PC-12 Down In Florida

[GarageYears]

Not good:

Story on CNN here: Kansas family dies in Florida plane crash - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/07/us/florida-plane-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

But would anyone care to comment or have further details on the following from the story:

Firefighters and police lifted the plane to make sure the sixth victim wasn't underneath, Judd said, adding the child may have fallen through a hole in the plane before the crash.According to the report debris was spread over 4 miles... :eek:

I fail to see how either the possibility of a 'hole' in the plane or a 4-mile debris trail can be the result of anything other than a mid-air collision? But no mention of this so far....

[fantom]

There are several other possibilities.
How about in-flight break-up? Overspeed maybe?

[GarageYears]

There is a pic in the CNN story that shows the crashed aircraft largely intact, though I'll grant the tail appears missing. Not sure about the right wing either now I looked again.

[TampaSLF]

Pics of site at this link Polk County plane crash 06-07-12 | TBO.com (http://www2.tbo.com/list/polk-county-plane-crash-06-07-12/gallery/)

Miami control was quoted on our local news as them being about 25 minutes out of clearing Customs at Ft Pierce approx 21,500 ft when a hard turn, followed by another hard turn and Mayday without details of the specific problem.
Lost from radar and no further comms.
A lot of effort is going into finding the lost 13yo boy who was verified on plane leaving Ft Pierce but not found at crash site.

Such a sad story. May the answers be found soon. Wx was rainy over whole state with embedded squalls, but not as strong as our "normal" summer thunder boomers.
CNN characterizes the area as swamp; actually it is upland scrub, so search and investigation won't be as difficult.

[Huck]

Huge storms in the area - and an almost 90 degree course change before the incident.

[GroundProxGuy]

Not exactly pertinent to the accident investigation, but interesting to me:

Casey Anthony: Casey Anthony rode on plane that later crashed, killing family of 6 - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-07/news/os-casey-anthony-airplane-crash-20120607_1_casey-anthony-todd-macaluso-plane)

[BobnSpike]

I can think of about two dozen reasons why an airplane might break up in flight. Assuming, of course, that in the absence of anything other than reports from notoriously ignorant and inaccurate news reporting agencies that an inflight breakup actually occurred.

I will give more credence to a midair being the only possible explanation when the other aircraft involved, or its wreckage, turns up.

[Lonewolf_50]

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/487554-have-any-you-flown-pc-12-a.html

Gents:

I began a thread this morning on the crash, in the forum for private flying, as that is where I suspected such a thread belongs.

My question remains, based upon a service ceiling of 30k, the report being that the plane appeared to run into trouble at 26k, and my assumption (possibly in error) is that the aircraft has a pressurized cabin type:

Would a loss if pressurization lead to quick incapacitation of the pilot and perhaps a spiral / dive/ death spiral, with break up happening well into the dive due to speed being exceeded?
That's where my brain went first, as I have no sense of what autopilot features this aircraft typically carries.

Now that I see what you all are seeing, perhaps flying into bad weather is a more Occam's Razor explanation.

Sad story. :{

[ATPMBA]

From the pictures of the wreck I thought it would be a survivable crash.

From my memory this is the 4th crash in the USA of this type aircraft in the last few years. Perhaps it is too much aircraft for the pilots who air getting into trouble.

[kenhughes]

I don't know how accurate the flight tracking records on FlightAware.com are, but it seems that the aircraft made a sudden 90deg turn to starboard at 12:33 and dropped below its stall speed at 12:35, but maintained FL260:

FlightAware > Flight Track Log > N950KA > 07-Jun-2012 > KFPR-3JC (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N950KA/history/20120607/1530Z/KFPR/3JC/tracklog)

It then returned to 255kts for three minutes before starting a descent.

[Lonewolf_50]

Ken, possible answer to your question is my idea that the chart presents speed as Ground Speed. What it thus may show is the aircraft encountered significant winds shifted aloft.

Aircraft appears to have also made a significant course change, though if for weather avoidance or route requirements, I've no idea without a chart in front of me.

If the aircraft were actually below stall speed, the altitude would not have remained the same, since stall tends to yield a fall.

Presuming, as you note, a certain amount of accuracy in that table.

[GroundProxGuy]

Some aircraft have an Emergency Descent autopilot mode when cabin altitude climbs well above 8000 feet that turns the aircraft 90 degrees (to get off airway and bring ATC attention) and auto descends to 12,000 feet or so. During the descent their groundspeed would be lowered.

But if the crew was incapacitated and never recovered the a/c should just fly the new heading at 12,000 feet until fuel exhaustion.

Perhaps a fuselage failure initiated emergency descent mode and incapacitated the crew, followed a few minutes later by worsening damage sufficient to depart controlled flight?

[Huck]

Time of useful consciousness should have been over 3 minutes after an explosive D at 260.

But he had to have a working mask on his face by then, or have descended below 12.5 or so......

Time of useful consciousness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_useful_consciousness)

[Lonewolf_50]

Huck: my experiences with Hypoxia in training chambers showed me that at 25 K, it takes about a minute or so to get loopy, for some, and up to three minutes for others. Point? He could have been one of those who goes loopy faster if decompression was what happened.

A great many questions unanswered.

[ctrautve]

Question: can the PC-12's cargo door be opened at altitude?

[BobnSpike]

Food for thought. Not speculating, though.

Probable Cause #1: Breakup In Flight (http://www.avweb.com/news/probablecause/191656-1.html)

Aircraft Accidents and Incidents - Wellsville, Missouri 63384 Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:15 AM CDT (http://www.aircraftone.com/aircraft/accidents/20070705X00878.asp)

[TampaSLF]

They fo0und the kid some distance from the impact site.
Officials find body of teen killed in Polk plane crash | TBO.com (http://www2.tbo.com/news/news/2012/jun/08/11/search-continues-for-teen-missing-after-polk-plane-ar-413540/)

[sevenstrokeroll]

so, could it have gotten into a thunderstorm, pilot over controlled trying to maintain altitude?

what is maneuvering speed in this pup, or it might be called rough air penetration speed.

does it really have an autopilot that will , upon loss of pressure, descend to 12,000 feet and perform an 90 degree change in course?

what do you do if you are over mount whitney and lose pressure? crash into a mountain??????

[MarkerInbound]

Don't know about the PC-12 but the Citation Mustang autopilot does have an ED mode. The pilot still has to close the throttles and extend the boards and gear. And they have to be functional at the level off altitude to add power and clean the plane up or you've just delayed the inevitable.

[Yankee Whisky]

Note the two wings are in the picture as is evidence of the propeller rotating in level ground contact. Seems to me the aircraft either fell to the ground in flat (spin ?) or forward speed condition. :rolleyes:

[sevenstrokeroll]

thanks marker inbound for info on autopilot for citation

each plane is so different now...

[mini]

Based on the pics of the aircraft all but intact at the crash site, plus the latest news that a pax was found some distance away, it would seem that it decended in a flat spin of some sort.

The PC12 isn't really old enough to suffer rot, looks like bad WX or a collision at this point.

mini.

[Murexway]

The Sheriff reported portions of the left wing, approx six feet of the right wing, and the horizontal stab were all found a good distance from the fuselage.

Don't know if the acft had wx radar, or what sort of anti/de-ice gear was installed - boots perhaps. Also don't know his quals or currency.

He could have penetrated a cell, he could have iced up, he could have failed to turn on pitot heat (as another poster mentioned) or it failed, or he could have taken a lightning strike that knocked out the A/P and electrically powered instruments - all while in IMC. A lot for anybody to deal with. Could be a bit like Air France 447 over the Atlantic.

[sevenstrokeroll]

yes, like air france

but air france didn't break up in flight, did it?

[BobnSpike]

Invalid syllogism. It is difficult to exceed structural limits in a stalled airplane. We do know that stall is only one possible consequence of loss of control.

We don't know why this airplane broke up. We don't know whether it broke up due to loss of control or the loss of control was due to the breakup.

Who knows; maybe the pilot stalled, just like AF447, recovered from the stall, unlike AF447, but then oversped or overloaded in the stall recovery.

Or maybe it was goats.

[ILblog]

No PC12 does not have ED mode of AP

Airframe of the plane is really robus, the plane was developed to land at worst runways imaginable. Where Twin Otter or C172 can land, PC12 can land too.

Rear cargo doors have several big pins. There is announciator in cockpit, that doors are not closed properlly. Cargo doors are not missing on pics of the crashed plane.

WX radar is at the end of left wing. So pilot does not see weather like 60 degrees on the right.

De-icing is effective unless you enter severe icing or if you fly a longer time in moderate icing. Some pieces of ice still remain on goodridges. Not so much.

PC12 has a quite thick aerodynamic profile (low stall speed) so I assume even with some ice on it, it is able to produce lift.

Stall characteristic of a plane is vary bad. That is why they installed shaker and pusher in it, to pass through certification. It goes inverted and then makes half of a loop. But as far as I know, maximum speed is not exceeded during this manouver.

[Pace]

There are a couple of hints in the second report.

The last recorded level was FL251 Although its cruising level was reported as FL260.

That could indicate the aircraft was climbing to its cruise level?
In such a situation especially with VS selected and the pilot preoccupied its possible the aircraft stalled.

As stated the stall is bad hence why certain "extras" were required.
I believe? and I dont know a lot about the aircraft that it will flat spin?

One witness reported seeing the aircraft flat spinning!

That is not in itself a high load state enough to break off a wing so surely that must have lead to some recovery manouvre which was a high load?

There are too many possibilities which lead to this very tragic accident and displaying the pictures of such a happy family unit brings it harder to home of what a cruel mistress aviation can be!


Huck: my experiences with Hypoxia in training chambers showed me that at 25 K, it takes about a minute or so to get loopy, for some, and up to three minutes for others. Point? He could have been one of those who goes loopy faster if decompression was what happened.

At 25K I wonder how anyone managed to climb Everest without oxygen if they would only last 1 to 3 minutes?


he plane, a 2006 Pilatus PC-12/47, was at an estimated altitude of 21,500 feet when it began having problems, said Tim Monville, a senior air safety investigator in Miami with the National Transportation Safety BoardT

Just missed this bit above


Pace

[Oxeagle]

If anyone knows the identity of the crew could they please PM me, a friend of mine flies a PC-12 out in Florida and I haven't been able to get in contact with him, which is very unusual and worrying

[Pace]

OxEagle

All the very tragic details are here

Officials find body of teen killed in Polk plane crash | TBO.com (http://www2.tbo.com/news/news/2012/jun/08/11/search-continues-for-teen-missing-after-polk-plane-ar-413540/)

[CrossFlowOpen]

If you look closely at flight aware, there is no sign of CB's in the location. As he gets close to FL260, his speed drops from around 150knots to 60 knots. That indicates he stalled it, then possible spin, hence the turn, then in the ensuing recovery, oversped the airframe and possibly caused some structural damage, which is why the young boy came out of the airplane some distance from the main wreckage. Obviously, he had some control, because he landed right side up intact, except for some of the right wing, and the tail that appears to be missing.

The impact almost looks survivable. As to a midair collision, I think its highly improbable, given that he was in controlled airspace, under Miami centers radar coverage, unless he hit someone on the way down, (not likely).

Real shame, nice looking family, from the photos posted online.

[inbalance]

All PC12 have a very efficient Stick pusher installed.
The Stick Pusher is tested before every flight. If it doesn´t pass the test, the autopilot isn´t working and that is a no go.
The Pusher does a very good Job in preventing the airplane from entering a stall.
I am 6 feet male, 220 lbs and I am unable to overpull the stick pusher.
The Pusher works on 2 independent AOA sources and doesn´t need airspeed info.

If this system had been installed on Airbus, I don´t think the AF accident over the south atlantic would have happened.

[sevenstrokeroll]

does the PC12 have a restroom of sorts?


could the pilot have left his station to use the biffy and the plane stalled, he was unable to get to controls?

I think all planes should have angle of attack vanes and info in the cockpit...even the Wright brothers had an AOA device (piece of string/yarn)

[Shell Management]

GroundProxGuy

No one else has picked up on your comment and link to this story. Casey Anthony: Casey Anthony rode on plane that later crashed, killing family of 6 - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-06-07/news/os-casey-anthony-airplane-crash-20120607_1_casey-anthony-todd-macaluso-plane)

What on earth are you suggesting?

[Murexway]

Wonder what his max ceiling was for his weight - FL260 with 6 on-board, vacation luggage, warmer than standard day, and fuel for Junction City? Might have been unable to make FL260. Got aerodynamic buffet at 25.1 and the stick pusher activated.....

Also, the registration was changed to his company, Roadside Ventures, LLC on 05/14/12. Looks like he only owned it for about 3 weeks.

[sevenstrokeroll]

is it possible that the NTSB chap who made the comment that he'd never seen anything like this before, simply inexperienced?

stall, spin, attempted recovery and over stress?

[inbalance]

Wonder what his max ceiling was for his weight - FL260 with 6 on-board, vacation luggage, warmer than standard day, and fuel for Junction City? Might have been unable to make FL260. Got aerodynamic buffet at 25.1 and the stick pusher activated.....

We are talking about a PC12 here. Not a Toy plane.

PC12 47 is capable of full fuel and 7 male people on board.(EASA standard weight incl. handbaggage,)
It can go up to 30000 feet with that weight without any problems, no matter what temperature.
Limiting Factor for the service ceiling of 30000 ft is the cabin pressure, not the plane or the engine.

[Sydy]

Well... It broke like a toy plane...

Let's wait for NTSB.

[Nearly There]

If you look closely at flight aware, there is no sign of CB's in the location. As he gets close to FL260, his speed drops from around 150knots to 60 knots. That indicates he stalled it, then possible spin,


As well as it being possibly inacurate, it also only shows ground speed not indicated..

[inbalance]

This data I have copied from flightaware:

Time speed altitude vs
18:28 147 22.500 600
18:29 147 23.100 600
18:30 147 23.700 540
18:31 147 24.200 480
18:32 147 24.700 480
18:33 147 25.200 600
18:34 68 26.000 360
18:35 60 26.000
18:36 255 26.000
18:37 255 26.000
18:38 255 26.000 -720

I am flying the PC12 since 7 Years now. Both, the old 45 , 47 and also the NG.
I very much doubt the flightaware data.

From 18:28 till 1833 the aircraft is keeping an airspeed of 147 kt.
During this time the aircraft climbed from 22500 ft till 25200 ft.
I have never had a flight where the groundspeed was exactly the same for 5 Minutes during a climb. Given that the autopilot was running, holding the airspeed constant, the true airspeed would have increased and the wind would have changed.

18:34 the airplane reached 26000 ft. The airspeed is so low, that the airplane would have stalled. 60 kt true airspeed equals 39 knots indicated airspeed.
If it stalled, it definetely wouldn´t hold the altitude constant during the stall.
At 18:36 for 3 Minutes it has a normal cruise speed of 255 kt again.
The PC12 can´t hold the altitude and accelerate from 60 to 255 knots in one minute.

The Stallspeed oft he PC12/47 clean, max take off weight is 95 kias.
The Stick pusher activates at VSx1.1. So it would kick in at 104,5 kias.
At 26000 ft that would eqal 158 kt true airspeed.

To keep the airplane unstalled with the 60 knots groundspeed flightaware is showing, we need some 98 knots of headwind. Just one minute before that the airplane is climbing with 147 kt of groundspeed.
Add the 98 knots of headwind and the airplane would have climbed with a true airspeed of 245 knots. At this high airspeed the PC12 isn´t climbing in 26000 ft.

This is another Point, that the data in flightaware isnt correct.

It is possible to recover from the stick shaker without altitude loss if you know what will happen and if you are very good trained.
It is impossible to do the same during pusher activation.
During Training at Pilatus for the NG, I had some thousand hours on the 45 already.
The best recovery from pusher was with 500 or 600 ft Altitude loss.
And I was expecting it, had just completed a type rating with EX military instructors and it was in VCM daytime.
I never recovered from that at 26000.

For the last 5 minutes the airplane holds 26000 ft. Any stall or pusher and the aircraft wouldn´t have stayed at 26000.


What ever happened, the flightaware data isn´t showing it.

So I am with Sydy, lets wait for the NTSB

[Murexway]

"We are talking about a PC12 here. Not a Toy plane."

Oh Wow, a PC12. FYI These considerations apply to ANY airplane at higher altitudes- even the largest jet transports.

[inbalance]

These considerations apply to ANY airplane at higher altitudes- even the largest jet transports.

@ Murexway,

you are wrong, the PC12 is better than many large jet transport. It can climb to max certified altitude with max take off weight, no matter what temperature.
The PC12 is an airplane.
So your considerations do not apply to ANY airplane.

Other Planes I fly can do that as well, The CJ3, C441 and the King air 200, 300 and 350.

[Pace]

Inbalance

I must admit that I have never understood the mentality in spending $4.5 mill to buy a single engine turboprop?
With that outlay and depreciation it makes a mockery of the single engine saving and lower fuel bills.
At the end you still have a very expensive semi detached house ;)
With that outlay I would go CJ1/CJ2 or a KingAir a couple of years old or less.
I have never flown the PC12 but have a few hours on the TBM.

Pace

[CrossFlowOpen]

I am not saying FlightAware is 100 percent correct. In fact in some cases it is totally wrong, however, based on what I see here, it kind of leads me to believe that he went from a normal climb speed of around 150 knots, ......to a much lower speed. What does that suggest ? If your ground speed drops nearly 100 knots, your airspeed probably did too. Please note, I said probably, not definitely. We know too, that there were several rapid changes of direction. Do you really think that was done intentionally? Lastly, at some point his airspeed increases dramatically. After a rapid loss of speed, and then an inexplicable series of turns, followed by a rapid increase in speed, you don't need flightaware to tell you he fell out of the sky, what other conclusion can you come to besides stall, spin/spiral, overspeed, structural failure, in flight breakup, crash, no survivors? The really sad part is, 6 people on board from the same family, and such a beautiful family too.

[Pace]

Crossflow

I would tend to go with your scenario as the likely cause a stall maybe followed by a flat spin (PC12 known for that) followed by a recovery into a high speed dive spiral and breaking the aircraft.

The end of a beautiful family is the tragic very sad conclusion!

Pace

[Murexway]

@ Murexway,

you are wrong, the PC12 is better than many large jet transport. It can climb to max certified altitude with max take off weight, no matter what temperature.
The PC12 is an airplane.
So your considerations do not apply to ANY airplane.

inbalance:

I didn't say that the limitation applies to any airplane, just the consideration. And I would not agree that the PC-12 can climb to its max cruise altitude no matter what the temperature.

From what I can tell from the only cruise performance chart that I could find online, the PC-12 (base model chart) can maintain max certified ceiling up to a maximum temperature of ISA +10, which is as high as the chart goes, and at a specific weight (which I presume to be max takeoff weight less climb fuel). At temperatures above ISA +10 (and they can occur) it would still be wise to consider whether you have the power to climb to your desired altitude.

Another consideration would be if you are at FL300 at ISA+10 at the max weight listed for that altitude and fly into warmer temperatures, would you have sufficient margin to maintain FL300.

Obviously, for normal operations, the PC-12 is not climb limited, which is very nice and one less thing for the pilot to have to consider - especially for an owner-pilot who may not have the time to remain as current as a professional pilot.

PS. From the perf charts, it looks like the PC-12 is a bit of a "hot-rod" and must be a blast to fly, especially at light weights :)

[inbalance]

I must admit that I have never understood the mentality in spending $4.5 mill to buy a single engine turboprop?

Show me any other Plane that will cost 4.5 mill or less that can do that:
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/6932/bild283n.jpg

The box weights 530 kg and was flown 1350 NM. Content was a ships turbo charger. No change to get it thrue the door of a CJ or King Air.

We started with a King Air 200 but sold it after a couple of years. The PC12 can do a lot of missions the King Air can´t. Landing and Take Off distance and Payload is far better with the PC12.

Yes, I know the PC12 has 1 engine only. But that has been discussed before.

By the way, we also operate a CJ3. A nice airplane.
Have you ever calculated the Landing Distance of a CJ3 on a snow covered runway ?


From what I can tell from the only cruise performance chart that I could find online, the PC-12 (base model chart) can maintain max certified ceiling up to a maximum temperature of ISA +10, which is as high as the chart goes, and at a specific weight (which I presume to be max takeoff weight less climb fuel). At temperatures above ISA +10 (and they can occur) it would still be wise to consider whether you have the power to climb to your desired altitude.


http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1245/pc12performance.jpg

This chart shows the performance of the PC12 NG at 30000 ft ISA + 30.
But I never saw ISA+ 30 at 30000ft.
Max take off weight of the PC12 47 and the NG is 10450 lbs.
It takes 350 lbs of fuel to climb to 30000 ft at ISA +30.

[TowerDog]

Show me any other Plane that will cost 4.5 mill or less that can do that:

That box looks like it could fit in the double doors of a C-206.

BARNSTORMERS.COM (http://www.barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=651833&ZOOM=924bb159ee8c60694e05078e051391db)

I don't get it either why somebody would spend millions on a single engine job, except for a Cessna Caravan hauling stuff in bush Alaska.

[inbalance]

Hello Towerdog,

you are right, it may fit into a 206. But the 206 does´t have the speed and the range. And the c 208 is a single turboprop too.
The photo is the only photo I have with me on my notebook. We do have bigger payload sometimes. We can load up to 4 europallets:

http://www.totregroup.com/img/Euro%20Pallet-Main%20View.jpg

Europallets are 1,2 x 0,8 Meter.

[greatplns]

As to some of your concerns as to if the plane was overloaded, I can assure you it was not. I personally knew Ron and his family. Their boys were wrestlers, his oldest and biggest son just wrestled at the kansas state wrestling meet in March. He wrestled at 106 pounds. Ron and Becky were not large people either, I'd be surprised if Ron even weighed 170.

This was a terrific, generous, kind and extremely tight knit bonded family. They would bend over backwards to help the kids in the community. It's hard to say how many kids they've helped send to wrestling camps and the like. Never asked for any attention or recognition. Just extremely kind people and this is absolutely a terrible loss for Junction City, Kansas State University, and Kansas in general. They will be missed.

[Sillypeoples]

Structural failure is the scary of scary for a pilot. Sounds like they got into a CB.

[AOCcrazy]

There seems to be a classic CRM chain forming from all the pieces that are muted in this string...

Repossessed aircraft only the month before (maintenance state? when the previous owner stopped paying the bank, he probably stopped paying the maintenence some time before that)

Pilot unfamiliar with new aircraft and flying alone.

Big weather conditions - for me he was trying to get out of or being thrown around by some big weather.Would explain the rapid directional changes.

The photos show the fueslage damage to be where the emergency exit is located. Did this fail causing explosive decompression? A few seconds of useful consciousness in an unfamiliar aircraft perhaps was not enough.

If the pilot was unconcious then the aircraft could end up in all manner of positions, including a flat spin to Earth

All supposition of course. My thoughts remain with the family and friends of the victims of this very sad accident.

[pc12_driver]

Having flown the ng for several years we're always conscious of asking for the anti-icing additive for our pc12's. One of the news reports I heard was of a guy saying he heard the engine revving up and stopping, like he was running out of fuel. Could have been a fuel icing problem, it's happened before in Butte, Montana. Just another possibility. In Canada we use it all year long.

[Machaca]

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/pc12scene10z.jpg

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/pc12scene2z.jpg

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/pc12scene1z.jpg

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/pc12scene3z.jpg

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/pc12scene5z.jpg

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/pc12wingZ.jpg

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/pc12scene4z.jpg

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n385/motidog/pc12scene6z.jpg

[inbalance]

Machaca, thank you for he pictures.

I notice that the Propeller is full feathered.
Propeller at the PC12 feathers if you lose oilpressure, or if the engine has been cut with the condition lever. Not if the engine quits by it self or lack of fuel during normal flight. Windmilling core engine gives enough oilpressure to keep the Propeller in fine coarse.

In a spinning aircraft the forward speed isn´t enough to keep the engine windmilling, so the propeller might feather then.

Both wingtanks are ruptured.

Did the left wintip come of during flight or on the ground ?

Ist that oil on the left windscreen or is it smoke from the post impact fire ?

Inbalnce

[Machaca]

Tim Monville, a senior air safety investigator in Miami with the National Transportation Safety Board, has stated that portions of the left wing, about six feet of the right wing and the horizontal stabilizer were some distance away from the site, and there was a post-crash fire.

The pilot acquired the aircraft just 5 weeks prior.

[ion_berkley]

On June 7, 2012, about 1235 eastern daylight time, a Pilatus PC-12/47, N950KA,registered to and operated by Roadside Ventures, LLC, departed controlled flight followed by subsequent in-flight breakup near Lake Wales, Florida. Instrument meteorological conditions prevailed at the altitude and location of the departure from controlled flight and an instrument flight rules (IFR) flight plan was filed for the 14 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 91 personal flight from St. Lucie County International Airport (FPR), Fort Pierce, Florida, to Freeman Field
Airport (3JC), Junction City, Kansas. The airplane was substantially damaged and the certificated private pilot and five passengers were fatally injured. The flight originated from FPR about 1205.

According to preliminary Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) air traffic control information, after departure, air traffic control communications were transferred to Miami Air Route Traffic Control Center (Miami Center). While in contact with that facility, about 1229, the flight was cleared to flight level (FL) 250. At about 1230, the controller cleared the flight to FL260, which the pilot acknowledged. At about 1232, the controller advised the pilot of a large area of precipitation northwest of Lakeland, with moderate, heavy and extreme echoes. The controller asked the pilot to look at it and to advise what direction he needed to deviate, then suggested deviation right of course until north of the adverse weather. The pilot responded that he agreed, and the controller asked the pilot what heading from his position would keep the airplane clear, and the pilot responded 320 degrees. The controller cleared the pilot to fly heading 320 degrees, and to deviate right of course when necessary, and when able proceed direct to Seminole, which he acknowledged. There was no further recorded communication from the pilot with the Miami Center.

According to preliminary radar data, between 1232:37, and 12:33:25, the airplane proceeded in a west-northwesterly direction, and climbed from 24,700 to 25,100 feet, then maintained that altitude for the next 12 seconds; however, a change in direction to the right was noted. Between 1233:37, and 1233:49, the airplane descended from 25,100 to 24,200 feet, and turned to the right, and between 1233:49, and 1234:01, the airplane descended from 24,200 to 22,500 feet, and continued the right turn. Between 1234:01 and 1234:37, the airplane descended from 22,500 to 10,700 feet, and turned to a southerly heading. Between 1234:37, and 1234:49, the airplane turned left and proceeded on a northeasterly heading. Between 1234:49, and 1235:37 (last secondary return at 1,300 feet), the airplane continued on a northeasterly heading.

The pilot of a nearby airplane reported to FAA air traffic control and NTSB hearing a Mayday call about 1 minute before hearing the sound of an emergency locator transmitter (ELT) signal.

A witness who was located about 1.5 nautical miles and 193 degrees from the crash site reported that on the date and time of the accident, he was inside his house and first heard a sound he attributed to a propeller feathering or later described as flutter of a flight control surface. The sound lasted 3 to 4 cycles of a whooshing high to low sound, followed by a sound he described as an energy release. He was clear the sound he heard was not an explosion, but more like mechanical fracture of parts. He ran outside, and first saw the airplane below the clouds (ceiling was estimated to be 10,000 feet). He noted by silhouette that parts of the airplane were missing, but he did not see any parts separate from the airplane during the time he saw it. At that time it was not raining at his location. He went inside his house, and got a digital camera, then ran back outside to his pool deck, and videotaped the descent. He reported the airplane was in a spin but could not recall the direction. The engine sound was consistent the whole time; there was no revving; he reported there was no forward movement. He called 911 and reported the accident.

Another witness who was located about .4 nautical mile and 125 degrees from the crash site reported hearing a boom sound that he attributed to a lawn mower which he thought odd because it had just been raining. He saw black smoke trailing the airplane which was spinning. He ran to the side of their house, and noted the airplane was still spinning. His brother came by their back door, they heard a thud, and both ran direct to the location of where they thought the airplane had crashed. When they arrived at the wreckage, they saw fire in front of the airplane which one individual attempted to extinguish by throwing sand on it, but he was unable. The other individual reported the left forward door was hard to open, but he pushed it up and then was able to open it. Both attempted to render assistance; one individual called 911 to report the accident and then guided local first responders to the accident site.

Preliminary examination of the accident site revealed the wreckage consisting of the fuselage and sections of both wings came to rest upright in an open field. Sections of both wings, and also the horizontal stabilizer and elevator were separated. The separated components consisting of sections of both wings, the horizontal stabilizer, and elevator were located, tagged as to their location, and secured with the main wreckage.

The pilot, age 45, held a private pilot certificate with airplane single engine land, and instrument airplane ratings.

[inbalance]

Thank you for posting the report.

Thats 19600 ft sinkrate.
Now we know why the plane desintegrated.

[Pace]

The advice from the controller regarding heavy precipitation and further advice to change course sounds very relevant especially regarding the initial loss of 1000 feet.

It sounds as if the aircraft hit a severe downdraught and stalled in the process.

A spin is unlikely to break an aircraft a spiral dive could do so.

It is possible with modern training methods to incipient that there was confusion over which state the aircraft was in and incorrect recovery methods used?

Whatever the aircraft was in a high rate of descent after the first loss of control enough to break it.

Advice to drop the gear beyond VNE springs to mind in beyond VNE dives?

With part of the wings and flying structures missing it was inevitable that a spinning motion would occur whether in a true spin or the aircraft not being in a balanced flying state.

A really sad disaster to a lovely family

[shattashaun]

From the looks of one of the pictures it seems as if the gear was down..So sad. We need to know what really happened as our company has 2 of these aircraft in its fleet/

[inbalance]

From the looks of one of the pictures it seems as if the gear was down..

The gear in the PC12 is held in the up position by hydraulic pressure.
Hydraulic pump is electric.
Gear emergency extention is free fall by removing the pressure.

Any damaged hydraulic line will lower the gear.

Inbalance