What would you do?

[thatpilot]

I'm 25yo kiwi living in Australia currently earning ~150k/pa in a mining job (love the money, hate the job). I've got 7hrs in my log book (5hrs actual training and 2hrs due to long gap between flights). Flying for a living has always been the dream and I've decided to give it a serious crack now but I'm a bit confused as to the best way to go about getting it done.

Would you:
a) pay as you go and get it done on time off - I work 9/5 roster. Based on my living expenses this would take me about a year to get 200hr CPL with a MECIR through the place I did my previous flying in Adelaide.
b) Save up the coin and do it all in one go on a fulltime course back in NZ. I'll stay in my current job (assuming contract continues) until I've got the coin up, again approx 12mths time to get the $$ up.

I have a girlfriend in tow (looking serious), and I'm determined to get my training done without getting into debt. She wants to move back to NZ in the next couple of years so AirNZ/link will be the midterm goal. Am I better off doing my training in Australia now or should I save the coin up and take advantage of the exchange rate and do my training in NZ.

How tight is the job market it in NZ? I saw recently that apparently instructors are in demand, but i can't find any jobs being advertised so I'm assuming that if that is the case that schools are pulling from their own ranks?

Do pilots in NZ have an 'award' agreement like in Australia or am I looking at going back to minimum wage as an instructor/GA pilot?

Also, what are peoples thoughts on the ANZ Aviation Institute FTO program - worth the extra time in school, or grind out my CPL and ratings and get on with the job and just build the hours and go the more 'traditional' route.

Sorry, lots of questions. I read through the DG&P forum as much as possible and searched re: training in NZ but couldn't find the answers I'm after.

[YPJT]

Mate if I were you I would stick it out in the resources sector. Sure get your PPL, CPL, MECIR, IR or whatever else you feel like. At the end of the day, you will find it a lot less stressful and more enjoyable doing the flying that you want to do for leisure rather than being the lowest paid person an an aircraft full of feral bogan miners.

[Aimpoint]

If you're serious about aviation lose the girlfriend. Harsh, but I'm sure there are plenty that would agree.

[kalavo]

Honestly, you've already broken rule one in aviation. Get the job of your dreams first THEN get the girl of your dreams. If you get the girl first dream job just won't happen, life gets in the way... "I want to move back to NZ"

If this is the girl you're going to marry... just stick with a job like you currently have - one that lets you fly for fun on weekends.

If you like we'll even tell you things like "It's not as much fun when it's your job" to make you feel better and suggest things like aerobatics, formation and tailwheel... which few of us get to do as a job.

[thatpilot]

Haha, the guys at work have said the same about losing the missus, but so i can buy a house.

I've got friends from school that have gone about 'getting there' in a variety of different ways - one is second year FO on the B1900, one I has just left a GA job out of the Hawkes Bay to fly for ANZ (I think), one has started flying SO with CX on 747's for pittance and the other is up in PNG. All of them are loving it, unless they are lying, its what they/we all thought it would be, just without as much pay as we expected!

[Howard Hughes]

If I were you, I'd keep at the mining and buy the biggest, baddest kick arse aircraft I could afford!:ok:

[Homesick-Angel]

You have to make a few lifestyle choices first.
You either decide to follow you heart, be poor for a while, and look seriously at being the single man about town. I will say it's fun for a while but eventually gets pretty lonely and you will probably wish at some point that you'd stuck with what is good on the girlfriend side of things.

In your position, id keep making the bucks, and if instruction is something your into, move into that part time while you work towards twin/ Ifr etc.
You will get to a point in a few years where you will have the best of both worlds and be able to make a choice. This path is the long road time wise, but means you get to keep your life..

Depending on your free time I think a year whilst working full time is a stretch but if your a FIFO could be possible.

Go have a look at the award for pilots. If your still keen, you may have the required ability to ignore reality and get it done.

[Capt Claret]

I started at 26 years of age, with wife and 2 kids. 29 years later I have no doubt that had I gone the part time route, I'd have not got through, or it would have cost a lot more in time & money, than the 9 month full time CPL course I undertook.

[baron_beeza]

There will be a wide range of answers so you will have to treat them as suggestions.
I would be putting to you that you should stick in the money job for now. Do some recreational flying on the days off if you like.

Flying in NZ would be the go. I would even consider buying an aircraft, Tomahawk or Cherokee 140 or similar could be considered.

