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rgbrock1
6th Jun 2012, 14:29
Today is the 68th anniversary of the Allied invasion of France via Normandy. Perhaps a moment of reflection in one's busy day is called for.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/120606121335-d-day-01-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg

corsair
6th Jun 2012, 14:49
In a reprise of history the weather would be suitable today. But due to turn bad in the next couple of days.

Would like to visit the landing beaches one day. The closest I've got was to overly Omaha beach at 2000 feet once close to the anniversary.

Tableview
6th Jun 2012, 14:51
Thank you for that. I've been to that area and the beaches. It's quite eerie.

Today also happens to be my son's birthday.

rgbrock1
6th Jun 2012, 15:03
While I lived in Germany I did get a chance to visit Normandy.
I did so out of historical curiosity as well as the wish to visit the area where my uncle parachuted in with the 101st Airborne Division during the invasion. He survived and didn't speak all that often about the invasion though. I can very well understand why.

But, just as was written previously, my visit to Normandy evoked some rather eerie feelings.

We certainly owe a debt of gratitude to the men who undertook this invasion. I can't even imagine what they went through, although I myself have seen combat. But certainly not along the lines of D-Day.

charliegolf
6th Jun 2012, 15:14
Perhaps a moment of reflection in one's busy day is called for.



Agreed rgb, and done earlier. A quiet, private prayer. They are still allowed, aren't they?

CG

sitigeltfel
6th Jun 2012, 15:45
Francois Hollande becomes first French president to visit D-Day war graves - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/9314451/Francois-Hollande-becomes-first-French-president-to-visit-D-Day-war-graves.html)

Le président Hollande commémore le Débarquement - BFMTV (http://www.bfmtv.com/le-president-hollande-commemore-le-debarquement-actu28755.html)

I am really surprised by this, the first time in 68 years?

oldchina
6th Jun 2012, 17:22
Sarkozy didn't forget when he was president. An emotional thanks.

Vidéo Ina - Discours du président de la République française Nicolas Sarkozy, vidéo Discours du président de la République française Nicolas Sarkozy, vidéo - Archives vidéos : Ina.fr (http://www.ina.fr/video/3925319002/discours-du-president-de-la-republique-francaise-nicolas-sarkozy.fr.html)

racedo
6th Jun 2012, 19:41
Visited there over weekend, read about it in Nostalgia.......;)

What was evident was there sheer number of Nationalities that were there with lots of Brits, Dutch, Americans as well as others. Brits and Dutch by number plates, Americans by uniform or accent particularly at US Memorial.

The sheer scale of it is immense and littlie really was in awe about the fact that 68 years after it the Mulberry Harbours still exist in many parts, on a better weather weekend we will do some exploring close to shore.

A comment by the guide at the US Memorial relating to where Father and Son buried was that wife / mother wanted them buried where they would be remembered forever. Little does she realise that her wish will come through forever.

racedo
6th Jun 2012, 19:45
Chirac was there in 2004 as the veteran named knows.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Chirac gives lift to D-Day vet (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3787777.stm)

Airborne Aircrew
6th Jun 2012, 20:06
Good to see Barry is staying away... Some fundraiser or other...

Roll on November...

To those who lived through D-Day and those that didn't... Deepest respect and gratitude.

stuckgear
6th Jun 2012, 20:14
we so often forget the sacrifices our fathers, grandfathers, uncles made, may we never forget and pass the memories to our children that they will never be forgotten, nor their sacrifices.

kwateow
6th Jun 2012, 21:16
I sincerely hope my memory or eyesight is failing me, for I saw nothing of this on the BBC news website this morning. It must be well hidden.

'Lest we Forget' indeed: tv celebrities are apparently more important.

C130 Techie
6th Jun 2012, 21:35
Another very significant event in 'modern' history for which we owe an enormous debt of gratitude to those who took part, many of whom made the ultimate sacrifice.

