is too kind, too endearing. It should be "face sitting men" or "face taking men".
Political pus in the labor party pretending to be union advocates. Scum.

[Sarcs]

I see the HSU debacle has taken another twist, wonder how long before the coppers are having a long hard look at the AWU etc.etc

Seems Pickering's not afraid to take on the AWU's former legal running mates, see here:
Some fireworks from Larry Pickering!




NO WIN NO FEE:


Apart from having the sort of head you’d never get tired of kicking, AWU boss Paul Howes’ record of protecting workers’ interests is abysmal.
Police can’t act without a complaint and there are no complaints coming from Howes or the HSU East’s Williamson.

It is no secret as to why.
When someone like the HSU East’s Kathy Jackson files a complaint, Bill Shorten shuts her down by placing the union in administration. Anyway, Craig Thomson is nothing but a small fish among schools of sharks in an ongoing feeding frenzy.


Howes’ union crony and co-Rudd assassin, Bill Shorten, does nothing either. (Except to plead it's an isolated case.) In fact, he goes to extreme lengths to obfuscate the blatant theft.


Left wing law firms have become union savvy and unions have become Left wing law firm savvy. Paul Howes, makes no effort to recover those stolen members’ funds. I wonder why.


The Gillard Government is a creation of corrupt unions, is stacked with ex-unionists (more than 50 of them) and protected by corrupt union bosses. The people who could bring down this corrupt Government (Craig Thomson, Doug McClelland and Ian Cambridge) have either been dumped or promoted to the union controlled FWA.


Oakeshott and Windsor will not walk the plank for the sake of this nation.


As an official of the ARU I quickly learnt the modus operandi of major unions. It wasn’t pretty then... it’s grotesquely ugly now.
The silence is deafening from the Left wing law firm, Slater & Gordon, as accusations continue to fly from credible sources.
It seems strange that a law firm would not immediately sue or at least take out an injunction against its accusers.



Well, here you go boys, I’ll make it easy for you.
• You (Slater & Gordon) have been complicit in fraudulent activities involving AWU officials.
• You aided and abetted union officials in the theft of funds rightfully belonging to AWU members.
• You knew the accounts those stolen funds moved into and out of were fraudulent accounts set up by a certain Julia Eileen Gillard, your Partner.


How’s that? Enough for you yet? Okay, here’s some more:
• You aided and abetted a Bruce Morton Wilson in the dispersal of those stolen funds.
• You represented your client (the AWU) in clear conflict of interest.
• You provided a loan to Bruce Wilson when you knew the loan assisted in the fraud.
• You have done nothing to recover or assist to recover funds misappropriated by your clients, Bruce Wilson and Ralph Blewitt.
• You refuse to release documentation detailing the above.


Is that enough boys, or should I go on? Come on, it's not that hard, surely. Sue me! You’re a law firm aren’t you? You can even give yourself mates’ rates.


There are more than 250,000 people who will see this article via blogs, 10,000 viral emails, Facebook, “The Pickering Post” and its Facebook. God knows how many they will share it with!


I notice you have bumped up your TV advertisements to convince people of your newfound “ethics”. Are you feeling the pinch?
Waste of money I’d say. Oh, unless it’s not yours.
What is it you say, “No Win, No Fee”? Well, you won’t win this one, so you’re home free. You can’t really lose can you?
Oh, yes you bloody can... and you know it!


You are a disgrace and menace to the industrial law you espouse, the people you represent and to the legal profession in general.


Come clean or come get me, you thieving, degenerate shysters!

[Sunfish]

And of course shortens former GF is attornetngeneral

[ACT Crusader]

Now Craig Thompson is being taken to the Federal Court. And if you look at the press over the last week or so it has been filled with AWU 94 issues and CFMEU Oyster Bay anomalies.

I think we're going to get a lot more of these stories over the coming weeks and months....

[Sunfish]

Craig Thompson and FWA: The description "kicked to death by a duck" seems appropriate.

To put that another way, Five years from now, Thompson will be asked to repay $164.23, and will ask, and be granted, time to pay.

