Anyone You Know?

[Sunfish]

"A: In the majority of cases, the target of bullying is eliminated through forced resignation, unfair dismissal, or early or ill-health retirement whilst the bully is promoted. After a short interval of between two and 14 days, the bully selects another target and the cycle restarts. Sometimes another target is selected before the current target is eliminated.
Bully at Work – Interview with Tim Field by Dr. Sam Vaknin Business Correspondent – United Press International"

""Babiak found that these organizational shake-ups created a welcoming environment for the corporate killer. "The psychopath has no difficulty dealing with the consequences of rapid change; in fact, he or she thrives on it," Babiak claims. "Organizational chaos provides both the necessary stimulation for psychopathic thrill seeking and sufficient cover for psychopathic manipulation and abusive behavior."

"Manipulative? Louis B. Mayer was said to be a better actor than any of the stars he employed at MGM, able to turn on the tears at will to evoke sympathy during salary negotiations with his actors. Callous? Henry Ford hired thugs to crush union organizers, deployed machine guns at his plants, and stockpiled tear gas. He cheated on his wife with his teenage personal assistant and then had the younger woman marry his chauffeur as a cover. Lacking empathy? Hotel magnate Leona Helmsley shouted profanities at and summarily fired hundreds of employees allegedly for trivialities, like a maid missing a piece of lint. Remorseless? Soon after Martin Davis ascended to the top position at Gulf & Western, a visitor asked why half the offices were empty on the top floor of the company's Manhattan skyscraper. "Those were my enemies," Davis said. "I got rid of them." Deceitful? Oil baron Armand Hammer laundered money to pay for Soviet espionage. Grandiosity? Thy name is Trump."

Narcissists in Business and Government - NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY DISORDER (http://forum2.aimoo.com/narcissisticpersonalitydisorder/THE-NARCISSIST-Read-Only/Narcissists-in-Business-and-Government-1-223063.html)



"

[flying_a_nix_box]

.....a former so called team leader of mine.........:mad:

[Trojan1981]

I once knew an Army Officer who worked along these lines, but one day he targeted the wrong person. One of his soldiers (admitedly not the sharpest tool) was having some personal problems and the officer took full advantage; slowly screwing him from every angle and eventually had him discharged.

Well that's about when said paratrooper snapped. I have never seen anyone more scared for their life than when this discharged ex-paratrooper came for him, and I've seen some scared people! The bloke started by shooting the mirrors off the officers car as he sat in it in his driveway; and escalated to buring his boat and parts of his house (the police had been unable to apprehend him at this stage). It all finally ended in a chase that saw the terrified officer lock himself in his office, hiding under his desk, while the ex-soldier (carrying a Remmington 870) searched for him. Luckily for the officer the police SPG managed to apprehend the soldier before he found him.

Needless to say, said officer is a changed man. That should also be a lesson to workplace bullies; sometimes you'll get away with it, but eventually someone will make you pay.

[Anthill]

The workplace bully is often a charasmatic person and uses this trait as a cover for their mis-deeds.

I worked with a woman ( who held a quasi-supervisory role) who was the quintessential workplace bully:

She would smile in your face and joke with you and then walk off and stab you in the back. She did this to most other staff, whether they realize this or not.
Undermined her bosses and co-workers by spreading false rumours and gossip about their professional and private lives.
Sought to create distrust among the staff regarding dealings with management, saying that they had no integrity etc and yet was on the 'phone to headquarters on a daily basis giving the bosses "feedback" on her co-workers.
Frequently divulged confidential work-performance information regarding other staff so as to have them held in ridicule and contempt.
Went out of her way to flirt with the new owner and then tell everyone that he was a "creep" and a "sleaze".
With the support of some other staff compiled a list of people who the new owner should get rid of in order to "save the company". Funny how her direct supervisor 's name was on this list.
Got busted and sacked for all of the above but still managed to convince most of her workmates that she was the 'victim'.
Oddly, so many of her ex-coworkers go on about what a wonderful woman she was. :sad:

Yep. I actually held this lady in high regard until the following happend:

She was involved in an event at work. She told me that she applied CPR to an individual and saved their life. This turned out to be bull****. Some one else did. Independant witnesses described her behaviour as "in a panic".

The bully asked me to spread a rumour about another person who was peripheral to this incident. The behaviour of this person as described by the bully was outrageous. I later thought about this and realized that I had no direct knowledge of the event-only the bully's word for it, which I was increasingly doubting.

What she had asked me to do was to spread stories about this person and ostracize them. I was also asked to encourage others not to deal with this person and make them feel uncomfortable until they left the company. This person was to be avoided, ignored and isolated, according to said bully.

I refused to do this and, naturally, wound up on her **** list. She later applied for a job at an organisation where I subsequently worked. Her application was unsuccessful :ok:

[Defenestrator]

Geez Anthill. Thats a remarkably close description of the following individual.

