NAIPS and NAIPS for Windows and AIS/MET Changes

[Slugfest]

I have recently noticed this on the top of the Briefing pages and a new project web site....interesting...


AIS/METCover Page

NOTE1. Changes are coming to the Pilot Briefing Website in OCT/NOV 2012.

A new 'NAIPS Internet Service (NIS)'will totally replace the

existing Pilot Briefing website, NAIPSfor Windows (NfW) and

AIS/MET in the coming months. Much ofthe functionality of NfW will

be incorporated and many new featuresintroduced in this new online

tool.

There will be no cost or charge for theenhanced service provided

by NIS.



NOTE2. With the introduction of NIS and retirement of the AIS/MET System, A

NAIPS User ID and Password will berequired for individual's access.

These are available by registrationwith the NAIPS HELP DESK (Phone

1800 801 960) or online at the PilotBriefing Services webpage.





NAIPS Cover Page

Note 1. Changes are coming to the Pilot Briefing Website in OCT/NOV 2012. A new NAIPS Internet Service (NIS) will totally replace the existing Pilot Briefing website, NAIPS for Windows (NfW) and AIS/MET in the coming months. Much of the functionality of NfW will be incorporated and many new features introduced in this new online tool. There will no cost or charge for the enhanced service provided by NIS. Note 2. ICAO has changed Flight Planning procedures and this is to be introduced in Nov 2012. Information can be found on the airservices website, Projects menu in the ICAO Flight Planning Amendment 1 section. Note 3. With the introduction of NIS and retirement of the AIS/MET System, NAIPS User ID and Password will be required for Individuals access and available by registration with the NAIPS HELP DESK Phone 1800 801 960 or register on line from the Pilot Briefing Services webpage. Airservices projectinformation…

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/naips-project/ (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/naips-project/)



Airservices Pilot Briefing Services (NAIPS) project


NAIPS is being upgraded to improve the internet-based Pilot BriefingServices. This project also includes the decommissioning of NAIPS for Windows(NfW) and the start of the retirement process for the AIS/MET legacy system.

The improved Pilot Briefing Services will be known as the NAIPS InternetService (NIS) and will incorporate functions currently available in NfW and theexisting website. This will allow all users, not just Windows PC users, toaccess them.

Users will be able to upload their existing NfW files to NIS. These includeFlight Notifications, SPFIB and Aircraft Profiles. Once uploaded, they will beable to be stored on the NAIPS server so can be accessed from any computerusing a standard browser. Additionally, users will be able to create andself-manage all these stored templates independent of Airservices BriefingOffice.

Prior to commissioning of NIS, you will be given more information, includinginformation about timing. However, we anticipate that work will be completed inOct/Nov 2012.

Additional changes to the ICAO Flight Notification Form will also beimplemented by November 2012. More details are available on our ICAO Flight Planning Amendment 1 page (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/icao-flight-planning-amendment-1/).

Improved functionality


The following additional functionality is also provided:

1. Improved site navigation
The new interface includes a new menu panel that will allow you to moveeasily from one area to the next.

2. Groups
The concept of ‘Groups’ has been introduced. Members in a group will beable to share stored Flight Notifications and Briefings while retainingindividual logon credentials. Users will be able to create and manage groupsthemselves.

3. Avfax
Avfax has been expanded to allow you to create and store your own CustomCodes. A fax number is no longer required.

4. Account management
You will be able to register yourself and manage your accounts includingchanging passwords and details. A forgotten password facility has beenprovided.

5. Password security
To make passwords more secure, they will need to be a minimum of seven (7)characters and must contain a mixture of alphanumeric characters. The Avfax PINwill be based on the first four (4) characters.

[Slugfest]

Saw this change that may interest all...


NAIPS-Internet-Service-Getting-Started-Guide.pdf (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/NAIPS-Internet-Service-Getting-Started-Guide.pdf)

NAIPS-Internet-Service-User-Documentation.pdf (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/wp-content/uploads/NAIPS-Internet-Service-User-Documentation.pdf)

[lolami]

"NfW software will no longer connect to the NAIPS database post NIS commissioning."

i wonder if that includes ozrunways, avplan, command flight planner, etc or if they will lose this functionality on that same day.

if so i hope the website has been thoughly testing on smart phones. i know alot of people don't think naips for windows is needed but as someone who often uses naips on below average internet connections i have always thought it has its place

[Bevan666]

Lets just say we are all super busy rebuilding everything for the 27th. The timeframes that we and OzRunways are further compressed as we need to get stuff reviewed by mapple.