[ACT Crusader]

From the Australian today


HIGH-PROFILE union leader Paul Howes has dropped defamation action against the head of the small engineers union, Steve Purvinas, with the duo conceding their public spat was undermining the need to unite against ‘‘vicious attacks’’ by employers.

The peace deal was brokered by the national secretary of the Transport Workers Union, Tony Sheldon, who acknowledged yesterday the legal fight was ‘‘not a good look for the broader (union) movement’’. Mr Howes, the national secretary of the Australian Workers Union, launched defamation action in August, claiming he was humiliated and embarrassed by an email sent by Mr Purvinas, the federal secretary of the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association, to members of the ACTU executive headed ‘‘Problems with the AWU’’.

Mr Howes alleged the email portrayed him as ‘‘two-faced’’ and preoccupied with ‘‘swanning around with politicians and leaders of industry in the Qantas Chairman’s Lounge as he prepares to clear for himself a safe Labor seat in the federal parliament’’.

Mr Sheldon, who thrashed out the deal with the two men recently in his union’s Sydney office, said that he had been concerned that the duo were spending resources on the legal battle rather than the bigger challenges posed by some employers. The legal action by Mr Howes, whose union has 140,000 members, risked putting financial pressure on Mr Purvinas and his 3200-member union.

‘‘They are a small union and don’t have much resources,’’ one official said. ‘‘It wouldn’t have been pretty.’’ Under a memorandum of agreement, Mr Howes and Mr Purvinas agreed to ‘‘withdraw, apologise for, and accept withdrawal of all uncomplimentary comments’’ previously made against each other. Comments on Twitter, Facebook and other internet forum would also be deleted. The agreement says the union movement faces some of its biggest challenges, with militant employers, spurred on by the ‘‘antiworker’’ Tony Abbott, perpetrating ‘‘brazen and vicious attacks’’ on workers.

While the men agreed unions must rally together to meet such challenges, ‘‘this is not to say that there will not be differences in approaches along the way’’. ‘‘Our diversity strengthens us,’’ they said. ‘‘But when our differences appear so distinct as to threaten our capacity to meet the challenges we face, we must sometimes together redouble our efforts to resolve them.’’

After signing the document, which was witnessed by Mr Sheldon, Mr Howes and Mr Purvinas said they went and talked ‘‘over a beer’’. Mr Howes said yesterday he had known Mr Purvinas ‘‘probably longer than anyone else in the union movement’’. ‘‘Despite our relationship having many ups and downs, I have always respected him,’’ he said. ‘‘I would much rather be united with my colleagues in campaigning against those who seek to undermine a fair go in this country than (fighting) each other.’’

Mr Purvinas said it ‘‘was good that both of us could shake hands’’ and resolve their differences ‘‘over a beer’’ rather than continue action through the courts.

[LAME2]

Well done to all involved.

Now lets get on wth the more critcal problems we face.

[Cargo744]

Unions are completely inept and outdated. The CFMEU musical chair competition was hilarious! Why would you pay fees for something that brings no reward? Unfortunately taxes are mandatory...

[Arnold E]

Unions are completely inept and outdated.

And who, pray tell, is better equipped to look after the ordinary working man's interests.:ugh::ugh:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Just imagine a world where there was no voice for workers at all. Employers could just pay what they wanted and work you as long as and however they liked. Some people in this world would like this.

The beneficiaries of such a system would be the bosses and in some cases, company owners. The people already earning millions each year. They want to destroy unions so they can implement such a system in part or full so they can earn more and you can earn less. This is greed and these people are driven by it.

A good union leader will always want to oppose this greed. For me a lot of it is the fight against selfish people. If you think we should have a society where greed and selfishness flourish, get rid of unions.

[genxfrog]

As John Elliot would say "140,000 members??.....Pigs Arse!!!"

Howes: Less powerful than he pretends? (http://afr.com/p/national/howes_less_powerful_than_he_pretends_YQzV05ulnSRCRXoPsfQcvO)

As they say Steve, "keep your friends close...keep your enemies closer". The dark side of Politics takes no prisoners and when a bloke like Howes and the National Vice President of the ALP (Sheldon of the TWU) offer a peace pipe......be very very skeptical. :E

[AEROMEDIC]

Steve,

The conciliatory conclusion to the matter is not only in the interests of you and Howe, it was also in the best interests of the members of both unions.