When confronted regarding the conniving, deceitful, untruthful, harassing and cowardly behaviour that had been his modus operandi, and given an opportunity to correct his behaviour, the gutless wonder chose to hand in his resignation. Furthermore, tried to paint himself as the victim. Did me a favour in the long run. Good riddance.

D:yuk:

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

Tim Fields website is an excellent resource in helping tackle and win against the bullies. Although not easy and often it is a legal win after leaving the company.

Bully OnLine: Tim Field shares his unique insight into workplace bullying, a cause of stress and ill health and the basis of harassment, discrimination, prejudice, abuse and violence (http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/index.htm)

I have posted this link before and as Sunfish created a new thread it is worth reposting for anybody needing help.

[mattyj]

That's why the strangest people end up in supervisory / decision making positions ..and the top blokes with real people skills never do..

..and subsequently the company doesn't ever quite reach the levels it could/should

[Horatio Leafblower]

Couple of great books by Robert Sutton

"Good Boss, Bad boss"
- talks about how to deal with the corporate psychopath, both as boss and employee

"The no ass hole rule"
- great philosophy

[Seabreeze]

I came across another aussie authored book recently:

Preventing Workplace Bullying by Carlo Caponecchia & Anne Wyatt, ISBN 9781742373461 - QBD The Bookshop (http://www.qbd.com.au/product/9781742373461-Preventing_Workplace_Bullying_by_Carlo_Caponecchia_Anne_Wyat t.htm)

SB

[multime]

Mines been dealt with FWA.
A payout.
Dosesn,t take away their guilt, they call it a redundancy.???:mad:
Gave up my life and a marriage. No one wins except the CEO.
Regards
Multi

[cam]

A wise sergeant once told me something that I live by, and that is "the toes that you tread on today may very well be attached to the butt that you have to kiss tomorrow" Its a small world out there

[Sarcs]

Top post/thread Sunfish and a topic that I believe is endemic across the industry. It is also a subject that has affected me personally/financially/professionally and I'm still searching for the light at the end of the tunnel....at least I haven't succumb to the serious risk of irretrievable chronic depression. So be warned those who are contemplating this mob: http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/489870-aerorescue-2012-t-cs.html

This disease, I believe, has far more serious implications if allowed to go unchecked within the aviation industry. This is without a doubt one reason why we're seeing lower standards of professionalism across all sectors of the industry.

The next pilot shortage will be in the area of experienced/skilled professionals as that brethren decide it's "all to hard" and elect to gracefully exit the industry. The bully boys being bred in middle and upper airline management are trying to enforce these 'mentors of the industry' to try an accept a lowering of personal safety and flight standards to reduce costs. Some middle level companies that I know of give out bonuses to middle mangement for cost savings to the training budget.

The following is a quote from Angelorange, which I've also posted in this thread: http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/468048-senate-inquiry-hearing-program-4th-nov-2011-a-20.html

“Angelorange” said: “…We know there were many factors aggravating the situation but responsibility lies with the pilots, the airline, the manufacturer, the training system and the regulators. How much will be judged to have the greater share will depend on honesty, openness and sadly politics. I hope we can learn from the mistakes made and ensure a safer flying future by improving pilot selection, training, and mentoring, developing CRM/SMS so it is of real value and not a box ticking , white-wash exercise. I think this more than adequately represents the moral dilemma facing the aviation industry in Oz. Which is all the more reason that there should be no room for a bully boy, narcissistic approach to anything remotely aviation, there is plenty of evidence in the crash comics of why this philosophy doesn't work.

However the instances of this bully boy/narcissistic philosophy isn't limited to certain operators, it is also (almost) gleefully embraced as 'ops normal' by our very own regulator. You only need scroll through some of the 'Show Cause' AAT hearings or Coroner reports to see the workings of the biggest 'kid on the block!'

[Pa28200]

Unfortunatley this seems to be an epidemic across all industries.
My better half and i are astounded with all the lip service given to trying to stamp out bullying, that when it does happen you are totally alone with only one option and that is to resign.
Our brief experience as follows (but in the boating industry) the said individual ( the best name i can think to call him in public) was unbelievably appointed by a group of directors although it was wel known to all including them his bullying history, poor work ethic and usless managment skills they decided to continue against everyones warnings ( you really can not find one person in this area that has any thing but bad words to say about him), any way the Managing Director resigned his position over it and reverted to being non managing director, and you guessed it, another bully steps up from the director ranks to support the appointment.
Long story shortend my wife applys for and appointed the office manager and does amazing things to turn the business in the right direction said bully rewards her with dumping his work so he can focus on his outside non work related activitys, and then the swearing and belittleing start in front of other employees and also to other employees. despite many complaints to the directors from all levels of staff, nothing was done.
After numerous tear filled nights and stress at home i sent my wife to the doctor to have it offically recorded ( not for compansation) we then decided to make more formally to all the directors her complaint also on behalf of all the staff, Bully MD conducts offical investigation specific staff are happy to bear formal witness, despite all this the bully! not guilty everones imagination at work, guess what happened to 2 witness sorry no more work for you, for us and many others we just walk away, for the business it lost the majority of experienced personell the rest are counting the days and have planned their departure leaving a skeleton of a company, now trading very poorly and in this economy wont be able to reserect itself, the staff that have departed are happy now as is my wife. Guess what the bully is doing!, well really from day 1 he was only using them and has himself set up for a more political postion and will totaly shaft the company, at least they were warned.
What would we do in the future? walk away at the first sign of trouble, that is all you can do about it and keep you sanity and health.

