How does one safely flee to another country with a combat aircraft

[Octane]

without getting shot at BVR, groundfire, etc etc? How would you get close to a suitable landing area. I suppose a very slow very long straight in approach might help? Could a co conspirator help by 'ringing' the embassy? Just curious.

Pity the pilot didn't take out Assads Palace before he went on holidays....

Cheers

Octane

[tartare]

Squawk friend instead of foe - or 7500 7700?!
Broadcast your intention on 121.5...?
Fly very slowly w/ wheels down and lights on...?
Maybe some knucks can shed light on what would constitute a non-threatening profile...

[Surplus]

The 'Eyes in the Sky' would probably see a single A/C taking off from Syria and heading to Jordan as either:-

a) A very small attack on a now friendly nation, or

b) Somebody not wishing to face a court in the Hague for 'crimes against humanity' sometime down the track.

[L J R]

mmmmm.....Why are you asking....?

[ShyTorque]

How does one safely flee to another country with a combat aircraft

Where are you thinking of going? :p

[Red Line Entry]

Don't worry, the survival scramble plan for Leuchars and Lossie in the event that Alex Salmond takes control will be promulgated soon.

[baffman]

While the practical difficulties of surrendering a flying aircraft are obvious, surely "wheels down" was a recognised indication of intention, at least in WW2.

[Octane]

If I had to flee Melbourne (it's bloody cold) and I couldn't get a Virgin flight to Denpasar or similar cos the world was coming to an end, then I guess I'd have to go for a P3 or C130 in order to reach NZ. Bugger, guess it'd be a bloody big handbook 'cos they have 4 propellors. No, I'll go for the C130, probably easier to put down in one piece when I forget to put the gear down and well, that ramp, awesome. Perfect for unloading valuable cargo's. Now I reckon entry to NZ would be dead easy once I worked out the radios. Something like this maybe? "mayday, maday, mayday" This is C130 Mercy Flight Papa India Sierra Sierra. Running low on fuel and pilot incapcitation looming. POB 1, cargo 25 Pallets Aussie cold ones. Request immediate assistance, chase plane if possible. My vision is fadiii nn nnnng. Hurry! Over"
They'd be over me like a rat out an aqueduct, then again how would they shoot me down? Arm up some of them P51's, P40's they have up north, nah, use the Spitty. 2nd line of attack of course will come from the Fokkers and Sopwiths boys stationed down south. Bit bloody cold for those chaps this time of year of course. Guaranteed to freeze your woolly castor oil soak rag to your whiskers.
Can't try and put her down at a major port, screw up the landing I'd surely lose the lot. Ah got it! Take a 27 meg CB radio and get on the blower to a friendly sort, the sort with a bloody big truck and a dash of Kiwi inginuity...!

If this sounds like the ramblings of a demented soul, I've been stuck in ICU for 2 days and they won't let me out. I'm losing my mind......!!!!!
And before any smartypants infers I'm on too many meds, last night I was informed it's time for your painkillers! Oooh I say, what flavour? A 'flight' somewhere would be good! Sorry sir, you don't understand, I need you to roll over and assume the fetal position!!!!!!! ArrrrrrrrrgH
Can't quite look at him the same anymore. Strangely I feel more cheated than violated. Hence my nighttime flight of flight to NZ full of booze prepared to take on any fokker who helps me out and we'll have a few cold ones..

[NutLoose]

If it was a Harrier, I believe the standard procedure was to hide under the tarp with enough food and water for several weeks or so, then when you dock seek assylum at your nearest US Port Authority.. :O

[eastern wiseguy]

If only there was a song about a Puma and Monaghan .............

[teeteringhead]

If only there was a song about a Puma and Monaghan ............. ... or even "Here Today - Guatemala!" ;)

[SASless]

Its been done before....several times.

Rule One....Go before the War starts.

Rule Two...Go as low and as fast as one can.

Rule Three...Surprise everyone and show up at a major civilian airfield.

Dress like Buster and Nutloose on a pub night and no one would take you for serious.

[Whenurhappy]

...or, in the case of the Luftwaffe, forget which side of the Channel you are on and let down at a friendly airfield, only to be conflonted by an Orderly Officer in his No 1s, on his bike, waving the Mess Webley (vide RAF Pembrey and a FW 190).

[NutLoose]

Dress like Buster and Nutloose on a pub night and no one would take you for serious.

:{:{:{

Noooooo

[endplay]

In my Rapier days it was called a Lame Duck procedure and it was slow, low, lights on and wheels down. And don't forget your St Christopher medal.