While I was sympathetic with your position at the time, I am pleased with the outcome that did not result in inflicting large imposts on ALAEA funds.

As to the value of belonging to a union, there can be no better way to ensure that employees get a fair wage than collective bargaining, carried out by experienced and knowledgeable union professionals..

[Cargo744]

Arnold....

Who is better equipped? How about the workers themselves? The people who actually work the job everyday and know the issues and problems with their work place. Not some hack who lobs into the operation every few months (or years) to collect a couple of hundred bucks and tell the how evil all companies are. Unions live off creating an environment of fear and loathing. Outdated and inept organisations who promote such people as Craig Thompson.

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Yeah cargo, because the unions do sweet FA behind the scenes, do they? You have no clue buddy.

[Cargo744]

Brissy... Oh please! Other than running up credit card bills, slagging off about how unfair everything is, using left screwdrivers... oh wait they are quite busy. My apologies.

[AEROMEDIC]

It seems to be forgotten that it is not compulsory to join a union and so therefore no obligation to pay fees to anybody.

There is a very significant number of employees in the aircraft industry that not only do not contribute to funds required by a union body to represent them, but go running to the local rep when wanting information or if in trouble with the employer.

All employees go to the union meetings, have their say, ask Jtheir questions, put their five cents worth in whether they are members or not. The non members have the benefit of being represented by the union in negotiations with the employer without paying.

In the past these negotiations have provided improved rates of pay for improved work output, etc. and currently, the redundancy clauses in today's work climate.

The union spends these fees on infrastructure and their legal staff providing better outcomes in return for ther members.Without the union at all, employees would be on their own, fending for themselves and being asked to sign AWA's for far fewer benefits and less pay.

I don' t think that I have ever seen a non member get a higher rate of pay or better deal than a member of the same classification.

Joyce would have ALL pilots and engineers on far less salary if he could get away with it and a non member today would be walking around with a target on his back.

There are good reasons why a company has to reduce costs, and sometimes bad ones, but unions are the only ones able to stand up and take action collectively when companies actions are just plain wrong. A non member needs to cashed up if he/she wants to go to court over an issue concerning themselves.

I've never seen a non member going to court for the benefit of his/her workmates.

Unions inept? outdated?

Some people like Craig Thompson may be, but if you don't want a union, you don't have to be a member and ride for free on the fees the members pay, but expect to represent yourself if YOU get into trouble.

I'm fortunate that today, I don't work for an employer and am well off, but I have the association/union to thank over the years to enable me to accumulate enough from good salary to start, operate, expand and finally sell my own business (for a good return).

[priapism]

After their last EBA NSW paramedics left the HSU in droves to join a newly formed national professional association founded and run by operational paramedics. No political affiliations are tolerated and no member contributions are donated to political parties. They are sufficiently financial enough to employ had picked a very good team of industrial lawyers, with great experience and knowledge of how FWA works, to represent their members in both individual and collective problems. I have joined the same organisation in Victoria after a disgraceful outcome in our EBA when the ALP was in power. A question was raised at a union meeting as to just how much the union was contributing to the ALP, who , at the time were screwing us to the wall. The question was not answered - danced around by the executive - mentioned an obligation to the parent union the LMHU. When it was investigated, the union's financial statement revealed nothing other than fees to the parent union. I then investigated the parent union's financial statements to find over $300,000 dollars over 2 years paid to " The ALP, Trades Hall and it's Affiliates".
In Victoria , we are currently in the early stages of out EBA and the professional organisation I am now a member of is representing a significant amount of us, and very well. Although the outcome is a collective vote , they will ensure the most honest outcome under the present law. Under current FWA law union membership is not a pre requisite for representation in industrial matters.
Think of what you are paying in union fees . Think of how many of you there are. Think about getting organised. Register yourself with FWA. Use dedicated and enthusiastic members to do the groundwork like membership, treasury etc. I did it for 12 months. It was a labour of love .The funds soon build up. I know that , if I am in the poo, and need help, I would rather a qualified and experienced industrial lawyer in my corner than a politically motivated union rep. Just saying there are alternatives.