I would even consider popping a few of the exams while you are at it. Committing to a CPL course would only be worth it if you went on to a flying job.

Life may be just as pleasurable with a PPL and flying your own aircraft, - when you feel like flying....

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

If you saved some of that money then you could make it work (but don't expect to have much of the savings left when you start making a reasonable wage again).

For you the cost will be:


the actual outlay of money for CPL and MECIR +
the lost 100% income over say 1 year of training
the loss of the difference between your pay of $150K and about $35k - $45k over about 5 years (give or take)

Off hand you're looking at


$70k+
$150k+
[[$150-$40] x 5]

Which gives a very scary figure of about $770k cost to you over a 6 year period. Of course the figure is scary because you are raking in a FIFO wage and you'll save a heap on tax (even after accounting for your zone X if you get it now... not that anyone should choose a career based on tax brackets). BTW if you were on say $100k that 'scary' figure would be $470k loss over 6 years.


It can be a very rewarding career though.


Food for thought.


FRQ CB


PS It is possible to do this with a VERY understanding partner.

[Wally Mk2]

I think quite a few would be envious of yr current situation to some degree but the G/F thingy??.....as mentioned here lose the G/F their only good for two things,one of which I can't recall right now:E Also go out into a busy street & the first girl you bump into going round a blind corner('cause luv is blind) buy here a house & get it out of yr system early :ok:
As for the flying, well only you know what's best for you, no one can be you but if you need to be told what to do then you don't belong in a plane as a driver.

Wmk2

[neville_nobody]

Haha, the guys at work have said the same about losing the missus, but so i can buy a house.

She's the wrong type of girl or you have a spending problem if you can't afford a house on that sort of money:hmm:

Remember you won't ever earn that sort of coin in aviation until you become a capt on a Jet. Realistically that sort of money is 10+ years away or if you chose to fly for a NZ airline you will probably never see that sort of pay cheque ever again.

If you were going to do this damn silly thing, then save up and do it in one go.

And remember you don't get into flying because you want to be rich.

[Horatio Leafblower]

...if you need to be told what to do then you don't belong in a plane as a driver.

Ain't that the truth.

1/. to succeed in Aviation you must have a burning desire to succeed and a strong faith in yourself. This will see you through several years of crap.

2/. If you have 1/., then it's simply a question of how and when you juggle your finances to achieve it.

3/. If you have 1/. and commit to 2/., and the uber-chick doesn't like it, you were doomed to either split up - or to stay together, but wondering if you could have made it.

Life is short. If you're 25, your life is already 30% over.

ps: I left mining to get back into flying. Flying is better.

[Towering Q]

Definitely option (a).

When you've finished you could look at joining the FIFO industry and drive your former colleagues to work.:ok:

[The Bunglerat]

I know what I would do (if I were in my mid-20's all over again): On the kind of coin you're earning, invest in real estate like a man possessed!

I know a number of people who are pulling close to seven figure incomes per year, all from using smart property investment strategies. Some them have been able to retire by their mid 30's, although they tend to get bored & start looking for more ways to make money again.

Not saying that flying hasn't been good to me over the years, but I paid too high a price to achieve the dream, & now I'm 40-something with all my skills, experience & proverbial eggs in one basket. As one gets older, one starts to feel more vulnerable & exposed to the concept of having a skill that is totally useless to anyone outside of a cockpit.

I sure wish I was earning the kind of serious money that you're on when I was your age - but then I probably would have lacked the maturity to be smarter with it. ;)

[NotProvided]

Its not all certainly negative,

I left the mining industry after 6 years to instruct and i enjoy it a lot. I have no idea where id be right now if i had taken a cadetship - so i cant comment on that.

The cash reality is that the wage in GA is unsustainable until you become chief this or that. To supplement my income I still work a second casual job. And that's in the mining industry. Its difficult to juggle the two but not impossible.

It is also still possible to get the girl, nobody had mentioned that you may have a supportive one on a good income, they can be a pretty good backup. I have never had to rely on mine for cash, but to buy a house in Australia without one...

Definitely have a plan to leave the mining industry, YPJT's uncouth bogans are usually the ones who stayed on too long, it doesnt have to be flying to be involved in this industry, I hear a LAME is well paid and sought after. The tens of thousands spent adding hours and a CPL to a PPL instead saved, could see you living large on an apprentice income for a few years.

