ALL wannabes please read! Truth about aviation!

[flyboy11]

I cant believe the arogance of people on this board. Mechantloup speaks the truth and is correct about so many things in aviation. All people do on this board is criticise him because they don't like what he says i.e. the TRUTH! It really shows the ingnornace and disregard for other people's opinions. Some people say they have an MCC and CRM after this display I question your training.

I think you people on this board are very rude people. I wonder if we had a face to face conversion would it all break down into chaos and anarchy because you simply wouldn't allow people to voice themselves. I think this would be the case unfortunately.

You think because you have spent a fortune on your JAA licence that gives you the right to:

(a) snub other countries licences which are loads cheaper such as the USAs. Because yours is expensive that equals good or the BEST. WRONG! You snub the FAA's question banks which are made avaiable to people. But your own JAA questions are such a mess you don't even understand the questions themselves. The questions are based on no syllabus known to man bar a few JAA burocrats in Brussels. But yet you have the audacity to critise.

and (b) think you have some right becuase you have spent all this money to walk into any Airbus job in any airline without lowering YOURSELF to air-taxi work and other LOWLY forms of aviation, that well isn't worth a mention becuase you don't get to wear a fancy uniform. With only 200 hours!

YOU ARE WRONG MY FRIENDS ABOUT A GREAT DEAL OF THINGS!

I can't believe people on this board who say its great i've just got £30K from the HSBC now I can do my training. They seem to be so naive, they don't seem to think they will have to pay back 45K. But hey, theres no telling these people. They have a comeback 'Whats 40K when you are a Captain of B777!' WRONG AGAIN MY FRIENDS! TRY paying it back when you are JOBLESS!

There seems to be a total lack of awarness of the current climate. There are simply NO jobs in aviation!

Get a JAA PPL and have some fun in the sky but DO NOT go any further becasue it is simply a waste of money, time and energy. The only ones who benefit are the JAA and the flying schools. Look at your flying school. I bet many members have their JAA ATPL/IRs. Have you had a spin in their A320 which is parked up by the flying school buildings? NOPE I DON'T THINK SO. Its because there are no jobs. Most of the members with CPLs are doing jobs that they were doing even before they started flying.

The airlines only want people from the RAF and sponsored cadets. How many times do I have to tell you! Everyone else ends up with a CPL and no flying job OR becoming a career flying instructor. Airlines simply do not want people who have paid for their training.

Spend your 50K on your flying. Be in debt for years! If you are very very lucky you will end up flying a air taxi in bad weather, during the night in hurried sectors. Mass and balance will usually be exceeded and you will dare not say anything because you will lose your job! This is aviation my friends but only for the lucky few.

As for the ones on this site who have got jet jobs, well they are few and far between. You don't hear about the guys who fail and give up because many of these can't even afford a decent computer let alone the internet!

Take this advice on board. As for the the 'wannabes' who have a route all planned out upto their MCC but haven't even clocked up an hour in their logbooks, I pity them!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Well you're a bundle of joy. Truth be told I hardly ever see anyone on these forums denegrating the FAA licence. Its just that it is "worthless" in the Europe because it would be illegal to fly a European aircraft with it.

There are jobs out there. My company have hired DOZENS of low time FO's this summer. I met up with a few old students last night in Glasgow on a nighstop. On was just about to start the sim course on the 75/67 for Britannia, another two were waiting that day for their base flights with Logan on a Saab340 and the other was happily buzzing his turboprop around waiting fot Airtours to take him onto their jets being that they sponsored him.

Yeah we did talk about where some of the other students were and what they were doing and it came as no real suprise to me or them that the weaker students had found no work.

The flying schools are not rich not profiteering. The fact they charge a lot more than their US counterparts is simply due to higher levels of taxation and costs assoociated with employment and GA in Europe.

The glass is both half full AND half empty.

WWW

[foghorn]

Once again our multi-personality friend Ronchonner sets up another username to lend credance to his rants.

Once again we see a diatribe about the same old subject.

Change the tune or shut up, Ronchonner, we're bored. Personally I preferred the one about yellow tattoos.

Why do you have this compulsive desire to make yourself centre of attention? Is it because you're bored of Flight Sim 2000 and are waiting for the new version to come out?

