FAST test, maybe we all have a problem?

[Dogman]

Had my annual medical about 4 weeks ago. All the usual stuff required. Part of the questionnaire ask questions relating to alcohol use. 4 questions are asked of the candidate.


The FAST Test

1. How often do you have eight or more drinks on one occasion?
__ Never ***__ Less Than Monthly ***__ Monthly ***__ Weekly ***__ Daily or Almost Daily
2. How often during the last year have you been unable to remember what happened the night before because you had been drinking?
__ Never ***__ Less Than Monthly ***__ Monthly ***__ Weekly ***__ Daily or Almost Daily

3. How often during the last year have you failed to do what was normally expected of you because of your drinking?
__ Never ***__ Less Than Monthly ***__ Monthly ***__ Weekly ***__ Daily or Almost Daily

4. Has a relative or friend, a doctor or other health worker been concerned about your drinking or suggested you cut down?
__ No ***__ Yes, but not in the last year. ***__ Yes in the last year.

Scoring the FAST Test

Score questions 1, 2 and 3 as follows:
Never -- 0 points
Less than monthly -- 1 point
Monthly -- 2 points
Weekly -- 3 points
Daily or almost daily -- 4 points
Score question 4 as follows:

No -- 0 points
Yes, but not in the last year -- 2 points
Yes, in the last year -- 4 points
The maximum score is 16. A total score of 3 indicates hazardous drinking.

If a person answer "never" on the first question, he or she is not a hazardous drinker and the remaining questions are not necessary.

If a person answers "weekly" or "daily or almost daily" on the first question, he or she is considered a hazardous drinker and the rest of the questions are skipped.

If a person answers "monthly" or "less than monthly" to the first question, the other three questions are needed to complete the screening for hazardous behavior.

I answered "less than monthly" to the first 3 questions ( I was being honest..... Silly me), thus incurring a total score of 3.

I recently received a letter from CASA advising me that my score of 3 on the FAST test represents "potentially hazardous behavior" :=. I must now undertake a further blood test for Liver function, carbohydrates etc......All at my own cost.

I do not consider myself a problem drinker... ( maybe that's the problem?) Even as I filled out the questionnaire I knew I shouldn't have been so honest. I guess I just wanted to try it out, and now I know :ugh: Admit to having a few drinks less than once a month and you might be facing further examination from the regulator.

I'm inclined now to never again tell the bloody doctor anything....... Of course I know that is just how I feel at the moment being frustrated and angry.

Dogman


As an aside, a few weeks ago I was DAMP tested and passed not a worry...:D

[Sarcs]

I recently received a letter from CASA advising me that my score of 3 on the FAST test represents "potentially hazardous behavior" :=. I must now undertake a further blood test for Liver function, carbohydrates etc......All at my own cost.



That's just unbelievable! So they're basically saying if you drink socially or have a couple of beers in the evening then lie about it....or be tainted as a potential problem drinker and incur the extra charges on your medical from then on....I hope all the FOI/AWI fraternity submit to this as well??:ugh:

[Jabawocky]

I scored 1

You must be a naughty boy :}

Interesting test though... :uhoh:

[Anthill]

Question 4 is totally stupid and relies on input from individuals who may have had no health care training.

ie: My sister* may be a strict mung bean eating, non-smoking, tee-totaling, vegan type food nazi who is "concerned" that 1 stubby of lite beer is going to cause cancer, brain damage, liver failure and global warming. She might tell me this on a monthly basis.

I would thus be compelled to answer 4) with a "yes" and thus gain 4 points, requiring all sorts of BS and expense. :uhoh:

It's all bloody stupid and my DAME says so too.

* fictional character for illustrative purposes only.:ok:

[Counter-rotation]

Dogman, I can explain what has happened here...

They simply had your FAST test marked by the same incompete... ah, people who screw up Flight Crew Licencing exams on a regular basis. Perhaps you could pay an exhorbitant fee for them to correct their error. :D

And BTW, sorry to hear you had to learn the hard way. Never, NEVER tell the CAA (refer other thread for the missing "S") anything. Yes, an awesome culture to cultivate between pilots and the regulator - but you simply don't have a choice with the way they behave. :ouch:

Next thing you know, if you answer "monthly" to the question "how often do you watch TV shows featuring criminal activity" then you'll be on a watch list for your ASIC.

[Checkboard]

Isn't there a legal defence against being required to incriminate yourself? ... A defence which is designed specifically to stop fishing expedition witch hunts :hmm:

[E&H]

Australia...one minute so much going for it, the next pathetic...

...the land of bitch n' snitch...

Sorry you had to learn the hard way dogman...any medical issues discuss them with your non aviation GP first then figure out the best way to tackle it...not saying don't report it, just make sure you know what you are getting yourself in for..

