SunExpress Recruitment

[flash48]

SunExpress is expending its fleet with Anadolujet aircrafts in Turkey. Up to now they have taken already nine of them and still they will get other eight aircrafts.
They are recruiting expat captains every month in Istanbul for new Anatolian bases.

[aozc]

Yes I'm currently doing a type rating there. A great company, they are looking for expat captains and local FOs (you need to be a citizen)

[caulfield]

SunExpress a great company?Are you off the wagon?

[aozc]

That's the impression of mine and many of the people I know working there. Even though there are plenty of wagons pulled around by animals in Turkey i prefer not to ride 'em :E

[Boeing Europe]

Does anyone know if there is a chance at all they will take expat Fo's???????? 737NG rated 900 on type ready to go??

[aozc]

They look for fresh FOs exclusively unless you are ex turkish military.

[jizzman]

Is there a way to get in contact with them, I applied 2 months ago but no answer. Looking for the job as a FO with no experience. Are they still hiring even if you are not a turkish citizen with no experience?

[aozc]

No they don't and probably won't for a while either. They usually don't answer if they're not interested because the number of applications is enormous.

[Akrep]

Turkey is closed for foreign F/O's.
All Turkish carriers now hire only Turkish nationals for their F/O positions.

[B737Dude]

aozc & Akrep,

Did you guys do your TOEFL test in Turkey? and does sxs arrange it for you or do you have to take the test and then apply for the FO position?

Cheers

[aozc]

They first ask for your CV, after that they send you a mail asking for some documents. That's where you have to pass a mollymawk and a TOEFL/TOEIC on your own and then hand it in and wait for an interview if all other documents are in order.

[B737Dude]

Thats brillant! Cheers for that! Is SXS still recruiting for local FO's?

[sunjet1]

Has anybody experiences in screening or Interview at sunex ??! I hear somethink about DA42 sim in istanbul. How ist the interview and where?! Is it held in a Hotel or where??! Because the homebase is still in Antalya (new building).

[B737Dude]

I've just seen on Pilots jobs network that SXS is no longer hiring Ab-intros.. How true is that?

[aozc]

They don't seem to have the ab-initio collaboration with Stella anymore but rumours are going online that they will collaborate with another school later.

[Avenger]

The last Stella intake were lucky in the timing, the DGCA now requires non-Turkish FOs to have minimum 1500TT..this will exclude the majority of applicants for new FO positions, other than Turkish candidates.

[jizzman]

Is that true with the DGCA and 1500 TT for non-turkish FO positions? I heard some non-turkish FO do get jobs in Turkey with less than 1500 TT.

[aozc]

I think there's some kind of a quote of how many but that's only what I've heard on the "street", I do not know if there's any truth to that.

[sunturk1]

According to the new rules on the Turkish CAA website, the 1500TT requirement is only applicable to ICAO licence holders. For EASA or JAA license holders there is no minimum requirement. Furthermore the licence validation which all foreign licence holders have to get, will also not be applicable anymore to EASA or JAA holders. The company that you will work for just has to get a document called 'yetki belgesi' which is valid for the duration of your employment.
Regards

[KYTV]

He sunturk,
where does it say on the website?
Thanks in advance

[sunturk1]

http://web.shgm.gov.tr/doc4/ypg.pdf

[joflin]

Rumor says Sunday mornings' ground incident at Sweden's major international airport involved two B737ng-aircrafts taxiing into each other, approaching gates after arrival.

link in Swedish language, but with picture;
Plan i krock på Arlanda | Nyheter | Expressen | Senaste nytt - Nyheter Sport Ekonomi Nöje (http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/plan-i-krock-pa-arlanda/?print=true)

Risk of winglets !, although this nordic country isn't so cramped that space separation between the two turks should be a factor ?

[Kirks gusset]

Unfortunately commercial pressures mean Sun Express is changing for the worse...with the inclusion of the Anadolu operations crews are working many 4 sector domestic flights and by winter the Istanbul base will be mainly domestic with the international flights routing through Izmir. The Company offers new starters bases in Eastern Turkey with no International connections. Do the research before joining, many crews are totally exhausted and you will fly 1000hrs a year as a Captain with early starts after days off and no chance to commute unless you take the new bases supporting the Anadolu Jet ops. The up side is training is good and the people are great to work with.

[aozc]

Joflin, they followed the wrong taxiway to the gate according to the article. I hope they can repair it quickly. That's a very unfortunate way to begin the summer season.

Kirk, from what I've heard, on some of the eastern bases there will both AnadoluJet and SunExpress operations for the pilots so maybe we will see destinations outside of Turkey :E. I'm not sure though.

[wingbar]

Hi,

Is it true that only Local F/o's will be taken on?
I filled out their on-line app some weeks ago, I received the 'standard' email saying this would be considered etc etc.
However, today I have gone in to check my application with my log in, only to find out, that all data has been wiped off!

Can anybody shed any light on this?

[LVL_CHG]

Just checked and all my info has been wiped as well!

[aozc]

For a year or so, only low-timer or military turkish citizens has been called for interview. Some collaborations with ab-initio schools in Europe has taken place where foreign candidates have been called as well but there are none at the moment according to what I have heard or seen. However there might be collaborations in the future again.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Does that include captains as well?

[despegue]

How long is the waiting time for a non commuting DEC to be based in Antalya?
I am willing to move, but my wife's condition is base Antalya.

Do you get ID90 in Business with TK and LH? We do want to see the world...

Thanks,

D.

[DutchExpat]

Antalya will be a very long time if ever most likely. If you want to see the world that's going to be a bit of a problem with 20 days off a year that you cannot take in one go and in average month you get 4 days if lucky to go somewhere Oh yeah no holidays in first year and only far away bases on offer now No IST AYT IZMIR or even Ankara

[aozc]

No_Speed_Restriction: No, they are still hiring expat DEC even if not rated on type. However you will most likely be based in eastern Turkey.

Despegue, you get LH ID after 6 months and TK after 12 months. However as DE told you. The leave is limiting.

[Kirks gusset]

Dutch Expat is right, average 7 days off a month 2.1.2.1.1 but you can " request" a triple off, maybe you will start on an early 02.20 GMT after the day off and under Turkish regs a day off starts up to 12 GMT ( 3 am local) now! no JAR FTLS there.
Forget DEC at AYT, no chance only Eastern Turkey. Also, Turkey will not be EASA compliant by 2014.
If you make a life in Turkey, forget commuting etc it is a good company to be with.

[KYTV]

So can anyone tell me for sure now if the 1500 hours tt rule is for all foreign fo or only for non- JAA licences. Sunturk1 in this forum has previously said that it only applies to ICAO licences. The way I interpret the rule as noted on the website if the Turkish DGCA then I would say the same. Can anyone shed more light on this? Thanks.

