Aircraft Maitance Engineering

[newhorizon]

I am planning on studying Aircraft Maintenance Engineer and eventually becoming an LAE.
I am going to a University in the uk which has a partnership with the International Centre for Aerospace Training (ICAT) that delivers the EASA training elements. This means that I can achieve a licence with two years practical experience instead of five,when all elements of Part 66/Part-147 are met and fully complied with.

In this Uni I will be studying the Airframe licence and after I have completed the modules I will need to work for 20 weeks before I can reduce my practical exp needed from 5 years to 2.

What I would like to know is if anyone here can give me any of their experiences on this profession. What are the wages also? I am a British citizen So will ge the EASA license and work there.

Am i right in assuming that i can get the type rating after I finish my training? If so how much does it cost to get type rated in say a B747, A320 and so on?

Also I have read a few posts in this forum and confused about one thing!

What is OJT? What does it stand for ?


Thanks for the help!

[Capot]

OJT means On the Job Training.

OJT in an EASA Part 66 Basic Training course is an integral part of the course, along with classroom study and Module examinations as per the Part 147-approved programme, and Practical Training also as per the Approved course.

OJT must be arranged, structured and monitored by the Part 147-approved organisation that is delivering the Basic Training course, by means of a contract with a Part 145-approved Maintenance Organisation where the OJT will be carried out. The training must cover every area of the aircraft, and the trainee must be assessed by properly qualified and authorised assessors.

In your case ICAT is responsible for making sure that this happens, as a part of the course.

You should make sure that this is what you are going to get. Some Part 147-approved Training Organisations, and the Colleges they "lend" their approvals to to provide an EASA Basic Training Certificate outcome (as well as a BTech or whatever) operate what is nothing short of a scam, by selling what appears to be the full course, and then telling students they must arrange their own OJT. The UK CAA have tended to connive at this; perhaps they still do.

The outcome of a Part 147-approved Basic Training course is an EASA Basic Training Certificate in the Category of the examinations you have passed. That can only be issued after completion of the full course, ie including the OJT.

The Basic Training Certificate then forms part of your documentation when you apply for your licence after completion of the required work experience (2 years for a B1.1). Only when you have the full licence is it worth getting a type rating.

Do not confuse OJT with work experience.

OJT is structured, monitored and assessed training, with an instructor, carried out on live aircraft.

Work experience is experience obtained as a working mechanic under supervision, not training, which you carefully record in a verified logbook as evidence that you have done it.

Good Luck!

[docs]

Speaking from experience:

Firstly, You will only get the reduction

-if you pass all the modules within the timeframe (3 Years) and
-your attendance is above a certain threshold (over 90%)
-YOU GET 20 WEEKS OF EXPERIENCE WHILST STUDYING.
It is very unlikely that a part-147 organisation will accept you for work experience in the UK. So you should ensure you can get this otherwise you will need 5 years experience.

If you don't meet any of the critirea, The College will refuse you the Course completion Cetificate that you need to reduce the experience time and you will be left with only the modules (assuming you passed)

Then you will only need to find a mechnic job to get OJT (On the Job Training, basically means working, paid or unpaid)

There is alot of competition for mechnic jobs from people who have graduated from the BSc (with or without) so chances of getting a job in the UK are very slim. Mechanic jobs pay around 17-25K.

Provided you work for 2 or 5 years (depending if you get the course certificate or not) you will have a basic B1 licence. This is useless in itself as you need to do a type course to be an engineer. Type Training is usually provided by the company (if you are lucky) when needed and can last upto 3-6 months. or you can pay for your own training for upto £5-10k.

Only then you can be a B1 licenced Engineer, earning around 30-40K.

Don't be drawn into it by the glossy marketing literature of the uni/college and promises of a licence in 5 years. 5years is the minimum if everything goes your way and you find a job.

Also keep in mind that the BSc itself is almost worth zero in the maintenance industry without the licence modules.

You would be better off getting an apprenticeship with an employer if you really want to do the practical jobs. You could have an A licence, with the experience and no debt.

Or do the BEng and get a degree thats worth alot more and will get you into design/planning maintenance etc.

Sorry for the long post but you should have the facts in front of you before deciding.

Having said that don't be put off if you have already made you mind up.

[newhorizon]

Nah docs ty for you help

Has cleared a lot of questions I had!

Ty once again

Just one thing.

Is there any way to make it easier for yourself to get the OJT and the 20 weeks training?

Or is it just impossible to get it at least for the time being? The main reason I did this over the apprenticeship is because currently it is hard to get one :{

Hopefully in 3 years things will change.

[docs]

The only way is to ask around/ use your connections. Offer to pay for your airside pass etc, also it might help if you already pass the fuel tank safety and human factors course (£150) as these are essential to be able to work on any aircraft. PS: These are not the same as module 9, its a separate one-day or online course.

Good Luck

[newhorizon]

kk ty for ur advice :)

[TURIN]

Also, stop using test speak. Most of the licensed guys, who you will need to deal with, are well over 40 years old and tend to frown on it.

I agree with the above, try and get on an apprenticeship. BA are recruiting between 100 and 120 each year ongoing.

Good luck. :ok:

[yotty]

What TURIN Said! Plus, please get into the habit of using unambiguous, concise, intelligible English! You will be expected to use it and understand it. :ok:

[newhorizon]

I will avoid using textspeak from now on. My English is fine. This is what you get when the younger generation are busy texting 24/7 :P. Frankly, I was just being lazy. Will avoid that in the future!

[markinn]

GM 66.A.30 (a)
Experience requirements:
Meaning of “maintenance experience on operating aircraft”.
Purpose. Such experience may be combined with approved training.

Does it mean that practical part of Part-147 B1.1 basic training course that is conducted in Part-145 maintenance organization and lasted 6 months may be considered as practical maintenance expirience on operating aircraft in order to apply for initial AML either A or B cat. so that for A cat. license I need to gain 6 months more or 1,5 year more for B1.1.?

[lowfat]

Whilst I appreciate you would like to obtain your license in 2 years I would think long and hard about the consequences of your actions.

As a licensed engineer you alone are certifying some thing fit for purpose, say an air conditioning system on a 737.
The ramifications of something going wrong can be fatal and also involve a prison sentence.There is a LAE in jail in Cyprus now after the Helios Airways crash.After the court decided he was culpable for the position of a pilot operated switch.

5 years of experience is your safety net to prevent such unfortunate occurrences.

[capitaine flam]

My recent experience may help you to decide.

I am a mature student and have just completed a Foundation Degree in Aircraft Maintenance Engineering at Macclesfield College. I am topping up to a BSc in September and will probably continue with a part time Masters in Aeronautical Engineering later on down the line at Manchester Uni for my own satisfaction. The Foundation Degree covers a great amount of info, enough to complete several modules and do the exams for them. I will have to do more self-study to complete the remaining modules. However, what you will be studying at ICAT or Barry College I assume, is similar to what Kingston University is offering. I have a friend who is starting the second year at Kingston and I understand that you study all the modules and take your exams there.

The point is that you will study all the modules and take the exams and do some OJT, but there is NO GUARANTEE of actual work experience and placement or a license handed to you on a plate. The course basically gives you everything but the complete experience required to apply for a license. According to the CAA's Engineer's Licensing Guidance Document, with a BSc, you can pass all the Part-66 modules and " must have at least 3 years experience in a civil aircraft maintenance environment including 6 months of observation of base maintenance tasks." in order to apply for a C license. For a B1 or B2 license, you need to pass the Part-66 modules, and complete an approved Part 147 training course plus two years experience on live aircraft. If you do not have the opportunity to complete a Part 147 approved course, then the experience becomes 5 years. Please download the above Licensing document from the CAA website. All the information is on it.

If you work very hard and come out with good grades, you will have a better chance of being taken on by a Part 145 organisation connected with ICAT.

But before you sigh of disappointment, what I have discovered in this highly closed-door industry (because MRO is indeed a closed-door industry) is that if you are young enough, an apprenticeship is definitely one option. On the other hand, if you can complete a Foundation Degree and then perhaps top it up with a BSc, you will have more opportunity to go into management as well as get a license. So it does give you more career routes.

Another poster pointed out earlier in this thread that one cannot get work placements and work experience with a Part 145 maintenance organisation the UK. THIS IS NOT TRUE. I am currently doing a work placement on line maintenance (and some hangar work) at Manchester airport for the second summer running. The engineers there have been great and really helpful in getting my logbook filled in. I am not getting paid and I am doing it part time as I have to look after children. I wrote in with a CV (a good one) and explained what I was trying to achieve and my goals and asked if I could be let to get some experience. I offered to pay for my airside pass and any other expenses. I have made sure I have turned up with the right PPE. My offer to pay for my airside pass was declined and the company paid for it.

Unfortunately for me, I have not completed an approved Part 147 Basic course, so I have yet to do the hand skills such as wire locking etc, and hopefully this will take place this coming year at the college as a course is being put on for this. But I have replaced tyres and such jobs which has been nice to do and put in the log book. My work experience required will be at least 3 years for a C license and 5 for a B license as I have not done an approved Part 147 course. However, I am told by the Part 145 organisation I am working at the moment that my summer placements should count towards the years, so I may have less than I think to complete.

Also, as mentioned, you can go onto the CAA website and download the Aircraft Maintenance Engineer License Document which explains in very fine details exactly what you need to do exam wise and experience wise. It also explains what you can get credited with if you do a degree rather than an apprenticeship. As also mentioned by another poster, download CAP 741 off the CAA website which tells you all that you need to do.

And finally, I recommend that you build up your contacts and keep asking around you for work experience and placements. Don't give up just because you have been turned down once or twice. If you keep at it and really work for it, I am confident that you can achieve what you want. Don't listen to other people's negative statements about how you can't do this, that and the other. I have made sure that I didn't and went ahead and contacted everyone I could at Manchester and it paid off. Be professional in your appearance and demonstrate competence in your actions even if you are quite new to it all. Get involved in areas such as local aerodromes or aircraft restoration groups if there are any in your area. You'll meet more people and veterans who will hopefully be able to help you.

I have come across a number of individuals who frankly, were I an employer, I would never take on in my hangar. And often they are the ones who tell you how you can't achieve things. Don't give them the time of day. On the other hand, I have come across some fantastic people, both at college and in the industry, who have been absolute gems and have really helped, out of a goodwill to help others. There are many people like that, just make sure you find them!

Just as a final note, I have worked 20 years in a field which has absolutely no connection to aircraft and aviation. I have only entered this field a couple of years ago after being in a position to finally study this, it having been my childhood job of choice. Had I listened to all the negatives, I would have quit by now. I am too old for apprenticeships and decided that a degree on top of it would give me the edge. I got onto the first lot of work placement before I knew the workings of a jet engine or how a hydraulic system worked (I hadn't got to that point in my course yet) and every bit of experience really helped and paid off. This time around, with the second work placement this summer I am getting even more out of it.

So do your research, download the CAA docs that you need and start talking to people! (And I mean talking face to face, NOT through texts or internet. REAL, LIVE COMMUNICATION! THAT IS THE BEST WAY!)

[capitaine flam]

Just as an additional note. Whether a BSc in aircraft maintenance engineering is worth 0 or not in the maintenance industry is quite irrelevant if your course is an accredited course by the RAeS or IET. Although in real terms the modules studied and passed are paramount for a maintenance license together with the experience, if you have an accredited BSc or BEng, you can move onto Masters and become an Incorporated or Chartered Engineer eventually in whichever engineering discipline you choose to specialize in. This gives you that extra route or career prospect to fall back on. Management jobs in maintenance organisations or Part M outfit are extremely well paid.

After speaking to a number of licensed engineers which I have come to know, and who are currently on that job, a number of them have said that by not having a degree, the prospect of promotion can be limited. And sometimes, after doing the same job for 20 or 30 years, some wouldn't have minded going up the ladder so to speak, for better salary.

But each to their own on this. It depends on what you want to do really. I like the idea of having both to fall back on: Licensed engineer as well as graduate engineer with a Masters under my belt for the future.

[500 above]

The engineer of Helios fame is infact in jail in Greece, not Cyprus. Not for much longer, I hope.

[newhorizon]

thanks for the advice capitaine