We only got access to a test environment two days ago, and lets just say our experiences to date have been underwhelming.

Challenging times for sure!

Bevan..

[Dangly Bits]

My iMac will be very upset!

[baswell]

What Bevan said.

If they can fix our access issues soon so we get full access, we might just make it, but Apple can still throw a spanner in the works. :(

And then we need to make some more changes just another week or two after when there's a change in flight planning forms.

[Shagpile]

Bust out the *popcorn* for the million calls to Bris briefing.

[lolami]

it's good to here you have been given some dev time, even if it isn't much. Will there be much of a change for the user within the apps or is it just a few extra fields like on the new flight notification form?

i do plan on putting the briefing number in my phone before the 10th, just in case.....

[QFF]

So does anyone know the actual rollout dates? It just says Oct/Nov 12 on the ASA website. What can we expect on the 27th Oct and/or 10th Nov?

[Bevan666]

The new NIS system goes live on the 27th of October. This introduces a whole new interface that the likes of AvPlan and ozrunways are busy coding for. This is the date when NAIPS for windows stops working, if you use that at all.

Then on the 12th will come the new flight plan format, adding a whole lot more codes on item 10, and a few other changes. This also means AvPlan and ozrunways need to change again.

In AvPlan's case everything that we can test looks like it works, but we as yet cannot test flightplan/sartime submission, or NAIPS charts functionality.

Bevan..

[topdrop]

It seems the functionality will be similar to NfW - from Pilot briefing page:

A new NAIPS Internet Service (NIS) will totally replace the existing Pilot Briefing website, NAIPS for Windows (NfW) and AIS/MET in the coming months. Much of the functionality of NfW will be incorporated and many new features introduced in this new online tool.
Please note: You do not need to register for NIS. Your existing NAIPS logon will be transferred to NIS.
There will no cost or charge for the enhanced service provided by NIS.
Visit the NAIPS Internet Service Project page (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/naips-project/) for more information.

[morno]

****e, settle down fpvdude. Things do change you know, :rolleyes:.

If there hasn't been much consultation, obviously the changes won't be of that much significance that we need to learn all about them.

And where does it say that it'll be decomissioned and then not implemented for 2 weeks?

morno

[Bevan666]

The new NIS web interface will be live on the 27th. This will replace NAIPS for Windows.

Its java based, and apparently does (almost) everything that NAIPS for windows did.

It even seems to work OK on the iPad - havent tried it on the iphone or any other mobile thingie as yet.

[Slugfest]

fpvdude,

I suggest that you check the links above to the user manual and getting started guide. Do some reading on the airservices projects webpage too huh?

Airservices Pilot Briefing Services (NAIPS) project (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/naips-project/)

and the other page of interest...

ICAO Flight Planning Amendment 1 (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/icao-flight-planning-amendment-1/)

Sources tell me that the timing of the change is scheduled for Sat Night 27th Oct to roll out the NIS....So from say midnight 27th Oct, NFW will be dead. Wake up Sunday morning and use NIS.

....and because I RTFM... I see that NFW files (SPFIB, Flight Plans and Aircraft Profiles) are able to be imported into NIS for use and storage online.

The ICAO mandated flight plan change is to roll out on Sat Night 10th Nov so again, wake up Sunday Morn, 11th Nov and flight plan with the new format.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Jeez Slug,

Now I gotta learn another system..??

2 in 20 years...... ****e:ok::ok:

[swh]

I was glad when dectalk and avfax were no longer only available over a phone/fax line. NAIPS was a good step forward, I am sure this will make life easier again.

[Capn Bloggs]

This is the date when NAIPS for windows stops working, if you use that at all.
FYI, NFW cr@ps all over the current web version, and from what I have seen will also still be better than the new NIS. The world is not all Apple you know...

[baswell]

Cannot believe there has been no liaison between casa and the
operators.
There has been; all of the Australian owned and based international full-service airlines have been involved for quite a while! :ok:

[kalavo]

Great, just what we need. Bloated java crap when trying to submit a plan on a dodgy connection. HTTP POST worked great in this environment, doubt Java will do the same.

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Wow, not sure how I missed this one.
I am sure all will be ok and this is not going to be Y2k (look it up Gen Y) however if you are a small operator and worried just make sure to have a blank paper copy of the Domestic Flight Notification Form and a fax machine handy. Yes yes it's Neanderthal technology but how hard is it to dust the old girl off just in case?