[Cargo744]

Well done Priapism.

The point is that the workers who live and breath the day to day work place are the ones with the power not a bunch of mouthpieces spewing insults. The sooner the "Union Movement" is shown as the waste of time and money that it is the better. I'm all for everyone getting a fair go and fair pay for the work they do but i for one am sick and tired of the disgraceful and sometimes criminal behaviour of some Unions. They are detrimental to workers, the company and our economy as a whole.

[Arnold E]

Who is better equipped? How about the workers themselves?

What planet do you live on, must be a different one from me. On Earth, where I live, its true that we have had a very small number of rouge union leaders, but, even with them in the system, a single person on his own has almost no bargaining power. I have noted on occasions that there as some rouge employers as well who would be quite happy to give their employees nothing in return for their labours, I can think of one such employer who inherited a very large, rich, and powerful bussiness from said persons father. :ugh:

[Cargo744]

Arnold you really are a goose. If you want bloated organisations who are only have self interest at heart then go pay your "dues". As i said the only people who really know the issues are the people who are involved all day everyday.

Have fun with your preselection obsessed reps!

[Arnold E]

After their last EBA NSW paramedics left the HSU in droves to join a newly formed national professional association founded and run by operational paramedics.

What do you call the above???

Well done Priapism.

You seem to approve???

Yep, I'm a goose and your a genius.:ok:

[AEROMEDIC]

Cargo,

You clearly don't belong to a union, so do you negotiate personally with your employer?
Have you been offered a separate agreement for yourself and if not , how is your salary paid?

If you are unhappy about how things are done, go to your employer and say so.
I'm sure they 'll be listening to you.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

After their last EBA NSW paramedics left the HSU in droves to join a newly formed national professional association founded and run by operational paramedics. No political affiliations are tolerated and no member contributions are donated to political parties. They are sufficiently financial enough to employ had picked a very good team of industrial lawyers, with great experience and knowledge of how FWA works, to represent their members in both individual and collective problems. I have joined the same organisation in Victoria after a disgraceful outcome in our EBA when the ALP was in power. A question was raised at a union meeting as to just how much the union was contributing to the ALP, who , at the time were screwing us to the wall. The question was not answered - danced around by the executive - mentioned an obligation to the parent union the LMHU. When it was investigated, the union's financial statement revealed nothing other than fees to the parent union. I then investigated the parent union's financial statements to find over $300,000 dollars over 2 years paid to " The ALP, Trades Hall and it's Affiliates".
In Victoria , we are currently in the early stages of out EBA and the professional organisation I am now a member of is representing a significant amount of us, and very well. Although the outcome is a collective vote , they will ensure the most honest outcome under the present law. Under current FWA law union membership is not a pre requisite for representation in industrial matters.
Think of what you are paying in union fees . Think of how many of you there are. Think about getting organised. Register yourself with FWA. Use dedicated and enthusiastic members to do the groundwork like membership, treasury etc. I did it for 12 months. It was a labour of love .The funds soon build up. I know that , if I am in the poo, and need help, I would rather a qualified and experienced industrial lawyer in my corner than a politically motivated union rep. Just saying there are alternatives.


This pretty much describes the ALAEA. We have nothing to do with any political party. Not one member of our Exec is an individual member of one and we do not donate to ALP. We are striclty not a union but a professional Association with two solicitors on staff. It was LAMEs who got organised in 1960 and set us up this way to break away from the very thing you appear to dislike.

[Arnold E]

Cargo, the next time you have a day off sick and get paid for it, you can send me a PM and say "thank you Arnie for fighting for this for me through your union". The next time you get your holiday pay and get your leave loading you can send me a PM and say "thank you Arnie for fighting for this through your union". When you take your long service leave you can send me a PM and say "thank you Arnie for fighting for this through your union". Now if you dont get any of these things, well let me tell you, I get them all, and if you do get them, then you are riding on my, and other unionists back, because I was there during all of these struggles and I can tell you that no employer offered them, it was all fought for. So, do I hear you saying, thanks Arnie and all of your unionist mates from that era, or are you just going to scab on the work of all of us and go on your merry way???