[Ejector]

I have been out of the loop with this mob for the last couple of years, anyone know if they wanna be military neo nazis are still stirring the pot? :ugh:

[SgtBundy]

I was in the middle of a situation at my former employer (non-aviation industry, but a major company) that showed me the truth of how companies handle these situations. Hint, HR is for the company, not the employees.

We had a co-worker promoted to manager of our team. Another co-worker was a mate of his for some time and according to him had covered up for a number of this new managers "romantic indiscretions" in the past. I had no direct knowledge of this, but seeing his behaviour when on the drink it seemed plausible, he went for anything female like a bull at a gate despite being in a relationship. The story I was told was one time the mate was non the wiser that he was being used as an alibi, and innocently said "he's not here" when the managers wife called one time. She caught on which then went into divorce proceedings. The manager then blamed this on my co-worker, believing he was dobbed in for some reason (despite the co-worker having no motivation to do so nor any evidence that this was the case).

From there things went down hill. The manager pulled his overtime, starting taking projects from him, hired a new worker with the specific skills to replace the targeted co-worker. When ordered to train someone else on his work, he tried but the trainee was thrown in too early and when the co-worker helped save the day he was given a dressing down for getting involved. The manager was caught trying to prove the co-worker was not working his claimed hours by checking his login times. At annual review he was suddenly dropped from several years of second top level to an unsatisfactory level. The co-worker clearly knew he was getting retribution for the perceived grievance so he escalated it.

Here is where it went wrong, HR did not get involved, but the next level of management did. All they did was back up the new manager. I am not really sure why it was handled this way, but there was some claims of vested interest in this middle manager getting involved. With little progress and more and more aggression on both sides (both the co-worker and new manager were hot heads) things escalated up the chain.

By the time HR did get involved their position was to cover up for management and not actually resolve anything. Their stupid solution was to slightly change reporting lines into a non-working arrangement. There was nothing done to address the bullying by the manager, they just tried to find ways to justify managements positions in the matter or ways to shunt the worker to another team. By this point the co-worker was a wreck - he was stressed, angry, upset that his real work effort was being overridden by this and on the verge of a breakdown. I knew him as a pretty tough nut, but I saw this actually reduce him to tears. Myself and two co-workers had witnessed most of this from the sidelines, and admittedly had most of the information from the co-worker, but knew the manager enough to know who was telling the truth. We went to a separate part of HR together to try and back him up and get it resolved - again nothing happened.

Eventually the guy went on stress leave under workcover and consulted a lawyer. They were so confident in the bullying case they were prepared to go pro-bono, and that was before the worker was accidentally copied on an email that showed 4 levels of management and HR collaborating in an illegal performance management exercise about him (I was there when I saw the manager who sent it desperately trying to recall the email). Once they found out he was consulting a lawyer they pulled his company access, I am talking in minutes here, and put him on some strange sick leave setup (they knew firing him at this point was legal suicide).

In the end the only resolution was for him to leave, but that was also part of his legal support getting a 6 figure settlement for him. The manager stayed on and one by one isolated his entire team with the same psychotic crap - tantrums, abuse, openly blaming failures on specific team members to other managers. Even the one guy who backed him up through the original bullying issue ended up turning his back and seeing the truth eventually.

I later got a better offer and openly told some of the managers involved that the companies handling of the bullying issue reinforced my decision to leave. The whole episode taught me a few things:

1. Document everything, and keep it away from work.
2. Don't forget HR work for the company - their interest is to ensure the company does not get in trouble, not that everyone is happy.
3. Legal advice can be invaluable - it can put a lot of power in your corner if necessary, but don't wave it as a threat, that just forces them to react.
4. While it may feel wrong , walking away may give you your life back.
5. Your work record means nothing under a vindictive asshat.

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

SgtBundy very good account. Your 5 points are essential advice. My situation played out very similarly including emails.

Tim Fields site has more warnings on taking complaints to HR.

[Sunfish]

Agree 100% with Sgt. Bundy.

Additional tips:

- Keep copies, memory sticks, etc. In a safe place off site. Give it to a friend to keep for you. Employers have arranged warrants and searches before now. Do this on a regular basis, you never know when your turn will come.