[Boeing Europe]

Hi
900 hours as fo on the NG any chamce of being taken on as FO I heard they only take low time local will they recruit expat FO's with time on type etc just short of 1500TT

[Boeing Europe]

My application is still there , has not been wiped maybe a good sign

[Kirks gusset]

Even type rated FOs are charged 30Euro in advance, there are a couple of English Licence Holders that have made it through selection, having said that, the last two " English Licence holders" where, infact Dutch! both low hours. Pegasus has got shot of all the non-Turkish FOs now but SXS still retains them, some even got upgraded after meetimg the requirements of 5 years post CPL issue and 4500 hrs.

[B737Dude]

Does anyone know if Pegasus Airlines keeps its Turkish F/O's after there 100 hour line-training?

Cheers

[Akrep]

Depends on 1: if they need you
2: if they like you / your performance.

[Kirks gusset]

Pegasus has got rıd of most of the forıegn FOs and are not hırıng any. SXS ıs lookıng for low tıme guys only but they may be ınterested for a remote eastern base, typed or not you have to pay 30K euro up front as an FO for the traınıng. Just rıng them up and ask the questıon dırectly but you need to pass the selectıon tests before they wıll ıntervıew you. If you are over 33 then forget ıt as an FO.

[Ronand]

You are flying for RAM by any chance?

[Kirks gusset]

I know they fılter out tıme wıth certaın aırlınes as they have to vaıldate all the hours whıch means often ıt ıs easıer to take low hours guys dırectly from flıght academy. For FOs they prefer tıme buılt ın Europe, good luck

[B737Dude]

I have a mollymawk test coming up.. Where can I practice and how hard is it compared to the DLR test?

Cheers

[Akrep]

the only way to practice is to buy the package from the molly website and use the 8 practice sessions you get.

compared to the DLR, mollymawk is in my opinion easier.

good luck with the test.

[B737Dude]

Did you do the test all in one sitting or split it up in two separate sittings? also thats the TOEFL test like?

Cheers

[aozc]

Dont worry. Do your best it should not be a problem. Its much more easier than the DLR. Do them both as quıckly as possible while they are still recruiting.

[Boeing Europe]

I have no experience of DLR or Mollymawk what kind of tests are they anything like the compass test...?

[B737Dude]

Just paid for the two mollymawk packages.. Doesn't give you alot of chances to practice! how many weeks is a reasonable time to prepare for the test?

Cheers

[aozc]

A few days is enough. The real test and the practice tests are pretty much the same.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

What's the general consensus about having to pass these types of tests in order to get in with an airline? What happened to the good 'ole days of a one to one interview and a sim check? Too many to interview perhaps.........:{

[B737Dude]

Aozc your a ledge buddy! I owe you a drink(s) when I'm down in Antalya :ok:

[fade to grey]

Having seen the T+Cs , unfortunately it would appear the commuting option will make it tricky to have a life.

7 day block off, so in reality 5 at home after positioning and no leave at all in commuting. 60 days a year at home.

It would probably be a great job if you are Turkish or single.

[aozc]

FTG, that is the normal conception. It's very commuting unfriendly. If you can relocate it's a great place to work at. I don't know how the rosters will look at the new bases though.

[Kirks gusset]

The eastern bases are all to support the Anadolu Jet operations, expect 5 on 1 off and 4 sectors. The normal flight time for Captains is 1000 hrs/year and the 75% roster ( with 75% pay) will allow about 720 hrs a year. You cannot add scheduled days off to the start of the commuting period to increase it to 8 days or at the end. Normally the 4 legs start early and you will need to be back the day before the duty cycle. Approc 20 hrs week flight time ( about 20 sectors). To commute you will have to position first to a main base unless you are ESB based, some flights to Europe from there with other airlines.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

What's the 75% roster pattern like? Is it offered to new DEC's?

[Kirks gusset]

? This is what the discussion is about ...DEC are only at Eastern bases and the 75% roster pattern can only be requested at these bases. Previous posts cover all the points..

[fade to grey]

That's not what I was told - DEC for ankara was on the cards.No mention of 75 % roster availability

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Can anyone who's been to an actual recent interview relay what was/is involved? What sim was used and what scenarios were given?

Thanks

[aozc]

fo or cpt?

[No_Speed_Restriction]

DEC (non type rated) :ok:

[aozc]

Raw data, FD AP AT off.
One Ils at Hannover, GA, one NDB. Sometimes the NDB is first somtimes the ILS is.

Usually they do an engine failure after Vr just to see your handling of the aircraft. They expect very little procedural knowledge of the 737 unless rated but they want to see how you handle the aircraft. Pretty simple and straight forward.
On the 737: Just use aileron initially, and then level the yoke with rudders ("step on horn down") och don't let the attitude fall below 10 degrees and not above 15 deg initially, maintain rwy track and the rest should sort itself out :E

[Kirks gusset]

Use Rudder initially.. not aileron please! use track line to keep RW heading or at least be seen to be making sensible HDG requests from PM.

You will get RAW data departure to first point of SID then vectors for ILS. The FO will be an experienced person and be very helpful. Time permitting you may get a NP approach to watch your tracking and thought process for configuration.
Target pitch for normal rotation is 15 degrees and 13 degrees SE.
You will get a briefing pack, the sim check which will last about 25 mins.
It is not a chopping exercise and is straight forward. What they don't want to see is over-controlling, jumping ahead on checklists and rushed attitudes, keep it simple.
FTG.. yes ESB base is now 100% roster as most of the Anadolu flights go through there but at the moment crews from SAW/ABD/AYT do a layover in ESB to help out.

[aozc]

I just do as my hoca says :E

[Kirks gusset]

Tut Tut! your HOCA speaks with fork tongue:

SXS FCTM 3.11.2 Refers:

Engine Failure Recognition

"The airplane heading is the best indicator of the correct rudder input. To counter the thrust asymmetry due to engine failure stop the yaw with rudder. Flying with lateral control wheel displacement or excessive aileron trim causes the flight spoilers to be raised"

3.11.3

"If an engine fails bewteen V1 and lift off, maintain directional control by smoothly applying rudder proportional to thrust decay"

iyi günler arkadaş

[Boeing Europe]

Has anyone recently been caled to interview with SXS I applied online many months ago heard nothing :( anyone have an e-mail or phone number to get in touch with them...?>

[Kirks gusset]

Interviews are on-going for Captains. Only Turkish FOs are being recruited at the moment.

[brostovsky]

No speed restriction good evening! Erev tov!!!
I was just wondering if you fly in Israel or you actually live somewhere else. I fly a Falcon 900EX in US, and would like to explore my options in Israel in the future. My e-mail address is [email protected]
Thank a lot!

[B737Dude]

Does anyone have any experience with the Interview? how long does it take? what kind of questions are asked during the interview?

Cheers

[flash48]

I heard that SunExpress will recruit still 20 captains and 30 local f/o's but not foreign f/o's.
And they have huge number of application from everywhere. what a chance not to be a Turkish now :(

[Kirks gusset]

About 10 Captains in training/ conversion now and about 10 new Turkish FOs just released to line, some more Turkish FOs in training at various bases. Recruitment will slow down now until early next year now.