[Tiger_ Moth]

A chilling vision of things to come!

I think its true though, you hear people saying theres a shortage of pilots but its rubbish! It seems incredibly hard for a self sponsored person to get a job with an airline. Someone said they had 1500 hours flying and they didnt even get an interview from an airline. Just because someone hopes to get a job with 200 hours it doesnt mean they are arrogant, maybe mis- informed though or perhaps just desperate.

[The Islander]

Loser

[Mister Geezer]

I will say it again.

There are jobs out there! There always is despite a fewer number at some periods when compared to other times.

It is down to the amount of effort that you put in and determination you have in finding your first job. Ideally you should be prepared to move ANYWHERE and fly ANYTHING. If you have that attitude and pull the stops out in finding that first break then you will find a break sooner or later!

MG

[mechantloup]

Good comment Flyboy!.
Apparently people on this bord ask me to shut up cuz they don't like to read my comments, but guys who have paid a fortune in one of these flight schools in England has the right of speech.****GUYS! your money is gone, and there is no flying job for you, do you UNDERSTAND???*****

Good luck with your airline job.... ;)

[BmPilot21]

flyboy11 - shut up!

I know self sponsored people who, in the last 12 months have secured jobs with:

bmi british midland (Airbus)
bmi regional (Embraer 135/145)
British European (Dash 8)
Ryanair (737-200)
GO (737 Classic)
british regional (turboprops)
GB Airways (Airbus)
Maersk (737)
Airtours (757)
Brittania (757)
Virgin Express (737)

Need I go on?
Just because you don't have a job....
There are (were?) jobs out there, if you were in the right place at the right time and were good enough. I agree putting down £50k to do a flight training course is risky, but a lot do it, and many succeed. If you've got the determination, and you're the sort of person they're looking for, you CAN get a job.

[Superpilot]

Today Ronchonner you overstepped the mark :mad: You have become so predictable, I mean we don't get Combat-18 loving, QPR supporting pilots posting on PPrune everyday do we? Where did you say you lived? Hownslow thats it! a bit too exotic for you Ronc.

You're sick in the head!

[G SXTY]

If anyone is tempted to take this cretin seriously, please don’t. Flyboy11 (aka Mechantloup, aka Ronchonner) entertained us hugely at first with his semi-literate rants about the JAA, his vast experience on everything from the Wright Brothers’ Flyer to the Space Shuttle, and his curious obsession with penile tattoos. :rolleyes:

Unfortunately however, the ramblings of this pubescent FS2000 captain have started to wear a little thin, and this week – of all weeks – there are a lot of wannabes like me who need to stay focused on their goal, and not allow anything – or anyone – to deflect them from it.

Normally Ronnie, I’d laugh you off as the fool you are, but with the way you’re throwing stones at wannabes 2 days after the worst catastrophe aviation has ever seen, just when many people will be at their lowest ebb, I sense something far nastier about you. Shame on you. :mad: :mad: :mad:

To everyone else, good luck one and all.

[DESCEND WHEN READY]

Well said GSXTY
Great to hear that their are still people out there who have a single minded one track aim in becoming an airline pilot. Although you may all have spent alot of money on flying you have to remain positive and think of the long term gains.
Dont discredit instructing or bug smashing because it will eventually make you a real pilot who has alot more hands on expereince.
I am a wannabe in OZ and I can assure you that hundreds of pilots with commercials here would love a job flying a little rust bucket.
I personally have a job doing everything from instructing to IFR charter to get the illusive four digits in the logbook. Not 300 hours which everyone seems to comlain about in the UK.
Instructing may not appeal to everyone however teaching someone to fly themselves and see their face at the end of it makes the hard work worth while.

Keep working hard all you Wannabe's and it is you guys I hope to see in the bars around the world after you have piloted you jets around the skies.

[GonvilleBromhead]

Flyboy, Ronch etc etc...

Don't you have any mates or something ?

(I know, childish of me, apologies for language but what an a$$hole). :mad:

[Polar_stereographic]

I've kept out of any discusions that involve ronch and his aliases.

My 2d's worth is I'd like to see the moderators delete the posts as soon as they see them, and failing that, EVERYONE just ignore then. They bring nothing to the party and devalue this forum.

I'll say no more.

PS

[Delta Wun-Wun]

Flyboy,
You may or may not be Ronchonner/Merchantloup.If you are not and haven`t had the pleasure of his inane ramblings,let me tell you a few things.
No-one has been asked me to spend loads of money trying to get a job in Aviation,it is a decision that I have made.I know the risks involved and the chances of getting a job are low.Yes it does cost a fortune for a JAA licence.No I don`t think FAA licences are any better or any worse than JAA,it is just I have no right to live and work in the US,so a FAA licence is not worth the paper it is written on to me as I can`t use it to get a job in a JAA country.Ronchonner/Merchantloup has been told this loads of times,BUT he doesn`t seem to understand.

[Manflex55]

Once again,

EGLL01/flyboy11/grognon/mechantloup/mormoner/renaudierre/rodolphe/ronchonner/trouduc
are all different names for the same guy (a fellow french citizen) whose only goal is to entertain us ! Don't bother taking him seriously, he probably has a red nose, pink sunglasses & a funny hat. He may not even B a pilot. But he's one of those guys who make PPRuNe such a special place. What to do with each of his posts ? Read it, have a good laugh & forget about it !

MF

[Leviathan]

Absolutely Polar, very important that we don't have inarticulate posters telling people things they don't want to hear, they should be banned for propagating a viewpoint contrary to the mainstream, Facism I think they call it......

[MAX]

All Wannabees,

Despite negativity promoted by certain individuals I emplore you all to keep your chins up as there are jobs. As Ive discovered and Im sure many others have too. Look at others success as inspiration to pursue your goal.

MAX :cool:

[GonvilleBromhead]

Leviathan,

You really have no clue whatsoever do you ??

I do not generally respond to posts in an attempt to have a go at an individual, but please, wake up and see that what this "contributor" (Flyboy et al) is all about, particularly in current circumstances.

Don't bandy about with words like "fascist", save them for an appropriate occasion.

Are you an ATPL holder ? Prospective ATPL holder ?

If so, you know this idiot is a simpleton and has no concept of reality. If not, then please, try and impress your teeny girlfiends with your use of vocabulary, not us, we're simply not interested mate.

Hmm, shall I wait a few minutes for you to check out a dictionary to "have a go" at me with the use of some more emotive/irrelevant choice of words ?!?

PS. All the best with the GCSE's or your equivalent.

Lads, sorry for having a rant at this, but please....

[mad_jock]

I actually want to encourage the chap.

The more wannabies who give up because his posts means less competition for me when i start applying.

Keep it up froggy, your doing a grand job.

MJ

[Leviathan]

GB,

I'm not going to get into a pi$$ing contest with you over this, I've reviewed FlyBoys original post and although it wasn't very positive, it was just an opinion. To suggest banning individuals because they post negative views on a situation is crazy. As for Ron and his various namesakes you take them way too seriously.

To address the only valid point in your post I concede that I may have used the word Facism in the wrong context. BTW as you asked I have an ATPL and over 4,000 hours.

After making a reasonable challenge on my post you then reduced yourself to Ronchonnesque (did I just say that!)playground catcalling about my vocab, girlfriends etc. I know you didn't mean that as a personal attack, because that isn't the kind of crap you'd expect from a 43 year old adult is it? ;)

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

'I can't believe people on this board who say its great i've just got £30K from the HSBC'

Shut up you pratt, I will have you know I spent 3 hard years saving the money for my pilot training!! Enough said, I cannot even be bothered to waste my energy typing....

[AH64 APACHE]

I am going to have to say something about this one as it involves me and G-Sixty you know who I am am.

With regards to the the JAaa thing - I do beleive that there are more pilots than there are jobs in the Uk and Europe at the moment. However it seems that at the moment that not everybody is dishing them out - ie BA et al...


It would be unrepresentative of things to say that people who left the course and di not get offers of jobs were weak - I think that they were just weaker than the strong candidates - for WWW to say otherwise would be unjust. Maybe some airlines are looking for somthings and some others is life and we will live like that but to suggest that some are incompetent is just blatantly unjust. Shame on you.
:rolleyes:

[scroggs]

Let me just try and state a couple of facts for you all.
Anyone here can express an opinion about things that affect Wannabes. There is no rule that says that opinion should be sensible, well thought out, or have the agreement of any other person who reads it, as long as it doesn't stray into abuse or topics inappropriate for this forum.
While Flyboy11's post was a little immature, and very simplistic, it was just an opinion and, as such, entirely valid. I'd like you to note that all the vitriol and abuse came from those who disagreed with him, some to the extent of wanting the post removed. I'll leave you to guess which individuals I think less of.
If you want to conduct an intelligent debate, and have your posts taken seriously, think carefully about what you say and how you say it. Insulting, angry and bad mannered posts will not achieve your aim.

[foghorn]

Didn't necessarily disagree with flyboy/Ronch/whoever (if indeed he is one and the same), was just bored and exasperated with the old anti-JAA rant, and annoyed with his hectoring style, which makes me think he is the same person. It's the same style that OCB (who is now banned) uses down there in Jet Blast, although at least this one is aviation-related.

The subject has been done to death a million times, and has been pointed out time and time again, is completely academic to those of us with no green card and who want to fly in Europe, because we need to have a JAA licence.

If he is who I think he is, people have tried to reason before and have got nowhere. Hence the exchanges get very sharp, very quickly. I'm sure that if Flyboy wasn't Ronch he'd be very quick to deny my accusation - he's been surprisingly quiet thus far.

If we want to have a sensible debate about the merits and demerits of the two licensing systems, then personally I'm all for it, it's the purile "yaa boo sucks my system is better than yours I'm an FAA pilot I get all the girls I pity all you poor Europeans spending your Eurodollars......yellow tattoos on your dicks" that gets my back up and will draw a sharp response from me. Flyboy11 voiced his opinion in inflammatory terms. I voiced my opinion of who I think he is and what I think of his pet subject and his motivation behind it in equally inflammatory terms. Surely I am equally entitled to my opinions?

foggy.

[ 15 September 2001: Message edited by: foghorn ]

[Mister Geezer]

I am sitting here at my computer laughing at this thread and the others in the past which were similar when you start putting it all into context.

This is nothing more than a kiddies argument!

"My FAA licence is better than your JAA licence."

At the end of the day a licence is a licence and if it allows you to fly for a living then why do we go round in circles bashing our heads together!

Need I say more?????

MG ;)

[G SXTY]

AH64 Apache
There you are! I was beginning to think you’d gone to live in that swimming pool!! ;)

Scroggs
Fair comment, you are the moderator. If you think our friend’s postings are acceptable then so be it, but lets put his post and my reply into context. Anyone who’s been around Pprune more than a couple of months will know the colourful history of Ronchonner (and if Flyboy11 & Mechantloup aren’t the same person, then I’m Neil Armstrong). We also know that attempts to reason with him are either ignored or met with his own brand of vitriol. Such people will pop up in any cross-section of society, and if you don’t like what they say, just ignore them – it is, after all, only an internet BB, and we know what we’re going to get when we click on one of his posts. Up to a point.

What I took deep exception to (and still do) is that while we are watching horrific news footage of 767s being flown into buildings, while the victims have not even been counted, let alone recovered, when aviation is suffering its most traumatic week ever, and when the short to mid-term job prospects for wannabes are looking distinctly shaky, our friend considers it a good time to pitch in with one of his regular rants against the JAA, and anyone training under it.

If my reply betrayed a hint of emotion, well it’s been that sort of week. Under the circumstances, I felt our friend had crossed the line from harmless eccentricity into spitefulness. I said as much, and would do exactly the same again.

(Incidentally, many thanks for your help on the other issue).

[avrodamo]

There is nothing more boring and irritating than litening to a sad failure who can't deal with his own misfortunes, and so inflicts them on everyone else. What a boring and uninteresting world we would live in if everything anyone ever set there heart on, and had true ambition to achieve was never accomplished because we might fail, or because there are no jobs. Switch on guy...Life is not a rehearsal, and it's far too short. You get one shot at it, and i like the ret of the wannabes on this site are gonna have a bloody good try at it. I will do what i have set out to achieve, and that is through determination and the abillity to get up and try again when things are not going my way. No one said it would be easy. It's hard, but of course there are job's, just like there are for every other career in the world :confused:

[flyboy11]

What a load of abuse. You have over stepped the mark my friends! As for Tuesdays disaster, if you need that as an excuss to opt out of flight training then take it! As for the rest, I’m pretty sure that the JAA and the prospect of having NO JOB at the end is good enough reason not to bother for half intelligent people anyway.