Regards

[hiwaytohell]

Hey forget half the advice above... only you can decide about your girl etc. But with flying what is more important is to choose a quality school and instructor.

Fly as often as you can and as soon as you can!!! Putting it off until you save the money to do full time only puts you further down the track... and in the end miss opportunities in the future when they come along.

Read extensively, hang around airports/flyers etc on your days off, ask lots of questions and you will be surprised at the opportunities!

Use your cashflow NOW to get the career you want because in the future you may not have the opportunity... kids, mortgages or other priorities will rob the opportunity....

Enjoy the ride... and don't give up, aviation is brutal on those who don't put in 100%!

[gileraguy]

the next eight years will be the best of your life.

After 33 it's all downhill...

Carpe Diem..

[framer]

I would bank as much as I possibly could for the next three years then reassess.

[PaulDamian]

Your 25 and have the benefit of youth (compared to most others).

I'm 43 and I'm doing reasonly well - career in law, house, wife, 2 kids, etc.. the whole domestic nightmare (and enjoying most of it).

I regret every day that I didn't continue with my flying in one form or another. I'm still considering throwing it all in to get a gig as a charter or regional or maybe aero med.

We are here for a very little period of time. Do want you want to do.
If you have a burning desire to be a pilot - do it.
Don't worry about the money, poverty, women, property, children, education etc.. - that will all fall into place. Everything is a compromise.


My advice:
(i) Keep working in the mining gig to finance your flying to frozen ATPL;
(ii) Keep out of debt;
(iii) Search for opportunities in aviation and take whatever you can;
(iv) Don't commit to a relationship unless she (or he as the case may be) is 100% supportive financially and willing to move;
(v) Do it becasue that is what you want to do. if you disciver that being a pilot is not what its all cracked up to be, find another vocation (preferably not the law) or move back into mining.
(vi) Don't be dissuaded by the incidence of difficult or ar5ehole people in the industry. I can assure you that the incidence of ar5ehole and difficult people is consistent accross almost all industries and employment, unless you want to become a buddhist monk.

If you don't have any other competing commitments, passions or desires, then you have nothing to lose except a bit of time and money.

[PaulDamian]

No, I can't afford my own plane.

However, hiring a plane for a legitimate business purpose can be a tax deduction. :E

[brad_nz90]

I did my CPL and MEIR all in NZ full time course and have now moved over to OZ. I reckon you best bet would be to stay over here in OZ work in the mines to fund your training. Then get a job over here so much more flying work here

[deadcut]

Mate,

If you hate the job that you are in now, then you have already answered your own question.
If flying is what will make you happy then do it!

"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return."- Leonardo da Vinci.

[LookinDown]

ThatPilot,
There are some wise words in the above postings, and some less so.
I have taken the liberty of extracting some quotes and of adding my two pence worth…

On timing…
Mate if I were you I would stick it out in the resources sector. Sure get your PPL, CPL, MECIR, IR or whatever else you feel like. At the end of the day, you will find it a lot less stressful and more enjoyable doing the flying that you want to do for leisure.

In your position, id keep making the bucks, and if instruction is something your into, move into that part time while you work towards twin/ Ifr etc.
You will get to a point in a few years where you will have the best of both worlds and be able to make a choice.

I would be putting to you that you should stick in the money job for now. Do some recreational flying on the days off if you like.
Gain flying and industry insight in your spare time for at least a couple of years on your current income and then consider a full time CPL course while knocking over basic subjects when convenient.

On Women…
If this is the girl you're going to marry... just stick with a job like you currently have - one that lets you fly for fun on weekends.

I will say it's fun for a while but eventually gets pretty lonely and you will probably wish at some point that you'd stuck with what is good on the girlfriend side of things.
An aeroplane can be an exciting and stimulating companion. However, they are bloody cold and heartless to cuddle up to on a Winters’ night or when you need TLC after a long day.

On Training….
Flying in NZ would be the go. I would even consider buying an aircraft, Tomahawk or Cherokee 140 or similar could be considered.
I would even consider popping a few of the exams while you are at it.

Read extensively, hang around airports/flyers etc on your days off, ask lots of questions and you will be surprised at the opportunities!
Cheaper to train in NZ and if committing to training to at least CPL buying your own aircraft will be financially favourable if you can access a quality instructor. Aim for something with a little more horsepower than a 140 and with a good panel which you may then be able to put online with your flying school (tax deduction).

