The AOT Course at Coventry...

[Timmy O'Tool]

I spent a very enjoyable Easter weekend attending the Airline Orientation Training Course at the Cable and Wireless Centre in Coventry.

The course is designed and presented by a team of highly experienced Airline Pilots and in my opinion is a must for anybody seriously considering a Flight Deck position within the Airline environment.

I would like to thank the team at AOT for a very informative and entertaining weekend, and the seven other like-minded guys and girl (Hi M) for helping to make the weekend so much fun, please keep in touch.

Ps,

On returning home it appears that I have mislaid my contract for the 44K F/O position, anyone seen it.
;)

The AOT website is at www.aotraining.net

[EricTheRed]

Having cut short a skiing holiday to get onto this course, I can honestly say that it was well worth the effort. We all came away from the 2 day event with renewed vigour, knowing not just how to succeed in interviews and group exercises but, more importantly, how NOT to present ourselves to a potential employer!

You equipped yourself with a commercial flying licence by getting through flight tests and exams - now equip yourself with the skills required to actually sell yourself into airline employment!

The AOT course represents far more than just a tick in a box.

My sincerest thanks to the presenters, organisers and participants for making the weekend so enjoyable.

Keep in touch!

ETR

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I commend both of you on doing something pro-active to enhance your career prospects. I am going to try to be open minded. But.

For £300 plus travel and accom expenses what did you get that you could not have gotten from a PPRuNe Wannabes seminar - cost £10?

The Wannabes seminars were set up orginally because senior PPRuNe members - who are somewhat high up in the aviation stratosphere - were being asked to attend Wannabe functions on a commercial basis and they noticed that people were making a healthy profit from them.

If you are content with the money you spent then that is fair enough. To a point. I hate to see people take money off Wannabes for any advice. As far as possible it should be free because there are so many pilots out there with the goodwill to offer it for nothing. The Balpa employment conference for example is a good deal as the fees go only to hire the venue and associated costs. The speakers are on company time.

The PPRuNe Wannabe Seminars are £10 and that is to cover the room hire. Everyone who is on hand is there for free from goodwill. As impressive as the AOT team may be they are nothing that cannot have been found at the last Wannabes day at the Christmas Gatbash... plus more fo those interested in the Military, Flying Instruction or perhaps ATC career paths...

I wish AOT luck. They are honest people offering an honest product at a price. If you are happy with that price then it seems the product comes with recommendations. But, if you can't afford the price there are perfectly viable alternatives..

Cheers guys and best of luck with the job hunting,

WWW

[CliffordAgius]

WWW I strongly disagree!!!!

I attended the AOT course over the easter break and think that the course not only gave valuble information but also put you through a mock interview day.

This was all given by very qualified, NO Actual training captains and interview team members for a major airline. It was also very personnal giving almost one on one training for a period of 2 days including the pep talks in the evening and over breakfast. So if the PPRUNER's aare offering this for £10 then how many turn up get that sort of service not that many i think.

I don't want to put down the good work the PPrune are doing it's great and cheap but for a more personnal and indepth touch then I will strongly recommend the AOT team to anyone.

Oh and before you ask I have attended a PPrune bash and did get some information but it took a while to get throught to the people i wanted to talk to.

So WWW please don't knock it until you have tried it these guys are ofering a service which I feel is reasonably priced and great for all us wannabes.

Thats my Ten pence worth!! :rolleyes:

Oh and hi to all the other attendees, go to dash I should be revising exams in three days!!! :( :( :(

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Clifford - no not knocking it. Just raising a few reservations. If you were happy then fine. More reports of being so will only help their booking figures...

WWW

[CliffordAgius]

I thought the course was great and I am still doing my ATPL ground exams.

The great thing is the free offer to return for brush up's if you have an interview soon.

Highly recommended!!!

[+7-5G]

I would like to reiterate the words of Timmy, Clifford and Eric, and add a few of my own.
The course is very professionally run, thoroughly enjoyable and very personal. It does not matter how cocky and confident you are, everybody can do with some constructive criticism, even WWW.
Yes, the services PPRuNe, Balpa and the like offer are invaluable, in fact Maggie Thirlway from Balpa attended day one and gave a short talk, but it takes a while to glean all the information. You can get it in one weekend from AOT.