[KYTV]

I'll tell you what sucks, being hired by Sunexpress Germany and then not to be Turkish. Anyone know what their situation is? Seem to be scaling down a bit. Will they come back at full strength in the spring? And what is with this Turkish 1500 hour rule? Any chance this will go soon:bored:

[aozc]

With the growing amount of jobless turkish pilots I think it will be enforced more strictly.

It seems like more and more SXD flights are being done by SXS. There were some operational issues with SXD.

[Chief Pilot]

Hey guys!

Can somebody give me some information about the Screening?
I've read your comments above. But do they still do the Screening on the B737?

I've read something about Screening on an FNPT - not B737. Is there anybody who can confirm that?

Does SXS provide information about the screening or will they just surprise me in the Sim?

[aozc]

FO or CPT?

For CPTs it's usually a 737NG sim. Departure Hannover, basic airwork, one NPapp one precision app. Sometimes they do a simple engine failure after V1. Everything is very straight forward, they just look at your handling and CRM.

[Chief Pilot]

I am an inexperienced FO candidate.

Do you know what I can expect?

Sim Type?
Procedure?
...?

[TypeIV]

Also expect a VOR approach and a holding over CEK.

If you are 32 years old, I think you have to be from the Turkish military to be accepted.

[Chief Pilot]

Actually I am not 32. :) I am younger and of course I am not from military.
I have just set a random date of birth. :cool::cool:

Nevertheless I thank you for the information!

[B737Dude]

I also got a hold from IST at 16D non standard turn! First you do a ILS, missed approach, engine failure and vectors for the VOR for runway 05! Or a circle to land! Also it's done on the DA42! And before I forget.. I was asked to do a fix to fix!

[Chief Pilot]

Then I'll do my best. Holding at 16 miles sounds interesting. Was it a published holding? Or did the instructor give you just a radial and distance for holding?
Do you know what aerodromes are used besides IST?

By the way: What do you mean by "fix to fix"? Never heard about it. :confused:

[Chief Pilot]

Is this DA42 in that flight school equipped with a glass cockpit?
Or does it just have conventional instruments/"clocks"?

[Akrep]

Garmin G1000

[B737Dude]

It was a non published hold set by the instructor! He gave me a radial and distance from IST!

Yep fix to fix.. something that the Turkish military guys are familiar with! briefly.. Your on the 180 radial and your 44D from a nav aid! and the controller wants you to establish on the 270 radial to a waypoint which is 37D from the fix! so you work out a heading to establish on 270R ect ect!

If I'm wrong please correct me guys!! :ok:

[Akrep]

thats called point to point and not only the military guys are familiar with it ;)

[B737Dude]

Argh okey I'm sorry :-) I was told its called fix to fix!

[caulfield]

the following about this airline before applying:
a)Pay is poor
b)Base is on syrian border
c)Salary is paid into Turkish bank only..the bank card issued only works in Turkey.
d)Turkish training captains are an absolute nightmare to work with.They are known to shout and throw tantrums.They might even tell you to pull back on the stick at Vr.You can have 9000 hrs on type or be new to type,it matters not.Simply put,theyre rude.And if you're rude back like me,thats it.
e)SOP's are complex,intrusive and counter-intuitive.Not simple.The SOP for EFATO is not correct and illegal as theres no call verifying a "clean" a/c.If you have thousands of hours of experience on type you would find it hard to go along with them as theyre OTT and counter-intuitive.WHICH IS WHY THEY WANT NON TYPE-RATED guys.Just like ryanair in fact.Funny that isnt it?An airline not wanting experienced pilots but rather inexperienced guys who they can brainwash.
f)Standard of English is poor,well below min required Id say for training.They like Germans but nobody else that much.
g)Selection is a joke.Youd think you were being hired for NASA with all the tests not some 3rd rate little airline.They think theyre a great airline which they most certainly are not!

I say beware if youre experienced on type and like good flying with simple clear Boeing SOP's that dont try and tell you which hand to use when taking a piss.

[Iver]

Sounds like a wonderful cultural experience! :}:p:yuk:

But you will at least spend half your time in Europe (flying to and from Turkey). You will gain 737NG experience that will be valuable to other carriers (the Gulf carriers will accept it). Like many LCC carriers these days, sounds like an investment in your long-term career if you go to SunExpress.

Question: excluding the potential for Syrian bombs, how would it compare to flying like a slave at Ryanair, Eazy, Vuelling or for Lionair in Asia in terms of gaining "valued" experience?????? :confused:

[No RYR for me]

Out of interest Caulfield is there any airline that meets your standard?:

About the Belgiums:
well the belgians
are an acquired taste.The problem is they think theyre the only ones who can fly.I passed their poxy little selection and turned them down.Arrogant SOB's.Besides they dont want pilots..they want stepford automatons.

About the Chinese:
The people are okay.But its communist and they eat dogs and ****.

About the Brits
Not one good airline left in Britain!Not one!

So what is your solution to the guys out there trying to make a living? Go back in time to the good old days when everything was better? :}

[Chief Pilot]

caulfield,

you missed two points!

On top of all that sh... you'll have to pay TWO type ratings before entering the rating course. Too much money - for that money you get even 3 type ratings at cheap Sim-centers.

And you have not mentioned the salary during the first months. There is no salary...

That airline is a total night mare.

[TypeIV]

They pay the type rating and you get paid in full from day one if you ask for it. If you don't, well then they don't :8

[Chief Pilot]

TypeIV
If I had not talked to them personally I would have believed you.

I have passed that screening during the last days.
Now I am waiting for the last step but I really think about quitting that whole SXS thing. It is disgusting!

When I asked if they pay the rating, they said NO.
Payment: NO during line. Thereafter a payment which is below the standard in TR.
And you will not get the chance to stay in IST or AYT or even Izmir...
Probably G.Antep, Ankara or Diyarbakir
I have talked to the SXS people personally!

I really hope they were kidding.

[Avenger]

Ill informed and wide of the mark...The retention rate amongst pilots is extremely high, nothing to do with the bonding in the contracts but the low cost of living and tax regime in Turkey, meaning most FOs are getting more than they would in Europe " clean" I'm not comparing with any tax avoidance scams like RYR etc. The employment chances for guys to remain in Europe are low, let's not bullish*t about this, they are VERY LOW. With re-organisations at SXS bases many SXS Yabanci FOs have been place directly with THY mainline on the 737, even though some didn't meet the criteria, they will enter as senior FO and will net 6000 Euro a month, probably the best paid FO job around with chances to go on wide body in a few years. At SXS The "type rating" cost of 30K euro also include all the OCC course and all the line training, usually new FOs are trained away from main base and they get Hotac and per diems from day 1. The roster pattern and triple off request mean guys can visit home if they choose. In 2010 and 2011 SXS took FOs from Stella their average debt was nearly 100K Euro, and they were happy to get the job! Regarding Turkish Trainers being complete jerks, I couldn't disagree more, but of course, if you turn up in jeans and flip flops for ground school or don't revise for line training, well.. take a long look at yourself first! There are 16 new FOs starting Jan and 10 Captains, of course if you don't want to integrate into the Turkish culture or are not prepared to work hard you should perhaps consider some of the other options that turn up. Incidently, most of the flight standards operation is European, not Turkish..:rolleyes:

[KYTV]

So what is happening with SXD then? Did THY take any people from this part of the company?
Furthermore, are THY expecting to take more people from SXS/SXD?

[B737NG]

SXD is diffrent. THY can take people from SXS if they want. SXD is sending some Pilots to SXS over the Winter to reduce expenses and nothing else.

The good climate in SXD is fading away, SOP´s are straight forward.

Caulfield To get along with anybody else I would suggest the following: If you take any Job abroad You are Guest in a environment that is not your own. Behaive and look, I have never came accross a Instructor who shoutet at me. It is how You appear, try to fit in, try to accept another culture, try to be tolerant. In most cases that paves you a way to survive. You do not have to bend over, in no way.

If You at least try and listen you have a easier day then if you think you can implement your way of thinking there, a drip in the ocean effect is all what happens. You loose a gallon of efforts, what is a gallon in the Ocean?, go with the flow, try, just try and your life is easier or stay at home and don´t poison the climate for others.

Working abroad can be a nice expirience or a must to pay the bills. It is not the Host´s problem that you are there, it is your own. I have good memories back during my time in Turkey, the relations between the people where good, we enjoyed to talk together, exchanged opions and talked about everyting and anything.

Everytime when we had to do with Administration and Authorities it became a nightmare. Even the Turks themselves struggle with all that comes out of Ankaras buerocrats. Your colleague is maybe in the same boat then you, try to understand him and share some of his burden and your way as a Yabanci is easier then you can imagine.

[MaxBlow]

Joker737, what are you smoking?
SXS used to be very good until the 76ers took over. From there on they managed to be what they are today.
Most of the good people left during that period flying in the middle East or in Europe.

B737NG, with an attitude like yours, you'll be the perfect co-joe for the hocams, oily stuff that is...

I rest my case.

[flash48]

Hi Caulfield,

You really do not know what Sunexpress is !
You must be one of they failed :)
Open your eyes, they are growing extremely with high potential as a low cost carrier. I know many people very happy in their company.:=

[AirofMistique]

Hi guys,

Has anybody recently had the mollymawk test?

Any help much appreciated!

[dondino]

Hey guys,

Applied few weeks ago trough the strange turkish website,still dont have reply from them...any infos about contacts and type of selection?I'm NTR 700 TT
Cheers

[TypeIV]

They will not hire non-turkish first officers. There are new regulations regarding how many non-turkish F/Os they can have and they are currently above that number and are terminating contracts as we speak.

[dondino]

Looking at their requirments, there is no citizenship any where required.......any more infos?

[Kirks gusset]

13 New Dutch FOs arrived, Really? , according to the DGCA rules regarding max 25% foreign FOs by July and 10% by Dec 2013 , and with foreign FOs being sent from AYT, ABD and SAW to THY I doubt this! ALL the new FOs are Turkish at the moment... approximately 40 in the "system" for conversion and training..

[Deverwey1986]

True in december some foreign were sent to THY. But I can assure you they are still hiring foreigners.

[TypeIV]

Then they must have gotten an exemption from the new regulations somehow. Or they just want to sell some typeratings for €30 000 and then kick the foreigners out when the summer season is over. :confused:

[Akrep]

I think the latter is applicable :(
Cause I have heared the same as dewey..and know 3 who will join personally. they ar getting a seasonal contract

[Deverwey1986]

Correct.

How is the cold city up north?

[Avenger]

Perhaps you will find that only type rated people will be taken on now in Turkey as the Turkish TRTOs are now outside of the EASA system, UK from last year, rest of Europe (EU) from April this year. Some non typed, non-Turkish guys are already going home from THY.

[TypeIV]

Yes this is going to cause alot of trouble :uhoh:

If one would transfer the license into a turkish one, I think the chances of reconverting it into an EASA-license and then finding a job in Europe will be very hard.

[Clandestino]

Until a couple days ago Storm McGinley was looking for non-type rated captains for 3 yr commuting contract with SunExpress, Ankara base. Eligible was anyone with JAA licence and more than 500 hrs command time on aeroplane above 28t MTOW. Now there is very similar advert on Sigma but now strictly for jet commanders and Q400 specifically excluded.

Could anyone please shed some light on this change of mind? Did any Q400 capt actually made it into B737 LHS while it was enough to merely hold command on 28t+ aeroplane, condition levers equipped or not?

[TypeIV]

Yes there are boat drivers that have gone directly into the LHS :E

[Kirks gusset]

Really? where? All the TP drivers that did not have Jet PIC time started as FOs for a period, some 6 months, some 12 months...

[TypeIV]

He has only flown TP earlier as PIC but went straight in as a captain on the LHS for SXS. More than that I cannot disclose, especially not a friend on a public forum :}

[Akrep]

the world is a small place.. I know who you are talking about :)

[binasco]

Is there anyone that can give me a point of contact with the recruitment team so I can send my application?
Unfortunatelly I could find only a Turkish application page.

Thanks.

[MaxBlow]

you'll find the contact of the hr person on ppjn

[Boeing Europe]

Locals only

[safelife]

Completely independent of SunExpress turkey!

[leveledoff 450]

:mad: ...gentleman....watch out at the 3 ladies at the interview....they are looking for hot drivers,....not pilots :D

[Magh3]

Guys if my memory is not misleading me, you are allowed to hold a 3rd country license (not third world) besides your easa license.

So this means you get a turkish license and you can still do your easa medical and profcheck beside that license, it will cost you money un the end but it is not impossible as some guys think...

Reference is part fcl i iam not mistaken

[Phenom100]

I've today received a response from Sun Express asking for copies of License, logbook etc, anyone else have the same........

[b737air]

"Dear Candidate,


We would like to thank you for your application to our company.

You can find the documents which you should prepare for FIRST OFFICER Position.

Best Regards


1. Your JAR ATPL licence (Required for authority)

2. Copy of Valid Medical Certificate

3. Copy of last 3 pages of the log book

4. SXS Pilot Cv with photo


Irmak YETGIN

Human Resources Specialist

SunExpress"

I got this also today. I am not sure what is all about? I am not sure if it is directed to shortlisted or to all of the applicants!?! I have to say that I am a low hour pilot without TR and living in Europe. As far as I know they want turkish F/O, not low timers outside of Turkey. Anyway I am gonna send them what they asked for.

[Clandestino]

I am not sure if it is directed to shortlisted or to all of the applicants!?! Just the shortlisted. Congratulations!

I have to say that I am a low hour pilot without TR and living in Europe. As far as I know they want turkish F/O, not low timers outside of Turkey.Welcome to the wonderful world of aviation, where requirements change weekly. You got the opportunity, now grab it.