On Money….
Remember you won't ever earn that sort of coin in aviation until you become a capt on a Jet. Realistically that sort of money is 10+ years away or if you chose to fly for a NZ airline you will probably never see that sort of pay cheque ever again
The cash reality is that the wage in GA is unsustainable until you become chief this or that.

I would bank as much as I possibly could for the next three years then reassess.
(i) Keep working in the mining gig to finance your flying to frozen ATPL;
(ii) (ii) Keep out of debt;
What they said (FYI ‘frozen ATPL isn’t Antarctic flying!’)

Hope this helps.
LD

[Andy_RR]

The world is going to be a very different place in five years time when the bottom has fallen out of the resources sector and the Aussie dollar is barely good enough for toilet paper. I'd be milking your current opportunties as much as possible and diversifying the proceeds in various asset classes except Aussie real-estate.

Being a shrewd investor and saver now will give you more enjoyable flying hours in the future than turning yourself into a slave to a bank manager and some marginally profitable flying organisation...

[HarleyD]

For a start: Don't take any notice of anything that has been posted on this site by the self important knowalls that populate it.

The GF........She seems to have your life together mapped out according to your first post (being a kiwi girl, this would be normal), so just ask her about how she sees your career in aviation, cos that's how its gonna be if you stay manacled to a scheming bossy cow like that.

Problem solved

HD

[27/09]

Paul DamianWe are here for a very little period of time. Do want you want to do.
If you have a burning desire to be a pilot - do it.
Don't worry about the money, poverty, women, property, children, education etc.. - that will all fall into place. Everything is a compromise.


My advice:
(i) Keep working in the mining gig to finance your flying to frozen ATPL;
(ii) Keep out of debt;
(iii) Search for opportunities in aviation and take whatever you can;
(iv) Don't commit to a relationship unless she (or he as the case may be) is 100% supportive financially and willing to move;
(v) Do it becasue that is what you want to do. if you disciver that being a pilot is not what its all cracked up to be, find another vocation (preferably not the law) or move back into mining.
(vi) Don't be dissuaded by the incidence of difficult or ar5ehole people in the industry. I can assure you that the incidence of ar5ehole and difficult people is consistent accross almost all industries and employment, unless you want to become a buddhist monk.

If you don't have any other competing commitments, passions or desires, then you have nothing to lose except a bit of time and money.

This pretty well sums things up as I see it.

Once you have the cash come back to New Zealand and do your CPL, MEIR and if desired an Instructor rating. You will find the training as good if not better than in OZ and cheaper. Since it appears you want to move back here to live you will also be able to make contacts for future work.

In my opinion the ANZ programme is way over rated. 99% of the graduates will end up back in GA before they get a shot through the Recruit To Group process. The Airline prep course which is one of the main points of difference with the ANZ programme will be offered by other providers any way.

Find a school/aero club near to where you want to live and join their full time course.

P.S. There ain't no such thing as a frozen ATPL in NZ.

[sprocket check]

Better be unhappy about a girl for a short time now than a long time later.

Unless she supports your aviation career it is going to be very very painful, for you and for her.

just my 2c

[Pseudonymn]

PS It is possible to do this with a VERY understanding partner.


Hey, I resemble that remark! :O

thatpilot make sure you let your girlfriend know exactly what you are aiming for and where you might possibly end up living along the way. Explain the lack of job security, the fact that she may end up in an office job outback somewhere, earning more than you do, but she may have to chuck it in so you can move to chase that next step with little notice. Rental accommodation is in high demand in most of the usual GA haunts, so paying a lot of money on a dilapidated shoebox is normal.

If you or she have any doubts about this step, you need to sort them out NOW. Otherwise it will just niggle away and things will all come to a head when you least expect it. The outcomes have proven time and again to be very messy. It's not called Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome for nothing.

If you can make it work together, your relationship will be all the stronger and the envy of others. Good luck!

[scardycap]

Mate I did it with a wife and three kids. Hard yes, worth it, totally.
I worked for 20 years in a job I hated just for the money. Been flying for 9 years and still go to work with a smile on my face. Job satisfaction is where it's at.
I worked in oz for a few years before getting my current gig here in NZ.
My own observations are that it might be better opportunity wise in OZ. get a job and a few hours under your belt and make decisions from there:ok: