Bonding for commander course

[Dorkmeister]

It's time to move to the left seat. I have been with this company for a while, and I paid for the type rating myself.

Now they want a bond for the captain's check, and the sum is almost the price of a type rating!

What do you think?


Regards
Dorkmeister

[dv8]

With my last company when I swapped seats I talked my way in to counting the existing FO bond which had 18 months to run. In any case the 'command bond' was much less than a type bond

[gurnzee]

If they can prove that it will cost them whatever the 'bond' is, then why not?

[capt waffoo]

Why not, gurnzee? WHY NOT!!!

Because an upgrade training course is a normal expense of running an airline, that's why not.

It is utterly outrageous for a business, any business, to expect an employee to pay for training of any sort, type ratings included, but for an upgrade this is surely ten times worse. If the poor chap has demonstrated his Professionalism and dedication to the company long enough to be selected for command then this "offer" is a no more than a spit in the face imho.

Name me another industry that charges it's employees like this.

Have a care people, we pilots are very, very bad at sticking together when we need to and if we start to give in to this sort of corporate robbery then whats next on the rapacious bean-counters menu? We pay for OPCs perhaps? You can see that, I expect, its a logical progression.

Dorkmeister, have nothing to do with it. It STINKS. Change their minds or move to a decent employer instead.

As the late Frank Zappa said, "Remember folks, there's a difference between leaning forward and bending over!"

Let's not shaft ourselves, please.

[Dorkmeister]

We are a small group selected for upgrade, and I might talk to the others about some coordinated response to the company about this, like we can only accept such and such amount, and period of time to serve.

Is it leagal for the company to make a profit on this, or can they only cover costs ?

Perhaps it is easier to "jump" a bond that the media and public will see as immoral, and is questionable with regards to the law.

Anthony and waffoo; thanks for your support.

[Anthony Carn]

Sorry to harp on , but the purpose of BALPA is , theoretically , to protect and represent every member , even small groups , down to a minimum size of one . As to whether they do anything regarding a subject which they've somehow , arguably , allowed to proliferate anyway is the question . But COMMAND bonding really is , I think , taking the mick ! Surely BALPA must stop this , BUT YOU HAVE TO ASK THEM or they can't act . However , I'm only too well aware of the risk of being branded and treated as a trouble maker .

I've heard two extreme versions of the risk of refusing to pay bonds . One colleague has stated that NO UK airline has EVER pursued a bond , but another colleague states that the potential legal costs involved in losing a bond dispute could easily be financially ruinous .

Wish I could help more .

[Anthony Carn]

If you do pursue this via BALPA , then I suspect that a MUCH LARGER lump of the membership than your group would be interested in how BALPA perform ! Maybe this adds to the effectiveness of your group .

[411A]

Yep....bond for the course, then the management is expected to reward those who do so....and keep 'em. Win-win scenario. IF the guy/gal is already rated....bond anyway, but for a smaller amount. If you treat 'em right...they will not...run away.

[Dorkmeister]

In my mail today:


Hi Dorkmeister,

I do not know what company you fly for, but if it is (deleted...), I would show caution in this forum. You boss might be watching, and if I can put 2+2 together, then so can probably he...



It was sent from an address in the company he mentioned.

[Anthony Carn]

So what if our bosses are watching ? If we say nothing libelous , slanderous or dishonest , then what's the problem ? Perhaps some of our bosses will make constructive use of observing our discussions .

Can anyone suggest a problem ?

Apologies for deviating from topic .

[Blindside]

I am not a professional pilot but have experienced a similar situation. So it is not unique to aviation.

I saw a relatively expensive course run by the Chartered Institute of Marketing - £5.500 worth. I fancied doing it and my employer agreed to fund the course in full as well as give me the appropriate time off for study.

We agreed that I would pay the course fees back to the company on a sliding scale if I left within 2 years. I thought that this was fair.

If the company had not stipulated the clawback arrangement then I could have left the company immediately on completion of the course, they would not have benifited from my improved knowledge and would have been £5k down.

Since completing the course, my earnings from the company have increased, my CV has been enhanced and I've improved myself. Everyones a winner.

Regards

[411A]

You understand BlindSide, that is not what many want to hear on this forum. The pilot says....sure, will accept the upgrade, thanks a lot. Then....so long chaps!
This does not happen all that much but when it does....it tars everyone with the same brush.

[Alpine Flyer]

If you are entitled to an upgrading according to your seniority and the rules of your contract, how could the company force you to sign anything?

If it's your right to be upgraded by seniority, so be it. If you don't have anything like this you should probably try to establish it.....