Iwo Jima on offer in 1982

[racedo]

Reagan Readied U.S. Warship for '82 Falklands War | U.S. Naval Institute (http://news.usni.org/news-analysis/news/reagan-readied-us-warship-82-falklands-war-0)

Enough time has elapsed to make it history but an offer to replace a damaged carrier if required in South Atlantic in 1982.

Also interesting that ex Head of SHAPE, Gen Al Haig, as Secretary of State was completely removed from any involvement because of his differing views on the outcome.

[Milo Minderbinder]

that links down at the moment, but its been claimed before.
As also have other claims that the ship offered was Oriskany

[Archimedes]

This is quite interesting - even though it's been said before - for several reasons

Admiral Sir Henry Leach (and, if memory serves, John Nott) said that the offer was for a fleet carrier, not an LPH.

Could I deal with the question of the carrier first. We were aware of that most generous offer. It would have been a United States fleet carrier and she would have been handed over. It would have been for us to man her, run her and operate her. Now without going into too much technical detail, suffice it to say that the Americans for their main propulsion machinery use high-pressure steam. We do not, and the difference in the operation of such machinery would have taken – I wouldn’t care to put a precise time on it – finite time to have made our people safe and effective operators of that ship, quite apart from the significantly differing characteristics in terms of aircraft handling and so forth. Quite apart also from the fact that we in the Navy then no longer had any fixed wing aircraft and a certain amount of adaptation, cross training or whatever with our Royal Air Force colleagues would have been necessary. Rightly or wrongly, and I believe correctly, although it was a highly generous offer, it was not taken up. (Institute for Contemporary British History, Falklands Witness Seminar, 5 Jun 2002)So - did Admiral Leach not recall correctly when he made the point in 2002 at this seminar? Or was there the prospet of Iwo Jima being followed by something a little larger?

Racedo - I think that the piece suggests that Haig was told (by the by, his shuttle diplomacy, it transpired, largely involved saying to Galtieri 'look, you're going to get your @rse kicked. For God's sake, negotiate and get off the islands' by the end of the shuttle mission). It was the rest of State who were left out of the loop because of their divided attitude about whether to support us or the junta.

[Milo Minderbinder]

assuming Oriskany was offered, how realistic would it have been to fly the RAF Phantoms and Buccs off her? Was there enough of a skill set left to do it? Were the aircraft still capable?
Or would the Harriers have been the only option?

[racedo]

Arch

Remembering the time Haig was definitely not in same camp as Weinberger and was opposed to UK reclaiming islands. Figure keeping him out was deliberate policy as state and defense in US generally don't get along.

[Marcantilan]

Caspar Weinberger first offered USS Eisenhower, but the offer was declined on early May (common sense...)

USS Eisenhower was in the Med (Tunis) on April 1982 and apparently moved near the South Atlantic later.

Regards!

[PhilipG]

assuming Oriskany was offered, how realistic would it have been to fly the RAF Phantoms and Buccs off her? Was there enough of a skill set left to do it? Were the aircraft still capable?
As I recall it no Phantoms ever operated off the deck of an Essex Class Carrier, something to do with the wooden decks and cats and traps as I understand it.
As others have stated manning the carrier with "foreign" systems would have been a major work up programme.

[sandiego89]

assuming Oriskany was offered, how realistic would it have been to fly the RAF Phantoms and Buccs off her? Was there enough of a skill set left to do it? Were the aircraft still capable?
As I recall it no Phantoms ever operated off the deck of an Essex Class Carrier, something to do with the wooden decks and cats and traps as I understand it.
As others have stated manning the carrier with "foreign" systems would have been a major work up programme.


In 1982, there were still a decent cadre of F-4 and Bucc crews still in active service- some were with the RAF and some the FAA as Sea Harrier pilots. The aircraft would have still been carrier capable as no major systems were permantaly deleted upon transfer to thre RAF.

An Essex or Iwo Jima would have been an entirely suitable repalcement for Harrier/Sea Harrier operations.

Agree a foreign conventional carrier would have been a huge work up challenge. A FORESTAL or MIDWAY class would have been a much better fit for the F-4 and Bucc, as the Essex would present many challenges. F-4 trials were conducted on at least one essex class, but F-4s on a essex present many challenges:
1. Short Catapult stroke. Perhaps allowing a near empty launch?
2. Landing weight of the F-4. Although the A-3 Skywarrier was much heavier and operated off the Essex, it had a lower appraoch speed, so the deck impact was less, and the strain on the arrestign gear was reduced. The F-4 would have stressed the arrester gear with higher landing weights & speeds (although the UK Phantoms were better in this regard than US Phantoms due to modifications)


A discussion here:

USS BON HOMME RICHARD (CV-31) - Page 3 - World Naval Ships Forums (http://www.worldnavalships.com/forums/showthread.php?p=170581)

[Not_a_boffin]

Back in 82, Oriskany had been out of service for about 6 years and the last operational Essex (standfast Lexington) decommissioned in 76. Given that Rusty B had been decommissioned in 80 and was judged beyond practical recovery in time for the conflict, I doubt that an Essex was anything more than a pipe dream. Tooms and Buccs (and more importantly Gannets) had last flown off an RN deck in late 78 - doubtful if they could have regenerated a sufficient skillset within a year of the go order even with access to a deck. A theme resonating with the present.....

Iwo Jima was at least operational and would have provided a usable deck for Harriers.

[orca]

Probably me being stupid....

If one of our flat tops was damaged we were going to take the crew off, and the aircraft, hop over to another ship and crack on...assuming they were all fine and the new ship was loafing in the starboard wait. (With no crew)

or....we were going to populate a new ship with 1000 or so spare hands and use the magically conjured air group of either phantom and buccaneer and a 'smartish' work up...or alternatively use all the spare Sea Harriers that had already been sent south with 809...

I have decided that I agree with whomsoever said this was a non-starter!

[racedo]

or....we were going to populate a new ship with 1000 or so spare hands and use the magically conjured air group of either phantom and buccaneer and a 'smartish' work up...or alternatively use all the spare Sea Harriers that had already been sent south with 809...


No the plan was to use "Contract US civilian personnel" as per article or "recently retired..................i.e yesterday" personnel to man and operate the carrier.

Not like it hasn't before or since......................Croatia had lots of "recently" retired US and German senior officers and personnel holidaying there during break up of Yugoslavia