I wonder if the media have cottoned on to the fact that had D Day failed and Hitler prevailed in 1944 then the Silver/Golden/Diamond Jubilees, wonderful occasions though they were/are would have been just a fantasy. it's sad that they seem to have forgotten. Thankfully many, including those I serve alongside today, have not.

As a reader of much about the 2 World Wars I am always humbled by the degree of sacrifice made by our ancestors in the name of freedom.

Often my question is could we do it again today if it came to it. Personally I doubt it.

Airborne Aircrew
6th Jun 2012, 21:44
Often my question is could we do it again today if it came to it. Personally I doubt it.

I think you are right at one level and utterly wrong on another.

We still produce fantastic fighting men and women who would do no less that those who went ashore in 1944 did.

It's the political arseholes who no longer have the gonads....

C130 Techie
6th Jun 2012, 22:00
AA

Being serving military I wholeheartedly agree.

In respect to the courage and dedication of our respective Armed Forces there is no question.

As to our political 'masters' and therefore the 'will/support' of the general population (what about the prospect of compulsory conscription?) I have serious doubts.

I would like to think I am wrong, however looking at recent history, not so sure.

TZ350
6th Jun 2012, 22:14
[quote] C130 Techie
As a reader of much about the 2 World Wars I am always humbled by the degree of sacrifice made by our ancestors in the name of freedom. [quote

Sadly. those hard won freedoms are being trampled on by the politico scum and the PC huggy fluffie brigade. :mad::mad::mad:

Tankertrashnav
6th Jun 2012, 22:46
As to our political 'masters' and therefore the 'will/support' of the general population (what about the prospect of compulsory conscription?) I have serious doubts.




Dont forget that up to the late 1930's there was little stomach for a fight among the British "ruling classes" if we may describe them as such. Chamberlain was so scarred by his experience in WW1 that he saw it as his duty to prevent another war if it all possible. One of the big "ifs" in history is if Halifax had replaced him PM instead of Churchill would he have gone for a ceasefire as Hitler always assumed Britain would? We shall never know, of course, but there was a very strong move for appeasement which went right to the highest levels of society. Similarly it took Pearl Harbor to finally "wake a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve" Up to then there was serious opposition to any US involvement - thank god for Churchill and FDR (with apologies to the republican majority on here ;)).

critter592
6th Jun 2012, 23:16
I certainly did spare a moment of reflection.

At circa H-Hour, I raised a glass in a toast to those who took part, and especially to those who did not return.

Thank you, chaps.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
7th Jun 2012, 00:53
I recommend a visit for those who haven't been. A friend and I decided after dinner on the 5th to drive down for the 60th Anniversary. A ferry at 0-stupid-30 and a fast drive saw us having lunch in the Gondree Cafe by Pegasus Bridge, with a fine crowd of veterans. My grand-Uncle didn't land until 25th June 1944, being a Guardsman, but then was continually in action before being KIA on the approach to the Rhine in Feb 1945.
We owe them a lot.

Airborne Aircrew
7th Jun 2012, 01:40
We owe them a lot.

... and then a little bit more...

http://www.hqrafregiment.net/images/smilies/salute.gifhttp://www.hqrafregiment.net/images/smilies/salute.gifhttp://www.hqrafregiment.net/images/smilies/salute.gif

finfly1
7th Jun 2012, 02:07
As to what would happen today, having flown over the ABE [Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton, Penna] area in the US and having seen the miles of empty railroad sidings, empty parking lots and smokeless smokestacks in row after row, it is difficult to imagine the US today producing seventeen bombers in a single day.

Matari
7th Jun 2012, 03:40
Always worth the 15 mins or so.....

eEIqdcHbc8I

reynoldsno1
7th Jun 2012, 03:53
My Dad died, symbolically,on 6 Jun 1987. He was evacuated from France via Brest in 1940,and awarded the Croix de Guerre for his deeds in a skirmish with German paratroopers near Avizes. His brother was killed in a Mosquito on the Cherbourg peninsular in Aug 1944 a few days after receiving the bar to his DFC. I never met him, but feel I knew him. He rests in the War Cemetery at Bayeux.

Never forgotten - each and everyone

rgbrock1
7th Jun 2012, 12:48
C130 Techie wrote:

Often my question is could we do it again today if it came to it. Personally I doubt it.I like your name there C130. I'm very familiar with the aircraft as I spent lots and lots of time jumping out the back of them!!!!!

Would we do it again today? Yes. And we are. There are a lot of sacrifices being given in Iraq and Afghanistan. And not just by Americans. Although the numbers of those sacrificed now are nowhere near what they were back then, even one sacrifice of a human for his or her country is enough, no?

what about the prospect of compulsory conscription?)

Yes, and no.

No in that having compulsory conscription, or the draft as we call it, would somewhat diminish the professionalism of our military forces.

Yes in that it might do some good for the snot-nosed, clueless and lazy bums that one often observes these days, better known as The Youth. Might give them something constructive to do, instead of worrying about who will win American Idol this year.

airship
7th Jun 2012, 13:35
If you were a 20 year old on 06/06/1944, engaged in WWII, then you'd be 88 years old (+ 1 day older) today, the 07/06/2012...

reynoldsno1 wrote: My Dad died, symbolically,on 6 Jun 1987. He was evacuated from France via Brest in 1940,and awarded the Croix de Guerre for his deeds in a skirmish with German paratroopers near Avizes. His brother was killed in a Mosquito on the Cherbourg peninsular in Aug 1944 a few days after receiving the bar to his DFC. I never met him, but feel I knew him. He rests in the War Cemetery at Bayeux.

Never forgotten - each and everyone

I very much doubt that our present (or previous) generations, governments and politicians etc., have ever truly recognised the sacrifices made back then. Conveniently so, those who were involved in that ultimate combat of good vs. evil, are fast-disappearing as I write (whether you're the US government, or any other EU government). And their rights to certain additional pension entitlements etc., which were often never paid will eventually (and rapidly) fall into oblivion.

Welcome to 2012... :\

rgbrock1
7th Jun 2012, 15:34
airship wrote:

I very much doubt that our present (or previous) generations, governments and politicians etc., have ever truly recognised the sacrifices made back then

I think for those of us who have been at the receiving end of hostilities, it is quite easy to recognize the sacrifices made back then.

C130 Techie
7th Jun 2012, 18:59
RGB

Thanks, 23 of my 35 years in the RAF have been associated with the C130 in one way or another. Wonderful aircraft. Never jumped out of one though.

I agree that we are doing much today and that every sacrifice is painful to see. Being based where I am I see this at first hand in the all to regular repatriations.

My question of 'could we' is based on the scale and the prospect of all out war again. We have our respective highly professional volunteer forces How would we fare trying to bolster them with (unwilling) conscripts if it came to it? Indeed is there even a current or future scenario where this could be contemplated.

tony draper
8th Jun 2012, 11:22
Some good photographs here.
Before and After D-Day: Rare Color Photos From England and France, 1944 - LIFE (http://life.time.com/history/d-day-rare-color-photos/?iid=lb-gal-viewagn#1)

radeng
8th Jun 2012, 13:09
But do we have the military/industrial complex needed to support an all out war? We had a lot more military/industrial capability in 1982 than we do today, and the Falklands stretched that. As did the first Gulf War, when there was a shortage of IFF sets. I know that, as I was sent to the US to help sort out a problem with some integrated circuits used in them.

SASless
8th Jun 2012, 13:18
Rad,

There is always Lend Lease....except you would have to pawn the Crown Jewels as there is not much else left we would take as collateral.

DC10RealMan
8th Jun 2012, 13:25
Ladies and Gentlemen.

We hear a lot about the "Youth of Today" and their many problems.

I am an Instructor with my local Air Cadet squadron and the teenagers there are no different from their grandfathers and great grandfathers and given the circumstances would do exactly the same thing again.

I consider it a privilege to be associated with them and I thank God for such fine and upstanding individuals.