- Do not EVER use your work computer for anything but work. Keep your private correspondance on a home machine and keep a backup offsite. Most especially, don't Google "Unfair dismissal", etc. on your work computer.

- In conversations with other employees don't EVER bitch about a manager. Always be the loyal guy taking the company line/following the company spin as far as possible. If you must criticise, use "HR speak" = "gaps". "opportunities for improvement". etc.

- If you are a participant in management, keep a daily workbook. I used an A4 Spirax. It is an aide memoir and I jotted meetings details outcomes conversations and important stuff as it happened. SIgn and date each page and note the time of the discussion/decision/meeting. When push comes to shove, this is your "log book". They are removed when full and taken home. I have some Thirty of mine in storage. About once a year I get a telephone call "Do you remember..XXX....?" out comes the relevant book.

Q: How did I learn this?

A: Painfully.

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

The serial bully:


is a convincing, practised liar and when called to account, will make up anything spontaneously to fit their needs at that moment
has a Jekyll and Hyde nature - is vile, vicious and vindictive in private, but innocent and charming in front of witnesses; no-one can (or wants to) believe this individual has a vindictive nature - only the current target of the serial bully's aggression sees both sides; whilst the Jekyll side is described as "charming" and convincing enough to deceive personnel, management and a tribunal, the Hyde side is frequently described as "evil"; Hyde is the real person, Jekyll is an act
excels at deception and should never be underestimated in their capacity to deceive
uses excessive charm and is always plausible and convincing when peers, superiors or others are present (charm can be used to deceive as well as to cover for lack of empathy)
is glib, shallow and superficial with plenty of fine words and lots of form - but there's no substance
is possessed of an exceptional verbal facility and will outmanoeuvre most people in verbal interaction, especially at times of conflict
is often described as smooth, slippery, slimy, ingratiating, fawning, toadying, obsequious, sycophantic
relies on mimicry, repetition and regurgitation to convince others that he or she is both a "normal" human being and a tough dynamic manager, as in extolling the virtues of the latest management fads and pouring forth the accompanying jargon
is unusually skilled in being able to anticipate what people want to hear and then saying it plausibly
cannot be trusted or relied upon
fails to fulfil commitments
is emotionally retarded with an arrested level of emotional development; whilst language and intellect may appear to be that of an adult, the bully displays the emotional age of a five-year-old
is emotionally immature and emotionally untrustworthy
exhibits unusual and inappropriate attitudes to sexual matters, sexual behaviour and bodily functions; underneath the charming exterior there are often suspicions or hints of sex discrimination and sexual harassment, perhaps also sexual dysfunction, sexual inadequacy, sexual perversion, sexual violence or sexual abuse
in a relationship, is incapable of initiating or sustaining intimacy
holds deep prejudices (eg against the opposite gender, people of a different sexual orientation, other cultures and religious beliefs, foreigners, etc - prejudiced people are unvaryingly unimaginative) but goes to great lengths to keep this prejudicial aspect of their personality secret
is self-opinionated and displays arrogance, audacity, a superior sense of entitlement and sense of invulnerability and untouchability
has a deep-seated contempt of clients in contrast to his or her professed compassion
is a control freak and has a compulsive need to control everyone and everything you say, do, think and believe; for example, will launch an immediate personal attack attempting to restrict what you are permitted to say if you start talking knowledgeably about psychopathic personality or antisocial personality disorder (http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/apd.htm) in their presence - but aggressively maintains the right to talk (usually unknowledgeably) about anything they choose; serial bullies despise anyone who enables others to see through their deception and their mask of sanity
displays a compulsive need to criticise whilst simultaneously refusing to value, praise and acknowledge others, their achievements, or their existence
shows a lack of joined-up thinking with conversation that doesn't flow and arguments that don't hold water
flits from topic to topic so that you come away feeling you've never had a proper conversation
refuses to be specific and never gives a straight answer
is evasive and has a Houdini-like ability to escape accountability
undermines and destroys anyone who the bully perceives to be an adversary, a potential threat, or who can see through the bully's mask
is adept at creating conflict between those who would otherwise collate incriminating information about them
is quick to discredit and neutralise anyone who can talk knowledgeably about antisocial or sociopathic behaviors
may pursue a vindictive vendetta against anyone who dares to held them accountable, perhaps using others' resources and contemptuous of the damage caused to other people and organisations in pursuance of the vendetta
is also quick to belittle, undermine, denigrate and discredit anyone who calls, attempts to call, or might call the bully to account
gains gratification from denying people what they are entitled to
is highly manipulative, especially of people's perceptions and emotions (eg guilt)
poisons peoples' minds by manipulating their perceptions
when called upon to share or address the needs and concerns of others, responds with impatience, irritability and aggression
is arrogant, haughty, high-handed, and a know-all
often has an overwhelming, unhealthy and narcissistic (http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/npd.htm) attention-seeking need to portray themselves as a wonderful, kind, caring and compassionate person, in contrast to their behaviour and treatment of others; the bully sees nothing wrong with their behavior and chooses to remain oblivious to the discrepancy between how they like to be seen and how they are seen by others
is spiritually dead although may loudly profess some religious belief or affiliation
is mean-spirited, officious, and often unbelievably petty
is mean, stingy, and financially untrustworthy
is greedy, selfish, a parasite and an emotional vampire
is always a taker and never a giver
is convinced of their superiority and has an overbearing belief in their qualities of leadership but cannot distinguish between leadership (maturity, decisiveness, assertiveness, co-operation, trust, integrity) and bullying (immaturity, impulsiveness, aggression, manipulation, distrust, deceitfulness)
often fraudulently claims qualifications, experience, titles, entitlements or affiliations which are ambiguous, misleading, or bogus
often misses the semantic meaning of language, misinterprets what is said, sometimes wrongly thinking that comments of a satirical, ironic or general negative nature apply to him or herself
knows the words but not the song
is constantly imposing on others a false reality made up of distortion and fabrication
sometimes displays a seemingly limitless demonic energy especially when engaged in attention-seeking activities or evasion of accountability and is often a committeeaholic or apparent workaholic

