View Full Version : Knee Defenders
As seen on TV. They are plastic blocks that, when placed between your tray table support and the seat ahead, prevent it from reclining fully.
I saw these advertised years ago. And then I heard (in various places of questionable veracity) that their use could be considered tampering with an aircraft and possibly get one thrown off a flight.
But now they are back. Or perhaps they never left. What are people's experience with their use? And the reaction of the affected passenger(s) and cabin crew?
edi_local
7th Jun 2012, 15:02
I'm not the shortest of people and I'm used to long haul flights in economy and I can't say that I've ever been on a flight where the reclined seat in front of me has caused me great distress. I would be more annoyed if someone behind me was preventing me from reclining the seat I had paid good money to relax in on a 9 hour overnight flight, for example. If they want to guarantee themselves masses of legroom then they can pay for an exit row/bulkhead seat, request an aisle seat or pay more for a different class of travel.
If I want to recline my seat then I will do so, if the person behind me cannot deal with that then public transport (which air travel most certainly is a form of) is not for them and they do not have he right to prevent my seat from doing something it is designed to do.
Mark in CA
7th Jun 2012, 15:40
I try to be considerate to the person sitting behind me, like putting my seat up during meals, and would be infinitely pissed at someone who tried to do that to prevent my seat from fully reclining. Now, if they have something to prevent the person behind you from constantly kicking the back of your seat...
DaveReidUK
7th Jun 2012, 16:07
I believe both United and American, and possibly others, have banned their use.
Espada III
8th Jun 2012, 12:06
The LOCOs have the answer. Seats that do not recline. Makes life much easier for everyone.
I get so annoyed at passengers who rapidly recline the seat all way even as the plane is taking off, without considering the person behind. Even doing it during meal times which mean that it is impossible to bend ones head to eat normally. I have no objection to a gentle recline to a modest level and being considerate, but so many people are simply rude.
Dont Hang Up
8th Jun 2012, 13:35
The LOCOs have the answer. Seats that do not recline. Makes life much
easier for everyone.
Agreed. This is one case where the LOCOs have it right (even if they are only doing it for cost saving reasons).
In short-pitch high-density seating a reclining seat is invariably inconsiderate on the person behind. It's not just legroom - it is downright claustrophobic having the seat in front inches from your face.
Making the seats non-reclining is cheaper for the airline and of very little consequence to the passenger on flights under three hours.
PAXboy
8th Jun 2012, 13:55
Agreed. If my seat was blocked, I would want to ensure that it was not deliberate.
When reclinging the seat fully, I usually recline 50% and give the person behind time to realise what is happening. After a couple of minutes, I slowly push the seat fully back.
jayteeto
8th Jun 2012, 14:57
There is so little room these days, reclining is antisocial. My long legs usually just fit and reclining actually hurts my knees. Just keep accidentally 'bashing' the seat back until they move it forward. My one year old daughter sat on my knee helps as well.:ok:
One lady recently got a right strop on about my girl (who was behaving perfectly, reading a book/not crying) and we ended up having words. Other pax actually got involved, backing me up, saying how well she was acting. She was insisting on a recline, which was impossible!! I suppose I could have placed her in an overhead locker. :mad:
The other solution to leg room/seat reclining is something like the 787 seats. Where the seat back stays put and your butt slides forward to perform the recline.
I know this won't make tall (long legged) people happy. Leg room isn't a problem for me (I'm only 4 feet, 18 inches tall) but I don't like a seat back in my face. Want to make me happy? Give me more shoulder room.
eastern wiseguy
8th Jun 2012, 22:23
downright claustrophobic having the seat in front inches from your face Agree totally. This also leads to an extreme degree of difficulty trying to clamber out to use the loo!! As for getting back in.......
Chuchinchow
11th Jun 2012, 11:38
I know this won't make tall (long legged) people happy. Leg room isn't a problem for me (I'm only 4 feet, 18 inches tall) but I don't like a seat back in my face. Want to make me happy? Give me more shoulder room.
Are you trying to tell us that you are 5 feet 6 inches tall, that you are four feet tall, or that you are eighteen inches tall?
Mark in CA
11th Jun 2012, 15:14
Maybe he has four feet and is 18 inches tall (i.e., a dog). ;)
radeng
11th Jun 2012, 15:41
I did once see a woman refuse to take the seat out of recline while the meal was served. The guy behind managed to extract himself while holding a glass of red wine: he was SO apologetic when he 'accidentally' poured it over her but did point out that if she hadn't kept the seat reclined, it wouldn't have happened.
Then, to add insult to injury, he beat her to the washroom and stayed in there for ten minutes!
I did think it served her right.......even if it was originally a white blouse and very light coloured skirt. Her language was not very ladylike, either. I did wonder about complaining to the CC about it, but decided perhaps it was better not to....
TightSlot
11th Jun 2012, 20:22
Never travel in white clothes, never, never, never - Turns you into a stain magnet.
P.s. - Off on me hols folks, back in a week. You'll be in the capable hands of strangers for a while - Scary!
radeng
12th Jun 2012, 11:40
TightSlot
Have a good holiday!
PAXboy
12th Jun 2012, 12:57
[peeking above the parapet]
Has he gone yet? :E
Do you wanna play? ;)
Anansis
14th Jun 2012, 01:55
[peeking above the parapet]
Has he gone yet? :E
Do you wanna play? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gifI dare you to write the naughty forbidden 'E' word! :E
Seriously though, this is an age old debate which has no right or wrong answer. I find that the best thing to do is to show a bit of consideration to people around you and to employ a bit of common sense. I tend to avoid reclining my seat unless I'm tired and need to rest (i.e. I don't recline it just because I can). Short haul I tend not to bother. Long haul, I always put my seat back fully up during meal times and would never recline until the empty trays have been collected. Cabin crew are usually good at asking passengers to do this anyway. If somebody in front of me reclines before trays are collected, I politely ask them to put it forward until the meal service is finished. People are usually happy to oblige.
If somebody feels the need to recline their seat (apart from at mealtimes) they should not feel guilty for doing so- the person behind can always recline their seat if they want more space. A reclining seat is part of the service they've paid for. If seat pitches are so small that this impacts on the comfort of other passengers then this is an issue they should take up with the airline, not the passenger doing the reclining (I say this both as a 'recliner' and as a 'reclinee'). It's easy to check these stats, and if people started voting with their feet then airlines would soon sit up and take notice.
Of course, if somebody behind me is exceptionally tall I am happy to communicate and compromise. If they start kicking my back I'll be tempted to keep it reclined as much as possible...
Chuchinchow
15th Jun 2012, 22:52
If somebody feels the need to recline their seat (apart from at mealtimes) they should not feel guilty for doing so- the person behind can always recline their seat if they want more space. A reclining seat is part of the service they've paid for.
And what about the poor pax sitting right at the back? His/her seat won't recline at all! :\
750XL
16th Jun 2012, 01:40
When I flew on Saudi a few months ago the seats reclined that much that when the bloke in front of me reclined his fully I couldn't even see my PTV :=
This thread raises a question: I regularly travel on the TGV where the seats also recline (power operated too !) but the seat back ahead of me never enters my space when the occupant reclines it. What's the difference to airline seats ?
BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES
16th Jun 2012, 18:29
A TGV seat is not legally required to protect the occupant during a 16G impact.
farci
17th Jun 2012, 07:57
This thread raises a question: I regularly travel on the TGV where the seats also recline (power operated too !) but the seat back ahead of me never enters my space when the occupant reclines it. What's the difference to airline seats ?
I believe the seat part moves forward..
PAXboy
17th Jun 2012, 15:24
Thread drift
Of the TGV, it would be interesting to know what the unreclined seat pitch is and what their legel 'g' impact requirements are!
and what their legel 'g' impact requirements are!
According to their literature the double-decker TGV Sud can cruise at 320kph. And on my frequent trips, yes, the thought of crash protection for passengers does occur to me......
PAXboy
18th Jun 2012, 01:40
More thread drift
If the French authorities require lower pax G protection on the TGV than for air travel (adjusted for actual spped etc) then there is a significant advantage for the train operators.
So - what about the Shinkansen and the Spanish AVE??
Is there a rail equivalent to ICAO? I've never heard of one. The vast majority of rail travel is domestic so I suspect that there are no international standards for rail.
But since the manufacturers are few, I would imagine that a train built by bombardier foe Switzerland,mis going to be built to the same standard as one built for Germany.