KLM has lost the plot

[Victor Inox]

I flew KLM for the first time in 25 years again last weekend. I paid some £500 more for the ticket than if I had flown EK or EY on the same route (MAN-CGK-vv.), but Mrs VI keeps reminding me how we should support European businesses.

Following an on-time departure from MAN and a punctual arrival at AMS, our onward flight was delayed about one hour due to a technical problem (intercom between flight deck and cabin). We finally arrived at CGK (with the scheduled stop at KUL) some 45 minutes late.

When the "last bag" sign appeared on the baggage carousel, I began to realize that my money had been poorly spent on the KLM ticket. Things got worse at the baggage service counter, where I was cheerfully informed that my suitcase was still in AMS (not transferred during a 2-hour transit?).

Wouldn't it have been nice to have KL ground staff at CGK informing me that I need not stand at the baggage carousel like an idiot for over an hour and hope to see my suitcase appear?

When I asked for an overnight kit, I was (equally cheerfully) informed that authorization had to be obtained from KL for such an issue, and that I would be informed of whether such authorization had been forthcoming when I check in for my return flight on Friday, 13th July.:ugh:

Is the KLM management based at some mental asylum somewhere?

I shall gladly fly EK, EY or QR again :ok:

[Gibon2]

I paid some £500 more for the ticket than if I had flown EK or EY on the same route

You've got rocks in your head, mate. I'd fly (and have flown) KLM to Asia, but only when it's cheaper or with much better connections than the Gulf or Asian carriers.

Having said that, I sympathize entirely with your sorry experience at the carousel. I've posted about this before: why the hell can't the airline tell you on arrival that your baggage didn't make the connection? After all, they've likely known for many hours. Is it so difficult to have someone at the arrival airport print out a list and stick it on a noticeboard next to the carousel?

Anyway, I have a tip for next time. Why stand waiting at the carousel at all? Instead, go straight to the handling agent and file a missing baggage claim - avoid the queues (after all if your bag didn't make it, likely others are also missing). Then go back to the carousel, and if you're lucky, pick up your baggage. You can cancel the missing claim on the way out, or call/e-mail them later. If your baggage is not there, you've already done the paperwork, so off you go. :ok:

[davidjohnson6]

Gibon - if I were a baggage handling agent, one of the first things I would ask a passenger is the flight they were on - i.e. please produce the baggage tag. If bags for that flight had not yet been completely unloaded, I would very quickly send the passenger back to the carousel and tell them to wait for 30 mins

Baggage handling agents are people just doing a job, and they don't get paid to deal with arrogant passengers who make up fake stories and file fraudulent reports

[riverrock83]

At AMS with KLM the guys at the boarding gate can normally tell you if your bag has made it. I haven't been through AMS for a while, but I have a recollection of different numbers of beeps meaning different things when they scanned your boarding card at the boarding point. Might be wrong...

You are unlucky at AMS - I've regularly had v.short connections with my bag making it through there. I've had much worse at Heathrow (I don't fly as often as I used to - most often when T5 was coming online - but I have an overall 30% success rate of my bags following me through Heathrow!).

For BA long hall I've had my name on bits of paper on the air bridge when leaving the plane saying my bag hasn't made it. What ends up happening is it takes twice as long to leave the plane because everyone is crowding round the print outs...

[PAXboy]

I recall exactly the same thing happening. A domestic hop, then change to the long haul and cross the Atlantic. Due to the connection being late in, I doubted that my bag had made it. Once I saw how many folks were still waiting at the carosul, I knew the answer before the poor admin person arrived to give everyone the surprising news! My how they screamed. My silent scream was exactly the same, 'They knew this 7+ hours ago' because the airline would have known before the 7.5hr flight was even off the ground. If they had made a cabin PA when the doors were opened, they could have saved some PR. My bag arrived the next day (just one rotation on that route) and I was perfectly happy.

That was (just looked up my diary) 1999 and the airline was LH. The connection was from MUC to FRA and on to DTW. So I think I can say that your KLM/AMS experience is par for the course. :rolleyes: It's the lack of antcipation and lack of use of data they already have but, as with many other factors - that takes a little money and a lot of good mgmt. :ooh:

[Victor Inox]

Thanks for your sympathy and advice for the next trip (won't be on KL, though), everybody.

Actually, I happened to be the only person who had connected through AMS left standing at the carousel in CGK. There were two or three others, but they had boarded at KUL.

It's Tuesday morning, 9 a.m., in Indonesia, and I am still without any luggage or, indeed, any information from KL :mad:

[Bushfiva]

Had the same thing AMS-KIX a while back: while disembarking, overheard cabin crew say "wait till they find their baggage hasn't arrived." At the carousel, there were dozens of us without baggage. A couple of guys running around handing out forms and showing people how to fill them out, leaving the non-Japanese till last because the guys had no language skills. Decided to track down someone with a KLM badge, to discover that although the flight lands in the morning, the office isn't open until the afternoon. Took hours to get out because the cretins wouldn't hand out the paperwork en masse: one person at a time, complete form, next person.

Also trying to move cremains, in dialog with an Indian call center with a person who barely understood the language, and wouldn't pass me to another person who had a clue and a vocabulary. The only reason to use KLM is because AMS makes a better regional hub than LHR.

[Victor Inox]

The only reason to use KLM is because AMS makes a better regional hub than LHR.

Probably correct prior to T5.

But what point is having a "better" hub if the d1ckheads can't transfer luggage. It's now exactly two days after my arrival at CGK, and I still have no suitcase. The reference on the manually completed PIR form does not result in any information being available on the KLM baggage tracking site.

What a bunch of w@nkers.

[cavortingcheetah]

Victor Inox.
I'm sitting in the BC lounge at AMS right now 14.30 Dutch time and I will be here for half an hour. If it might help you can send me or pm me the luggage numbers and I can ask the girls at the customer desk if they have an update on them. It's a long shot but?

[Metro man]

I paid some £500 more for the ticket than if I had flown EK or EY on the same route

And helped to keep the inefficient Air France/KLM group afloat. GBP500 is better in my pocket than someone else's. I would need a VERY good reason to spend that much more money.

If the alternative is something like Biman Bangladesh then I would understand, perhaps it's worth spending extra if it saves you on hotel accommodation with convenient arrival and departure times ie you can check in/out at normal times instead of paying for a whole night you don't use.

It may be worth sticking to a particular airline or alliance if you fly often enough to acquire and use frequent flyer miles or increase your status in the program.

Singapore Airlines and QATAR also do Jakarta one stop from Manchester.

[L'aviateur]

Honestly, I think you could subsitute 'KLM' for pretty much any airline in existance with that story. You rarely expect much more from any of them, except 'some' of the 5 star airlines.

[radeng]

Over the years I've been reading Pprune, I cannot remember anyone having anything good to say about KLM, especially for connections via AMS.

As a result - possibly somewhat unfairly - KLM is on my personal list of 'Airlines not to use'.

[Exascot]

I cannot remember anyone having anything good to say about KLM

Add me to the list.

[PAXboy]

I have not had cause to use KLM for more than ten years (as far as I can recall) and placed them lower down my list - the moment that they joined AF.

[Victor Inox]

A very special thanks to Cavortingcheetah who kindly tried to get sense out of KLM whilst in the lounge at Schipol yesterday.

It emerged that the baggage service agent in CGK lied to me when I filed my PIR. She assured me that my case was still in AMS and would be on the next flight out (24 hours later). It now turns out that my case did leave AMS but was offloaded at an intermediate stop in KUL.

In addition, the file number was not properly entered on the PIR, which is why I was unable to track it online.

I have still had no direct information from KL either by email or by phone as to when my suitcase will make it to CGK.:yuk:

How do such people qualify for an AOC? You would think that a demonstrated ability to deliver both pax and baggage safely would be the first requirement.

[parabellum]

Your bag should have come down from KUL on a 'Rush' tag, there are several flights A DAY! At CGK you should have insisted on seeing the KLM station manager, if they have one. Many airlines will give you funds for toiletries and some clean underwear, I am surprised KLM didn't offer this.

[ConstantFlyer]

I cannot remember anyone having anything good to say about KLM

Sorry to disappoint you, but I have flown KLM several times in the last year, mostly with a transit at AMS. Intervals between flights have ranged from around 1h15 to 3h45. All flights arrived and left on time, and my checked-through luggage made it every time.

I hope this doesn't mean my luck has now run out and the next trip will be awful.....!!

By the way, if you do have time between flights at Schiphol, the satay chicken from Hot Wox in the Food Court is actually rather delicious.

[Victor Inox]

At CGK you should have insisted on seeing the KLM station manager, if they have one. Many airlines will give you funds for toiletries and some clean underwear, I am surprised KLM didn't offer this.

There was no one with any KLM badge to be seen in arrivals. The baggage service is run by JAS, who handle almost all airlines. Their agent told me that they could only issue even an overnight kit with approval from KLM and that she would have to obtain this "via the system". With a straight face she said I would be informed about whether or not the approval had been obtained when I check in for my return flight on Friday! (I am not kidding!).


Your bag should have come down from KUL on a 'Rush' tag, there are several flights A DAY! At CGK you should have insisted on seeing the KLM station manager, if they have one. Many airlines will give you funds for toiletries and some clean underwear, I am surprised KLM didn't offer this.

I have been sitting in Bandung since Sunday night, and - as your rightly point out - they would have had multiple opportunities to "rush" my suitcase down from KUL, but this requires the willpower and corporate philosophy to actually do something. I have not been contacted via email or via phone by anyone from the airline in what is now more than 72 hours since my departure.

Absolute :mad: ****e airline.

[dubh12000]

I'm going to suggest something a lot might disagree with, but if you are on Facebook, get your complaint up on their Facebook page.

[radeng]

ConstantFlier

There's an exception to every rule!

[Victor Inox]

My suitcase finally turned up at the hotel today (whilst I was out on business).

Thank you to everyone for their moral support and especially to Cavortingcheetah for his kind help at AMS.

:ok:

[cavortingcheetah]

A pleasure to attempt to help a fellow wrinkled plum and delighted that in spite of my efforts, your bag turned up. Happy tripping.....my turn next I expect.

[c2lass]

You have my sympathy. How awful though not to even get an overnight bag and that they needed authority for this. Where is customer service?

Happened to us on a flight ABZ-MUC via AMS a couple of years ago. Off for a week's holiday in Bavaria, arrived at MUC to be told both our bags had not arrived.

They did give us emergency kits and did give us 50 euros each for emergency items. As this was a Sat afternoon and we had trains to get to our final destination, we had no choice but to buy emergency items at the airport. Big mistake, my replacement underwear (two items) in Esprit cost 50 euros :mad:

Then things went gradually downhill. The tracking on the website did not work at all. We were originally told our bags would arrive on the Sunday. We stayed in most of the day to wait. No bags. Tracking still not working, gave no information whatsoever. Phoned and was told they were in MUC and we would have our bags on Monday. Monday came and went, no bags. Nobody could tell us where our bags were and when we would get them. They eventually arrived Tuesday afternoon by DPD. Not ideal when you are on a weeks holiday in a small Bavarian town with absolutely none of your personal belongings.

I did complain when I got home and they sent us 20 euros per person off next flight. Well I made sure I used that for our next flight and what a carry on it was to use it. I ended up having to post the vouchers to AMS by registered mail to use them. Think it cost me as much as the discount with all the phone calls and postage.

[bobward]

Last year I had 45 minutes between arriving at Amsterdam and boarding my onward flight. It's the first time I've had to run across an airport, dragging wife behind. We made the flight and so did our bags. Maybe you were just very unlucky - my sympathy.

As for Shy's comments - well, hardly polite of sympathetic I think. Bode's well for a career in customer services perhaps?:)


(Please don't take offence Shy, for 'twas meant in good humour!)

[SLFguy]

This thread has struck a chord!

Three weeks ago we had 45mins to connect an ABZ - AMS flight to an AMS - OTP (Bucharest) departure. We arrived in Bucharest sans baggage :{

It was delivered to our hotel, (3 hours away in Constanta), 2 days later so we had time to 'not unpack' before we returned the next day. :(

Upshot is that this Sunday she is insisting that we get the 0600 ABZ - AMS so they have 3 hours or so to transfer the bags to the 1215 AMS - OTP flight :sad:

[dufc]

I'm another ABZ-based passenger who avoids KLM like the plague.

Years of hassles and Customer Service (an Orwellian title in this context) who see 'No' as the answer to everything and wilfully ignore issues raised hoping that they will go away.

The problem we face in this geographic area is that we pretty much only have three hubs to chose from in AMS, LHR and CDG. Lufthansa may well offer a future alternative but not for me at the moment.

Of the three CDG and Air France are the least worst alternative. Isn't that an awful thing to have to say?

Won't bore you with my KLM stories but clearly they see SLF as something to be endured and ignored much as their sister company AF now seems hell bent on copying.

[c2lass]

dufc, just wonder why you have not used Lufthansa? Since they launched last year this now opens up with FRA as another hub. We used them earlier this year with flights ABZ-AUH via FRA and they were excellent.

Totally agree with you re KLM and customer service, it is pretty poor and yes they do like the word "no".:(

[ConstantFlyer]

I've a rather unusual talent for an Englishman, I suppose: I speak fluent Dutch. I must say this has helped in my interactions with KLM staff over the years. I speak the language well enough for them to feel comfortable talking to me in their language, and while most Dutch people speak some English, and many very well, some of them do think they speak it better than they actually do.

What some fail to appreciate is the subtlety and understatement that native English speakers naturally use in everyday speech. We also make extensive use of eye and face movements to communicate displeasure which differ from those used by non-native speakers, including the straight-speaking Dutch.

It's just my impression, but this may have helped me communicate any difficulties to customer service staff in a way they may have differently understood to the same sentiments expressed in an English they had thought they grasped but not entirely had.

Dutch is a much easier language to learn than, say, French or German. It's the closest related foreign language to English, and once you've learnt the funny 'g' sound (= gentle throat clearing), the grammar and vocab are quite straightforward.

[AdamFrisch]

All the European "national" carriers are rather bad. BA is terrible, Air France and KLM, Alitalia. SAS shaping up slightly, but their intercontinental route is rubbish. Lufthansa can be OK, but I've also had terrible experiences. The only shining star amongst them is Turkish Airlines - they're really shaping up to be a premium airline. And their route network is great.

[Victor Inox]

It's just my impression, but this may have helped me communicate any difficulties to customer service staff in a way they may have differently understood to the same sentiments expressed in an English they had thought they grasped but not entirely had.

And what part of "godverdomme" do you think they don't understand? :ugh:

[winter959]

MAN-CGK is an absolute no-brainer when it comes to flight booking. SQ all the way.

[Hotel Tango]

Dutch is a much easier language to learn than, say, French or German.

Slight thread drift, sorry. As one who speaks fluent French and lived in The Netherlands more years than I care to disclose I personally don't go along with that statement. I'd say that Dutch is a fairly difficult language to learn. However, once you've mastered (if you ever do) it it will help you a great deal in understanding German.