Have fun!



Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[Shagpile]

Trust me, if you can work out how to post on this Internet forum, you will be able to work the new website.

[baswell]

Great, just what we need. Bloated java crap when trying to submit a plan on a dodgy connection.
The server backend is Java; you are not working in some Java Applet when trying to submit a plan! That's just pretty good HTML. Just don't try to use the "back" button in your browser. Hope they can fix that issue, 'coz that's pretty lame.

[kalavo]

Ahh maybe there is still hope!

[baswell]

The website is a *huge* improvement over what you have now and I doubt you will miss NAIPS for windows for even a second.

The only issue is the 3rd party apps getting very little time to implement and test, as well as some missing features for us. (For now: charts and restricted area briefing)

[ChrisW67]

Just to add to what Bevan and others have said. Command Flight Planner has been modified to allow the user to switch between old and new NAIPS interfaces, and current and new flight notification formats. We intend releasing before the 27 Oct date but at the moment a few missing (upstream) functions and testing interfaces are holding things up. I have seen the new web-based NIS interface and it is indeed an improvement on the old. It has some ability to import information from NAIPS for Windows but I cannot comment on its utility in that regard. Cheers, Chris

[Slugfest]

AIC H12-32 has been issued.

H32/12 - Changes to Airservices Pilot Briefing Services, NAIPS for Windows and AIS/MET (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/sup/a12-h32.pdf)

[Slugfest]

NOTAM out too:

YMMM C6308/12
ELECTRONIC BRIEFING AND SUBMISSION OF FLT NOTIFICATIONS NOT AVBL
DUE NAIPS INTERNET SERVICE (NIS) INSTALLATION AND COMMISSIONING

THE FLW FACILITIES NOT AVBL:
-INTERNET BRIEFING AND FLT NOTIFICATION SUBMISSION
-AVFAX/METBRIEF/AERIS/VOLMET
-OPERATIONAL INFORMATION VIA FLIGHTWATCH
-STORED FLT FILES HELD IN NAIPS
-INTERNET MET AND NOTAM BRIEFING FM THE AISMET SYSTEM

THE FLW FACILITIES ARE AVBL:
-PHONEAWAY CARD PHONE AND FAX SUBMISSION OF FLT NOTIFICATIONS 1800
805 150
-BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY AVIATION WEATHER BRIEFING AT
WWW.BOM.GOV.AU/AVIATION

FLIGHT NOTIFICATIONS HELD AS NAIPS FILES WITH AN ETD PRIOR TO 1800UTC
SHOULD BE LODGED BEFORE 1100UTC
FROM 10 271200 TO 10 271800

[Aimpoint]

Any updates on how IOS and Android software is looking come Monday? I use the NAIPS for iphone & ipad app quite a bit - is it likely to be functional when the old system drops dead?

[Shagpile]

NAIPS update has been approved by Apple. Only 80% of the features re-implemented due to the short time-frame given access to the test system. TODO are SPFIB and cancel/amend plans.

Couldn't get Apple to do an expedited review of OzRunways, so that will be a week before weather is working again in it.

[Aimpoint]

Thanks for the update Shagpile.

[Captain Garmin]

Wow NAIPS flight planning finally made it to the web. 10 years too late:*

If you get sick of the crap (but slightly improved new) ASA NAIPS Internet Service raw text interface use the AVPLAN app on Ipad or Iphone.

It's passed full ASA testing with the NAIPS briefing/plan submission changes planned this weekend.

In the 21st century systems should consolidate,link and graphically display information for us. NAIPS raw text briefing/flight planning is a poor presentation of a huge amount of information.

AVPLAN is like a good flight ops/planning department preparing you a professional customised briefing pack - without the paper!

Do yourself a favour and get a pilot productivity tool like OzR or AVPLAN , invest a little time in reading the manual and get lots of time back to go flying...

If we have to change this weekend turn it to your advantage:ok:

My 0.02c

[baswell]

Looks like NAIPS still not working - can't login via web and us App developers still can't reach the live server either.

Maybe someone should call briefing to get an updated NOTAM about the outage...

[Bevan666]

Maybe someone should call briefing to get an updated NOTAM about the outage...