[Checkboard]

I'm surprised it isn't a one word questionnaire, which simply says:

1. Are you under the age of thirty, and work as a pilot North of 20ºS ?

*** If "Yes" - then they can respond: We have identified "potentially hazardous behaviour", and require a blood test for Liver function, carbohydrates etc :rolleyes:

[glekichi]

We just need to drink out of larger vessels like real men. :E


I know... I know... standard drinks.
The average 6 pack of beer will put you well and truly over their threshold.

[Sarcs]

What next! Maybe a test for 'problem gambling'...."your licence is hereby revoked as you have a predisposition for pushing/pulling wrong buttons/levers!"...."you can apply for a dispo if your initials are "JP" and you have proof that you own a casino...and give generous donations to any of the following political parties..LNP,ALP,LP!":ok:

[MyNameIsIs]

2. How often during the last year do you wish you were unable to remember what happened the night before because you had been drinking?



1. How often do you have eight or more drinks on one occasion?
__ Never ***__ Less Than Monthly ***__ Monthly ***__ Weekly ***__ Daily or Almost Daily***_Never - but have 4 drinks on two occasions. (1st occasion is before half time...)


Maybe they are better questions?

:E

[Ralis]

Treat CAA like mushrooms, feed them **** and keep them in the dark:ok:

[Jack Ranga]

Dogman, a mate of a mate answered honestly and is being monitored by CASA. Once word gets around about what he has gone through I doubt anybody will tell the truth to those questions which sort of defeats the purpose :ugh: He has lost a lot of weight though!

Jaba, did you really score 1? I reckon you scored # in the last week!

(# Can't have a joke anymore in this politically correct joint so will not joke about scores........sort of)

[Jack Ranga]

glekichi, I know some of your mates that would score ## :E

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Hmmmm!

I never have more than one drink at a time.

Define "occassion" !!

Dr

[TriMedGroup]

"My name is Alistair, and I'm a hazardous drinker"

[Lookleft]

Same goes for the question "Do you ever fall asleep in front of the TV?" The fact that you have done 500 hours in the past 6 months. as indicated on the form, doesn't seem to suggest a cause and effect to CASA.

[Two_dogs]

When I do my medical each year the answers never change.

Just answer NO to everything except the one about 20 min exercise. :suspect:

[FJ44]

Quote:
2. How often during the last year have you been unable to remember what happened the night before because you had been drinking?

How would I know if my blackouts were due to drinking? I'm not a doctor. My blackouts could be due to anything

Because you wake up in the garden wrapped around a bush, holding a beer and a torch with flat batteries... :E
or Ayers Rock New Years... :mad:

[FJ44]

Circumstantial at best.

Sounds like a cover story for "Can't remember...":ok:

[Worrals in the wilds]

4. Has a relative or friend, a doctor or other health worker been concerned about your drinking or suggested you cut down?
__ No ***__ Yes, but not in the last year. ***__ Yes in the last year.To the tune of 'Two Little Boys' (with no disrespect to the original song which is nice, and I did hear this version from a serving member of the ADF)...
So you think you can lie your arses off,
Well we can lie our arses off too;
Bugger off, and don't be crying,
We're better at this s:mad:t than you...
:E
If they ask stupid questions they must expect stupid answers.

IMO the only question that counts: On every occasion when you showed up for duty were you unencumbered by the effects of alcohol or other narcotics?

If the answer is yes then nothing further need be asked. Do they do a Myer Briggs horoscope as well? :ugh: Ask if you're getting five serves of vegies a day? Eating crew meals would make that difficult...:}

[propelled]

holy f**k! does this mean i have to tell my Doc that I had 6 cans of JD while enjoying the origin tonight in my upcoming medical?>!! lol
bloody hell!! hazardous or what! hahaha...
Go the Blues btw... u can do it guys!!

[jas24zzk]

As someone 'saving' for my next medical. Very happy to have read this thread.

Yes Baswell...just another reason this country is pissing me off.

[propelled]

yes, im taking this information in also for my medical too! thanks guys for the heads-up.. but seriously, so long as u aren't affected by alcohol for duty as a pilot.. then what does it matter to those stooges?
Myself, i wouldn't drink 24+hrs prior to a flight anyway.. but when i do want a drink, sure, i can go hard! lol.. too many squares in canberra trying to rule the world.. or should i say their own world..
cheers guys!
and go blues!

[Jack Ranga]

holy f**k! does this mean i have to tell my Doc that I had 6 cans of JD while enjoying the origin tonight in my upcoming medical?>!! lol

Only six? Soft :E

Carn the blues

[propelled]

lol@Jack..

see, i only said 6 incase the stooges are reading my post :E

hahaha... 10 pack for $37! not bad, almost there...