[gobbledock]

And remember this:
1. Mobile phones, particularly new technology such as Ipad/Iphones record everything. Emails, websites, text messages, time, dates, words, locations, even when you have put the phone on charge.
They can almost decipher when you last farted.
2. Almost the same goes for your work emails with basic internal technolgy, key logger programs and so on.
3. Wireless. Most wireless networks connect to your workplace server, hence point number 1 above also applies to wireless. Think of that next time you try to outwit HR or management by bringing your own laptop to work so you can watch porn on the night shift or send emails from your own Yahoo account to your mates telling them that your boss takes it on the chin! Yes, they can ping you through wireless also.

Now for a great read try this book - 'The Sociopath Next Door' by Martha Stout. She even has a PHD so CASA staff should enjoy that fact alone!
A very interesting, sometimes funny, yet mostly accurate description of airline management, regulatory bodies, politicians and the like.

[Slippery_Pete]

Anyone you know?


What if a "manager" shut down an entire airline, just to hold the staff and more importantly the government to ransom over industrial action policy?

Would that qualify?

Bearing that in mind, does that person meet a selection of the aforementioned criteria I've cherry picked below?





is a convincing, practised liar and when called to account, will make up anything spontaneously to fit their needs at that moment
is glib, shallow and superficial with plenty of fine words and lots of form - but there's no substance
relies on mimicry, repetition and regurgitation
is self-opinionated and displays arrogance, audacity, a superior sense of entitlement and sense of invulnerability and untouchability
is a control freak and has a compulsive need to control
displays a compulsive need to criticise whilst simultaneously refusing to value, praise and acknowledge others, their achievements, or their existence
shows a lack of joined-up thinking with conversation that doesn't flow and arguments that don't hold water
flits from topic to topic so that you come away feeling you've never had a proper conversation
refuses to be specific and never gives a straight answer
undermines and destroys anyone who the bully perceives to be an adversary, a potential threat, or who can see through the bully's mask
may pursue a vindictive vendetta against anyone who dares to held them accountable, perhaps using others' resources and contemptuous of the damage caused to other people and organisations in pursuance of the vendetta
gains gratification from denying people what they are entitled to
is arrogant, haughty, high-handed, and a know-all
often has an overwhelming, unhealthy and narcissistic (http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/npd.htm) attention-seeking need to portray themselves as a wonderful, kind, caring and compassionate person, in contrast to their behaviour and treatment of others; the bully sees nothing wrong with their behavior and chooses to remain oblivious to the discrepancy between how they like to be seen and how they are seen by others
is convinced of their superiority and has an overbearing belief in their qualities of leadership but cannot distinguish between leadership (maturity, decisiveness, assertiveness, co-operation, trust, integrity) and bullying (immaturity, impulsiveness, aggression, manipulation, distrust, deceitfulness)
is constantly imposing on others a false reality made up of distortion and fabrication


and my favourite...


is mean, stingy, and financially untrustworthy

[Cactusjack]

Pete, I think you have pinched all those criteria from either a current or past airline CEO's CV or job PD??

[Jock p]

All

Take heed of what Gobbledock says. He is spot on.

I recently saw the company IT mob going through an employees company phone. They are so frigging paranoid about SFA I just had to laugh. :E

and never never trust anyone from HR. In all the companies I've worked for I've always seen HR shoelaces hanging out of the bosses xxxxside. Anything said in confidence will always go to the top.

[Sarcs]

Surprising thing is when you first look at the description list you kind of think it is too exhaustive (too over the top), but I can tell you it is absolutely spot on when put to my bully experience/individual!

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

See link below. Comcare owns the OHS legislation so the info is good advice.

http://www.comcare.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/75538/bullying_10_min_updated.pdf

For anyone being 'performance managed' for alleged underperformance note if the org does not follow procedures it is not legitimate mgmt action and therefore further evidence of bullying.

