British pilot in prison in Central African Republic

[Tableview]

I found this and am surprised that it has apparently not yet found its way onto Pprune. Very sad.

Inside the African jail hell of British pilot charged with murder - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/centralafricanrepublic/9417249/Inside-the-African-jail-hell-of-British-pilot-charged-with-murder.html)

It has ........ someone beat me to it by a few minutes :
http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/491149-support-british-bush-pilot-david-simpson.html

[Cacophonix]

Getting caught up in the sometimes brutal bureaucracies of third world countries (and some supposedly first world ones, vide. Italy) is no picnic.

I trust that he is released soon and that he is back boring holes in African skies.

[tsgas]

The threat of getting maleria or food poisoning runs very high in this Bangui prison. Hopefully he will be released soon and be reunited with his loved ones.
Godspeed to you young man.

[Piltdown Man]

Hopefully he will be released soon and be reunited with his loved ones.

You are living in La-La land. This place is a toilet. In countries like this you have no rights. This guy is stuffed. Not unless you can grab one of the ruling bastard's family and send bits of him to his relations back home in an envelope will you have a chance. So I'd start the hunting the scum in Bond/Sloane/Regent Street, the places where these vermin shop.

But that doesn't mean to say I'm not sympathetic - just realistic.

[tsgas]

Well ,unlike yourself , I never give up hope . To be so negative and live in despair is not really living a worthwhile life..

[500N]

I have added a couple of posts on the other original thread in
Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA etc that provides a bit more information
from Hunting forums and web sites including a link to a blog
of the company, the staff of which were arrested and jailed
with David.

[captplaystation]

Cacophonix, I would imagine the only hole he will be planning on boring in African skies will be courtesy of a Northbound Boeing/Airbus the day he is released. . . . . if not, well, "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me"

[LLuCCiFeR]

Well ,unlike yourself , I never give up hope . To be so negative and live in despair is not really living a worthwhile life..
Sure, let's be positive and have trust in the local judicial system and the kleptocrats running the place... :rolleyes:

[maxred]

I hope it ends well for this guy, and he gets his release soon. However, it sometimes appears that the Brits, and for that matter, other Western nation citizens, move around the globe with a view that their idea of reality/democracy/decency/how to do things, is the way and manner in which everyone around the globe behaves:sad:

The reality is that vast tracks of our planet, if not totally lawless, certainly are pretty dangerous places to be, whether it be working, or a tourist. I would have thought that Central Africa, and North of that, would raise the game of any Westerner, and that the daily motto of 'let your watchword be take care', would kick in extra hard.

[5aday]

Pitdown is correct. There is no, repeat, no sense or logic or even justice in such places. Life has virtually no value and to imprison someone like this (ie not in their tribe) is just another badge they wear with some sort of misguided pride. I've delivered aeroplanes to people working down there and the first thing they fit in the flight deck is a small hand gun cabinet.
I stopped doing it in the end and did something else more satisfying (and rewarding).

[500N]

It's not just one person who has been jailed. It's 13 people.

Might be worth reading this link (which I put in the other thread)
which is the company the staff who are jailed work for (including David).

Central African Wildlife Adventures (http://cawasafari.wordpress.com/)

[tsgas]

500N thank you for some factual and intellegent information. It' refreshing compared to the trailer park crowd's trash talk.

[500N]

No problems, it's only because I hunt that I knew about it
since it happened and as I said on the other thread, it's been
discussed at length for a few months.

If I see any other news / developments posted on the hunting
forums I'll cut and paste them to here.

[Heathrow Harry]

regretfully this is what can happen when you go and work in such places - it's part of the job risk

I just hope the authorities here are doing something rather than the usual Foreign Office "mustn't upset the natives" routine

[booze]

I used to fly the Central Arican Rep.

Please let me know (PM me) if i can help with at least some contacts there: International Red Cross, United Nations, other aviation companies, etc.

[poorjohn]

Alas, one can't buy insurance retroactively but I wonder if an outfit like GlobalRescue is a handy thing to sign up with. I think they get something upwards of USD2k/year for 'travelers insurance' that includes being plucked out of tight spots by a gang of ex-US Navy Seals they have on hand.

Re the topic, is the British Government involved/interested? I guess if the gang running the prison were unofficial terrorists instead of government terrorists there'd be some chance of a bit of a midnight arse-kicking.

[NordicMan]

Maybe he should become a muslim... Then the British goverment would do anything...

[Sunfish]

The only thing that will get this guy out of jail is money in cash. It might be as simple as his employer taking out a "security" contract with the local police. Get Controlrisk to handle it if they aren't already.

Most probable cause of the issue (apart from the money angle) is that the police either can't or won't identify the real culprits and this arrest is the easy and profitable option.

Don't EVER interact with police outside a First world country, you will just be seen as a meal ticket. Furthermore, you should carry an open airline ticket and your passport with you and in the event of even a traffic accident, consider leaving immediately, even if you aren't the driver. Don't take anything into the country that you are not prepared to just walk away from.

Some of you will have heard of what happened to a couple of American geologists years ago in Aceh. The locals murdered one of them, the other escaped, wounded, and went to the local police station for help - they shot him and buried him to try and cover up the whole incident.

[500N]

Sunfish

The article explains the back ground to the whole thing
and who has already been kicked out (the minister).

Most hunters and Professional Hunting organizations in these areas
know that things can get dicey at times - and turn from being a stable
to an unstable situation very quickly. CAR has always been viewed
as more un stable than others and really has only become more "mainstream"
(for hunting) over recent times.


I asked around over the last week if anyone had any updates, no one has come back yet with anything.
.

[The Ancient Geek]

Nowt wrong with bush piloting, many pilots spend their entire careers there and enjoy every moment.

You just have to know that there are some places to be avoided.
You need to be young, stupid, and VERY desperate for hours to even consider CAR or DRC.

Africa is like any other part of the world, there are the great places and there are the :mad:

[Xshongololo]

When they have finished with him…..best he goes for an HIV test.

[rcsa]

Excellent news - David Simpson has been freed from prison (during a riot in which all the prisoners in the jail escaped and the prison was destroyed - an Africa special, this one).

Very good telling of the story here:

Briton behind bars in Central Africa freed during riot - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/centralafricanrepublic/9451535/Briton-behind-bars-in-Central-Africa-freed-during-riot.html)

[Piltdown Man]

Excellent news - David Simpson has been freed from prison...

That's what I call a result. But I there's probably some idiot who'll reckon that he really ought to hand to hand himself in to the authorities. After all he was legally detained. Wasn't he?

I hope he is at home with his loved ones.

[wozzo]

That's what I call a result. But I there's probably some idiot who'll reckon that he really ought to hand to hand himself in to the authorities. After all he was legally detained. Wasn't he?
If you'll read the article, you will notice that he was released by a judge during/after the riots, is in a kind of "house arrest", but expects full and legal release shortly. Curious story.

[BALLSOUT]

Surely the moral of this story is- DON'T go to work in one of these god forsaken places in the first place!

[rcsa]

My grandmother was a KC - a Kenya Colonial. She lived and died in the days before Political Correctness. But from when I was knee-high to a grasshopper I recall she used to tell me this:

"If you want the best life in the world, be a white man in Africa. But never forget, one day you'll walk home in your underpants - if you're lucky."

As true now as it was then. Some of us love the reward and are prepared to run the risk. Some fear the risk and will never taste the reward.

[Tableview]

That is so true. I remember telling my very intelligent but uneducated Xhosa 'maid' in Cape Town that I was going to live in Europe for a while. She asked if I would take her with and I said I couldn't. She asked me who was going to clean my house etc, and I said I would have to. She said : "That is not how a white man should live!"

[sAx_R54]

"If you want the best life in the world, be a white man in Africa..."

For sure be all that and wallow in the pseudo-colonial self-righteousness of the 'Happy Valley' set, however be clear that there will always be another Mugabe to positively re-dress the balance.

[sAx_R54]

@Tableview

Said the, intelligent but uneducated Xhosa 'maid'

To the unintelligent but 'educated' non-Xhosa footman?

[Tableview]

sAx_R54

Please clarify your meaning - if any. Thank you.

[sAx_R54]

Read your original post, the meaning could not be clearer!

[KAG]

Tableview:That is so true. I remember telling my very intelligent but uneducated Xhosa 'maid' in Cape Town that I was going to live in Europe for a while. She asked if I would take her with and I said I couldn't. She asked me who was going to clean my house etc, and I said I would have to. She said : "That is not how a white man should live!"
Very intelligent because she knows how to please and talk to an arrogant white man?

[sAx_R54]

@KAG

Very intelligent because she knows how to please and talk to an arrogant white man?

Although I chose the antonym, my sentiments entirely!

[Tableview]

From whence do you deduce the 'arrogant' white man part?

At last KAG has the courage to say what he means.

[sAx_R54]

At last KAG has the courage to say what he means.

I thought the problem was one of clinical proportion, so courage (lack of) was not within my consideration!

My question was simple (evidently too simple), was it YOU that the intelligent but uneducated Xhosa maid was speaking to? If so, then clearly you are the antonym!

Simple enough??

[Tableview]

I take you are trying to imply that because I referred to her as uneducated (which she was, albeit through no fault of her own) you are labelling me as 'arrogant'. If so, that says more about your lack of understanding than it does about me.

I take it you don't know too much about South Africa and the background.

[hval]

Tableview,

I suspect that the fact you dared to have a maid upsets KAGs' sensibilities. It probably doesn't matter what you wrote, he would have found fault somehow.

I have had employed maids, gardeners, cooks, etc. in many countries I have lived/ worked in - including Europe. Does that make me a really nasty person, or does it mean that I am being helpful by employing people?

[sAx_R54]

I only endorsed the sentiment of 'arrogance' from another poster, and would not have chosen such a lofty description for you myself. If you actually read my post (that is if you can actually read), you will see that I chose unintelligent but 'educated' non-Xhosa footman!

Clinically 'thick' in other words!

[Tableview]

sAx_R54 : If you can only respond by personal insults then you are best ignored.

[A4]

Jesus! Calm down! Tableview was not being derogatory. He was merely stating a fact - she was uneducated - not a criticism, just a victim of circumstance. He also observed she was highly intelligent.

I'm "uneducated" - left school at 16 - but I've done pretty well :) I'm not saying I'm highly intelligent but I'm not stupid either!

Your comment (sAx_R54) "... if you can actually read...." rather demeans YOU.

Don't be so sensitive and go looking for malice when none is meant.

[sAx_R54]

Certainly agree with you on that point. Best to ignore!

[sAx_R54]

@A4

Your comment (sAx_R54) "... if you can actually read...." rather demeans YOU.

"...actually read...." does not demean me. 'Offensive' demeans us ALL!

[A4]

sAx - I think you have taken offence when none was intended or meant. It is a simple misunderstanding. However, sarcastically questioning whether someone "can actually read" is not offensive? Are you not belittling that person if they cannot read - perhaps because they are not educated? Sounds a bit arrogant to me.

[sAx_R54]

@A4

I must have missed something! An intelligent uneducated Xhosa maid is a factual accurate account that 'clearly' you have some ability to corroborate, but 'if can you actually read' is offensive!

Perhaps my ability to split hairs is not a match for your own.

[A4]

If you actually read my post (that is if you can actually read), you will see that I .....

You don't see the irony in the above quote from your post? Anyway, I'm not quite sure why I got involved in this. I just think, perhaps incorrectly, that there are far too many people in this world who actively seek out offence / perceived non-PC "crimes" and then can't wait to go off on one much to the bemusement of most on lookers.

[sAx_R54]

@A4

Agreed!

However for avoidance of doubt the context that you mis-understood was this:

I take you are trying to imply that because I referred to her as uneducated (which she was, albeit through no fault of her own) you are labelling me as 'arrogant'.

As had only agreed with the sentiment of the poster who raised the term arrogant, it was legitimate for me to question the ability of the poster to read, who pointed such towards me!

[hval]

sAx_R54,

And you don't consider your initial comment (posted below) to be rude?

@Tableview Said the, Quote:but uneducated Xhosa 'maid' To the unintelligent but 'educated' non-Xhosa footman?

[500N]

"I referred to her as uneducated (which she was, albeit through no fault of her own)"

Uneducated in your eyes and your world and that is because she has come into our world.

If you or I went to live in the bush with Masai or some other hunter gatherers or the trackers who help on these Safari's to track game that you and I can't, then you and I become the uneducated.

Education is relative to your environment.

[Basil]

A4, see your 16 and raise to 15 ;)
You're right about some comment here, although I quite enjoy observing the PC left foaming at the mouth as they attempt to put 'incriminating' words into other people's. :ok:

[Max Angle]

I read a report that quoted Mr Simpson as saying he wants to stay and carry on working once this is all over but "don't tell my Mother". Don't suppose he is reading this but my advice to you old chap is get the hell out as soon as you can in case someone changes their mind. If it were me I would be putting distance between me and West Africa at .84 as soon as I was able.

[FERetd]

500N Quote:- "If you or I went to live in the bush with Masai or some other hunter gatherers or the trackers who help on these Safari's to track game that you and I can't, then you and I become the uneducated.
Education is relative to your environment"

I would suggest that the hunter/gatherers and trackers to which you refer possess a skill which they employ in their respective fields. They may, of course be educated to a greater or lesser degree and be content with their lot.

But one thing is certain, without an education, one's choices are severely limited regardless of one's ambitions. And the better the education the better the options in life. It is possible to be a well educated tracker, if that is one's want. But it is not possible to be an uneducated doctor, lawyer, pilot architect etc. etc.

It is a sad fact that in the developing world populations are increasing faster than they can be educated and even if they could all be educated, where would they find employment?

[500N]

FERetd

That is a very white educated way of looking at being educated.

The "skill" as you say has been taught to them so in
their field they are educated.


"and even if they could all be educated, where would they find employment?"

How about creating industries that create work / jobs / employment
just like some have already done ie Fresh flowers grown in Africa and
flown to Europe each day or week - an industry that creates jobs / work for pilots !

.

[FERetd]

500N Quote " That is a very white educated way of looking at being educated."


Thank you .

I am not a hunter gatherer nor a tracker but am reasonably well educated. I would suggest that I have also earned a lot more money than have your hunter/gatherers and trackers. I have also been able to provide for my family and educate my children. I would not have been able to do this had I not been "educated".

I find your comments to be racist.

No where have I mentioned black/brown/ yellow or any other skin colour.

My remarks about education apply equally to anyone of any colour and anywhere.

As for your statement "How about creating industries that create work / jobs / employment
just like some have already done ie Fresh flowers grown in Africa and
flown to Europe each day or week - an industry that creates jobs / work for pilots !" - I have am amazed at your naievity and ignorance.

Wake up, your coffee is cold!

[Doodlebug]

SaxR54, Tableview was being complimentary by describing his employee as intelligent, albeit uneducated. You confirmed as much with your attempt at deriding him by labelling him the opposite! You are fabricating offence, and then immediately follow up with insults, cloaked in anonymity. What for? Why the aggression, particularly such completely unreasonable aggression? Not trying to go to war with you, just trying to point out that Tableview was certainly not out of line in any manner and that you are portraying yourself in an extremely unflattering manner. Perhaps you misunderstood him?

[sAx_R54]

@Doodlebug.

Thanks for your arbitration of what was meant and what was not meant! I am now much wiser on the relevance to this thread of the grandmother suggesting that Africa is the best place for the white-man to live and that 'compliment' for the very intelligent, but uneducated (through no fault of her own) Xhosa 'maid'.

Was this part of the bail package to free the pilot?

PS The only anonymity is those of you who hide behind pseudonyms so that you can proselytize racist views on this forum. If indeed you are so brave, why not submit them to the Cape Times with your name and address attached? Now that would be a test of intelligence wouldn't it?

[Basil]

those of you who hide behind pseudonyms so that you can proselytize racist views on this forum
Well, who are you? Are you a professional pilot?
Ah, yes, I know: the self appointed superhero defending big black guys against filthy white bigots. Last I noticed, they're perfectly capable of defending themselves.
Anyway, you automatically lose the argument when you accuse someone of racism - bye-bye.

[SloppyJoe]

The only racist undertones seem to be from you sAx_R54.

[Basil]

SloppyJoe, I see you're from HK.
He sounds like your very own Air Profit :uhoh:

[mostlylurking]

:= Please stop fighting with sAx R54 - He can't help it.
A quick look at his posting history shows that he considers himself (rather patronisingly) as a defender of the 'weak'.
I think the clinical name for this is 'white man's guilt': sort of whiplash from the 'white man's burden' of his ancestors.
A few other characteristics are:
His favourite word is Arrogance - he uses it in virtually every thread.
He likes to comment on subjects of which he knows nothing.
He has p'd many others off.

Never argue with a fool -Mark Twain:sad:

[Tableview]

Never argue with a fool -Mark Twain

... which is precisely why I, as the author of the 'racist and arrogant' remark that brought these defenders of the weak crawling out of the woodwork, have stayed out of the ensuing discussion. It's pointless.

[sAx_R54]

@Basil

Ah, yes, I know: the self appointed superhero defending big black guys against filthy white bigots. Last I noticed, they're perfectly capable of defending themselves.

How ironic! Last time I checked I was very much 100% Black!

[sAx_R54]

I think the clinical name for this is 'white man's guilt': sort of whiplash from the 'white man's burden' of his ancestors.

The Burden MostlyLurking, is all yours. Fortunately have never had to suffer the 'white man's burden'.

[cavortingcheetah]

'The White Man's Burden' was the title of a poem by Rudyard Kipling in the context of the US take over of the Philippines after the Spanish American War in 1899.
The burden related to an obligation to rule over and encourage the development of people from other ethnic and cultural backgrounds until they could take their place in the world, economically and socially. It didn't really have anything to do with color so much as it did with subsidization. The closest parallel today might possibly be the European Union or indeed in any other situation where one element of the population is supported by the endeavors of another. One that is usually numerically smaller but more economically productive.

[The Ancient Geek]

Just ignore him, he just has a big chip on his shoulder and thinks that the white man is to blame for everything and owes him a living. The problem is in his head. Pulling the race card is a sure sign of a black racist.
Equality does not mean free handouts, it means that he should make the same effort as everyone else, learn some skills and get a job.

[Tableview]

If he's a South African black man, the poor fellow will consider himself to be 'previously disadvantaged' (it's newSAspeak for 'you are racist'), an excuse which has borne little or no validity since 1994, but one that they will continue using until the end of time rather than face the reality of the world.

[Basil]

OK, sAx_R54; nice one BUT, I have the solution to the problem.
Stop associating with Lefty Liberal Whites (and little Shami) :)

[sAx_R54]

@Tableview

Funny how touchy you guys get, when you are faced with the mirror of what you actually are! Don't worry, there is no AWB flag underneath my pillowcase that causes me to have sleepless nights, for the type of society you long for return.

I'm sure you 'very intelligent, but uneducated (through no fault of her own) 'maid', would at least agree with that.

[sAx_R54]

Stop associating with Lefty Liberal Whites (and little Shami)

Equally good try Basil, BUT I would rather have preferred MK!

[lilflyboy262...2]

So, there is a guy in prison who shouldn't be there...

[The Ancient Geek]

He got out of jail a few days ago.

[lilflyboy262...2]

My bad. I couldnt be bothered going back and reading through the pages of white vs black b*******.

Glad to see he's out.

[amou7]

Hey guys, just came back from the CAR and knew about this situation. The fact is that the guy was a Guide in a hunting safari aka a "'pilot". that's probably why it never made it to pprune. He was imprisoned with his boss, a CAR-born Swede for (after discovering and reporting to the govt) killing 13 youth in their camp area!

[MamaPut]

The fact is that the guy was a Guide in a hunting safari aka a "'pilot". that's probably why it never made it to pprune

From the CAWA website:

Erik has since then been held in custody in Bangui, together with our pilot David Simpson and ten local employees, while the authorities have made an investigation of the case.

The owner of the Central African Wildlife Adventures is Erik Mararv whose father is a well-connected Swede who used to own the biggest well drilling operation in CAR. David Simpson is a young Yorkshire man who was hooked on flying after his parents bought him a flying lesson for his 18th birthday, became hooked and paid for his pilot's licence. After that all he wanted to do was travel and he applied to, and was employed by Erik Mararv. After a year of working for Mararv he was made General Manager of the hunting operation in Bakouma.

There has been some hate mail on a few websites, because CAWA isn't in to photographic safaris, but takes groups of rich hunters to shoot game on a 2.5 million acre concession, of which David Simpson says "Many of them are here for the experience, it's not just about killing things. Some of them are, they want the trophy on the wall. Though I don't understand that myself, but, we might spend a week tracking an animal. We only shoot old males. We have strict quotas. And if we weren't there, the poachers would be. All our trackers are old elephant poachers. We've 25 of them who'd shoot up to 10 elephants a year. That's 250 elephants that are not being shot. If we weren't there, the animals would disappear, like they already have in the north."

[tsgas]

I'm glad to see that positive thinking and living with hope has paid off for this lad.
To all the nay sayers "let this be a lesson" not to live in despair because you just make life miserable for yourself as well as the people that are around you.

[doubleu-anker]

It appears the pilot in question has been freed from jail. Good show.

BBC News - Africa massacre suspect David Simpson freed from jail (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-19384917)

[cavortingcheetah]

Better than that perhaps for him for I do believe he's in England as of this morning.
Pilot David Simpson returns to freedom in Britain from Central African Republic jail - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/centralafricanrepublic/9530423/Pilot-David-Simpson-returns-to-freedom-in-Britain-from-Central-African-Republic-jail.html)