window shades

[dfish]

I've noticed that airlines now make you close the window shades during takeoff and landing, why is this necessary?

[cyflyer]

Never heard of that. What airlines ? One of the pleasures of sitting at the window is to enjoy the TO and landing. I would not accept that ruling.

[Alex757]

I thought it was the opposite ... every flight I've ever been on they insist they are up for to and landing ... (not that you would want them shut anyway :) )

[dfish]

My niece just returned from Europe and used a few differant airlines and they all requested passengers to close blinds. She flew Air Transat from Toronto to Rome.

[cyflyer]

So is anyone going to enlighten us less illuminated as to the reasons of this new absurdity ?

[lenhamlad]

It is not new and this has been discussed on other threads before.

[cyflyer]

It is not new and this has been discussed on other threads before

Well, having just swotted through some past window shade threads, the general consensus there is that the window shades are requested to be OPEN during TO and landing, because, its safer for people and CC to actually see what is going on outside in case of things going pear shaped.

[Server too busy]

In the 787 you won't have a choice. It will be whatever the cabin crew decide. End of story. :*

[Field In Sight]

I always thought they were required to be open, so that in case of a rejected take off due to a fire, the cabin crew would be able to see which side and the severity of it.

[betterfromabove]

Seen AF do it on eastbound flights to Asia.

One spectacular Spring dawn as flew over snow-bound Balkans starting taking photos from window seat, was told by noxious CC to shut window and go to sleep. I wasn't aware I'd spent £500 to travel Air Rendition or Nanny Airways. I was stunned. Notably, the two people sat to me were also wide awake and couldn't care less, in fact were staring out the window too. And it was light outside for crissakes.

There are a dozen things that keep people awake on a flight and open windows is the least of your worries (children screaming, people yelling, trollies bashing, announcements, etc etc).

Yet ANOTHER reason to never fly AF again.

Clearly was CC just wanting to "subdue" cabin. Pretty selfish and futile. They could have just handed out melatonin and whisky.

[The Ancient Geek]

In less stable parts of the world closed blinds are standard for night departures and arrivals because trigger happy locals find it easier to target brightly illuminated targets.

The security theatre has adopted this practice in some areas.

[dfish]

I wonder if it has anything to do with safety, closing blinds at night make the aircraft less visible from a ground threat, but landing lights and strobes make that a moot point! Closing them closed during the day makes no scense

[dfish]

Canada and Western Europe are pretty stable...........

[Evey_Hammond]

I was told that the blinds are closed to allow passengers' eyes to acclimatise and be able to observe the led's on the floor which, in the event of an emergency, will indicate where to exit the plane. Dunno how true that is...?

[lomapaseo]

Having just flown several legs on domestic airlines across the US I can tell you that they asked for the shades to be closed only while on the ground, to assist the temperature control on hot sunny days. During takeoff and landing at least some shades were required to be open in case of emergency.

[BobnSpike]

Open for takeoff and landing to view outside environment in an emergency. I have seen some variation between all shades open and exit seat shades only.

Reduction if visual signature for self protection? Maybe in some of the more unsettled areas of the world, but if so it is the exception, not the rule. It is certainly not beyond the realm of possibility, but considering the visual and noise footprint of an arriving or departing airplane, the utility of this is questionable.

I have also heard the request to close the shades on long range flights.

It is pretty standard during summer months to hear requests to close shades before deplaning (as well as turning off reading lights and opening Wemacs, gaspers, air vents, punkah louvres, whatever) to help keep the cabin cool at the gate.

I have never heard of a requirement to close the shades for takeoff and landing. Perhaps Mr. Fisher innocently misunderstood the request. Either that or he flies in and out of Somalia and/or Chechnya a lot.

[dfish]

if you read my post Bob you would see it was a flight from Toronto to Rome and then through W. Euro. She flies back tonight on Air Transat, I'll let you know what happens

[SHortshaft]

I have been told, and have been telling people for years, that the blinds should be open for take-off and landing so that in the event of a mishap the Crash Rescue people can see inside the cabin, by looking through the windows, to determine if there are people alive that need rescuing.

This seems to be logical, and if my memory serves me well, was as a direct result of an accident some 20+ years (maybe 30+ years ago) where the crash crews could not see in, because the blinds were closed, people were not rescued in a timely manner and lives were deemed to have been lost as a result.

[bigjames]

i think all aboard need to have some sort of situational awareness, even if most pax don't understand what that is. go to the post about the collision at barcelona where pax saw the whole thing (even if the captain ignored it). i would demand to get off a flight if all pax were told to close blinds on takeoff and landing. seriously!

[TightSlot]

Folks - Our Forum FAQ has quite a bit on this subject: Please consider taking a look before continuing.

My niece just returned from Europe and used a few differant airlines and they all requested passengers to close blinds.

I'm not certain how, where or why, but I sense some sort of misunderstanding going on - This is not normal practise on any airline that I have flown on or am aware of during take-off or landing.

[PositiveClimbGearUp]

Recently on a long-haul night flight (Qantas LHR-SIN) all pax were asked to close the blinds an hour or so after take off. The staff made quite a big deal of it, just as they would when ensuring they were open for landing. On the return flight, also at night, there was no such request and many blinds remained open. Any particular reason for this?

[Hartington]

The cynic in me can't help wondering if crews find they get less hassle if the blinds are down and everyone is encouraged to sleep.

[TightSlot]

The cynic in me can't help wondering if crews find they get less hassle if the blinds are down and everyone is encouraged to sleep.
So how do we win? Pull shades down and the response is this, leave them up and the complaints roll in. Shades down we're lazy, shades up and the complaints roll in.

It's a serious question - How do we win? - What should we do?

[Hartington]

I think you're correct Tightslot, you can't win.

The particular incident that I was part of that makes me suggest the possibility was on a daylight transatlantic flight when a crew member reached from the aisle, past me to the window (using a tray as a reach extender) and closed the blind by my seat. No "excuse me", no "would you please" and, from memory, no previous annoucment on the PA. The reaction when I immediately reopened the blind was like a schoolchild who had been caught. Why would you close the blinds on a daylight flight at a time when everyone was wide awake and then (as that crew did) disappear?

It's an emotive issue. It's also one of these things that is inconsistent not only across airlines but even with a given airline which suggests to me that when it happens it is crew initiated rather than airline policy otherwise I would expect that within a given airline a consistent policy would emerge.

[easyflyer83]

Long flights can become incredibly boring for crew and so the 'get them all to sleep' theory doesn't always hold water. Believe it or not most (sure, not all) crew aim to please the passenger. From experience, passengers can start getting restless and irritable if cabin service takes a while and as a consequence the lights are still on and when the lights are turned down, the closing of the window shades facilitates a passengers rest.

On various forums I have found the protests of enthusiasts to be very selfish and the subject is usually only emotive when it comes to that community. This in itself suggests that the vast majority of passengers would rather do something that helps achieve a restful flight for themselves and others.

In the AF situation as mentioned by Hartington, if I was the crew member I would have asked him politely to pull his window blind down as this would give him the opportunity to enquire why he was being told to do so. If he then chose to open it again, I'd tell him to close it again.....albeit in a polite manner.

On all the long haul flights I've flown on as a passenger the window blinds have only been closed if sunlight will disturb rest. i.e if a flight leaves HKG at Midnight and arrives into LHR at 0500 in Winter then theres not really much point in closing the blinds as it's dark all the way. Perhaps this is what happened on another posters return from SIN where as the outbound flight requested the blinds were closed as sunlight would restrict rest.

[Dairyground]

In less stable parts of the world closed blinds are standard for night departures and arrivals because trigger happy locals find it easier to target brightly illuminated targets.


I have long suspected that dimming cabin lights for take-off and landing was originally inspired by similar concerns. It has been common practice for a long time, but the first time I recall it happening was on a Lufthansa flight into Munich some time around 1975. At this distance I cannot pin down the exact year, but it was diring the height of the Bader-Meinhof terrorism in Germany.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Many years as SLF and following is always consistent across all carriers travelled.

1) T/O and Landing day or night blinds open
2) Announcements to close blinds when departure at night eastwards and arriving in an hour or so after service ends into bright daylight with a substantial part of flight to go. Announcements clear and crisp stating this is to allow passengers to sleep.
3) Never had anyone except a passenger next to me insist I close the blind on a short haul, all daylight or daytime departure flight. He insisted as it was reflecting of his IFE.

I think when the lady lands back at Toronto any misunderstanding would be cleared so waiting to hear about that.

[Hotel Tango]

Although I comply, to keep the peace, I don't personally like the shades down westbound on a day flight, with the exception of the port side of the a/c which may have the Sun pouring in. Agree that CC can't win either way. It's one of these problems with no just solution.

[LondonPax]

The way the CC can win is to have a sensibly policy that is applied consistently and explained to pax. On the many long haul flight I have been on I have never heard an explanation, and application is inconsistent.

Personally, on a long-haul night flight, I'm waiting for the cabin lights to be off and everyone to settle down. It's right that the blinds be shut in that situation to allow maximum time for sleeping. But on a day flight (e.g. BA NRT to LHR, departs around noon Japan time, arrives around 3pm London time), why should the blinds be shut? Sometimes the CC go around shutting the blinds, sometimes they don't. Some people sleep for some or all of the flight, some don't. That's a day flight, pax can entertain themselves by reading a book or watching IFE. Personally, if I slept during that flight, it would make the jetlag even worse. Of course, everyone is different, and you have to allow for peoples' body clocks to be in different time zones, but anyone who wants to sleep on a day flight can wear an eye mask while the rest of us try to algin our body clocks with our destination.

Having said that, if I'm clearly the only one with the blind open, I'll shut it. And if another pax asked me to shut the blind so they could sleep, I would.

[Lizz]

I always assumed blinds up for take off and landing so that whatever is outside is also the same light inside in case there is an emergency you're used to the lighting. If blinds were down during the day, you're going to be dazzled going outside, vice versa when the lights are dimmed on a night flight.
I did a cabin crew course at college - my tutor was ex BA long haul crew and that was the reason she gave.

I have heard of cabin crew turning the heat up to get pax to sleep. Some can't be bothered, same with any job I suppose :rolleyes:

Someone mentioned the emergency lighting on the floor, that stuff is USELESS!!! I have to point it out!
I've doned (spelling?) a smoke hood, been in a cabin full of (albeit fake) smoke and in the dark and honestly it's nothing more than a faint glow.
In the panic of everything else I don't trust these to help and always make sure I know where to go beforehand.

[easyflyer83]

I have heard of cabin crew turning the heat up to get pax to sleep. Some can't be bothered, same with any job I suppose

There are plenty of myths regarding the temperature level, be it low or high. I guess some crews do crank the heat up but most passengers on a night flight want to sleep and so is facilitating that really that bad and why does it have to be seen as the lazy option? As i explained before, once service is complete crews have a lot of down time on night flights and there isn't really much they can do regardless of whether passengers are asleep or not. A few more call bells may go off if people are awake but other than that it tends not to make too much difference.

Someone mentioned the emergency lighting on the floor, that stuff is USELESS!!! I have to point it out!
I've doned (spelling?) a smoke hood, been in a cabin full of (albeit fake) smoke and in the dark and honestly it's nothing more than a faint glow.
In the panic of everything else I don't trust these to help and always make sure I know where to go beforehand.

They aren't designed to be like Blackpool illuminations. Be it illuminous strips or 'hard' lighting there is enough there to help. They are primarily there for the scenario where you are on your hands and knees under the smoke and despite the senario undoubtedly being chaotic and potentially horiffic, it would probably help to varying degrees.

As for the blinds themselves. Open for take off and landing so that the outside conditions can be assessed in the event of an evacuation and it also helps the emergency services assess conditions inside the cabin.

[givemewings]

Sometimes I ask pax to close blinds if the light is ruining the IFE of other passengers, or the main airshow screen. It can also be fine for the pax, but reflection off the wings can be right at CC eye level when doing the service. Standing squinting over the bar cart is not a good look :}

The only time I would reach over someone to close a blind is when the rest are closed and the light coming in is unbearably bright and the person is asleep.

Sometimes the crew seem to close the blinds 'early' because it's better to do it all at once than wait til service is over and half the pax might be asleep. Now aircraft with electric window shades solve this problem... crew can override for t/o/landing and any other time it's required. Pax can still adjust shades except during t/o and landing...

[occasional]

The whole argument seems rather strange for it is presumably technically safer to fly with the blinds open, as it enables the passengers to point out an engine fire to the crew - something which is apparently not an unknown occurence.

[Peter47]

I've had one cabin crew member who got upset when I slightly opened a blind to look out whilst at the same time trying to shield the light for my fellow pax but I suspect that she was a jobsworth. Most are understanding. Don't peole ask for a window seat so that they can look outside? (Its not for easy access to the loo.)

I don't see the 787 windows being a plus point as some regulation will tell the CC to override the pax's individual controls during cruise and if you like watching the world go by from your window - tough.

I seem to recall that tridents had tinted shades so that you could still look out when the sun was shining.

Iomapaseo mentions pulling the shades down to make the cabin cooler on the ground. I got on a KLM 737 at AMS during the recent warm weekend and it does make a difference.

I know that BA dims its lights for landing & take off at night - I believe that it is so that you can see better case of an evaculation (unless you have the reading light on) but it does make seeing things out of the window at night a lot easier.

It used to be that airlines wanted window blinds to be closed was so that the IFE could be seen better before the days of individual screens. I've heard it said taht one reason that Wardair did not fit IFE to its aircraft was because a lot of passengers liked their blinds open but the person who told be that liked her blind open!