Engineering or piloting

[x-boy]

Hi,

So I've just completed my aerospace degree (MEng) in the UK hoping as everyone does to work in space, designing jets or even just aircraft. Well I knew jobs were hard to come by, but being a foreign student means that they're just not hiring cause of the cost of sponsoring a visa.

The US seems even worse. So I figured my options were to do another masters in the US and wiggle my way in or try to. But then I could end up interning without getting a job because of sponsorship though. I was wondering if getting experience elsewhere for a few years (2-3) would eventually help in securing a job or I found still be at square one due to the non-US degree.

If all else fails I'd rather try to be a test pilot. But then again I'd have to go the civilian route cause I wouldn't be eligible for the military.

I'm really confused right now and would appreciate any advice. Who would have thought nationality would be an obstacle...naive old me.

Cheers :)

[Roger-Wilco]

but being a foreign student means that they're just not hiring cause of the cost of sponsoring a visa.

The US seems even worse

What about your own country? there must be an aerospace industry of some sort.....

If all else fails I'd rather try to be a test pilot.

LOL, you make it sound so simple and i would say that prospective Test Pilots certainly dont hold it as a 2nd option/backup career plan. It should be your 1st!!

Anyway, I havent heard of many Test Pilots who have not gone through the military route. I guess the main reason is that mostTest Pilots in the UK would have gone through ETPS or NTPS as a minimum. The costs associated with these courses/qualifications are ASTRONOMICAL such that you couldnt self-sponsor (even if you did -are you the "right stuff"??); so sponsorships must originate from the goverment (i.e. Military).

Just my 2 pence...

Edit: just noticed - shouldnt this be moved to the Engineering forum?

[Brie]

Stick with the engineering job!!!!! You have much more directions you can do. So options are wider. Aviation is a very limited direction. What to do if you are jobless???

Choose engineering, you'll get the money, the hot chicks and driving a fancy car. Things a pilot can only dream about.

Good luck.

[Bearcat F8F]

Brie, that's the stupidest reply ever.

x-boy, really depends on what kind of route you are planning to become a pilot (have you got the funding etc?). Engineering is the safer way to go - much less of a chance of sitting jobless with a big loan to pay off. But if you love flying, nothign else will cut the mustard - I'm guessing you are not one of those people.

Good luck.

[Brie]

Bearcat: dont take it as an offence, i see you are still very young. Stupid reply of me? Come back in 10 years and we will speak again about this 'stupid' reply of me.

[mad_jock]

There are a few chaps on here that know what they are talking about when it comes to aero engineering.

I freely admit I know sod all.

Genghis and India Mike are worth listening to.

remember an Aero degree doesn't just do aircraft, loads of them go into cars and boats and linked sturctural. Also civil as well because as we know that are particualrly thick about anything other than squashing cubes of concrete.

One of my aero mates went to Aston Martin and another to Iveco and another to a F1 team.

[Bearcat F8F]

Bearcat: dont take it as an offence, i see you are still very young. Stupid reply of me? Come back in 10 years and we will speak again about this 'stupid' reply of me.

I should've made it more clear and referenced this bit:

Choose engineering, you'll get the money, the hot chicks and driving a fancy car. Things a pilot can only dream about.
This is true because obviously pilots don't see any hot women every day and engineers presumably do - the cleaning lady in the hall perhaps?

And yes, pilots don't drive fancy cars. But engineers ride to work and back in their F150 Raptors everyday.

If you meant the above as a side-joke, sorry I over-reacted. But it's even more hilarious if you were being serious.

[zondaracer]

My brother and my friends studied Aerospace engineering. I dropped after the first year and pursued a liberal arts degree. My brother later on went to work on fighter aircraft and later got a free master's degree courtesy of our nation's military, and is now a professor of Aerospace engineering at our nation's Air Force Academy. He is now at the point of choosing between a free PhD paid for by the Air Force, pursuing well paid jobs at aerospace companies or applying at F1 teams (his long term goal, and his work on computational fluid dynamics qualifies him for many teams at the moment).

Another one of my friends who came from a third world country with virtually no aerospace industry found work at a small company in his country, working for his country's only astronaut (who happens to be his childhood hero).

I spent much of my earnings to get a professional pilot's license to find work as a low paid instructor, but I enjoy it very much. However, I wouldn't be able to raise my family on my own if it wasn't for my wife's income.

I enjoy the people that I work with and I enjoy the job, and my brother and friends consistently ask me how they can get their pilot's license and what they need to do, because they think flying would be a lot more fun than working at a desk. I guess the takeaway is that the grass is greener on the other side.

['India-Mike]

One of my students last year wanted to stay in UK but ended up going home because of a visa issue. And I thought the politicians were keen to retain quality eng graduates in the country. So your visa plight is not unknown to me.

Structures jobs seem to be prevalent nowadays; if you can do structural analysis and use the software packages you're in a strong position. CFD skills come a close second, but anyone can run Fluent so competition is greater for those jobs than structures ones.