Anyway I am gonna send them what they asked for.

Attaboy! :}

[de facto]

Good luck Phenom.:ok:

[fade to grey]

They are desperate I feel,
With the lowering of the weight requirements to dash 8,,,,

I was offered an interview last year, but the commuting option is rubbish as is the pay....thus why they can't get captains

[Captaintcas]

Indeed, currently the worst contract around, with 6000 euro for Captains:ugh::rolleyes: and only 7 days OFF each month:hmm:.

Salary needs to go up by at least 2000 euro and 10 days OFF to get even remotely interesting for any experienced B737 Captain.

[RVF750]

...that's 6000Euro AFTER tax and a guaranteed 7 day block off each month, not 7 days total.

Not that bad really.

[GA_flps1]

...that's 6000Euro AFTER tax and a guaranteed 7 day block off each month, not 7 days total.

Not that bad really.
No that is a target of 7 days, the few months that you get more than 7 days off is for the annual/quarter off-days that are mandatory. This is for the regular contract. Schooling for kids is at least €1300 a month per kid and you won't get any ID tickets with Turkish until after a year of employment.

For the commuting usually you get a very late flight the day before your block and a morning flight directly after. You are expected to deal with your vacinations, medicals, bureaucracy etc during your block off. Outside of the block off expect 6/1 rostering with minimum rest. Sick days are counted as off days.

The pay is pretty low considering the amount of work you do and the rostering is terrible. Other than that there are much worse places to be. Nice people, expanding company with a good economy giving somewhat of a security for the coming decade until the number of locals ready for upgrade catches up.

Be prepared for very hard work and a very limited social life :E

[Twin2040]

Thats tax in Turkey I guess .... Also getting email after email for 737 command, but yes !!!! Salary is rubbish

[Scott_T]

Does anyone have any contact details for sun express Germany? Please PM me thanks

[Kirks gusset]

Some nonsense here guys… the commuting contract from Ankara guarantees block off 7 days off plus the mandatory days as required by SHT ops, for this contract the basic salary is lower ( 6000) but with overtime payments on factored hours is still good for a commute contract around 8000 net. For the full time contracts the minimum days off are 7 a month, paired as 2/1 2/ 1,1 . The full time contract starts at 6300 plus overtime, around 9000 Euro net. Obviously as winter approaches the overtime will drop a lot.Once you fly past 80 hrs the factor kicks in..This summer I am told the average Full time Captain was about 9300 net and the average full time FO 5800 net. The seem to be able to recruit at the moment with about 60 crews in training and some 20 FOs in the upgrade process. The only really commutable option is Ankara, although we regularly see the guys on THY flights to Europe as standby PAS.. but THY rules state they have to have been in the company for a whole year to get THY tickets. LTH tickets are available from the start I believe. I am not aware of another contract paying the "Net amount" as high as the THY and SXS contracts, including medical cover and loss of licence plus crew transport., not to mention the group hotel discounts?

[joker737]

Okey maybe the pay is not as high it should be for a EXPERIENCED 737 Captain, But for most of the guys in Sunexpress its a great deal, Nearly all captains from Ankara base and now from SAW base come here non-type rated with hours from Dash 8 (YES DASH 8), Fokker 100 with only ILS gliding experience from German bankrupted companies struggling to find a job in Europe. Generally 97.9% are lovely people to fly with but when they start moaning about the poor system quality of the 737, FREE transportation and the 'LOW PAY' then it starts to wind me up! Its a great opportunity for them to build s**t loads of hours in a very short time in a sunny country with a very good pay and working conditions working for a considerably nice company.

I really enjoy going for layovers in Ankara (but not the open duties) but people really need to appreciate what they have been given on a plate! :ok:

[captplaystation]

Who is paying the TR for non-rated guys ? if it is the company, the new Capts should truly STFU, put 1000hr in the logbook, & spend their time refining & distributing their C.V. rather than complaining. If the candidates are paying ? well, you are bending over, so expect them to shove it up you.

"Time off allowing commuting" has traditionally been a sore point in Turkish companies (even THY ) I had 20 on 10 off in 2009 with Saga, and that (for a Turkish company ) was fairly exceptional.

For comparison to your 8000€ net, Norwegian pays 8884 + 17€/block hr for Capts "Gross/Brut" so your package is not bad financially.

[joker737]

They just sign a bonding of €15K which reduces over 2/3 years!!!!

[mmrassi]

Can someone tell me how should I apply for FO position in this company?

I found a webpage but all in Turkish and with many troubles, was almost impossible load and progress with that website.

Regards

[Clandestino]

Be prepared for very hard work and a very limited social lifeI see a potential for some significant savings there :E.

Would it be possible to rent a studio in Ankara at non-extortionate price? I find 1000€/m with all expenses covered nearly reasonable but 1100 sq ft is methinks just an overkill for a single guy.

[AndreRocky]

Hi guys,
may I ask you a question about SunExpress Application?
I've tried to apply online, but is ALL in turkish... so after the loooong translation, it don't give me the possibility to apply because there are fiels required that I have to fill in and is mandatory.... but... if I haven't attended the university I can't fill this field...
So have U any idea how can I do???
there is a Email of human resources where I can send my CV???

[SXS]

Are here some SXS Pilots with Base SAW and they can tell me where is a good place in Istanbul for a apartement?

[maverikk]

Hi guys,
i would like to ask to Phenom100 and to B737air have you received any answer from sxs after you have sent them the documents required? I was contacted by them the same days as you but didn't recived any answer ....

[aerocomp]

Where can you apply for the NTR FO Position at SunExpress? Is it just possible through their website which is in turkish?

[maverikk]

through their website in Engl. .....

[caulfield]

Some nonsense here guys… the commuting contract from Ankara guarantees block off 7 days off plus the mandatory days

Theres a lot of disinformation coming from guys already in SXS..some are married to Turks and paint a much rosier picture of this "airline" than is the truth.Some are German and have an affinity with Turks that almost no other EU people share.First off,that commuting contract wasnt even on offer to begin with.Originally they wanted you based in Syrian border with no days off except 6/1.Salary was 6600 euros and no commute.It was changed to 6k and 7 days off after they could only get desperate inexperienced guys.The reason for the abundance of non-type rated guys isnt because the Turks are a wonderfully generous people and are offering free upgrades..no no no,its because no experienced type-rated guy would put up with their nonsense(pay,rude gruff Turkish airforce trainers,fiddly SOP that are counter-intuitive).
Watch the contract also..if you dont want to get bullied by autocratic line-trainers and leave after 60 days,theyll try and sue you for remaining contract time.Theyre a nasty bunch.Ankara is a dump and the other bases on offer are like Saudi Arabia.Best bases are reserved for locals.Far be it from me to discourage pilots earning a living but I just want people to know the truth.Tread carefully.Its one of the worst Ive come across and Ive been flying 30 years.

[RVF750]

.....there's always one.