Go BLUESSS!!!

[Jack Ranga]

hahaha... 10 pack for $37! not bad, almost there...


10 minus 6 equals 4 (save for breakfast)

[propelled]

hahaha, nah mate they all be gone soon.lol
hang in there Blues! 15mins to go, 2 cans left.. :ok:
cheers

[propelled]

hang on, the question was (per occasion) right?
i like FTDK's take on it = Define Occasion>?!! lol
:E

[Jack Ranga]

I take the soft comment back :E

Pleeaaaassssse Blues

[compressor stall]

Is a bottle of wine one drink?

[propelled]

thats it!:ok:
Pilots definition handbook...
Define a 'Drink'
Define an 'Occasion'
etc etc... lol
cheers!

[jas24zzk]

Crikey,
TF i drink vic. on special atm. 2 slabs for 72.

the more you drink, the more you save :ok:

[propelled]

haha love it!!

yeh i like to start on beer... but my fav gotta be the JD!
but then again, im not an employed pilot yet... so i can still afford it aye..lol..
not long now though..
:ok:

[jas24zzk]

well when you get to celebrating your employment, you and others might find this site useful...


Boozle - Finding Australia's Cheapest Alcohol (http://www.boozle.com.au)

[propelled]

haha thats awesome! thnks for the link@jas24zzk!

Hey Dogman, hoping that these extra tests required for your medical dont cost too much $$... let us know how you go.. cheers.

[Lodown]

Dogman, welcome to the world of the government run organisation. The cynic in me would say that this questionaire has less to do with your level of alcohol consumption and more to do with the CASA being able to compile an "official report" for the benefit of the Australian public demonstrating that it is making a concerted effort to identify and eliminate alcohol abuse within the aviation industry, but what would I know? Your honesty would be highly regarded by the appropriate people in the CASA, because a zero in the box of potential alcoholics on the official report would not look believable on the minister's desk. The skeptic in me would hazard a guess that most of the people in the CASA would roll their eyes at the content of this questionaire, knowing full well that no booze respecting, diehard alcoholic pilot would ever answer the questions truthfully unless already highly inebriated at the time of the survey, but once again, what would I know? It appears to me, that there are so many grey areas open to interpretation in the way the questionaire is worded that a lawyer could drive a fully laden Carlton Draught truck through it, but what would I know? It seems to be an exercise in trying to make an objective assessment of subjective opinions.

Coming in 2013: a new questionaire asking for honest answers to..."Have you ever flown below 500ft AGL over unpopulated areas intentionally or otherwise except for the purpose of taking off and landing?" Remedial action will be required for any respondents answering yes. This will be followed in 2014 by a survey asking for responses to..."Have you at any time in the past, either intentionally or otherwise, while flying VFR, flown in less than VMC?" BTW, my response is "absolutely not!" to both previous questions. I hope this doesn't appear on a background report for a job application for you at some stage in the future. You might want to pose some questions to the CASA to find out.

[Dogman]

Many and varied replies thank you......

I phoned CASA and expressed my dismay that score of 3/16 is considered "potentially hazardous"..... I only got silence or no answer at all. But what would I know?

Doctors appointment and blood tests booked. My only concern is that my medical expires in less than 30 days..... God knows how long the results of these tests will take to come back, or get processed by CASA?

After nearly 20 years of flying I would say my drinking levels are far more reasoned and responsible now that when I first started. Certainly in my current role these days I would never take the chance. Anyway what would I know?

DM

[T28D]

It is not just the Sub Continent Doctors that are the problem, if you have a hiccup guess what ????? the first words from the CLARC group will be threatening.

Not for them the normal approach to legal matters, ask for the facts, weigh and decide the corrective course of action, if all fails go legal.

No the heavy hand of the threat to involve the DPP comes first, no wonder we don't trust them.

[Worrals in the wilds]

Candidates need to be in possession of certain items like towels, slippers, mosquito net, white handkerchiefs, dressing gown, hangers, electric iron etc, on arrival at AFA.Sounds a lot more civilised than Kapooka (not that I'd know first hand, being one of nature's civilians :}).
Tin mug, boots, hootchie...jocks optional, though the link below does mention irons (and iron cleaner, maybe useful after Cervelle Grillée de Fer experiments?). Dressing gown and white hankies? Don't even think about it.:E
For females: the equivalent of male attire mentioned above. Do not bring any revealing or showy clothes as you will not be permitted to wear them. Ensure that you bring enclosed shoes and no high heels (you won't need them).
Army Recruit Training Centre : GET ORGANISED BEFORE ARRIVAL (http://www.army.gov.au/artc/getOrganised.cfm)

[T28D]

I never thought I would say this BRING BACK THE MALASIANS

[Homesick-Angel]

This one is close to the bone for me having worked in depth with drug and alcohol dependent people.