[mattyj]

Bet the individual described above would nail an airline behavioral/aptitude test 10/10 times

[Trojan1981]

There was an issue at a large airport on the eastern seaboard a few years ago. The airport had recently been privatized and large scale redundancies offered in operations, works and maintenance. The teams that remained in operations and works were under the management of a particularly nasty, petty and vindictive bully. I worked there for a few months when I first left the ADF but quickly decided it wasn't for me and went back to flying.

The manager displayed more than a few of the character traits listed on the previous page. I found him very dismissive of other peoples ideas or concerns, but explosive when anyone questioned his ideas. He also seemed to think that the rules didn't apply to him. One particular supervisor, a particularly smart young woman, questioned him on a few issues and advised him that he must comply with the rules. He exploded. He threw things at her, his face turned red and he was spitting as he shouted. She, being a very smart woman, called the police! He was not arrested, but the incident was now on the public record. As more incidents occurred they were reported to HR, and with the police record as proof of past behavior they were forced to take notice or face both a criminal prosecution of their manager and a civil class action from their staff.

Eventually (probably after about two years) the supervisors and staff advised HR that they no longer had confidence in the manager, and refused to take direction from him. This collective action worked and the manager was sacked. Unfortunately the events took their toll; several people resigned due stress and the young woman was diagnosed with terminal cancer shortly afterwards (which may have been related to stress).

[Pa28200]

'Star' bullies protected for pulling in big bucks, Inquiry into Workplace Bullying told | The Courier-Mail (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/star-bullies-protected-for-pulling-in-big-bucks-inquiry-into-workplace-bullying-told/story-e6freon6-1226429223691)

Who really cares ? :ugh:

[Sarcs]

"If you have a star in the industry that is bringing in tens of millions of dollars but runs his floor by fear businesses will say 'we will pay for the pleasure' of this person," Mr Harmer said.


Unfortunately that is what you are up against, narcissistic behaviour is widely accepted in most businesses and NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) is highly prevalent in the ranks of MD/CEOs, as Slippery_Pete alludes to, the rat's leprechaun is a classic example!


He said the legal system was often so expensive for a person to pursue a bullying claim that people don't want to make a stand.
There was also no legislation that precisely covered the issue although the Chamber of Commerce and Industry Queensland claimed there was at least a dozen pieces of legislation, codes or regulations under which a person could take action and there was no need for any more.


Doesn't sound like the inquiry is going to achieve much!! :ugh:

[Anthill]

Another aspect to work place bullying is where a 'group' of employees bully another staff member. In this situation, the pack mentality provides the justification for bullying in a manner similar to that in the book "Lord of the Flies"; no rumour or act too cruel.

My observation is that this tends to happen in smaller organisations. The 'victim' tends to be someone who is different from other staff members. The difference could be gender, ethnic, body-type (Hey, let's pick on the fat girl..!), educational level or generational( eg: a Baby-boomer in a group of Gen Ys). A charismatic person starts the bullying and it become acceptable by others to harrass that person. This is an unpleasant manifestation of 'group-think' as has been observed and researched by sociologists. To some extent, it becomes almost neccessary to bully that person, so as to fit in with the rest of the crowd.

At one company where I worked, a young woman who was a Goth was bullied out of the company by a group which comprised mostly Ladettes and Farmgirls. Socially, these people pretty much ran the whole show. Here, the gothic girl was ostracised both during and after work hours. She was largly ignored by others during work (CRM implications are obvious) except to be given menial extra tasks by other work "mates". She was rarely invited to drinks or dinner after hours.

On her last day with the company, she walked out the door without any acknowledgement to other staff (she had privately said good-byes to myself and another person who had given her support). One of the Laddettes noted: "..and she didn't even say goodbye to us.." :suspect:

Well, really, who would?:rolleyes:

[flyingkea]

Wow this was a very interesting thread to find for me. I worked as a club instructor with the CFI and "upper committee" who fit most of the bully descriptions in the thread. What I am interested in is what people think about employees who have taken a personal grievance against their former employer.
My basic situation was that I was working as a "casual" instructor instructor at this particular organization, where what I mean by casual is that I got paid for the little flying I got (usually my students were stolen because "they needed to learn to fly with other instructors" - direct quote btw) and then whatever ground work I did was for free. I'm not actually complaining about that toooo much because I knew the industry was bad, and it was actually a flying job for a raw C-cat.
I did really enjoy it, even though I was working a 70 hour week over 2 jobs to pay my rent, :ugh:however the CFI was a real bully to me. Was constantly told that if I didn't do more free labour I would be fired, physically intimidated my by standing over my screaming at me, that he would get rid of me, etc. If another instructor and I didn't do something right, or even shared a job he would call us into the office, tell us to do something productive and then after the other instructor left he would give me another grilling. Then he would spend the rest of the day on trademe. He would awkwardly rearrange flight schedules to ensure I missed out on club activities etc.
Despite all this, I didn't want to leave, I really love instructing, and had a really good rapport with the students I had managed to keep :) So eventually the CFI and the upper committee without consultation to the remaining committee decided to let "me go". They didn't about the redundancy meeting until after it was meant to take place. there was no support, and the day they told me turned out to be my last day working there. :mad: They also decided to not call it redundancy, that way they didn't need to give me a full payout in accordance with my contract, and they hired someone else for cheaper less than 3 weeks later to do the same job. Charming huh? :{:{