Doing another degree will just delay the inevitable.

If you want to fly, fly. Find a way to do it. Pprune is stuffed with advice about private or professional flying. But it's rare to find a position that combines both engineering and flying. There are certainly plenty of professional pilots with aero engineering degrees but who've never worked as engineers, and that's a different thing. I know perhaps half a dozen aero engineers who need their flying qualifications to function as engineers, and vice versa. Rare breed indeed.

[Bearcat F8F]

If you feel particularly talented and rich, you could start up your own company and build light aircraft or gliders - then you could fly and engineer. But I would imagine this is much much much harder than it sounds. But if you know a niche, then no reason why you can't make it work.

Engineering is probably good fun if you are the one who is creating conceptual designs for the next Concorde. But if you are stuck doing structural analysis or designing a new door knob for the A380, then that has to be one heck of a buzz kill.

[Kyriakos]

X-Boy, i did both.

It was “a curse and a bless” at the same time. Curse coz if I didn’t spent 5 years of studying engineering I would have completed my pilot licenses much earlier and probably fly a 340 now around the world.

Bless coz now I do have a stable and interesting engineering job, still 8-5, but with lots of challenge. The danger here is settling! Its comfortable and smooth life which easily becomes a routine and you start to forget aviation knowledge and skills are fading out. You MUST find ways to keep sharp and “airworthy!” Part-time IR is what i strongly suggest.

Of course, the bug is still there and growing…so 1st RH opportunity shall come, im grabbing it.

[Poeli]

Why not try both? I'm also an engineering student, working my ass off in my vacations to earn some money (not forgetting to enjoy life, travelling, going out), to get some flying licences in the future.
If I only could combine flying and engineering, it would be the best thing ever. But for now I only concentrate on getting the degree and afterwards, while working start training for the PPL and who knows what might follow later on.
Enjoying your time while studying is one of the things I forgot during the first 2 years as a student. I did not travel, did not go out that much, only studied and worked to save money to fly. The most important thing to me now is that I enjoy what I do. I don't spoil my money, but I won't say no to a trip to southern France with mates! Don't forget this!

[Guttn]

X-boy, here's a little bit of advice from a pilot who has +10 years in the industry (and that is after instructing for hours). There are 2 ways for an up and come to viet the airline industry; the picture perfect poster medio 1980s way, or the 2010s way where you are sleeping in crashpads with ever more liberal flight time limitations while struggling to get hours on your self financed typerating while doing a dubious 6 month contract for an airline run by beancounters. :eek: How far forward are you willing to bend to get a foot wedged in the door for that first job? How about the second after your contract is up (Oh no, they won't renew it because, guess what, the next guy in line also wants some hours and is willing to pay for hos first 500 hours on type)? This is reality for a lot of newcomers who say "all I want to so is fly". Don't get me wrong though, flying is fun! But they way things have turned out the last 10 years, you should be asking yourself If it really is worth it. Personally, If given the choice to do it all over again in the current environment and having the benefit of knowing what I now have experienced, I honestly would first get a proper education and set aside cash every month to evetually finance a fAtpl. Always, and I cannot stress this enough, always have something to fall back on for those rainy days, because it's not always sunny in aviation. :ugh::{
Btw, check out the Terms area at Pprune:ok: Look at what is being offered contract pilots, then take a deep breath and find out if this is something you would have the pleasure of experiencing.

[x-boy]

Wow thanks for all the replies guys! Some really great advice! :)

I'm from a small developing country. We're too busy killing each other and being embroiled in civil wars cause that's way more important than some fancy planes, duh! What industry lol?

I realise I made test pilot sound like a walk in the park :p But it's just that I've always wanted to fly aerobatics (Someday be in something like the red bull air races) and am working towards it as time and money will allow. So I figured if all else fails and I have an opportunity it's something I'd strongly consider. Worst case I'll have a lot of hours on different types and would have a job flying cargo or whatever I could get paid for. It seems way more rewarding to fly a shiny plane than spend years designing it to never get a ride in it.

Ahaha and about the fancy cars and women, half the engineers I studied with have less social skills than an orange. Atleast the orange wouldn't say anything awkward. But then they don't care and they're amazing at what they do so fair play.

I've got a lot of experience with CAD , FEA and CFD out of uni and the courses i picked. But at an entry level position Its just a mix of the money companies have to spend along with the legal hoops cause of the whole 'Oh noooes, foreigners are stealing all our jobs' hooplah. Politics I tells you. But then it's hard for everyone. I'm still searching all out for an engineering job but it's just disheartening when you can't work in a job you love cause of where you were born. C'est la vie :)

And about the start a company thing, it's something i'm definitely doing but right now without industry experience I don't think it's the wisest thing to do. A few years down the line, possibly remedy the lack of an aerospace industry back home and inspire the young ones!

The more I read these forums the more it seems like you pilots have horrible conditions. What happened to the 90's when I grew up looking up to pilots with all the hot air hostesses being goddamn rockstars?! I swear everyone wanted to be a commercial pilot!