Why does an updated NOTAM matter - how would anyone find out about it

:)

Edited: actually they will now. We've flicked back to the old interface:


27-Oct-2012 2102 UTC
Welcome to NAIPS

Note 1. Due to unforeseen technical issues, the NAIPS Internet Service deployment has been delayed. NAIPS web interface remains the previous Pilot Briefing Service and NAIPS for Windows software. Please contact airservices briefing office for assistance if required.

[Shagpile]

Why does an updated NOTAM matter - how would anyone find out about it

I hear Alanis Morissette is including this as a line in her next song about Irony

[morno]

I hear the TAB was paying out $0.90 on Airservices not getting the new NIS working for today, :E

So now we have all this updated software that won't work......

morno

[Shagpile]

Confirmed - they have reverted back to the old system for the next couple of days:

https://www.airservicesaustralia.com/brief/Default.asp?

[Bevan666]

Not sure what you mean there Morno - In AvPlan's case (and others too I assume) the old interface is operational and still works.

We'll wait and flick the switch over to the new interface when it is ready.

My only concern now is testing the flight plan 2012 changes, and getting that ready for the 12 of November. This delay means the time frames to get that in are even further compressed.

We've written the code, but it remains untested. Until we can test we cannot submit to Apple and have it in the hands of our customers in time. Apple approved the last update in 9 hours, and I am unsure that they are going to do it again...

Fun times, to be sure!

Bevan..

[Old Akro]

A saying involving a fist full of $50 notes and a house of ill repute comes to mind.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

NAIPS Logon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


28-Oct-2012 0025 UTC

Welcome to NAIPS

Note 1. Due to unforeseen technical issues, the NAIPS Internet Service deployment
has been delayed.

NAIPS web interface remains the previous Pilot Briefing Service and
NAIPS for Windows software.

Please contact airservices briefing office for assistance if required.

Note 2. Successful submission of all FPL will be confirmed by the receipt of a
NAIPS acceptance message. Pilots should check this message for accuracy
and retain or print a copy.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Return to Briefing Home Page

[Slugfest]

Old Mate Akro,

Why don't you give AsA a call and give them the benefit of your experience at such establishments?

:ok:

Slug

[The Butcher's Dog]

Well implemented.............really well implemented.

For all those trying to access weather, notams and submit a flight plan early this morning..........what an exercise in futility. Thank you Airservices for re-enforcing my opinion of your quality and Industry usefulness.

Ever considered sub-contracting out this service to an organisation that knows what it's doing!!!

If you were an "App" - you wouldn't get a rating!:ugh:

[Capn Bloggs]

For all those trying to access weather, notams and submit a flight plan early this morning..........what an exercise in futility.
Well, I logged on to the AsA website this morning, went to Pilot Briefing for an SPFIB Update, got the screen that said NIS had been delayed, so I thought oh well, used the "old" system and that was that.

I also note that NFW is still working.

So what's the problem? :confused:

[ChrisW67]

In case anyone is still struggling in Command Flight Planner (after assuming AsA got it right and switching) there are some instructions for switching back to the old NAIPS interface accessible from the front page of the Command Software Web site.

I share Bevan's concerns about the compressed time frame for the flight plan changes. I have it coded, customers can update their aircraft profiles in preparation, and I expect it to work but I don't have the degree of confidence I'd like.

I won't be surprised if the two change events merge into one on 11 Nov but there's been no word yet. The global go live date for the new FPL is 15 Nov, so there is little wiggle room without being exposed to international problems.

[baswell]

I imagine there may have been a time where the roll back to the old system had not yet been completed, so you couldn't use that, nor the new one.

While not an excuse, these backend systems are VERY old.

Just for a laugh: when "new NAIPS" comes online, you will be able to submit flight plans many days in advance. Although I can't remember the number, ICAO set a minimum and many ANSPs around the world have decided to only support the minimum because of storage concerns. (NOT AsA, they are allowing more!)

Yes, good chance some of them are running these systems on ancient mainframes or mini computers with storage measured in megabytes.

If it ain't broken, don't upgrade it it, I guess. :)

[Slugfest]

Current AIP ENR 1.10-16 AIP (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/aip/enroute.pdf) Time of Departure; Requirements states:

“ETSs more than 7 days in advance at the time of notification cannot be accepted”

Yes sports fans, you can submit now up to 7 days in advance and have been able to do so for years.

ICAO doc. 4444 amendment 1 ICAO 4444 amd 1 (http://www2.icao.int/en/FITS/FITSLibrary/PANS%20ATM%20Amendment.pdf) says "4.4.2.1.1 Flight plans shall not be submitted more than 120 hours before the estimated off-block
time of a flight."