Anyway getting to the point of this ramble/vent I took up a personal grievance against them, after which I will be heading to Australia so my question is: how much will this be counted against me? I have a glowing reference from the other job I worked at, however it is *ahem! mumble* at a fast food outlet. As a friend of mine described it, "we all know it happens in the industry, but what they did to you was just nasty"

Thanks to anyone who replies to this :ok:

[aroa]

..Flying Kea. Sounds like as you enjoy instucting you'll find work OK in Oz. All the best with that.

I've seen some Keas in action... getting stuck into parked cars and the camping camping gear on the roof rack. Diligent, persitent and not giving up until the job was done.!

Good moniker.! Good luck.!

Enjoy the GAFA.:ok:

[27/09]

We are only hearing one side of the story here so it's hard to be completely objective. There's two sides to every story.

If things are as you described what do you hope to achieve with the PG, especially since you say you're off to OZ?

Whether or not the PG is justified you run the risk of being labelled a trouble maker. Is it worth the grief even if you are totally in the right?

[flyingkea]

Cheers Aroa! Definitely hoping that everything will go well over there. And yes those keas are very smart and cheeky little critters.

At 27/09, that is unfortunately the issue with anonymous forums like these, you never know how accurate the information posted is. I would be the first to admit I'm not the perfect person, despite my best efforts :)

In talking about being a trouble maker, the circumstances of my dismissal would certainly imply that I am one, even without the PG. Being treated as if I had conducted a serious misconduct would have that sort of effect. Also the irony is, I think thats why I was the "unfavored" one, is that I am not a troublemaker, they thought I would just take my lumps and just quietly vanish, letting them do as they pleased. That's how I reacted to my bosses bullying, going quiet and waiting for it to blow over.
What do I want out of it? To be honest, all I want to do is tell them "you guys can't F**k me like that." := and the reference that they promised me, that they then refused to deliver. And yes I am aware of the saying "you have made your bed, now lie in it"

[mattyj]

Good on you for standing up for yourself ..unfortunately junior pilots who value their self respect don't fare all that well in the industry ..if you're just after the good reference you were promised its hard to argue with that..go in to the cps office and force him to sign it personally when you win! :D

[27/09]

I'm trying to figure out which organisation you're talking about. I know most of the larger aero clubs, and while I don't doubt things you described can happen it doesn't fit with any of the organisations I can think of. I'm not looking for you to say who or what organisation is involved.

When I re read your first post it is obvious to me that English may not be your first language and almost certainly that you are not a New Zealander with the way you word some things and your use of a "z" instead of an "s". I do wonder that there may be some "misunderstandings" that have resulted from this.

[j3pipercub]

flyingkea,

I would strongly advise you do NOT divulge anymore of your personal situation and details on this site. You don't know who you are talking to and who they may be good friends with. Goodluck with your PG, I do not think that it will affect your employment in Aus.

j3

[flyingkea]

@j3pipercub, don't worry, I know better than to give out those sort of details. Thanks and I hope so too.

@27/09 I am very definitely a New Zealander, have lived here all my life, have spoken English all my life. Heck I was in the English Scholarship classes at school, so I'm not quite sure of 1) what you mean by the s/z and 2) which part of my phraseology bothers you.

@mattyj Thanks, I'm looking forward to it....:}

[27/09]

flyingkea

To answer your questions.

The very first sentence of your original post is worded in an unusual manner Wow this was a very interesting thread to find for me. Normally this would be written "Wow, this was a very interesting thread (for me) to find" and very often the (for me) would be omitted altogether.

I was working as a "casual" instructor instructor at this particular organization In New Zealand we don't use a "z" in organisation.

Perhaps these two things were out of character for you. I'm sorry if I offended you.

If things are as you say then these people deserve to be brought to task. However you need to carefully consider if it's worth your while. Aviation is a very small world, particularly so in New Zealand, and no matter the outcome, you run a very high risk of being labelled a trouble maker. As hard as it may be to do, for the sake of your career you might be better to "suck it up" and move on. What ever way you go good luck.

[flyingkea]

Why should aviation be any different to other forms of employment in this respect?
Q.E.D! They are always harping on at us about how we have to obey aviation law, where does it state they can ignore NZ's employment laws with impunity. As one community laywer put it, "there's nothing too much wrong with our employment laws, its just that too many employers don't have a clue" Also I'm aware that this company (particularly the CFI) has forced other staff members out although this happened before I started there. Also the other instructors there are amazing people and I would hate to see the same thing happen to them.

