View Full Version : Africa...

14th Jul 2012, 08:36
Seven Of The World's 10 Fastest-Growing Economies Are African - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/seven-of-the-worlds-10-fastest-growing-economies-are-african-2012-5)

.......but let's not fly there!

Dan Winterland
14th Jul 2012, 08:46
Yes, lets not. From my experiences, most of it between South Africa and the Mediterranean is best avoided.

14th Jul 2012, 09:45
Amen to that.

14th Jul 2012, 09:46
I won't be holding my breath.

Captain Dart
14th Jul 2012, 10:10
They don't have the crew, anyway. Another 'missed opportunity'.

Recruitment policy is a shambles. The crewing situation is now so bad that a friend of mine was recently called while on leave and asked to 'help out, we're desperate'. Of course he continued enjoying his leave.

It really is time that someone is held accountable.

14th Jul 2012, 12:56
Shame, I think the Crewing Manager retires next month!

Arfur Dent
14th Jul 2012, 14:30
Overuse of 'A' days and the fact that most people are a bit sharper about the requirements ie 'The time is now 0900, so I will report for duty in ten hours' is rarely what crew control want. If they require standby crews then they must PAY FOR THEM!
Available is a freebee so please do only what is written.:ok:

14th Jul 2012, 18:38
Dan, I guess you're right. Let's turn a blind eye to the money that can be made serving a continent bigger than the US, China and Europe combined and add another daily LA rotation instead!
And of course, there'd be no point in looking for freighter opportunities on a continent who's economies are booming on the back of massive resources wealth, mining, farming etc....no, far better looking for cherry shipments out of San Francisco!
Yep, definitely a place to avoid in "big picture" terms. Sustainability is best found in dwindling markets and depressed economies.....:ok:

14th Jul 2012, 19:39
Whilst I agree that Agrica is the size of the thee continents you mentioned, I have to disagree regarding the " quality" of business". That said I hope that the " black continent" will be considered freighter wise. I spent too many days there and at times is not fun believe me. Yet I hope for a change.
Your friend


Dan Winterland
14th Jul 2012, 19:44
''Dan, I guess you're right. Let's turn a blind eye to the money that can be made serving a continent bigger than the US, China and Europe combined and add another daily LA rotation instead!''

I'm not adverse to money being made. I just don't want to be the one to go there to make it!

Night stop Lagos anyone?

14th Jul 2012, 19:46
Entebbe and Lagos. the glamour of the job keeps getting better. :ok:

Go for it Kasompe...

14th Jul 2012, 19:49
Night stop Lagos anyone?

Dan, if CC can be so kind as to put us in the same hotel and floor as the Virgin Atlantic Girls, then I may reconsider.

14th Jul 2012, 21:53
Sheraton Lagos for Virgin hostesses .. Box ticked :ok:
Only redeeming thing from that trip.

15th Jul 2012, 03:19
Classy :yuk:

15th Jul 2012, 03:55
Dan, I wholly agree with you regarding the nightstopping..... Although I think you may be surprised at how far some of the places have come in recent years.
But my point, really, is that Africa is booming, and perhaps the powers that be in CX would be better placed looking for opportunities there rather than concentrating solely on areas with struggling economies.
As for quality of market, well, Africa is by and large cash driven and there is also a prestige or image associated with this new wealth. There is no shortage of Premium class passenger in Africa nowadays, and they are not paying on credit. In Africa, cash is king.
To my mind, business is business, and whilst airlines such as Emirates, Qatar, KLM, BA, Air France etc, as well as African airlines such as Ethiopian and Kenya Airways are all exploiting this new era of growth, CX sits idly by with its managers opining the lack of new opportunities and sobbing over the lack of money in cargo!
But, just my two cents worth!:ok:

15th Jul 2012, 04:05
Spoke to a friend at EK the other day. He told me that Luanda in Angola is their most profitable destination.

15th Jul 2012, 04:11
......and after New York, apparently Lagos is BA's most profitable route.
CX is definitely missing the boat. :ugh:

15th Jul 2012, 04:46
Africa should be a go, pick and choose a number of destinations. The Chinese national oil company has a significant investments there, lots of Chinese businessman and workers going there, all going via EK.

Ever been to T2 ? see the amount of excess baggage those guys carry on the EK flights ?

The hotels are not that bad, I think we would have worse around the region.

broadband circuit
15th Jul 2012, 05:02

I did hear that about 2 years ago, someone (I believe it wad the GMO) passengered on the JoBurg flight and then traveled onto Luanda to discuss possible flights.

Seems that nothing came of it, except maybe a bit of hand wringing (as usual).

The Management
15th Jul 2012, 15:29
We are in the process of evaluating our newest project, codename: TIA (This Is Africa).

We are looking at the numbers for converting our B747-4ís to a combi configuration and serving the African Continent. The B747-4 on a 9-10 hour mission will utilize the maximum weights of the aircraft and provide maximum profit.

This will still be classified as a Freighter Operation so we can utilize more of the Freighter Pilots. The aircraft will be fitted with approximately 100 seats but will be finalized after our study.

The scope clause at The CPG is now null and void so we will classify the operation as freighter class.

Firstly we are looking at 3-4 times per week, so some duty cycles will be extended somewhat especially for those over manned freighter bases that did not sign the PX agreement. We will look at daily flights when the route becomes profitable.

There is a possibility we will sell our B747-4ís to a third party and The CPG will wet lease that company to fly its African operation

When the route becomes profitable, a dedicated passenger and freighter operation will begin.

These duty cycles will begin out of Hong Kong and the over manned based pilots (that did not sign) will be doing the majority of the flights. Due to range requirements of the route an interim fuel stop will be required in the Emirates this extending your duty cycle.

We are seeking approval from the CAD for extending the flight duty period to 20 hours for a two-sector day. If this is not granted it will be a two pilot operation from Hong Kong to The Emirates and then onto Africa.

Recruitment is looking at hiring direct entry first officers/second officers on a base in the Emirates region. The pilots COS will be based on local terms and conditions. Previous heavy jet command candidates may qualify our accelerated first officer to command course. We are sure many candidates in the region will want to fly shiny heavy jets for The CPG on local conditions.

Recruitment is also evaluating certain bases in the African Region with local based pilots on local conditions, which will lower our cost and increase our bonuses.

We believe the African Continent can be very profitable but we have some limiting factors at this time i.e. landing rights in the Emirates region and beyond, crewing, our pilot scheduling system to name but a few.

Africa will happen

To My Bonus
The Management

15th Jul 2012, 16:57
Yawn. :rolleyes:

15th Jul 2012, 21:35
Double yawn, Management. Pathetic post matey.

15th Jul 2012, 21:59
At a horse stud farm in SA within the last few months and the owner was bemoaning the fact that he sends hundreds of horses a year to Hong Kong, China and Japan, and also to Oz.

Guess what, he has to send them via Europe (not a veterinarian requirement) as there are no good carriers SA to Asia.

But then Cattle from Melbourne seemed such a good idea at the time...

Africa is filling up with mainland managers in many businesses. but you'd have to pay serious millions to get a HKCX manager into that dark continent.

16th Jul 2012, 05:24
I heard recently that we are starting ops into Luanda, Nairobi and Lagos. Lots of Chinese businesses that would love to fly direct from China/ Hong Kong.

In India, Hyderabad will shortly be a new Airbus destination, 3 or 4 times per week.

Looking at Mexico City and South America. Sao Paolo is still too far for a direct flight, but via Honolulu would be a good stop-over initially, and would pick up a little extra holiday traffic as nobody flies direct to HNL from HKG.

16th Jul 2012, 09:33
Perhaps some of our ex SA Air Force chaps would be a little nervous about Luanda ops?!?

16th Jul 2012, 09:41
It's not about passenger volumes, it's about yields. On many routes into/out of Africa they would be low. Then you have to consider the logistical difficulties of operations, corruption, inefficiency, nepotism, cost of doing business in the region, and it can add up to a fairly unpromising picture.

Silent Running
16th Jul 2012, 09:53
Wow! So Just like everywhere else we operate to then...

oriental flyer
16th Jul 2012, 10:39
Are all of you suggesting we go to Africa out of your mind ?
ATC is a disaster, the hotels are lousy, nightstops would be horrible
Do yourself a favour before recommending new routes to the dark continent
spend a couple of weeks in Lagos , Luanda or Kinshasa . That should be long enough to change your mind. Ask the Virgin girls if they like Nigeria or why the BA crew get extra allowances for Nigerian flights
Be very careful what you wish for it's not called the dark continent for no good reason

16th Jul 2012, 10:40
Table, just about everywhere north of the Limpopo has excellent yeilds for other carriers, sometimes the highest of that airline.

Then there are the excess baggage rates which can cover the fuel bill, have a look at the Kenya Airways check in on a good night. Unbelievable.

8th Aug 2012, 18:40
I don't think airlines select new routes on the basis of how nice the layovers will be. It's a business, not a travel agent, and the fact is that there is A LOT of money to be made in Africa. 7 of the World's ten fastest growing economies are African and the continent is outpacing Asia. And yet our esteemed leaders appear never to have even heard of the place. Either that or they're scared of the place, but surely it couldn't be that!
Oh, and Emirates apparently starting a freighter service to Harare.
Personally I think we should add some frequencies to LA......:ok:

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