Windows 8 going cheap!

[le Pingouin]

MS is offering an upgrade to Win8 Pro for only $40. The really interesting bit is it includes upgrading from WinXP.

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/07/02/upgrade- to-windows-8-pro-for-39-99.aspx (http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/07/02/upgrade-%20to-windows-8-pro-for-39-99.aspx)

They are also offering an upgrade from Win7 to Win8 Pro for $14.99 for newly purchased systems (June 2 2012 - Jan 31 2013).

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-au/windows/upgrade- offer?ocid=O_WOL_EVE_INTL (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-au/windows/upgrade-%20offer?ocid=O_WOL_EVE_INTL)

https://windowsupgradeoffer.com/en/


Now we know how MS is going to entice people to use Win8.

La Pingouin has a laptop running Vista & I'll seriously consider doing it. I won't quite say it's a no-brainer for WinXP users but you're going to have
to do something by April 2014.

Yes, the Metro interface is a fair turn-off for many users, but I'm betting the third party programs (such as ViStart) that work now will continue to do so after release.

[green granite]

Frankly, in it's present form, that's about what it's worth. I almost never bother to use it after the initial couple of weeks, it will need to improve it's interface for PC use before I'll bother with it.

[Milo Minderbinder]

The UK Microsoft approved wholesalers have been pushing a similar deal for a couple of weeks - except the UK upgrade price is around £15, not $15
Essentially with each Win7 OEM Windows licence will come a certificate allowing an upgrade to Win8 later. The offers out now.
In theory only Microsofts OEM system builder partners can take advantage, and based on previous similar deals they'll want to see some kind of proof of purchase by the end customer of a complete PC from the System Builder- NOT proof of the purchase of a Windows CD / licence.

[le Pingouin]

gg, that's what something like ViStart is for - gives you back the Start button and saves your sanity by largely avoiding Metro on a desktop system.

WinXP dies April 2014 and needs replacing with something.

Milo, if I was running Win7 I doubt I'd bother.

[Spitoon]

WinXP dies April 2014 and needs replacing with something.Perhaps true for some businesses but surely it will continue to be adequate for many users for some time beyond? Or are you saying that that XP simply won't work from this date?

[le Pingouin]

It'll keep working but will be unsupported, so no more security patches. Continuing to use any unsupported operating system on-line is not smart as once a new vulnerability is discovered you're forever vulnerable. Avoiding the seedier side of the Web won't help either - reputable websites source ads from third parties and hacking ad servers is a favoured way of delivering exploits.

Not to mention third party software support slowly ceasing - your anit-virus will work for a while but after a year or two will quite likely no longer receive updates.

[PhineasC]

Windows XP isn't going anywhere. I guess that it has a market share of more than 70% in the large corporate market and this isn't going to change in the next couple of years.

If you pay enough money you can continue to install new versions of XP. If more than 50% of PCs are running on XP then I can't see how Microsoft can discontinue support.

The real problem is that none of the subsequent Windows version offer anything more than XP

[Ancient Observer]

By 2014 the bug and other infection writers will have made domestic pcs a thing of the past.
You heard it here first.

[lomapaseo]

Link doesn't work for me

404 error

[le Pingouin]

Not sure what happened there:

Upgrade to Windows 8 Pro for $39.99 (http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/07/02/upgrade-to-windows-8-pro-for-39-99.aspx)

Microsoft Windows (http://www.windows.com/) - click on Windows 8 upgrade offer

[le Pingouin]

Phineas, why would MS continue support? There's no money in keeping WinXP alive, only costs, and a whole pile to be made selling licences for new Win7 capable software.

The corporates will suck it up because they can't afford to risk being caught out running an unsupported OS. What's the lead in time for a corporate migration? 18 months? Two years?

Not to mention third party software vendors cutting off support on XP. Risking running an unsupported OS and critical business software doesn't sound terribly smart to me.

And that just leaves the home user. Definitely no money to be made there continuing support.

[Milo Minderbinder]

XP will die
Essentially the codebase is old, it includes stuff from Win9X, OS/2 / NT3.5, and - allegedlly - Xenix!!!! A lot of its not documented and can't be patched to plug security holes, or properly upgraded to 64-bit
Its unsustainable.
MS need to make the same jump that Apple did with OSX. Each new OS since Win 2000 was an attempt at this, but every time the attempt was aborted mid-jump with a compromise as the end result
This time its make-or-break time. However just bear something in mind: the focus of this new OS is going to be toward a could model, with - if M$ can pull it off - your data hosted in "pay by the gigabyte" cloud storage, your applications hosted on the web in "pay rent for the use" cloud application servers, while you access it all not through a PC with local storage, but instead through something akin to a souped up tablet or kindle

[lomapaseo]

How did Win 95 die?

Was it a painful deth or in its sleep?

[Milo Minderbinder]

It died very very quickly
I started on desktop support around 1999 - four years after release, and the breakdown of support calls was roughly Win98 92% Win95 7.5% DOS/Windows 3 <0.5%
Machines had very short lives in those days, both from obselesece and because they weren't reliable!

[PhineasC]

Everything you say about XP is true but at least it is better than Vista. Walk into your local government office, bank and airline and the probability is that they’ll be using XP. The are less than 2 years left for XP and I can’t see them all ugrading by then, if you ask Microsoft nicely they will still sell you XP licenses. I don’t think the metro interface is enough for large corporations to rewite their line of business software.

[Milo Minderbinder]

"Walk into your local government office, bank and airline and the probability is that they’ll be using XP."

Thats for other reasons
Last year I was part of a major rollout of new laptops to the Dept of Work & Pensions. I was in a team building the software loads on thousands of new machines,
We had to downgrade these machines from 64-bit Win7 to 32-bit XP Pro. Why? Quite simply because the DWP runs a number of small-user legacy databases which will not work in Win7, even under compatibility mode. One at least is 16-bit DOS mode and the DWP will not pay to upgrade these. This has created a situation in that the needs of a small minority of users has prevented the whole estate from upgrading by a few bits of software used by less than 5% of the staff.
I was told that a knock-on effect was that the MOD could not get a much needed upgrade to one program (stock control??) because the DWP were the lead customer and refused the expense.
This situation has an even bigger problem in that these legacy software systems also required us to install legacy versions of other programs - some had to have Office 2003, and ancient version of Adobe Acrobat - with all the security risks that brings
The users, and the IT team wanted the upgrade. Cost cutting management who declined to understand the risks refused it

[Saab Dastard]

I agree about the continued use of way out of date software - I've even seen a recent project to upgrade from NT4 to Server 2008! And that was was in the private sector.

Lots of installations of W2K still out there, both on server and desktop!

SD

[le Pingouin]

Phineas, MS selling you XP is money for jam for them - pure profit and they'll bite you for more for Win7. There's no particular urgency to run Win7 now and you can't know what planning is going on in the back room.

We changed from WinNT to WinXP desktops over a few weeks. Have a look at those banks, government offices and airlines again in September 2013.

Unless MS releases a Win8 Corporate that is radically different to the review release Win7 will be the new WinXP.

[seacue]

I have a nagging suspicion that Windows 9 is what Windows 8 should have been. In other words, Win 8 will have a short life and things will have been sorted out when Win 9 is released.

(Something like Vista and Win 7.)

MS desperately needs something to put on tablets or risk entirely losing that important market, thus Win8 is rushed out.

[parabellum]

No one talks about Windows Millenium any more!:)

[mccdatabase]

I must be the least savvy windows buyer ever, I went from Millenuim to Vista and was all ready to "upgrade" to Win 8 :ugh:

[M.Mouse]

Not least savvy just unsuspecting through lack of knowledge I would suspect.

You have been badly served by having two of M$'s less good operating systems!

In my opinion Millenium was awful and Vista was only slightly better! It is interesting to observe how M$ can build fundamentally good operating systems like W98 and XP and equally fundamentally awful operating systems like Millenium and Vista!

I went from XP which I liked to W7. I downloaded the W7 Release Candidate made my PC at the time dual boot in case W7 was a dog but after a day or two never used XP again and pre-ordered a copy of W7 when the initial version was offered for general sale.

[washingtondave]

Interesting issue about being forced to drop XP. What about the number of applications home users may have which will not work, due to lack of suitable drivers, on later OSes. I purchased a device for scanning slides to my PC, which at the time was (and still is a desktop running XP). I later bought a more powerful laptop running Windows 7, and looked forward to using the scanner on the newer and faster machine. But no, I couldn't because there was no driver available for the scanner in Windows 7. Result, I either have to stick with using the older desktop or junk the scanner and buy a newer one.

[seacue]

As far as I know, no one is forced to drop XP. MS says that they will cease sending out patches within less than two years, but that doesn't mean that XP will roll over dead.

Since some important (to me) programs won't run under Win7, I will keep at least a couple of the machines I support running XP. That will be true at least until the effort to move to newer software is successful.

If one desires to be conservative, one should disconnect XP machines from Internet access after MS abandons them.

seacue

[green granite]

I purchased a device for scanning slides to my PC, which at the time was (and still is a desktop running XP). I later bought a more powerful laptop running Windows 7, and looked forward to using the scanner on the newer and faster machine. But no, I couldn't because there was no driver available for the scanner in Windows 7. Result, I either have to stick with using the older desktop or junk the scanner and buy a newer one.

Errrrr no, I have the same problem with a film scanner, I just run it in a virtual m/c running XP (free from Microsoft) within windows 7, problem solved. You do need windows 7 pro though.

[washingtondave]

Thanks for the tip Green Granite. I don't have Windows 7 Pro though. Would it work with VMware do you know?

[Milo Minderbinder]

Interesting to see the usual stories about windows millenium being trotted out.
The only thing really wrong with it was the lack of a proper DOS shell. In many others ways it was far superior to what went before:
USB2 that worked, wireless networking that worked, system restore, the ability to restore missing or damaged files near-automatically
Add to that the enforced absence of windows installation CDs meaning that customers had to use recovery images instead.
In short, all these changes more than halved the number of support calls to our company. In reality Me was a lot more reliable than any of the Win95/98 variants that preceded it. I'm convinced that most of the criticism was simply because it was still a 9X OS - most people had expected a consumer version of NT instead, something that didn't happen until XP. As a result, disappointment - especially as Win2000 was available at the same time. Customers compared it to the NT stability of Win2K, instead of the instability of 95/98, forgetting that playing games in Win2K could be very hit and miss

[green granite]

I don't have Windows 7 Pro though. Would it work with VMware do you know?

It might but unless you've got lots of ram I suspect you would be better off quarantining the XP M/C from the internet remove all the software other than the scanner stuff and your image manipulation program and you will probably find it faster than the laptop anyway.

[mixture]

Thanks for the tip Green Granite. I don't have Windows 7 Pro though. Would it work with VMware do you know?

VMware KB: Supported Guest Operating Systems in VMware Fusion (http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=1026468)

[washingtondave]

Just returning to an old post.

I am aware that VMware supports XP as a guest operating system (hello again mixture), but will I need a valid license key for XP. I have XP on my home built desktop machine, and had it on my old Dell Inspiron 8100 laptop, but they were both OEM licenses.

If I have to purchase a new license key (is that still possible for XP), then I may as well just junk the scanner.

[Milo Minderbinder]

If you are going to run any version of Windows in a VM, you need a valid licence key.

Just buy a new scanner

[washingtondave]

Thanks Milo.

Therein lies the hidden costs of upgrades. Never as cheap as it seems.

[le Pingouin]

Or if you can afford the space pull the network cable on an XP system and leave it sitting in the corner to use as needed for scanning and other legacy software tasks.

[mixture]

The users, and the IT team wanted the upgrade. Cost cutting management who declined to understand the risks refused it

Yeah... and if the so called "cost cutting" management stopped letting themselves be screwed by the same old set of suppliers, perhaps they would start being presented by quotes that were more affordable.

Its always the same story with UK government IT... they pay way over the odds for a system, the development and deployment of which overruns in both time and budget and is sadly lacking in the features they actually need.

Because they paid over the odds for it in the fist place, it takes many years to adequately amortise the expenses.

[Pelikal]

How strange, was having similar battles with my flat bed scanner, a Microtek 4900. A very capable scanner but no drivers for the HP (Win 7 Home Premium). I use my old Tosh (XP Pro) to control the scanner which is networked to the W7 machine. I scan directly to a drive on the HP and edit from there.

A bit clumsy but a workaround for now.

[Milo Minderbinder]

'twas fun and games when XP was released and the several of the scanner suppliers either didn't release drivers, or were slow in delivering them
Mustek and Scansoft were both guilty

I had to create a series of batch files which changed the reported version of Windows in the registry to Windows 2000, installed the drivers and then changed it back to Windows XP
So....a batch file which edited
\HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\Current Version\Product Name to "Windows 2000 Professional", then ran the setup, and then reverted the registry change. I needed two versions of the file for each scanner....one for XP Home and one for XP Pro.
There was nothing wrong with the actual drivers....except they wouldn't run if the reported version was XP.
I haven't tried it in years, but I wonder if the same trick could be played on Win7 using XP drivers?

[A A Gruntpuddock]

Re the comments about scanner drivers,I had the same problem when I got XP, then I found VueScan.

VueScan Scanner Software for Windows 8, Mac OS X 10.8 (Mountain Lion), Linux, iPhone, iPad, iPod, Android (http://www.hamrick.com/)

Not cheap, but better than the original drivers and I'm still using it.

[Bushfiva]

Vuescan is an outstanding product. It tends to perform way better than the manufacturer's own software.

[Milo Minderbinder]

I just did a random check of half a dozen scanners supposedly suppyorted by Viewscan, and all six required drivers to be downloaded from the scanner manufacturer. It looks like Viewscan is replacement software onl - in many (most ???) cases it does not overcome the lack of drivers. So it may not help
Best to check for details of the specific scanner at VueScan 9 Release Notes (http://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/vuescan.htm#supported)

[Mac the Knife]

Another vote for Vuescan - outstanding product. sensible pricing. sensible licencing.

Cross platfrom and works better than most official scanner software.

Support Vuescan!

Mac

:ok:

"VueScan supports more than 2100 different scanners on Windows, 1800 scanners on Mac OS X and 1600 scanners on Linux. These scanners are organized by vendor name below.

IF your scanner isn't on this list, VueScan may still work with your scanner if you can find a WIA driver (Windows) or an Image Capture driver (Mac OS X) on the scanner manufacturer's web site."

[Pelikal]

Thanks for the pointers to VueScan.

It is certainly correct that one still requires the drivers for the scanner. I downloaded the trial version on both the XP machine and the Win7 one, and yes it will not recognise the scanner under W7. I can't find any drivers for it.

Works fine under XP Pro which I expected. Seems a perfectly reasonable interface but I have no real need for it as the original software does the job.

For a moment I thought I had a solution; I certainly won't be buying another scanner just because Microtek no longer support mine. I'll stick to my XP set-up for now, thanks.

Not entirely sure what a WIA driver is or whether I have one installed.

P.S. My Mac is still not connected to the HP....:ugh:

[Milo Minderbinder]

WIA = Windows Image Acquisition

Its simply a device driver that happens to fit a specific Microsoft protocol that works with newer versions of windows. Older versions of windows used TWAIN drivers (Technology Without An Interesting Name.....allegedly)

[Mac the Knife]

"Q. Do you have Windows Vista or Windows 7 drivers for my discontinued Microtek scanner?

A. Microtek will not be releasing certified driver for the scanners below. Microtek has tested the last windows XP 32 bit driver for the scanners below and it has worked. Many customers who have used this driver, have successfully installed the scanner. The driver can be downloaded at the end of this document.

Note: In order to install the scanner in Windows Vista or Windows 7, you need to disconnect the scanner from the back of the computer's USB cable. Next install the driver and reboot your computer. Once your computer has rebooted connect the scanner to the back of the computer's USB connector. Also you need to check if the scanner is being detected without a yellow exclamation in the device manager. If a yellow exclamation is in device manager, remove the scanner from the device manger and reboot the computer.

<snip>

ScanMaker 4900

<snip>"

No joy?

Mac

:confused:

[Milo Minderbinder]

Pelikal

I've just been on the Microtek site, and the Windows XP driver listed there appears to include an undocumented 64-bit Vista driver

If you download the file and install it under compatibility mode for Vista it may just work
Alternatively unRAR the setup file (its not a real .exe, but a self-expanding RAR) and then manually run the setup files from \disk1 of the expanded file. There are TWO setup files, setup.exe and setupinf.exe
If one doesn't work then try the other - again under compatibility mode.
And if that still won't work, simply use the plug n play driver find routine from within device manager to pick up the .inf file in disk one

ftp://microtek:[email protected]/microtek/pcfiles/drv_sw5_v6_32_ad.exe

[Pelikal]

Thanks both, I may have another play. I get easily confused when things don't work out.

I may just settle for controlling the scanner from the XP machine and scanning direct to the HP on W7. It has a certain elegance actually, viewing/editing the scanned image on one machine and controlling the scanner on the other.

Cheers for now!

[le Pingouin]

This is your 12 month WinXP expiry warning calling! Time to work out what you want to do. Win8 Pro upgrade can still be had for $56 here in Oz.