I must add that the information is only a small part of it. It is the practice, exposure and feedback, which for me were the most useful. At any one time you could have up to 4 of the AOT team assessing you.
If you have got this far in your training £300 is a small price to pay, and in my opinion was worth every penny. If you have never attended a selection process, or have been unsuccessful in the past, it will be invaluable.

Thank you to the AOT team, hello and good luck to all those who attended:)

[salapilot]

WWW does have a point, but the advice is not always readily available. The seminars only happen every so often. With AOT it's almost once a month. I haven't attended one of the weekends,but did get some one to one coaching from one of the AOT guy's. I must admit it was worth it in terms of building my confidence up which has been lacking.

Hey WWW why not set up some sort of support for wannabes so they can contact FO's or Captains when they are coming up for an interview. Give them a nominal fee and some towards the Prune fund..... just a thought.

Sp

[Bernoulli Belle]

I too was on the course over Easter, and yes £300 was not an easy sum to find after several months of job hunting. However, any pre-course scepticism was immediately dispelled and I can highly recommend making the investment. There were two delegates to one ‘instructor’; in addition Maggie from BALPA was there, plus a CRM expert and a F/O from another major airline. Tell me where else you would get that kind of personal treatment (hell it was almost one to one)? These people had given up their probably cherished days off to spend the weekend with a bunch of wannabees – yes they get paid, but after paying for the venue, I doubt that they had much change to split between them. I had to ask myself ‘why are these people doing this’ because I can safely say it is not all for the money. By the way, the venue was excellent.

I for one have come away with renewed enthusiasm for approaching the airlines which, having read some of the postings on this site, is something that a lot of wannabees need. Most of all though, I now have the confidence to go through any airline selection process – I know which technical areas to concentrate on, how to respond to those horrible ‘scenario’ type questions, I know exactly what is involved in psychometric testing and how to make the most of my performance in group exercises. Each of us had personal feedback and believe me there was never any bull****ting. It was totally honest and open.

On top of all this, AOT have plans afoot to act as a kind of recruitment ‘agency’, I guess a little like BALPA’s pilot pool (I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong). It’s early days yet with AOT, but I think it will be a great success. We all know how important personal contacts are in this industry – that’s what’s going to get you the job. The guys from AOT are spending the next 10 days or so writing personal reports on eight of us wannabees so I think they should know us pretty well by then!

I’ve said my piece. Go to their web sit (first posting) to find out more.

[+7-5G]

Well put Bernoulli.:)

[EricTheRed]

I can only repeat the sentiment of my fellow delegates - the course was well worth the money.

I see nothing wrong with publicly praising a good organisation on PPrune. It's a refreshing change when so much bashing goes on from day to day on this forum. If this gets AOT some more clients, then it's because they deserve it.

WWW's point is noted and I look forward to a bit of networking at one of his PPrune bashes.

Why don't the flight training organisations include something like this with their 509 or modular courses? Would have been nice!

Happy hunting.

ETR

[Governormalfunction]

I attended the first AOT course, and I also found the course very valuable and informative. I have recommended the course to a number of people, and will continue to do so. I wish you all luck, but not too much, as I need work as well!

[Timmy O'Tool]

For those to whom we are eternally grateful reside in the Stratosphere and choose to criticise its only £270.00 for IPA members. :D

Which means that BALPA are playing catch up again. :o

[P.Pilcher]

I attended the AOT course some time ago as a guest lecturer and was most impressed. We have been for a while and will be for some time to come in a situation where there are many more wannabees than jobs for them. Although some of the information on the course is available for a fraction of the cost elsewhere, they are providing hands on, 1 to1 interview practice conducted by people who hire pilots in real life. Although I believe other similar courses are available elsewhere, a cost of £300 is a small price to pay on top of current loans to be best placed to get a position ahead of other applicants under the current circumstances.

[Blighty Pilot]

I attended the very first course in January and really enjoyed it. More importantly I found it very benificial.:D :D

[Thoroughly Nice Bloke...]

What dates are the August course please...?

[whats the vector victor]

O.K let me throw this in.

Is this not just a couple of airline pilots cashing in on the current employment situation?

[Blighty Pilot]

Just a quick note to say if anybody is serious about getting to know the definate do's and the definate don'ts about interview techniques, psychometric testing, crm or group excersizes I recommend they consider the weekend of the 10th/11th or think about it for the future.

[mrzippo]

WT Vector Victor

'Is this not just a couple of airline pilots cashing in on the current employment situation?'

Definately not.
For a start there are a bunch of them, giving up their weekends to do so, not to mention the guest speakers.
They have invested much time and effort in comprehensively desigining the course, hiring the venue etc etc and only accept a small amount of peeps per course.
I imagine any profit to be small and very hard earned.

Regards
zippo
ps.
No vested interest, just a satisfied punter. (Now employed!)

:)

[whats the vector victor]

OK I am not knocking these peoples efforts but is all the information you get really worth £300?

Somebody mentioned in an early post that 'it is not just another tick in a box'. Too right it is not, it is not worth anything.

My beef here is that you spend all your money and time to get properly qualified and somebody then invents another scheme for you to jump on in the hope that it will make you more employable.

I don't blame people for trying but wannabes need to stop funding this sort of thing. CTC, Oxford etc all want to take huge amounts of cash off people to give the Airlines a hand in assessing the training risks and it stinks.

W T V V.

[mrzippo]

WT Vector Victor
It is not compulsory and I somehow dont quite think a tick in the box is what its all about.
If you are a recruitment expert or have breezed through multiple interviews with ease then dont attend.
On the otherhand, if you are lacking in interview skills or even just wondering what they are all about (heads up) then do attend.

OK £300 is a lot of wonga to anyone and I didnt get the job as a direct result of attending, but it allowed me to go to interview more relaxed/prepared etc etc..ie...did no harm and will serve well for future reference.


ps. spending money to get qualified in my opinion entitles one to absolutely zilch.
Harold Shipman could probably breeze through flight training but would you give him a job?
:rolleyes:

[EricTheRed]

WTVV,

I can see where you're coming from and fully understand how it feels to be in a situation where a considerable pile of cash has been invested in training, only for there to be no work at the end of it and, to feel that more money is being prised out of you for dubious purposes.

What I found, was that I had started to lose faith in myself and to imagine that I had no work because of some deficiency in my own personality or ability as a pilot. Attending the AOT course helped me to realise that I was a worthwhile and employable individual and, although I'm not employed yet, showed me that maintaining a truly positive attitude was the only way to survive the airline industry downturn.

It's easy to start feeling bitter and resentful toward the industry, after so much effort without result - been there and done that.

What's more, there may well be some unscrupulous individuals and organisations around, who have a predelection for relieving desperate wanabees of their money - AOT weren't like that, although I had considered this possibility beforehand! I couldn't have been further from the truth!

My original comments are somewhere in this thread and I stand by them.

In conclusion, if you're feeling pretty p1ssed off with the whole business and you can get 300 quid together, this course will make you feel very much better about yourself and your ability to get a job when things improve, in my honest opinion.

Hang on in there!
:rolleyes:
ETR

[Timmy O'Tool]

Eric well said mate, my sentiments precisely.

I was thinking of flying up next weekend for game of snooker and a beer with the boys…

You around…?

[Goldfinger]

Say edding, if there is still an offer of accommodation in the sunny midlands next weekend, would be more than interested. I'm travelling up for the whole AOT weekend.

email me pdq

Thanks

Goldfinger

:D :D :D

[Monkeyvom]

Thats strange. :confused:

Quite a few of the usernames promoting the AOT course due to their recent positive experiences on the said weekend, seem to appear frequently else where on PPRuNe as experienced, employed crew.

Dont be as daft as to leave your arses hanging in the air gents, if you insist on self promotion.

[Timmy O'Tool]

Monkey

Five people have posted that attended the Easter course and I know the other four, so what or who are you on about… :rolleyes:

[Grace Quirrel]

Hello to you all,

I am by no means writing to encourage anyone to promote or say otherwise about AOT. Those people who have been on the course as paying attendees are the people to talk the course up or down. I can assure you that the integrity of the people who are responsible for running the course are both to charge for their time as well as to ensure that attendees get what they are paying for. This is in brief a full UNDERSTANDING and PRACTICE of what to expect at the JOB interview stage. Of course licenses come at a cost, but having shelled out thousands of pounds, you surely now want to have the best possible chance to get the job over all the other applicants. In my opinion this is the best product on the market in its field and if you should disagree then tell me you have attended this and a better course, and name the other course and tell me that it was superior in its content and execution. Surely this will benefit all those querying AOT.

No, I am not a founder of AOT!

[whats the vector victor]

The difficulty with the industry is actually getting an interview. I have a job and it was the first interview I had after nearly two years of looking.
I am not questioning the integrity of the people running it but if these people are involved in running a major airline and they genuinely want to be helpful they could for starters reply to letters and CVs sent to them and communicate what their entry requirements are.
You can pass all the entry tests have a great CV,bags of confidence but if the interview panel think 'I would not want to work with this guy' you don't stand a chance. Now,for your £300 do you get an honest opinion of your personality? Do they tell you they wouldn't give you a job in a 1000 yrs because you are just too damn weird?

For those on the next course why not ask the main man how many low timers he hires, how many hours he likes,age,experience etc and post on pprune what he says. Now that would be usefull.

[EricTheRed]

WTVV

Hi again - I can confirm that the people at AOT are straight up when it comes to assessing personality. Some are brutally honest, whilst others are a little more subtle!

In answer to your other questions, it would be nice to think that the airline they work for could dish out a goody bag, with a complimentary job in it at the end of the weekend! In reality, however, I think that everybody knows they are there to learn how to get through the recruitment process and NOT to actually get a job there and then.

The "main man" and others will answer your questions about requirements at theirs and other airlines. As you're probably aware, it's a hirer's market at present and the entry requirements for almost any company are highly dynamic - meaning a shortage of jobs equates to higher entry requirements for screening purposes. So, getting to the point again, if I got myself into one of those rare interview situations - I would want to be fully prepared. AOT have helped me enormously in that respect.

Weird personality? Different is not the same as weird. We all have personalities which can, broadly speaking, be defined and categorised. Scary, isn't it!? Different airlines are composed of staff conforming to a certain personality. You could say that there is an airline for each of the personality types. AOT will advise on this issue and coach you on how best to present yourself using your good points.

And finally... regarding airlines replying to letters and CVs, although I've received one or two "kindly" rejection letters out of the whole pile, I don't think that any of them have helped me in any way. So, forgive me if I don't quite get your point there!

I really can't blame you for being so cynical - that's how I was when deciding to part with good money!

Sorry to go on a bit, but that's my thinking on this!

Hi to all the folks who I don't remember having a beer with, after I dropped by on Sat night with Timmy and our P2's!! (and to Stan, Jon, Ted et al).

Cheers,

ETR

[CliffordAgius]

I was on the Easter course as well and to be honest I thought it was great. It helped show me my weaknesses and what I need to work on. I also shows you how tough it will be in the interview these guys asked some real probing questions and set you up for a fall. Then after they told you where you went wrong and how to get out of situations like that.

On top of that it was good to meet and talk to others on the course and the AOT guys about the curretn job situation and how it's starting to turn.

I am still completing my training but I found the course to be worth while and the invite for a free yes FREE refresher when you do manage to get that interview, I don't see many other companies doing that do you.

BUT it's your money and you only get one shot at an interview i think £300 is worth it even if it only helps a bit.

Hi to all the others on the Easter course hope your alll doing well and good luck. Oh I passed my exams and I am just waiting for the results to my second lot wish me luck.