Type in "is AA for you australia" into
google and answer the questions. Be honest..

I like to sink the boot into CASA, but alcohol is a very serious and expensive problem in this country and seeing as we are involved in a safety based industry why not try and make sure the people are healthy. .

Alcohol and its peripheral effects are responsible for a huge number of accidents and long term health issues.

Why not address it through the medium of a medical? Sure if people are victimized then it is no good, but monitoring a person doesn't fall into that category . I assume the monitoring is due to a problem that has shown up medically?
Most people who have a problem with alcohol don't see it that way, or can't face up to it..

[Stikybeke]

Good point Spotlight....

I never thought of it in that light. Strange though, I could've sworn I put a post on this thread about something but then maybe I thought I did but I really didn't or maybe I just forgot I did. This phenomenon has happened to me before, I'm sure of it!

I guess then if I answer no the majority of the DAME questions I can do so citing the defence that I can't remember what I did yesterday, let alone last year!!! (lol!!!)

Stiky
:D

[Ollie Onion]

What I love about this is that people are very quickly going to learn to 'adjust' the results so that you don't have to do the extra checks. What a waste of time :ugh:

I had over 6 beers last night watching the telly, I have decided though that it was on two separate occasions as there were 3 before dinner and 3 after :}

Homesick-Angel - you say that alcohol is responsible for many accidents, can you name a single RPT accident or incident that is directly attributable to alcohol. This is what drives me insane about CASA, they are not going to effectively regulate alcohol consumption by using this test that relies on the alcoholic to dob themselves in. They should be carrying out more random breath tests, not the rediculous testing regime that they have at the moment, I have been breath tested twice in the last two months, BOTH times we on turnarounds after operating into Brisbane and Sydney!! I asked the tester what the point of testing arriving pilots was as unless I had been drinking on the flight (both over 4 hours) chances of me being over the limit are not great. On the second occasion she said that she had a quota to make and catching inbound flights was easier than inconveniencing crew signing on for work :ugh:

[Jack Ranga]

Alcohol and its peripheral effects are responsible for a huge number of
accidents and long term health issues. Why not address it through the medium of a medical? Sure if people are victimized then it is no good, but monitoring a person doesn't fall into that category. I assume the monitoring is due to a problem that has shown up medically? Most people who have a problem with alcohol don't see it that way, or can't face up to it..


I don't doubt anything that you say, in fact I agree. In my experience the only people who do something about their drinking, WHEN IT'S A PROBLEM, are the ones that get caught, i.e. DUI. I have a feeling some of them want to get caught. It's that much of a problem for them that they haven't got the strength to do anything about it until their career, a relationship etc is on the line.

Getting someone to 'dob themself in' wont work, they wont do it, most of them hide their 'problem' very well. This stupid policy is once again window dressing, being seen to be doing something rather than actually doing something. How many studies did it take? How much money was spent to come up with this ridiculous questionaire? Did they do a statistical analysis on how many people were going to bullsh!t on the answers? I'll bet they did on that last question but it was more important to them to be 'seen' to do something rather than actual solutions to the real problem.

Some people can have 20 beers in a session and not have a drinking problem, some can have 2 and have a problem.

[jas24zzk]

I think we are drifting a lil here. Seems to be tending towards the 'fit for duty line'.

If we go back to page one, and the original poster put down the results of his 'questionaire' and the extra testing now called for.

I agree that its a turd of a questionaire, but the resulting tests, and now the public knowledge of them, has probably made us all a little more aware of the affects on our health beyond the hang over (if you get them).

Its a good oppurtunity to assess these things, maybe visit your GP if you think you may have an alcohol related problem. Maybe an effect of the booze was something you didn't know before.

It might be CASA's way of trying to educate us, funny way to go about it I know......maybe they should back it up with a $10m mailout :ugh:

[aroa]

cant find the island of Malasi in the atlas. Enlighten. Typo???
and meaning...??? :sad:

[Woodwork]

Problem drinkers - and to be honest, if you did answer anything except "never" to the first question, then the AMA would define you as one and so would I - suffer from associated health complaints relating to kidney and liver function, as well as poor blood oxygenation.

It sounds as though the tests ordered are intended to scan for those things.

I don't see a problem.

If it's truly invasive, then lie, and know that at some point in the future a CASA inspector on a bad day will look at your Facebook profile pictures or photos of your bucks night, cross-check them against your questionnaire answers, and inform you you've committed a serious offence by making a false statement that could disqualify you from being a "fit and proper" person to hold an aircrew licence (and would certainly imperil your employment).

Your chosen course of action is one that you, as a rational adult, can probably decide yourself with no need for advice from the internet :}