[denachtenmai]

Octane, just for you :)

Mig Pilot: The Final Escape of Lt. Belenko: Amazon.co.uk: John Barron: Books

Regards, Den.

[diginagain]

In my Rapier days it was called a Lame Duck procedure and it was slow, low, lights on and wheels down. .......and still you wouldn't have been able to hit him. :)

[BEagle]

Back in the days of fun and Tacevals, there was often the opportunity to practise a 'defector' incident. And great fun it was too!

We once did one at Leuchars, playing the part of a defecting Sovietski. Some of the questions put to us by ATC (I could just imagine the Incident Cdr saying "Ask him....") gave us scope for endless amusement:

"Why do you wish to defect?"
"Because we like your blue jeans, Beatles records and biro pens. And in Soviet Union, only cabbage sandwiches to eat!"

"Do you have any women on board?"
"If you had seen our women, you would not ask this. All drive cranes or tractors on collective farms!"

We also passed our height in metres - which caused them confusion. Had they asked for it in feet, we would have given it in feet. But they didn't - so we didn't.

Not a single F-4 managed to intercept our VC10K2 bumbling along at FL200, then after we landed we simulated that the air engineer had been a loyal communist and hadn't wanted to defect - so had shut all 4 engines down on the runway intersection. Whereupon ATC said "OK, point made. Please just taxy forward onto the short RW".

There must be quite a number of 'defector' exercise stories out there - such as the Vulcan crew which, upon noticing that they were being chased by the fire wagons, promptly turned round and went racing towards them...:\

[Headstone]

All joking aside a young west German by the name of Mathais Rust caused a bit of bother and a few heads to roll in the Soviet high command when he flew in a light aircraft from Germany to Red Square via Keflavik and Helsinki completely undetected through supposedly the best Soviet air defences in 1987-ish

[charliegolf]

If only there was a song about a Puma and Monaghan .............

It would have to be an album!

CG

[Octane]

Thanks Dena,

Nice thought, looks like a good read. Does Amazon deliver to ICU? I really don't intend to stay here too long (in a good way that is!)

Cheers

Octane

[Out Of Trim]

Whenurhappy

Re the RAF Pembrey FW190, the pilot was arrested by an Air Traffic Controller with a Verey Pistol!

[BEagle]

While RAF Lulsgate Bottom was having the final touches made to its new hard runway, the first aircraft to use it on 24 Jul 1941 was a brand new Ju88A-5 whose inexperienced Luftwaffe crew from 3/KG30 had been spoofed by an early RAF EW system and thought they were actually near Brest....:uhoh:

After querying a group of workmen nearby, the crew realised their error and legged it back to the aircraft, only to be nabbed by a truck full of soldiers of the King's Own Royal Regiment.

Uffz. Hosie, Fw. Zimmermann, OGfr. Sander and OGfr. Riemann subsequently spent the next few years in a PoW camp....:bored:

[ShyTorque]

... or even "Here Today - Guatemala!"

Some of us were asked to go and come back a bit later..... Mind you, we had to watch out for the DC3 fighter aircraft.....

[Waddo Plumber]

I'd have surrendered to a someone holding a verey pistol held at close range!

[Pontius Navigator]

As said above, at high speed and low level.

The arrival should, I believe be at medium level, speed below 250 kts, wheels down, landing lamps on. Also execute triangle flight path and await escort.

But the a catch of course is that your previously friendly country is only a few miles away so best you get a bit further into your new country before trying for a lame duck.

There is of course another catch. How does your planned new country execute its air policing? If, like UK, you have lots of empty airspace then you can afford to rely on ground based interceptors. If, like some previous WPC bordering a potential hostile state then air policing may be achieved by SAM!

[TEEEJ]

Headstone,

Mathias Rust recounts being intercepted.

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Eight page article at following link.

The Notorious Flight of Mathias Rust | History of Flight | Air & Space Magazine (http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/rust.html?c=y&page=1)

The defection of Soviet Pilot Captain Alexander Zuyev is an interesting story. MiG-29 to Turkey during 1989.

Defection of Soviet Pilot Cpt. Alexander Zuyev to the West in 1989 - YouTube

[Milo Minderbinder]

Nutloose

quite amusing that that book is available to download on two Russian websites..... they obviously aren't too worried about copyright infringements!

[Whenurhappy]

Ah, ok. A very pistol would ruin your day! I've got a photo taken at an 11 gp airfield (courtesy of AHB) with a FW 190 in front of the tower, OO bike resting against the u/c (with OO leather Satchel) and a chalked 'DO NOT TOUCH' on tje spinner - and a crowd of curious RAF personnel surrounding it. Always wondered whether the pilot was taken to the Mess for speck mit eier.

[stilton]

Belenko's tale is fascinating. Just as good and equally interesting is 'Fulcrum' by Alexander Zuyev.



His book details how he defected to Turkey in his Mig 29




Well written and a great read.

[P6 Driver]

For any defecting fast jet pilot I would imagine the use of seat straps would not be required as your buttocks would be biting into the seat cushion strongly enough to hold you in place whatever happened.

[NutLoose]

Milo, I never downloaded anything, I simply read it all on line, fascinating reading BTW, I at the time hadn't even realised it was the book, I thought it was just him relating to the incident. Since your post, i have removed my quote as I never realised.


.

[Hueymeister]

My late grandfather was there to 'apprehend' the pilot, who had been at university in Wales before the war. Gramps was servicing an aircraft when the 'Butcher-Bird' taxied by. He said he didn't pay any attention to it as aircraft were always to-ing and fro-ing. He felt the hairs on his neck prick up, then realised he was looking at a Swastika! The guy apparently handed himself over to the ground crew!:}

[Basil]

There has to be more than meets the eye in the Zuyev defection :hmm:
Wonder what he's doing now - apart from watching his six?

[Wander00]

VERY carefully

I'll get my coat!

[onetrack]

Basil - "Pushing up daisies", I believe its called ....

"On June 10, 2001, Alexander Zuyev was killed along with the famous aviator Jerry 'Mike' Warren in a crash near Bellingham, Washington, USA when their Yakovlev Yak-52 entered and failed to recover from an accelerated stall"

[TEEEJ]

Basil,

Alexander Zuyev died in an air crash in the US during 2001.

The Yak-52 was on a Title 14 CFR Part 91 cross-country flight, aircraft number two in a flight of three. The pilot of the third aircraft, a Yak-18, witnessed the crash, saying the Yak-52 initiated a turn to the southwest at about 1,500 feet mean sea level, then "...stalled and pitched nose down at about 40-60 degrees." Reportedly, the Yak-52 then rolled to the right, pitched up and oscillated around its vertical axis. Witnesses stated that the accident airplane rotated 2-3 times prior to impacting terrain. The pilot of the Yak-18 stated the accident airplane impacted terrain in a relatively level attitude with little forward motion. The crash killed Alexander Zuyev and Jerry Warren.

ASN Aircraft accident 10-JUN-2001 Yakovlev Yak-52 N52BG (http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=59619)

Apologies to Onetrack as I didn't see your earlier post.

[Basil]

Gentlemen, thank you for the information.
I'll stick my head above the parapet and suggest that it seems to be an odd accident considering the abilities of the pilots involved.
OTOH, an RAF QFI, and two FJ pilots died in a light aircraft crash some 44 years ago.

[onetrack]

Basil - Yes, indeed, it does seem strange, but highly qualified pilots still make errors that result in fatal air crashes, every week. The final report is rather concise, to say the least.

The only statement relating to possible cause is - "Post accident inspection of the airplane and associated components revealed no evidence of a pre-impact mechanical malfunction or failure."

Perhaps a clue is in the report: "It was also noted that the cockpit instruments and switches were marked with Cyrillic lettering and no English markings or conversions were noted."

Perhaps it was an error in control recognition, due to unfamiliar language control markings/instructions? I cannot find who actually was the PIC/CFI?

Cause of Yakovlev YAK 52 Air Crash in Custer, WASHINGTON, USA on 6/10/2001 - AirCrashed.com (http://aircrashed.com/cause/cSEA01LA116.shtml)

[NutLoose]

Well at least he went doing something he clearly enjoyed, better that than a prod from a brolly or a smattering of radiation over ones lunch.

[Hueymeister]

Whenurhappy.

Please post a copy of the photo, my grandad might be in it!

[Royalistflyer]

During the Korean War a communist MiG15 defected at a joint BCOF/American base. It just joined all the American Sabres in the pattern and landed in turn - no one noticed. The pilot deliberately headed for the British side of the airfield - but the Americans sent armed troops to take him and the aircraft from the British and took the pilot and aircraft to their side, subsequently claiming publicly that he had defected to America. There was a British tower report of the whole incident.

[GreenKnight121]

Kimpo AFB was not a joint BCOF/USAF base.

There was at least one Australian squadron ( No. 77 I/F) there, as well as South Korean squadrons.

[mikelima1948]

I was interested to stumble upon your thread about the JU88 that landed at RAF Lulsgate Bottom. Do you have any more information on this incident, please?

Kind regards