[baswell]

That AIP reference seems to be in regards to filling out the paper form somehow sending that to them, but can you direct into NAIPS? I entered ETD as 291500, and this was the response:

Your flight notification as shown below has been accepted:
Flight Details:
(FPL-NOSEND-VG
-EVSS/L-V/C
-YGAW1500
-N0090A025 DCT
-YMBD0030
-REG/ABC PER/A)

(SPL-NOSEND-YGAW1500
-YMBD0030
-E/0400 P/1 R/E A/WHITE C/BAS SCHEFFERS X/0401 234 567)

Now which 1500 is that? Unless it is truncating the "29" in output only, did it accept it for today, not tomorrow?

As a side note: it seems NAIPS has stopped accepting any registrations that are not 3 letters. ("4467" resulted in "registration not known") Better 'ava word...

[baswell]

And as an anecdote: I do recall hearing an exchange between an aircraft and Parafield ground regarding a flight plan that could not be found. It had been submitted to NAIPS more than 24 hours ago...

[Jabawocky]

I have them too......

Usually because I have the date for tomorrow :ouch:

[Roger Greendeck]

I remember the debacle of the original NAIPS introduction. I guess the old rumour that NAIPS stands for Not Actually Intended to Provide a Service may have been true after all.

[ChrisW67]

Now which 1500 is that? Unless it is truncating the "29" in output only, did it accept it for today, not tomorrow?What you see in response to lodgement is the FPL message matching your flight. The current FPL message format, which is what is passed on to other ANSPs if you fly international, has no provision for plans in advance of 24 hours. It simply cannot show the date. I guess that AsA currently store the message until it is within the 24-hour window before injecting it into their live processing. BTW, The "new" NAIPS displays the same message and emails you a copy.

The new FPL message has provision for a date-of-flight that uses an Item 18 DOF/ tag in the submitted plan to indicate the date in combo with the existing ETD (renamed estimated off-blocks time EOBT). A sample message will look like:

(FPL-QFA557-IS
-A332/H-SDE2E3FGHIJ2J4J5M1RWYZ/B1D1L
-YSSY0210
-M081F400 DCT KAT A576 PKS J141 KG Q41 HAMTN Q158 PH DCT
-PBN/A1B1D1L1 NAV/GPSRNAV TCAS DOF/121031 REG/VHEBH SEL/FGAK PER/C RIF/SEVSI J141 FRT N640 AD YPAD
(I am not an expert, that is just the info AsA provided.)
AsA still have to implement a store-and-forward system because some parties (e.g. the FAA) have decided they still will not accept plans in advance of 24 hours.

[Slugfest]

Spot on ChrisW67 :ok:

Baswell,

Both the Pilot Briefing Service and NAIPS for Windows will allow you to enter 6 digit ETD in the format DDHHMM and have done so for quite a few years.

NAIPS will assume that the next instance of that DDHHMM is what you intend as the ETD and will assign a YY and MM to it to form a full 10 digit DTG for your ETD.

If you don’t include the DD in the ETD, NAIPS will also assign that as part of the process. So, if you submit a HHMM that is say 15 mins in the future, NAIPS will see that and distribute immediately. Additionally, if you submit a flight plan with an ETD that is LESS THAN 15 in the past, e.g. ETD for a time say 10 mins ago, NAIPS will immediately send that on.

However, if your ETD is GREATER than 21 hours in the future, NAIPS will store that flight plan internally and send it out to the relevant ATC systems when the ETD is LESS THAN OR EQUAL to 21 hrs. This is because the way that ATC systems process flight plan data.

One of the problems with this assumption of dates is that if the submitter sends in an ETD greater than 15 mins in the past ignorant of the current time, NAIPS will assume that the next instance of that time (i.e. tomorrow’s date but same time) and hang onto it……..and if that “next day” involves end of month and end of year dates, the error is magnified.

The acceptance message you see and have provided for NOSEND, is the actual message that is sent out over the AFTN that may go internationally as well as domestically. (AFTN Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeronautical_Fixed_Telecommunication_Network))

This is a world wide format defined by ICAO and you correctly note that the ETD is only HHMM in that message; because ICAO says so!

With ICAO 2012 flight plan changes (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/icao-flight-planning-amendment-1/) ICAO is redefining the flight plan and including a range of new equipment items and is also changing the ETD to DOF and EOBT.