You wannabes have to learn to accept other peoples views- which can differ from your own rather than throwing YOUR rattle outside your cot. This thread is a disgraceful example of what I was saying all along.

Accept there are NO JOBS in aviation. I am not alone here. Look at BA, AA, Continaltal and a whole host of others which are now SACKING PILOTS! IS ROD EDINGTON WRONG AS WELL?? I DON’T THINK SO!

Bury your heads in the sand and spend your money. But after YOUR training you will have to step outside the bubble and ACCEPT reality- THERE ARE NO JOBS!

As for the THEORY that YOU know all these people who have got JET JOBS, well I’m sure I also know some NASA astronauts to- through the 6 degrees of sepration nonsense.

Keep your flying as HOBBY, for fun. do aerobatics, but don’t start on the road to a JAA ATP! I love watching films but it doesn’t mean I want to become a film director does it?

As for the diatribe? The only diatribe is YOU going on about Ronchonner rather than simply accepting your LACK OR NONEXISTANCE OF JOB PROSPECTS! YOU would rather fill this bord up with storys about RONCHONNER than TRY to comprehend THERE ARE NO JOBS!

If spending 50K is your sense of fun, well spend it! But don’t expect to walk into a job! You would be better spending 5K on a JAA PPL [the FAA PPL COSTS HALF AS MUCH AS THIS!] and go down to Las Vagas and spend the lot in slot machines in 1 night!


I KNOW YOU KNOW I’M RIGHT!

[foghorn]

"The only diatribe is YOU"

yeah, right ronch :rolleyes:

"JAA ATP" use of US terminology gives you away matey

Note that I'm actaully with mad_jock, the more wannabes you put off the more it helps me ;)

[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: foghorn ]

[Lucifer]

BA ain't laying off pilots yet.

You considered the cost of travel to the US to get an FAA PPL flyboy, inc residence etc?

The only positive thing I could say about your post is that it is good idea to have a backup line of work before embarking on such an expensive course, and have a means of keeping it current before the first job is obtained.

Gloating in other people's misery if indeed they are faring worse is not a good idea unless you want a good beating.

UK job prospects are at the moment far better than the US, and in the light of current events will be for the foreseeable future. Nobody expects to walk into a job, but perhaps you should research the UK system more thoroughly flyboy, and you may realise that jobs can be obtained with lower hours, therefore mitigating the disadvantage.


(PS get rid of the US is better than the rest attitude: you might learn a few things about politics and international relations which will prevent you getting a good beating)

[Pilot Pete]

Freedom of speech.

Let him post.

JAA/FAA, pointless argument.

All those who DID get jobs reply to him.

I'll start you off. 250hrs self sponsored - air taxi. 1000hrs F/O 757. My company are just about to start interviewing for 'a significant number' of pilots for summer 2002, their absolute minimum for 757/A320 is 700hrs TT. If you think there are no jobs then there certainly isn't one for you!

Do your homework, training doesn't stop at 200hrs and a CPL. Anybody else got a job this year during these 'crap times'?

PP :rolleyes:

[Evo7]

My instructor did, Pete. Seems ecstatic to have moved from a Warrior with me onboard to something carrying a bunch of hosties... :)


(friggin' spellin' :) )

[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: Evo7 ]

[foghorn]

Two previous instructors of mine have gone on to jobs in the last few months, one to a turboprop and one to a 737. In the words of the song they're luvvin it luvvin it luvvin it....

foggy.

[380]

flyboy

Agree with you that the US system is a lot better (cheaper). But I wanna live and work in Europe for various reasons:

-normal food.
-girls with normal wt/ht ratio
-social security
-4 weeks paid vacation per year . How much you got over there, one, maybe two weeks per yr ?

Flying in the US is nice, but I'm not a European loser who has to search his luck in America.

[GonvilleBromhead]

Leviathan,

I apologise for the "playground" tone of my post, out of order.

I agree that to ban someone's viewpoint because of its popularity or otherwise is not on, providing it's not abusive.

However, this guy keeps on banging the same old drum time after time after time. Once or twice ok, fair enough he's entitled to his opinion just like anyone else.

But at a time when wannabes maybe need a bit more encouragement back he comes again, never with anything new to add, nothing that will inform anybody of relevant information that could be of some use. Just the same old "JAA bad, FAA good, JAA bad FAA good" mantra.

Yes, I should know better and ignore him and in future I will; once again, apologies for my childish attack on you.

all the best,

GB.
:)

[Polar_stereographic]

GB

Spot on.

PS

[Leviathan]

GB,

It's been a rough week for everybody, thanks.

Good luck to all Gonnabees out there,

Leviathan

[Flyerphil]

I think all Wannabes must take a step back and reflect on the events of the past week.

There are too many doomsayers in these forums but they ALL, I repeat ALL, have an ulterior motive. I personally admit that if I am asked directly whether it is a good idea to commence an ab initio course I would say without doubt ...NO. It reduces the competition for when I achieve my licence - there... we have accounted for about 80% of the people on this forum.

I am going to the states (IFTA have just received CAA/JAA approval for their 22 week groundschool with the exams in the States) They are approved for all modules - the only condition is 10 hours in the UK for the instrument rating. The events of the last week might (OR MIGHT NOT) ****** this all up.

As regards jobs, the airlines will always be employing the highest calibre candidates, picking initially from the, shall we say, better known schools but if you make the grade, and are prepared to work from the bottom up the market will improve dramatically in the long term - which is what we are all looking at anyway.

Me personally, I do not see the US/UK arguments as being a handicap - I will have to pass all exams first time and with high marks, I will need to excel in flight training and take home a nice recommendation and rely on the fact that I have a couple of languages under my belt.

All I want to do is fly - I will be quite happy to work as a flight instructor until the cows come home - there is a worse job you know - anything in an office or even on the ground.

Thats the end of my ramblings - what can I say I am an eternal optomist.

p.s. With a 2 year J1 Visa I can work as an instructor for over a year in the States clocking up a ridiculous number of hours due to the weather and earn a nice income for a year - yes yes yes - I know that 2000 hours in a Piper Warrior isn't exactly top notch but it all counts.

[Shanks]

"I personally admit that if I am asked directly whether it is a good idea to commence an ab initio course I would say without doubt ...NO. It reduces the competition for when I achieve my licence - there... we have accounted for about 80% of the people on this forum."

Well I certainly hope that anyone else in such a quandary DOESN'T ask for your opinion. I thought this was a forum for for people with the same goals, passing on honest opinions and advice. A major requirement of an airline pilot is the ability to function in a team, I hope you pick up this skill during your training.

I was planning on starting an ab initio course in January, but will probably hold off until the summer - so there's one less "competitor" for you....

[Token Bird]

Flyerphil,

Sorry to get off topic, but you don't appear to have an email address. Could you tell me IFTA's website address if they have one. I've tried the obvious things, the CAA don't have it in their school directory and IFTA published an advert in an aviation magazine recently which had a URL that went nowhere.

OK sorry, you can all get back to your Ronch-bashing now. Have fun!

[Flyerphil]

Shanks - sorry I got your back up so much

Your comments while well meant do smack a bit of naivety. We are all in the same boat - I was merely putting accross a point that many of the responses to desperate pleas from Wannabes such as me with no training whatsoever are met with negativity and sarcastic put downs.

I will wake up in the morning feeling all good about my decision to do this and after spending 10 minutes in this Forum I go away full of doubts.

If I didnt believe in teamwork I wouldn't have written the bloo*y reply in the first place and I would have kept my head down and let this problem continue.

Anyway - best of luck mate - we may need it.

THIS IS NOT AN ADVERT - but as I have been asked for it the address for IFTA is www.intlflight.com (http://www.intlflight.com)

[Shanks]

Flyerphil - you may be right, but I'd rarther be naive than bitter ;)

If I got the wrong end of the stick, I apologise, I'm a bit tetchy right now with having to postpone well laid plans. Good luck in America, it's a brave step in the current climate, I hope it works out for you. Keep us informed on your progress, it's always good to hear the pro's and cons of other options.