[Clandestino]

Ankara is a dump and the other bases on offer are like Saudi Arabia.The only other base on offer is SAW! :mad: me, I didn't know that Jeddah has as many tattoo studios, massage parlours and watering holes where rakı and Efes flow freely :}

[No RYR for me]

Have a look at caulfield previous posts and everybody and everything is pathetic, stupid, etc apart from mr great pilot Caulfield himself... :ugh:

[Fanor]

What's the latest on the payment for type rating? Bonded or self funded?

[Clandestino]

Three months ago it was 15K€ deposit (or bank guarantee) for non TR DEC, half returned after first year, half after second. EDIT: sorry, thanks to Search user's posts I can see you are asking about F/O position, I have no idea how it works for F/Os. Give the good folk at SXS a call, they will give you the truest and the latest update.

Bargain of the decade, if one can pass the screening.

[fade to grey]

Don't wail on caul field .
I fly with an experienced 737 capt who was there. He paints a picture of a steaming pile of....
I was offered an interview but the Tcs were so bad I declined .

It'll only appeal to dash8 drivers trying to get a leg up

[Boardwalker]

Watch out for the contract!
As a Captain you are bonded for 15K (Typerating Costs) plus if you want to leave earlier than your 2 or 3 years contract you have to pay the months back you are not working for them (e.g. you're flying 1 year and want to jump to another airline, you have to pay back 7.500 E for Typerating plus about 80K for your 1 year absence :ugh:

[TyRod]

Any guys called for F/O position recently?

2500 TT, 2000 heavy turboprop, rated on 737….heard nothing back yet.

[TypeIV]

The only foreign firstofficers that they recruit are from a contracted ab-initioschool in Holland

[TyRod]

What is the purpose of flooding all pilot jobs website with their offers if they only hire guys from a specific school?

[Vipersrt10]

Sxs hires her ab initio pilots from Stella in The Netherlands. The students pay 35000 euros for a 1 year contract. And they call that a job....
30000 goes to SXS for the TR costs and 5000 goes to Stella as a ''training fee''.

50 students total; you do the math.

[Twin2040]

You gotta be kidding

[Fanor]

Just an update about the type rating for First Officer, its 30,000 euros self funded with a 3 year contract.

[No RYR for me]

The students pay 35000 euros for a 1 year contract. And they call that a job....
30000 goes to SXS for the TR costs and 5000 goes to Stella as a ''training fee''.

50 students total; you do the math.

They pay their TR just like at RYR and Easy etc. You will get a one year contract making appr 3000 a month in the first year. All the people who came in on a one year contract in the last 3 years had their contracts extended after the first year and the biggest group that has left are the ones that have moved on to Turkish airlines... (as Sunexpress is a Joint Venture between LuftHansa and Turkish Airlines)

If you want to complain about P2F you have to across the street to the likes of Pegasus who hire and fire after one year. Sunexpress is actually one of the few decent outfits in the region full of the likes of Atlas Air, Onur Air, etc... Granted they are not BA, Air France or KLM but for a Turkish outfit ok. I spend two nice summers flying on a contract for them and as long as you appreciate they are Turkish (CRM!) and are a LCC you are fine. :ok:

[Kirks gusset]

Maybe the Mods should ban anymore boring repetitive discussions on PTF! The SXS deal is NOT PTF… the fee covers the type rating, line training, OCC course, recurrent training, 2 days sim every 6 months OPC/LPC and all the admin costs of work permits, DGCA approvals etc etc. During the year they earn good salaries ( average net with O/T 4500 Euros) and after 1 year will have 900 hrs plus on type and nearly all get contracts extended.. so what's the beef.. Year 2 they are back in positive cash flow, that's a whole lot better than sitting around wishing and waiting for the " good old days" to come back. IF you can pass the assessment , its a great start to an aviation career. Of course, with nearly 100 guys in training, places are now limited..

[lmiguel]

hello dude
i am geting the some problem. i am B737 FO and i wanna to apply Sun Express, but i have the same problem, i can not do the application because they require a University degree in Turkey.

SO , can you pls help me !!

How did you deal with it ?

thank you for your attention

[Kirks gusset]

Pupo, here's the question, current SXS recruitment is either via Stella as ventilated above or if you are ex-military Turkish you don't pay all the costs up front but have a lower wage as the costs are cut from the salary… is this still PTF? If it's about cash flow and you are already in debt as you were " sold the dream" by some initial training outfit preaching the " great pilot shortage myth" you will probably appreciate the extra salary, on the other hand if you are a 50 year old ex major with little debt the reduced salary won't matter too much. It's not a perfect world for sure but at least some guys are getting a break. The argument that this practice stops the " talented" getting in the airlines is nonsense, we see many many applications from integrated school guys that have been waiting two or three years, have increased their debt to "keep current" and are now on the back foot. Yes, in an ideal world the airlines should carry the cost, alas they have learnt they don't have to and are unlikely to change. Why is no one claiming the Tui Fly type rating and flying at 110000 e is " pay to fly" ? maybe the Belgium and Dutch think differently, or just take a different view towards getting a job..of course, if you have the luxury of no overheads, no kids to support and no mortgage and are living off the parents then I guess it's easy to pontificate. I'm waiting for the curd to hit the fan when NAS get the A320 type rating scheme going!

[flash48]

I have heard that those commuting contracted captains have earnt around 8 to 9k per month last year with over flights.

[flash48]

They have a simple mail adress for the application : [email protected] :D

[flash48]

T&C
Watch out for the contract!
As a Captain you are bonded for 15K (Typerating Costs) plus if you want to leave earlier than your 2 or 3 years contract you have to pay the months back you are not working for them (e.g. you're flying 1 year and want to jump to another airline, you have to pay back 7.500 E for Typerating plus about 80K for your 1 year absence

IT IS A BILETERAL CONDOTOIN, IF THEY KICK YOU OUT, THEY SHOULD YOU PAY IT.:=

[flash48]

Quote:
The SXS deal is NOT PTF… the fee covers the type rating, line training, OCC course, recurrent training, 2 days sim every 6 months OPC/LPC and all the admin costs of work permits, DGCA approvals etc etc.
Youre surely being ironic!? That is PTF and no mistake. These are company costs, not employee costs in any sane world.


Sick, you are really aout of today's world. Any company pays anymore these costs:ugh:

[TypeIV]

It's 6/1 roster pretty much with one week off in the middle of nowhere with a night return the day before the block-off followed by an 0800lt checkin. Only Ankara base.

[Scott_T]

Are they taking experienced expat FO's again?

[Clandestino]

I have heard that those commuting contracted captains have earnt around 8 to 9k per month last year with over flights. It's not year's average. Could be summertime one.

[me179]

Does anybody know, if there are foreigner FOs being currently hired, other than those coming from Stella?

I have heard that the turkish DGCA wants to reduce the number of foreigner FOs working in Turkey to leave space for new Turkish graduates. Can anyone please send me a link to that rule? I have searched the DGCA website, but didn't get the information.

[TypeIV]

Stella is the only way unless you have a Turkish passport or have alot of experience combined with very good connections.

[me179]

Thanks for your answer.

Do you know, if there are any restrictions from the turkish DGCA concerning reducing or stopping low hrs. foreign FOs to be flying in Turkey? If yes, can you provide me with a link to their published rules?

thanks

[TypeIV]

It's here somewhere on the forum but it's in turkish. Yes there is such a restriction regarding low hour FOs but I don't remember any details. That's why companies only take people through AB-Initio schools paying them money to take their students, or like atlas and freebird selling line training.

[me179]

I searched all over the forum, I went to the DGCA website, Google was my friend and Translator, however I didn't find it. Can anyone provide me with a link?

I get contradicting news from the turkish carriers. On one hand they are still hiring low hours pilots, on the other hand some refer to a DGCA rule that I've never seen on their website, and on a third hand (if this term is correct), they do accept foreign LowHour FOs who buy their own TR and LT.. The question is, are these FOs kicked out after the 500 hours LT or do they stay longer till they at least break even and leave with 1500+ hrs ?

Anyone here who had the experience?

[DutchExpat]

This the problem they will change the rules as suits them. We went from IST base is growing to oh its closing to oh sorry we need 500 people in IST to oh it is probably closing again in say 3/4 of a year. You never know. This job is great for a purpose. Get the type rating, you ll gain some amazing experience flying wise and cultural wise which you ll take with you for the rest of your life and the money is quite good if you get paid in Euros. But your are a guest in a very proud country. A temporary guest and sometimes an unwelcome guest. Know this accept it and you ll have a great time and have a plan for the future as this 100% is not a permanent gig for anybody but the Turish. All my humble opion ofcourse.

[Global_Global]

they do accept foreign LowHour FOs who buy their own TR and LT.. The question is, are these FOs kicked out after the 500 hours LT or do they stay longer till they at least break even and leave with 1500+ hrs ?

You are confusing some companies: Freebird, Atlas and Pegasus used to do LT programs. SunExpress has never done line training programs but used to have a one yearcontract to start you of with. The reason they are still hiring and training low time FO's is because a lot of foreign SXS FO's went to become FO at Turkish once they had enough hours (SXS is a joint venture between Lufthansa and Turkish airlines)

The rest is 100% like DutchExpat is saying..

[Fanor]

Just a warning for all the low hour expats wanting to work in Turkey. Unless you have done your national service or bought your way out you will not be eligible to work in Turkey as a pilot.

[TypeIV]

@Fanor, I you are referring to military service, then I can inform you that you are incorrect.

[Fanor]

I'm telling you this from first hand experience dealing with sun express and freebird airlines. No national service = no job.

[despegue]

Fanor,

Yes,this is correct if you are a Turkish national.
Obviously, foreigners are exempt:rolleyes:

[Fanor]

Yep. That's why I said "expats be warned". But they are cutting foreign pilots now, or will be soon due to a new DGCA ruling on the percentage of foreign pilots they can have.

[TypeIV]

Fanor, no there's a big batch of people on the way in, DECs and first officers from Stella.

They will never require a foreigner to have their military status completed. So nothing to be warned about.

There is a limitation on the amount of foreign first officers that they can have, that is true, but nothing regarding DECs. Also for the Stella guys, they have a way around this limitation. However the future is uncertain regarding how much capacity they will produce, therefor there are no guarantees.
But where do you have any guarantees?

[me179]

I conclude, concerning foreign low hours FOs intending to work / fly in Turkey:

1. Concerning SunExpress: Stella is the only way to step in, provided that the FO is under 32 years of age.

2. Everyone has heard of the DGCA rule limiting the number of foreign FOs, but noone has it written or can provide a link from the DGCA website.

3. Everyone knows that Turkish Airlines is in bad need for pilots. Any chance to slip in for an EU foreign low hour pilot? On their job openings at their website it's officially not possible if the applicant is not a Turkish citizen, or a foreigner without experience (hours on jets). HOWEVER, I do hear from time to time about freigner low hours pilots who slipped in. Any contact / Email to send an application to?

4. As for buying a TR and LT at Atlas Jet / Pegasus / Freebird, I didn't find such information on their websites. I believe, the deal should be done through a sub-contractor. Can anyone here provide me with a contact?

Thanks

[mittr]

Hi folks!

Is there anyone who could share his/her experience with mollymawk screening and the next stages afterwords?

What is the current situation at sxs, oulook, t&c's, atmosphere....thanks in advance:ok:

[Tyreplug]

I spent about three weeks solid preparing for mollymawk as I was at school some time age. It is do-able with preparation unless or without if you have not long finished maths/science GCSE/A'level.
Working memory test is what everyone finds most difficult.
Sim OK but also a couple of hours practice before is big help - Virtual Cambridge. Raw data departure, engine fail, NDB approach that sort of thing. Allowed to use the FPV.
Interview with HR, pilot and German psychologist who makes you feel at ease and then tries to get you agitated or angry - asks bizarre questions of which the answer is probably not that important but the way you handle them.
On line, interesting work, but very hard work. The roster is often a work of fantasy and subject to constant changes. Eat, sleep, fly mostly. They generally look after you ok and leave you pretty much alone to get on with the job. Others may see things differently to me - best of luck

[Scott_T]

ANy idea when they will recruit expat fo's again?

[TypeIV]

They recruit some Ab initio pilots from time to time, but it's only from one contracted school which supplies as many as they can legally have. Expansions seem to be over and don't count on a way in other than as a DEC or Stella graduate.

[me179]

Good Day,

As seen recently on their website: http://hr-link.net/Home/Index

It seems they are taking Turkish citizens to train them at Stella, in addition to that, they have an open vacany for low hours FOs.

Can someone please elaborate on that, if foreign ready entry FOs can apply, or is it ment for Turkish citizens as well?

Cheers,

[Kirks gusset]

The last bunch of Stella Guys joined about 2 months ago in Antalya, they had been waiting for a while, their initial interviews where back in Jan/ Feb.
At the moment there is no plans to take any more foreigner FOs, SAW base will contract and some guys will have to move to other bases. Recruitment of Turkish Nationals is always on-going.

[TypeIV]

So if I get this right, you are telling people who are working or have been working there to think twice about what they say. And you haven't even worked there yourself... :ugh:

[Cdogutan]

I am not telling people who work there to think twice. They already know what they have. I am giving my own advice to the people who come here to have some information and read the comments which were made by people who like to produce a lot of rumour.

[Djelal]

Hi guys, just got called in for the 3 step process for sunexpress, do I have to do the mollymawk test before or on the date that they have planed, also I'm a uk citizen with the right to have a T.C. citizenship, I done a European English aviation language test but never herd of TOEIC would I be required to still acquire this certificate ? And would any body have any ideas about the technical questions ? I APPLYED for the FO position I have 228 hours total


:hmm:

[DutchExpat]

How did the English test go?

[JaxofMarlow]

Very funny DutchExpat. My thoughts exactly.