Regarding my language LOL, I must admit to 1) using the autocorrect that likes to use American spelling for the word in context, and 2) I read far too much, and that does give me the odd turn of phrase here and there depending on what I have been reading lately. :ugh:

BTW, thank you to jimmyconway and anon mouse, for seeing my point of view, and anon mouse *jokingly* any room for a C-cat instructor with 500 hours at your company? Sounds like a great place to work :ok: Glad to see that there are decent places out there. I had been reading the forums and had been fearing that everywhere was as bad as my old work. Also I was abit worried about the opinion that as other people had bad jobs, that I should have to suffer too, just because they had too! In fact that was one line my boss used on me! Take my lumps because I had followed my dreams etc etc. @jimmyconway agreed, everyone knows that everyone knows everyone. Hence why I am moving overseas, where the grass may not be greener, but hopefully it hasn't been planted on landmines.

For anon mouse's knowledge, A PG stands for personal grievance which has to be raised with 90 days of the issue arising. Basically I send a message to my former employers and tell them about the issue I have with them. In this case the reply was go f*ck yourself in polite lawyer speak, so I have arranged for mediation to occur. If that doesn't resolve the issue (knowing these guys it won't) then it goes to the employment court. Also since they only paid me about $5k for 10 months work, any money I get from this will be a MASSIVE bonus.

[27/09]

anon mouse

I agree that the post was articulate, I never said it wasn't, just that some of the phraseology and spelling was not the norm. hence the question regarding English as a first language. Also I presume you were refering to me when you said Also, as advised above, it looks like somebody is fishing for more information from you. Well, you got that wrong and you would know that if you read what I had written.

jimmyconway
Even if english was a second language to Flying Kea (and I doubt that it is) are you suggesting this would be adequate grounds for the intimidation and bullying they have been subject to? Where ever did you get that idea, isn't it amazing how words get twisted.

As I said right at the start there's two sides to every story and along with my impression that flyingkea may be a foreigner I wondered if there was room for misunderstandings. My comments in no way endorse intimidation or bullying.

I still stand by my caution re taking legal action. Flyingkea, everyone that is encouraging you to take action is standing on the sidelines, they have nothing to lose. Very often being right and proving it doesn't get you anywhere.

If however after weighing up all the facts you decide to take action, and it sounds like you have, then I wish you every success. Good on you for having the conviction to follow through. Hopefully you'll get a good outcome and some cash to boot. Also as others have said people following behind you will the thankful for your actions.

Hopefully you'll report back here with the outcome.

[27/09]

Having a sick note stating 'work related stress' I found that 'HR' was the last place on earth to go to... let alone trust.

HR is there solely for the companies benefit not yours. In some cases should be call IR (industrial relations),

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

HR is there solely for the companies benefit not yours. In some cases should be call IR (industrial relations),

Yes, and can very quickly degenerate into a legal dispute. The friendly face of HR being replaced with stern faces of IR and lawyers. The claimant will be accused of under performing and that it was legitimate performance management and not bullying and harassment is a standard method of fighting! If you ever get in this situation get a good lawyer. Do not rely on HR or in some cases even the union they have a multitude of issues and you may not get attention deserved. Document everything and act in a professional non emotional manner and you can win.

[Sarcs]

Interesting article on this subject, see here: Bosses urged to watch for workplace psychopaths - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-01/expert-warns-vigilance-against-workplace-psychopaths/4290094)
Hmm..the problem is most of the bosses are probably psychopaths themselves so the care factor will be zilch!

[halfmanhalfbiscuit]

I'm with Sarcs on this.

'Watch out for' would mean have a robust policy (un written) to

1) support the bully if a complaint is made and attack the target.

2) promote the bully

3) recruit a bully


Of course the published HR policy would be very different.

[Sunfish]

Good advice here.

Don't ever trust, let alone confide in, HR.

Be very careful about what you say to other employees. I once made that mistake, and didn't discover until after I was "let go" that she was sleeping with my boss.

The only approach to take, if you wish to stay and fight it out, is to suppress all personal emotion and focus rigidly on how the alleged behaviour negatively affects the company and bring that subject up every time you are required to address the matter. ie:

"This behaviour consumes time and resources that should be better devoted to......"

Be aware that if you take on a narcissistic supervisor that they will lie through their teeth, fabricate evidence, blackmail other employees into testifying against you and of course try and find dirt on you from your private life, past employment, etc. I have seen all that happen.

It should also be noted that in Melbourne we have just seen a female p1ssing contest between Louise Adler, Chairman of MLC and Rosa Storelli, the school principle, which appears to have ended in a draw. If you take on something like that, then good luck to you.

[Quokka]

Remember, no matter what happens, there is always... The Rio Solution. :ok: