UK - Apprenticeships scheme to train pilots

[avturboy]

An interesting development from the UK government ...

BBC News - Apprenticeships scheme to train pilots and lawyers (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18535397)

[cavortingcheetah]

But it is so demeaning that the likes of Vince Cable think that pilots and lawyers are cut from the same crooked cloth. But then he is himself an educated man prone to intellectual distortion and false glide paths.

[covad83]

Why don't they cut VAT on training costs to open it up to more people, rather than give a few lucky apprentices a freebie!!

I can't see this happening, in fact only £217,800 is all that will be available for commercial pilot training, split between Jet2, BA, Monarch, CAA and Flybe.

[Robert G Mugabe]

Not to mention the supply and demand problem. Too many pilots and not enough jobs

[Libertine Winno]

"It cannot be right that only 4% of women are registered commercial pilots"

Erm...why not?!

It is a simple fact that most pilots are plane geeks, and most plane geeks are men! Most nurses, social workers and primary school teachers are women, because women are caring and nurturing by nature. Is that wrong as well?!

Equality does not mean that every job in every walk of like must be represented 50/50. Where does it stop? "Your company must be made up 50/50 of women, ehtnic minorities, the over 50's..." All equality means is that people should not be discriminated against because of their age, sex, or race, and as far as I can tell the airlines do not operate a 'no women' policy!

The only real discrimination in the airline industry today, therefore is that it is elitist. Essentially, if you don't have access to about £90k to train, then you are going to struggle.

If Vince and his MP cronies actually did care about young people, they would make funding more readily available to train or make it more financially viable to offset costs at an early stage via tax breaks. Of course, the chances of that are about as likely as people understanding what 'equality'is really about...

[monkieboy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18535397

Report from the BBC today (22Jun12) of plans for pilot apprenticeships. Great idea, but not sure where the statistics come from saying there are pilot shortages and airlines need to recruit over 90,000 pilots! Am I missing something?

[zizi_87]

I don't think the point regarding female pilots should have anything to do with this scheme. Is the idea of the scheme to give the opportunity of commercial flying to those who cannot afford to privately fund the training? If so, how is this anything to do with the gender disparity? If not, does it mean that the apprenticeships will be available only to women?

Also, I don't believe any FTO charges women higher fees than men or discourages women from flying so surely the reason for only 4% of commercial pilots being women is because more men want the job than women do!

[Livesinafield]

Lol "apprenticeships" how about just use up some of the thousands of unemployed pilots first, then there will be no shortage

[mad_jock]

BA will get some money for employing a few females and that will be that.

The ladys in question won't get a reduction in thier training costs.

[pudoc]

BA will get some money for employing a few females and that will be that.

Well that explains that then. I hope they don't discriminate over men, the reason there are less women pilots is because most of them don't want to be pilots!

From the article...

For example, it is estimated that between now and 2030 European airlines will need to recruit 92,500 new pilots.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

[mad_jock]

Again that sodding boeing report crops up :D

[Professor Plum]

Saw this in the Mil forum, and thought this may be interest to some of you....

BBC News - Apprenticeships scheme to train pilots and lawyers (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18535397)

A step in the right direction hopefully!

[mad_jock]

if you are a lawyer or a engineer.

I would extremely doudt that any individual will see a penny of it for pilot training

[FANS]

There's no shortage of willing pilots at the moment!

[mad_jock]

They won't change it and won;t publish a new report.

The same report will keep getting reused through different organisations like it did with the IACO training conference. And more youngster will get suckered into parting with cash with a small liekly hood of ever breaking even on the investment.

[BerksFlyer]

Those Boeing figures don't take into account current airframe retirement either.

Just goes to show how clueless politicians can be that they believe this shortage rubbish.

Either way, what do they mean by apprenticeship? They surely don't mean that they are re-writing the rule book and coming up with a new way of training. In which case they must just be talking about sponsoring some individuals along the well-trodden path, probably at the usual FTOs. And once those individuals finish they would surely find themselves unemployed like most trainees at the moment.

BA have their FPP so the only reason I see them being interested (the article claims they are) is to either win some brownie points or to try and reduce their cost of gaining pilots - which is all but nothing at the moment anyway seeing as they don't do sponsorship.

[leenffc]

So do you think this apprentership scheme will be carried out or not? also is there any more news on this ? this would be a great opportunity for me as far as finance goes...
thanks

[Adios]

You're all making too much of the 4% women comment. I doubt that is the driving force behind the scheme. A steering group is the driving force. I'll bet the politician was merely asked by BBC to comment and he picked the diversity red herring while ignoring the real importance of the apprenticeship. It would be illegal to discriminate against men in a City and Guilds Apprenticeship, so 96% of this money will be for blokes.

Do C&G Apprenticeships incur VAT? I doubt it because they should be treated the same as university degrees since C&G is not for profit. The more cadets on the scheme, the more funding there will be through the VAT savings. Give £1,000 to 217 cadets and let them all save VAT. If the VAT were £10K, then it is another £2.17 million wannabes don't have to fund. The VAT might be even more, but each FTO is different since not all training is UK based.

[ChrisIngham]

BBC News - Apprenticeships scheme to train pilots and lawyers (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18535397)

This is very exciting especially if it will be available. After passing selection for 2 of the leading flight schools only to be scuppered by finances I would jump all over this if available. Does anyone have any other info on this as yet? Many thanks.

[bluecode]

I wouldn't bother getting too excited about it. There is zero chance the training will be fully funded. At best it will be a couple of grand and competition will be

The comment that only 4% of Commercial Pilots are women simply betrays his complete lack of understanding of just how the system works. There is no bar to women becoming pilots other than the fact that most women take a realistic look at it as a ridiculous career and leave it to the sad dreamers, mostly men.

[FlyerJoe]

I think if the Government really cared then they would give pilots the same 'student finance', or at least be treated as students and be entitled to the same tax breaks and benefits. For most pilot training is terribly expensive and it can be a big factor on whether or not to go to university which would involve another £40,000 or so at £9,000 a year.

[mad_jock]

To be honest they would be better giveing it to GAPAN to dish out.

Then they could dish it out piece meal depending on personal requirements etc. And attitude etc on the previous course.

But then the integrated schools wouldn't get a shout at any of the cash so would lobby against it.

[jez d]

Why don't they cut VAT on training costs to open it up to more people, rather than give a few lucky apprentices a freebie!!

I can't see this happening, in fact only £217,800 is all that will be available for commercial pilot training, split between Jet2, BA, Monarch, CAA and Flybe.


There appears to be some confusion here. The headline £25m was funding for research into, and creation of, new higher apprenticeship schemes, the majority of which was earmarked last December. A remaining £6m from the fund is being handed over to the development of apprenticeship courses for pilots, lawyers etc, recently announced.

On the pilot front, City & Guilds, in partnership with Jet2 and an, as yet unconfirmed FTO have until the end of next March to develop an National Qualifications Framework approved apprenticeship for commercial pilots which could then be rolled out nationally, open for all UK airlines and all training methods, i.e. both integrated and modular.

If approved then students should (not 'will') be eligible for student loans and VAT may (not 'will') be removed from flight training course fees. Additionally, as the apprenticeship will involve a direct tie-in with an airline, said airline should (not 'will') pay students a minimum national wage during their training and employ them in various departments during the length of the course to broaden their airline operations knowledge in order to develop transferable skills which a NQF-approved apprenticeship requires.

The above courtesy of an informative article in the July edition of Flight Training News.

[BerksFlyer]

It would be a terrible idea for the government to hand out student loans for pilot training. Most loans would never get repaid.

So if this comes into fruition, what would become of the private training industry? Surely the FTOs will be throwing their toys out of the pram because there won't be nearly enough airline-backed courses to justify all of their existences?

[jez d]

Surely the FTOs will be throwing their toys out of the pram because there won't be nearly enough airline-backed courses to justify all of their existences?

Yes, but this is for UK airlines only and thefore the self-sponsored route will presumably remain for those seeking entry to airlines outside of the UK. And given the time and financial input required from airlines running apprenticeships, the UK airline industry may chose to ignore it or only use it sparingly.

[V1 VR V2]

Have there been any further updates or news on this terrible scheme which will lead down the route of existing frozen ATPL pilots being obsolete!