North Korean Olympic Team

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Does anyone know if a Korean Aircraft was used to bring their team to the UK? If so, which airport did it use and is it still around? Thanks..

[Evanelpus]

A guess, and it's only my guess, would be that they flew Air Kyoro to Beijing and onward by other carrier.

Boy, how I'd hate to be wrong though!;)

[ConstantFlyer]

Doesn't look from this clip http://news.yahoo.com/video/north-korean-athletes-leave-olympics-051310293.html that there were too many of them. Probably went from Pyongyang to Beijing on Air Koryo then onwards by BA or CA scheduled.

[sled dog]

How many will be taking the return flight............;)

[lenhamlad]

They all will. There will be too many minders with them for any of them to even think about aslyum. Plus what will happen to their families back home if they tried it on.

[11Fan]

Plus what will happen to their families back home if they tried it on.

Wouldn't be too surprised if they didn't have a tight leash around them already.

[Ocean Person]

HEATHROW DIRECTOR should be suitably chastised and given a week in the stocks for asking such a sly loaded question. Does it matter who the athletes of the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea elect to fly with ? The U.K. should be thanking them for even bothering to come considering the colour they will add to what looks like being a rather unspectacular event. As for defecting you can forget that, these athletes are North Korea's elite and they dont see the grubby west as some golden utopia.

Amazing how media political outporings are soaked up by the sponge like brains of the uninformed.

O.P.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Not that I wish to speak for HD, but I'd wager that his question was more to do with the rare as a hen's tooth chance of seeing an Air Kyoro IL-62 in the UK. This is after all, 'spotter's corner' within Pprune ;)

To balance things, mr ocean's missive is most likely true, being that the athletes will have received and experienced the best that NK has to offer bearing in mind that they are the friendly face of the regime. It's just a shame that the millions of other citizens within are left with dust and promises....A bit like the UK then :}



SHJ

[Ocean Person]

SpringHeeledJack;

On reflection I may been a bit hard on the Director and owe him an apology. I was somewhat irritated by the inane and stupid remarks that followed his question. Hopefully he will accept my " absit invidia ".

O.P.

[SOPS]

I didn't even realise there was a North Korean Olympic Team.:O

[LTNman]

nor did the organisers

[SpringHeeledJack]

nor did the organisers

:D:D:D :} Almost spilt my coffee, almost.



SHJ

[ConstantFlyer]

I was somewhat irritated by the inane and stupid remarks that followed his question.

Ocean Person

I'm sorry if you were irritated. I was trying to offer a constructive response.

HD

I too would have loved to have seen an Air Koryo IL-62 or Tu-204 over here. They are rare birds indeed.

[Dg800]

As for defecting you can forget that, these athletes are North Korea's elite and they dont see the grubby west as some golden utopia.

Which translated into plain English means: "Their families are not starving, unlike most of the civilian population, hence they are not desperate enough to defect". Besides the fact that they have surely all been hand-picked to be highly coercible, by threats to their families and similar measures. You can be sure there will be not one single athlete who stands to lose nothing by defecting.

Some East Germans got to travel to the West way back then too, but only a small portion of them did defect. I'm sure Korean authorities can be even more persuasive than the former Stasi.

To get back on topic, I don't think that North Korea considered even for a second to schedule a direct flight to the West. The athletes might not be at high risk of defection, but what if the whole crew did defect upon arrival? That would make getting the plane back a bit tricky. :E

Ciao,

Dg800

[ilesmark]

It would indeed have been interesting to see an Air Koryo TU-204 landing in London but as far as anything older is concerned the answer looks to be no - Transport: List of airlines banned within the EU - European commission (http://ec.europa.eu/transport/air-ban/list_en.htm)

I'll look out for the North Korean team though - they'll probably do everything synchronised!!

[One Sixty until 4.]

The North Koreans did manage two flights to MAN with IL62 P-882 in connection with the World Student Games in Sheffield in the early 1990s. On both occasions the crew managed to stay with their aircraft and return home, so set a precedent. I doubt the crew ever considered defection, knowing the consequences for their extended families left back home.

The only time I have seen one of their machines. And probably ever will. Legion though the attractions of Pyongyang are, I can't see me bothering. ;)

[Curious Pax]

Latest copy of one of the popular aviation periodicals has a report on an organised spotting trip to North Korea! (yes, I was surprised too).

[Dg800]

Latest copy of one of the popular aviation periodicals has a report on an organised spotting trip to North Korea! (yes, I was surprised too).

Won't this get you a 10 year sentence after a three-day trial for spying? And no, I'm not joking.

[Evanelpus]

Latest copy of one of the popular aviation periodicals has a report on an organised spotting trip to North Korea! (yes, I was surprised too).

There is a trip report somewhere on the web, try FlyerTalk.

Also try YouTube, I think there is film of a trip in an Air Koryo IL76

[Heathrow Harry]

I know a few people who have been - it sounds like a very very strange spot indeed

I guess if you are on an OFFICIAL tour you'd be OK - see

Photos North Korea (http://www.comtourist.com/travel/north-korea/photos-north-korea/)

At least they allowed pictures at the airport - don't try THAT on the tarmac at Mount Pleasant................

[marcoalza]

I think you need to calm down a bit.
HD only asked a simple question.:=

[Ocean Person]

Watch out for the beautiful North Korean girl who is the top shooter in their ladies archery team. At the 2008 olympics she missed out on a medal by only a hairs breadth so this time she is sure to be inspired. If you wish to see pulchritude personified them don't miss the ladies archery.

O.P.

[Dg800]

I guess if you are on an OFFICIAL tour you'd be OK - see

I know you can take pictures without being necessarily arrested on the spot. There is, after all, a ton of them available on the 'net. But a group of people taking pictures of what's going on in an airport all day long? That might make them a bit suspicious. :=

[lenhamlad]

Amazing how media political outporings are soaked up by the sponge like brains of the uninformed.

Ocean Person - on what basis have you reached this conclusion that I am uninformed? Have you been to North Korea? If so, have you been able to travel freely and spoken to anyone you wanted to? If not then I would suggest you are as informed as I am.

[Ocean Person]

lenhamlad;

The answer to your question is yes. I recently visited North Korea, I went with an open mind and came away with much to think about. May I suggest you key into Google the letters KFA ( they stand for Korean Friendship Association ) and spend a few minutes reading their official web page. You don't have to take it all on board but it might help achieve a balance. I'm sure you will agree that knowledge is no load to carry.

O.P.

[lenhamlad]

OP Thank you. Well you are more informed than me as I have not been there yet. That does not mean to say I am uninformed. Neither of us have been to the moon but we have knowledge given to us from which we can make an opinion. Were you able to travel freely around the country? More importantly are North Koreans able to travel freely in their own country and apply for a passport to travel overseas? I have had a quick glance at the website you suggested. As a counterpoint may I suggest you read the Human Rights Watch report on North Korea. I know which website I would trust to give a more accurate picture of real life in the Democratic Republic.

[TEEEJ]

Lenhamlad,

You only have to watch the 'Friends of Kim - Documentary' to see how deluded Alejandro Cao de Benós de Les y Pérez, President of the Korean Friendship Association, and his supporters are. How on earth can people be so naive and gullible?

2iqWx-iwkb0

8 part documentary.

C76HqPaA6kw

[Nervous SLF]

Then tell me everything is as good as that friendship person says it is.

KIMJONGILIA: North Korea Prison Camps Documentary (COMPLETE) - YouTube

:oh::yuk:

[Ocean Person]

lenhamlad;
I am not saying North Korea is perfect. The problem is Juche. Juche is a failure but hopefully there is change on the horizone. It's a fair bet that the Human Rights Report you refer to is part fact and part fiction and you would be well advised not to be unduly influenced by it. Ask yourself who put the report together and who signed it off ? Grinding axes comes to mind.

TEEEJ;
I am a member of the KFA and I don't consider myself naive or gullible. More to the point is that you and others like you should be aware that there are many people in the west who silently support the people of North Korea. Nice video you supplied so thanks for the memories. I even recognised the flagstones and the lush short green grass that helps make Pyongyang such a beautiful city.

Nervous SLF;
One of the most active sub branches of the KFA is in New Zealand. Oh you didn't know that, well now you do.

O.P.

[ConstantFlyer]

Can we get back to the original theme, please?

I think we've established that the North Korean olympic team didn't travel to the UK on an Air Koryo aircraft. So where outside North Korea can you regularly see Air Koryo planes? There are plenty of flights to Beijing, for sure. And I've heard about flights to places like Vladivostok, Shenyang, Macau and Bangkok.

Any recent sightings, anyone? Passenger or cargo flights.

[p7r]

Latest copy of one of the popular aviation periodicals has a report on an organised spotting trip to North Korea! (yes, I was surprised too).
Won't this get you a 10 year sentence after a three-day trial for spying? And no, I'm not joking.

I know quite a bit about DPRK. The place fascinates me. In particular how they deal with Westerners on official tours fascinates me.

To get a visa to get to visit (and many, many Europeans and Americans have in fact visited over the last 15 years whose accounts I've read), you need to agree to what they tell you to do.

You will be met by official escorts at the airport, you will not go wandering off on your own, you will stay in the hotel they tell you to stay in (at the rates they set), you will eat what they tell you to eat, when they tell you to eat it (as tourists, you will get very, very good food), and you will follow the itinerary they give you.

You will surrender your passport to them on arrival, and your first duty will be to pay respects to "The Dear Leader" and "The Glorious Leader". Accounts of this ceremony all involve you buying some flowers, and at least bowing to the statue of the dear leader, if not crying as your chaperones most likely will.

You do not get to take photos of anything you want. You do not get to make phone calls to whoever you want. It's their country, you're their guests, you do as they ask you to.

Remember: they have your passport. It's probably polite to do as they ask, and they will return the politeness by returning your passport at the end of your trip. It's not a threat, per se. Just an understanding

If you turn up wanting to do some plane spotting, either that will have been agreed in advance and they will tell you where you are going, when, and what planes you will see, or you're making up an itinerary on the spot and your request will be politely refused.

You will not get to see any military hardware, and if you should see it by accident, you will be not allowed to take any photos of it on pain of your camera being destroyed and you possibly being imprisoned.

There have been people who have got into North Korea without this palava (search for "The forbidden railway" if you want to know more), but the method they used is now forbidden to Westerners (they'll cancel your visa the moment you turn up in Pyong Yang if you've got the train in from Moscow), and is possibly punishable by imprisonment if they believe your motive was espionage.

Certainly if you do find a way in without a guide and start taking photos of planes, you're going to eventually hand your camera over to somebody in a uniform who doesn't like what he sees and you're going to cause a diplomatic incident. Given such incidents could lead to nuclear warheads being deployed (they're very twitchy, and in 1990 the Pentagon estimated if war broke out on the Korean peninsula there would be 1 million deaths in the first 24 hours), it's probably best if you don't do that. At all.

In short, if you're going to go plane spotting, make sure it's official, respectfully do as you're asked to by your guides, don't push the boundaries too far but challenge them lightly about their insistence you shouldn't interact with "uninteresting things" (they're the most interesting things), try and be be careful about what you say and do, and please, please, please write it up. It's rare and valuable social history.

[Ocean Person]

p7r;

I'm amazed !! Everything you have said is correct. The only thing you have missed is to confirm it's all very easy. The visit amounts to a unique experience and to enjoy it all you have to do is behave yourself. Everyone who goes comes away a much wiser person.

There are no fingers at Pyongyang airport so arriving passengers walk across a wide tarmac amongst various types of Air Koryo aircraft. The smell of burning kerosene in an unpolluted atmosphere along with a brilliant blue sky is truly intoxicating. Visiting North Korea these days is not political, just go, it is worth ever cent you will spend.

O.P.

[Skipness One Echo]

all you have to do is behave yourself. Everyone who goes comes away a much wiser person
I read the whole thread, and for once I was genuinely saddened. I don't intend to argue with what Ocean Person is saying, I just think it's worth saying that as a free Westerner, no irony or quotes even near the word free on this occasion, I am today looking at the London skyline in a much warmer way.

[irishair2001]

The story and pics are in the August issue of Airliner World

[pwalhx]

I can behave myself but be free to do as I wish, for behave yourself I think you should say as long as you behave in the way they want you to. I am an experienced traveller and respect the culture and rules of law in any place I go so I believe I can be trusted on my own. What is shown above is you will not be trusted alone therefore you do not get a true feel for the country merely one that they wish you to see.

I have just returned from Seoul and was quite surprised with their view of the North, however I will leave it at that sorry I am now contributing to thread drift.

[11Fan]

I couldn't help but notice that the North Korean Olympic Team wasn't entered in the Pole Vault competition. :p

[reynoldsno1]

The smell of burning kerosene in an unpolluted atmosphere along with a brilliant blue sky is truly intoxicating

Classic quote:ok:

[Dg800]

The smell of burning kerosene in an unpolluted atmosphere along with a brilliant blue sky is truly intoxicating
Classic quotehttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Hey, if the Revered Leader says the atmosphere is unpolluted, then unpolluted it is. The smell of kerosene is just incense burning. Now behave yourself, please. :mad:

[Dg800]

I couldn't help but notice that the North Korean Olympic Team wasn't entered in the Pole Vault competition.

They were, but as their government only issued them with a 1-meter pole, for reasons of national security of course, they just didn't bother getting out of bed. :E

[The SSK]

The smell of burning kerosene in an unpolluted atmosphere along with a brilliant blue sky is truly intoxicating

Classic quote

Yes, I can relate to that. As a young Newcastle spotter in the early 1960s (piston power only) I had my first encounter with jets and turboprops on a visit to Prestwick and the smell - and the noise - was unforgettable.

[Dimitrii]

I enjoyed this tour several years ago. From a Russian. Wandering Camera: North Korea (DPRK) (http://www.enlight.ru/camera/dprk/index_e.html)

[p7r]

There is a trip report somewhere on the web, try FlyerTalk.

Also try YouTube, I think there is film of a trip in an Air Koryo IL76

Here's a report I just found: Trip Report: Chasing Classic Airplanes To North Korea. (http://aeroblogger.com/home/blog/trip-report-chasing-classic-airplanes-to-north-korea/)

[Ocean Person]

Dimitii;

Your " Wandering Camera in North Korea " is an excellent pictorial of life in North Korea. I enjoyed going through it as the scenes and comments are both real and accurate. However there were just a couple of things missing ie,
(1) No mention of North Korea's perception of what they call " The Concrete Wall "
(2) No mention of the captured American spy ship USS Pueblo that is moored on the Taedong River in central Pyongyang. This ship is still listed as part of the USA navy but the North Korean's are using it as a tourist attraction. The ship itself is still in very good condition.
(3) No mention of the American aircraft shot down during the Korean War and now displayed in Pyongyang's military museum.

The segment on the Pyongyang metro was very good. There is one interesting feature of the metro that few foreigners are aware of. Did you know that walking up or down on a moving metro escalator is strickly forbidden ? When you step on the escalator you stay put until you step off. The reason for this is because the escalators are so steep due to the fact that they go down into what is designated as bomb shelters. Any person who stumbles could set up a domino effect that would cause others to tumble down the moving incline. Thus no walking on the metro escalators. Thanks for sharing your trip.

O.P.


pwalhx; ( permalink 35 )
I would be very interested in the south versus North impressions you gained during your trip to south Korea. Are you saying the south is sympathetic to the North or are you saying the south is hostile to the North ? Note the spelling of " south " because thats how it is written in the North.

O.P.

[ConstantFlyer]

Very much enjoyed the spread in Airliner World about Air Koryo. Interesting to see how many Soviet-types still active.

My interest in Air Koryo - and might I venture to suggest the impetus behind HEATHROW DIRECTOR's original post (is that right, HD?) - is the very rarity of its aircraft outside DPRK. Air Koryo must now be one of, if not the, only airline in the world to actively operate An-24, Il-18, Tu-134, Tu-154, Il-62 and Tu-204.

I note from Airliner World's report that services began in 2011 from Pyongyang to Kuwait and Kuala Lumpur. I wonder what the balance is between economics and operational politics when it comes to Air Koryo opening and closing routes. The Kuwait route is not listed in OAG this month, so maybe it is either ad hoc, irregular or more of a charter.

It seems Air Koryo is on the latest EU list of banned airlines, so we won't be seeing anything of them here.

[ilesmark]

In looking for the Airliner World thingie, I didn't find it BUT i did stumble across this:- A Flight On Air Koryo North Koreas Airline Information, Videos, Pictures and News (http://www.rtbot.net/a_flight_on_air_koryo_north_koreas_airline)

It may even have been someone on the same trip as the writer of the 'Chasing Classic Airplanes' article