ETD will be no more as it will become Estimate Off Blocks Time (EOBT) and the flight plan may include a date field called Date of Flight (DOF). From what I see of NIS, the date field has already been included in the system.

On your question of 3 letter rego….”ABC” is not your aircraft rego…..”VHABC” is. When you submit details, NAIPS does quick check of rego against type with information sourced from the avcharges section and will present advice if it does not marry up. Hit the submit button again to force through the plan.

[baswell]

and if that “next day” involves end of month and end of year dates, the error is magnified.
That's only an issue if you include a day, in which case a month should be added. In any other case, tomorrow is tomorrow - month or year boundaries have no effect. Unless, of course, this function is implemented by a heroic programmer who thinks they can come up with this themselves; lazy programmers like me just do "dateObject.add(Calendar.DAY, 1)".

The new API requires us to send a full, valid date string, not DTG. (e.g.: '2012-10-29T10:43:00.000') Since we still want to accept DTG in NAIPS for iPhone, that means we have to parse this and take care of this roll-over handling ourselves.

[Bevan666]

We get to have another go on Thursday morning! Yay!

31 October 2012 (1100UTC- 1800UTC): Airservices new NAIPS Internet Service (NIS) will be released. This will see the decommissioning of NAIPS for Windows and Scheduler and the retirement of AIS/MET. Main changes will include the look and feel of the user interface and improved functionality. Further information is available at Airservices Pilot Briefing Services | Airservices (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/projects/naips-project/)

:bored:

[Slugfest]

ymmm c6464/12
electronic briefing and submission of flt notifications not avbl
due naips internet service (nis) installation and commissioning

the flw facilities not avbl:
-internet briefing and flt notification submission
-avfax/metbrief
-operational information via flightwatch
-stored flt files held in naips
-internet met and notam briefing fm the aismet system

the flw facilities are avbl:
-phoneaway card phone and fax submission of flt notifications 1800
805 150
-bureau of meteorology aviation weather briefing at
Aviation Weather Services (http://www.bom.gov.au/aviation)

flight notifications held as naips files with an etd prior to 1800utc
should be lodged before 1000utc
from 10 311100 to 10 311800

[Capn Bloggs]

Looking forward to a "new feel" at an 0415 preflight prep... :}

[ChrisW67]

Happy happy joy joy! ;)

[Aimpoint]

I can't find the NOTAM anywhere, has it been withdrawn? I have noticed a lot of weird things happening while using NAIPS over the last couple of days. For example, NOTAMs showing up on a location briefing, but not a SPFIB for the same aerodrome.

[Slugfest]

NAIPS Location Brief for YMMM and change the default period to 50 hrs (default is 24 and it can go out to 240.

SPFIB is the same, default is 24hrs but can go out to 240 if you tell it to.

AIS/MET system does not filter on time.

[baswell]

Well, "NIS" is live.

But for now it seems they forgot one tiny little detail. Their firewall is rejecting calls to the URLs our Apps need to be using. While they tried the roll-out on Saturday, I noticed this and warned them that still needed to be done. 5 days later...

So no AvPlan/NAIPS for iPhone/OzRunways access until they wake up and find someone to fix it.

Our contacts are not answering their phones, if anyone knows a contact for Margaret Staib, feel free to let her know your displeasure. :)

[ChrisW67]

The same lack of access, and lack of ability to do anything about it from this end, applies to Command Flight Planner as well.

[baswell]

Update: we've made contact, they are working on it!

[Aimpoint]

Man, it's slow to use. Especially loading saved SPFIBs and notifications...

Or maybe more than usual numbers are trying it out at the moment.

[ChrisW67]

At the moment we would accept slow through our client software ;)

[kalavo]

Yikes! Did they even test this?

When it's not saying "In progress..."

It's saying "NAIPS has an encountered an error, try logging out, restarting your browser, getting a coffee, come back and repeat the steps..." (only to get the same error)

[ChrisW67]

C6505/12 REVIEW C6504/12

ELECTRONIC BRIEFING AND SUBMISSION OF FLT NOTIFICATIONS VIA PHONE AND
FAX MAY EXPERIENCE DELAYS FOLLOWING THE NAIPS INTERNET SERVICE (NIS)
INSTALLATION AND COMMISSIONING
THE FLW FACILITIES ARE LIMITED:
-INTERNET BRIEFING
-FLT NOTIFICATION SUBMISSION VIA PHONE OR FAX
-AVFAX/METBRIEF
-STORED FLT FILES HELD IN NAIPS
THE FLW FACILITIES ARE AVBL:
-PHONEAWAY CARD PHONE AND FAX SUBMISSION OF FLT NOTIFICATIONS 1800
805 150
-BUREAU OF METEOROLOGY AVIATION WEATHER BRIEFING AT
WWW.BOM.GOV.AU/AVIATION (http://WWW.BOM.GOV.AU/AVIATION)
FROM 10 312048 TO 11 012030 EST

[blueloo]

What a complete pile of dog****e this is. I used to have direct weather links for Syd, Mel etc on my bookmarks, and being a basic text format briefing it would appear very quickly -even with dodgy Internet connections...and there was no need to login.


Now...login, wait, wait wait, error MSG, wait wait wait....then hey presto, what took 1 sec under the old system, now takes 3 or 4 mins...just for a TTf and ATIS. What cra...p.

[717tech]

Getting the same error. Interesting that the NOTAM directs you to the BOM site albeit a broken link. Hasn't there been several topics regarding the legalities of obtaining a briefing from BOM vs ASA?

[Creampuff]

Standard Government IT/software Project Risk Management Plan.

Risk: New system won’t work properly

Mitigation: Roll it out anyway and fix it ‘live’. We get paid the same despite the disruption and aggravation for users.

Risk: New system won’t be as useful as the previous system

Mitigation: Roll it out anyway. We get paid the same despite the reduction in utility.
:ugh:

[blueloo]

Why do I need to login for weather info, if I am not submitting a plan...is this the precursor to charging for a crap service?

[David75]

baswell: has ASA explained why they couldn't parallel run the old and new systems?

Seems odd to me.

[ChrisW67]

fpvdude: During testing (when that was accessible) we found that it did not take much for a lodged plan to be shuttled off into a human-attention-required queue. The user was told the plan had been accepted but it would not show in their active plans list so could not accessed to amend or cancel. If the human attention requires using the new web interface...

The melting server at AsA has stopped my support phone from melting but the situation is "suboptimal".

David75: The only answer I got when I broached the topic was, "that's not possible."

[Two_dogs]

Melting server all right ...

I've been trying to add groups and users to our login this morning and I would suspect that is what the rest of Australia is also doing ...

Might have to wait a while and try at stupid o'clock when the server is not being hammered.

[megle2]

NAIPS project team could always contact the Qld Health Dept as they have real time experience at perfecting major IT stuff ups

[oi cant]

Thanks god I'm on RDO's! I logged on to have a look at the new wizz-bang system and was very disappointed to see how much, In Progress....... and NAPIS has sh!t itself messages there were. :ugh:

Will ASA pull the same backflip and go back to NAIPS for Windows before days end?

[rioncentu]

I thought I would be smart and get my plan in under the old system yesterday for a flight this morning. Tower had no record of the plan but Censar did have a sartime.

I expected to be on the phone forever trying to cancel and submit sartimes this morning for the plan but to their credit, Flightwatch answered even quicker than the often do.

Let's let the dust settle and see what comes out at the end.

BAS - In theory will your old NAIPS APP still work when it's all sorted? Or will there be a new one?

[ChrisW67]

In theory will your old NAIPS APP still work when it's all sorted? Or will there be a new one?
All 3rd party applications that talk to NAIPS will need to be (have been) modified/upgraded.

A short time ago the interfaces used by Command Flight Planner, AvPlan, Oz Runways etc. started responding although they are suffering the same intermittent and slow performance as the AsA web site is.

[baswell]

OzRunways and NAIPS for iOS require a new version. We just hit the release button on both of them and they are making their way to an App Store near you as we speak. May take a while to appear in your updates list.

No real reason given about the reason for being unable to run in parallel; other than that there are also updates to the NAIPS back-end being made.

Of course in IT nothing is impossible, but these systems are old and I am sure they did a cost/benefit/risk analysis of doing even more work to enable this and decided not to.

[kalavo]

Any word on when third party apps will start working again?

Still no joy with Champagne

[ChrisW67]

Command Flight Planner (v6.7) is up and running with the following caveat: it suffers the same slow response time and request timeout problems as you currently see through Airservices Australia's new web interface.

[Captahab]

Works fine in Champagne after you tell it to use the "new" naips, no noticeable difference in speed :ok:

[baswell]

NAIPS for iOS has been released ok to the App Store and can be updated.

OzRunway ... for me the App Store is f***ed up. Basically, it appears on the updates list, but it is showing 2.9.2 (the previous version) and so you can't download 2.9.3. It knows there is an update, but it won't give it to you.

Great work, Apple.

Hope some caches start clearing soon and it becomes available.

UPDATE: Seems to be working now.

[mnehpets]

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY, AFTER X PERSON-YEARS OF DEVELOPMENT OF NIS, AIRSERVICES STILL HASN'T DISCOVERED lower case characters YET?

- s

[kalavo]

Because most pilots are going deaf thanks to years around aircraft engines, they figure they need to shout for us to hear them ;)

[Bevan666]

AvPlan is up and going, and I had an email from Command saying it is going too. OzR/NAIPS for iOS have an update to install, but it looks like its still processing through the release to app store stage (which takes sometime an hour or so)

[flightlevel1]

Hi guys..

I just updated both my iphone and ipad with the latest versions of NAIPS for iphone... 0740 z ...

I have also updated my username and password on NAIPS primary airservices website, as well as on both entry points for ipad and iphone..

Each time I log on on either device (dispite numerous reboots of said devices) I get an error message saying that I've used an invalid username or password..

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! :ugh::ugh:

Help!!... Perhaps I should just take a big fat chill pill and wait for this storm to blow over... Am I being unrealistic?

Any suggestions (other than strong medication) would be appreciated!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:....:ok:

[baswell]

Looks like it is all business as usual again with NAIPS for iPhone and OzRunways.

NAIPS is still missing some functionality that we didn't get out in time. Mainly SPFIBS and update/cancel plan. Working on it.

People are asking for the restricted area briefing. The problem with that one is that Airservices has stopped providing one to us despite the fact that they have it on their own site. They have promised to give it to us "in a future update", but no given time frame. So if you really want this sooner rather than later, feel free to send them a courteous email asking to prioritise this. :ok:

[Mail-man]

Anyone else having no luck this morning? Naips app and airservices website all error messages or "incorrect password". Mac and PC. Thanks to the lovely girls at briefing, we all know it's been a tough few days.

[baswell]

Did you add "asa" after your 4-digit PIN?

Why they couldn't put the need for that in

BIG FRIENDLY LETTERS

on the website instead of a small font, is a bit of a mystery to me. Or just do when we do: automatically add it to the end when someone tries to use a 4-digit PIN...

[Mail-man]

Yeah, updated my password yesterday, tried all 3. (old, +asa, new). Finally have the ipad app working but asa website is still useless...

[ChrisW67]

The addition of 'asa' to existing four-letter passwords is "announced" on the login page of the NIS web site and in the user guide. I certainly agree that it could certainly be more prominent.

The rules for lengthening your old password if it was not 4 characters can be found in AIC H32/12. http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/aip/current/sup/a12-h32.pdf

[kalavo]

Ugh. This dying every second page due to server load is unbearable.

[Slugfest]

Techs advised that at 1620K BNE time Friday arvo, they made some changes to the NAIPS Server and that has 90% resolved the performance and logon issues (other stuff requires a complete shutdown and restart which will happen on 10 Nov with the ICAO Flight Plan 2012 update)

From what I have seen since late Friday afternoon is that NIS is responding quite quickly.

If you had problems up until then, try again now is all I'm sayin'...

[baswell]

Yes sports fans, you can submit now up to 7 days in advance and have been able to do so for years.

http://i.imgur.com/mUHQh.png

http://i.imgur.com/LIMAp.png

Just sayin'...

[Slugfest]

Good On Ya Baswell!:ok:.

IF you bothered to cross check the date of my post with the THEN current AIP you would have found my "7 days" reference to be correct....

AIP page ENR 1.10-16 Time of Departure Requirements...

"Provide an ETD for every flight stage as DDHHMM.
ETDs more than 7 days in advance at the time of
notification cannot be accepted."

NOW if you read the AIP current from 15 NOV where the ICAO Amd 1 to Doc 4444 changes have been incorporated....

AIP page ENR 1.10-18 Estimated Off Block Time Requirements...

"EOBT/DOF more that 120 hours (5 Days) in advance of the time of notification cannot be accepted."

...and further more, if you read NOTAM last week, you would have seen a specific NOTAM in relation to this very topic.

but you already knew ALLLLLLLLL this huh....... :hmm:

....just sayin'

[baswell]

Well, apologies for interpreting your original comment as "it's 7 days now and going to stay that way regardless of the ICOA requirements". :)