[Worrals in the wilds]

Nah, they're managers, on big fancy packages that are so fancy they can't tell anyone the details. :suspect: That's because they're individually negotiated and when you hear some of the details from some of the individuals they're just not that fancy :eek:.

That's okay, because they're much more important than you are. ;) They won't dare call in sick, they won't dare take their annual leave and they'll work sixty hour weeks for a salary package factored on thirty eight, but they're doing great, just ask them.

The 'all unionists are crims' argument is like the 'all priests are peds' argument; pervasive, popular with the cool set and competely untrue. Never let that get in the way of a good story though, particularly at EBA time when the whole management 'team' has been off to seminars about how to divide and conquer their stoopid workers.
Unions | directory.actu.org.au (http://directory.actu.org.au/unions/)
The majority of unions listed above that haven't been accused of rorting, that aren't big and newsworthy and that consistently do their thing for their members.
I'm all for everyone getting a fair go and fair pay for the work they do but i for one am sick and tired of the disgraceful and sometimes criminal behaviour of some Unions. They are detrimental to workers, the company and our economy as a whole. Absolutely correct and so are a bunch of due paying people. :ok: That doesn't make the majority guilty. Show me another way that the relatively uneducated worker can stand against his/her company's HR experts and finance gurus when it comes to pay and conditions time and I'll support you. In the meantime, my experience with non-union worker representative groups is that they bow to the first pressure, buy all the corporate BS thrown at them and sell their group up the garden path out of fear and ignorance. I'm not referring to professional associations or half breeds :} like the ALAEA, but the token 'representative' group that exists in many non unionised companies that is frequently hand picked by HR so as to cause the least trouble for the company.

IME the MO is to find a bunch of scared neurotic people who really want promotion but aren't capable. Stick 'em on a committee and tell them they're important, then tell them what the company wants and why they have no choice.

Just my experience. :hmm:

[genxfrog]

Arnold, you dont have to justify your argument to Cargo744. He is just another one of those faceless "Im better than the rest" and "I know it all" trolls who would no doubt be the first to scab on any fellow workmates if there was ever a need to stick together. He'd also dob in a workmate if he thought he'd get a pat on the back by his boss.
He probably carries pics of Joyce and Gina Reinhart in his wallet, is a Scientologist, puts his rubbish in his neighbors bin at night, wears an imitation Rolex watch and his favourite movie is Gone With The Wind.

[The Bullwinkle]

Ahhhhhh, now I remember why I stopped looking on pprune!:}

[Worrals in the wilds]

Off you go then! There's a big wide web out there...:E

[Cargo744]

GENXFROG... gee you know me so well!! One day you may open your eyes but in the mean time keep wandering aimlessly along. I better go and update the photo's in my wallet and give praise to Tom Cruise.

[1746]

ALAEA Member & Proud of it!I trust these guys and happily pay my dues!
I know they can't fix many of the ills in our industry but I know they are trying too!:D:D

[priapism]

If the paramedics had been represented by a union like the ALAEA there would have been no need to leave it and form a separate professional organisation.

[Romulus]

On Earth, where I live, its true that we have had a very small number of rouge union leaders

Do you mean rouge as in red, some form of sunburn perhaps?

Or do you mean rouge as in Red as in Communist?

:}

But I'll go with a rogue typo creeping in....

[ampclamp]

Romulus,
I'm glad it is not just me that think the Khmer Rouge are the rogues here. :E
Seen it many times but ...now they are on weekend release I'm onto it.;)

[Arnold E]

Ok, I cant spell and I am wrong, happy now???

[Romulus]

Arnie, I'm usually the king of typo's myself, in this one I fund the rouge/Red/communist union leader a bit irresistible (hence the broken tooth smiley). Not having a go at you, just having a bit of a giggle at the unintended pun.