[worldoffe]

@Djelal (http://www.pprune.org/members/441815-djelal): Do you have turkish nationality and an University degree?

[Djelal]

No I havent got a university degree, Im not a TC Citizen at the moment but I have the right to become a Turkish citizen from my mother and my wife, also spoke with irmak yetkin she told me tht I do require a TOEIC test

[Kirks gusset]

FIRST OFFICER
Genel Nitelikler

We are looking for Turkish First Officers and a good team member, who will be based in Antalya or Izmir
Min age of 21 years
Min CPL (A) / IR (A) Licence and IR on multi-engine aircraft
Have MCC course
ATPL (A) theoretical knowledge exams passed
Have a valid JAR FCL 3 class 1 medical certificate
English language proficiency for F/O candidates must be;
TOEIC (Reading 385, Listening 400, Speaking 160, Writing 150)
TOEFL IBT (Reading 22, Listening 21, Speaking 23, Writing 21)
Have university degree
No obligation of military service for male candidates

Normally they will require the Mollymawk results and TOEIC results as part of the screening...but.. if you have HR email its an easy enough question to ask and they will give you the heads up. Don't forget you have to pay 30000 Euro for the type rating as the bonding system is gone apart for ex military guys, they have the cost deducted over 5 years and have reduced salary.. You used to be able to supply a letter of guarantee from the bank but since so many " jumped ship" without meeting their obligations the system has changed.. reverbs on the thread : pilots pay to fly" and people ask why!

[Kranich]

... and you should be fluent in Turkish!

[Iver]

Will Sun Express still be flying the A330s for LH's Eurowings longhaul operation? If so, are experienced 737NG pilots transitioning to the Airbus or will they bring in Airbus-rated pilots?

[Clandestino]

Provided Eurowings LH operation really gets off the ground, do SXS/SXD have surplus of pilots they can send over?

[TypeIV]

If I may speculate, they would probably take people from LH to start the ops. Even though they have many people with experience on the 320 in SXS/SXD, I think setting up a long haul ops on a new aircraft type will be difficult without some help from outside.

Since the Eurowings probably is a way meant for LH to move the longhaul production to another lowcost subsidary, there will be plenty of laid off Lufthansa guys to do the operation :rolleyes:

[Kirks gusset]

They have already started transition courses for ng Captains already based at SXD and about 8 Captains will transfer from SXS to SXD to fill the gaps.

[Clandestino]

Rumour has it SXD currently pays its captains 6000€ net per month worked. If it's true, is the deal sweetened somewhat for 330 capts?

[Djelal]

is there anyone on the site that will be attending the mollymawk test on 27/02/2015 for sunexpress at antalya ?

[november.sierra]

I received an invite for assessment for SXD in Berlin. It's a 2 day assessment including a sim check on a B737 Classic.

Does anyone have any info regarding the selection process, i.e. the sorts of questions asked, the content of the psychometric tests and the sim profile? I'd be very happy for any information anyone might have.

I applied for an FO position and have several thousand hours B737NG time and speak fluent German.

[november.sierra]

The assessment is conducted in Berlin by Aerologic. After a brief introduction and a quick presentation about the company, the first phase of the psychometric tests starts. The tests are multiple choice and are completed on a laptop. There are 4 tests to be done, starting with a general knowledge test with questions mainly covering German politics. Following this test, there is a relatively straightforward B737 technical test, followed by a test covering ATPL questions covering a wide range of subjects but yet again, these are fairly straightforward. Once these are completed, there is a visual perception test with a cube containing a twisted cable pictured from various sides and angles and you have to identify from where the pictures are taken.

The maths test works as follows: there are 2 sequences arranged on top of each other, and if the result of the top row is bigger than the result of the bottom row, subtract the bottom result from the top result, if the result of the bottom row is bigger than the result of the top row, add both results together. The catch in this exercise is that occasionally, even if you enter the result correctly, there will be a message saying it was wrong, and sometimes a new question will only appear for a few seconds before disappearing. This is probably done to add pressure.

After a quick break, the tests continue. There is a test covering concentration and reaction, where you have to watch an old fashioned radar screen where the radar blips are shown as triangles and circles, and you have to press a button every time a circle shows. There is a long English test which is straightforward and covers things like identifying missing words in a sentence, identifying spelling mistakes and word association. Some of these sentences are badly worded and will appear to have no correct answer. The next test is based on technical understanding and shows pictures of cogs where you have to identify which way they are turning. Once this test has been completed, the next test covers logical understanding, and shows several symbols, where a matching symbol has to be identified from a list.

Spatial awareness and understanding is then tested once again, with an exercise where cardboard cutouts are laid out flat and pictures of the completed structure are shown, where you have to identify the correct one. Following this exercise, a similar one follows where symbols are shown and you have to identify which symbol fits it correctly as a mirror image.

Memory testing: Information regarding a business meeting at a hotel is presented for 2 minutes and you have to remember as much information about the details as possible. Pay particular attention to the symbols shown. The trick with this exercise is that after the 2 minutes are up, a quite complex maths test follows. The test itself is straightforward, but quite longwinded. Once completed, questions regarding the business meeting follow, especially covering symbol recognition and numbers.

Then there is a test covering information processing. As the secretary while the boss is away, you have to sort through, save and reply to e-mails. You have to decide whether to save the e-mails externally or internally, whether to answer them or whether to save them internally or externally. On the whole, this test is quite straightforward, however, there is considerable time pressure.

The last test is psychological profiling, where you have to answer 210 personal questions quickly and whether you agree or disagree with the statement.

In general, the atmosphere during the assessment is friendly and relaxed. There are ample opportunities for breaks and food and drink is provided throughout the day. The sheer amount of tests is quite overwhelming and keeping up concentration is challenging. The day starts at 9 am and there is non-stop testing until roughly 4:30. A good level of German is required, conversational German will not be sufficient to understand the quite complex questions using technical terms. One thing that was said in the introduction however, was that language difficulties are taken into consideration.

To prepare for the tests, there is an online test facility (German language only) available on www.der-eignungstest.de that quite a lot of the tests are based on. Some other tests are taken from Hogrefe Hogrefe, Verlag für Psychologie (http://www.hogrefe.de/) and I'm not sure if these are commercially available for practice.

Once the tests are completed, there is a break before transport is provided to Lufthansa Flight Training for the sim check, which is done on a B737 Classic simulator, but there have been reports of depending on availability, a B737NG simulator being used.

The sim check is flown with no flight directors and raw data only. The detail is flown at Stuttgart EDDS, RW25 SID DKB8B. When established on the outbound radial, ATC will provide a radar heading and issue a climb clearance to FL100. Once level, ATC will ask for specific speeds, speeding up to 310 kts and then immediately reduce to 220 kts, followed by increasing to 250 kts again. Then 2 steep turns are requested, to the left and right, before proceeding to LBU VOR and then entering the hold over LBU. ATC will ask which hold entry will be performed and after less than 1 lap in the hold, a radar heading is given for radar vectors for an ILS approach to RW25. Hand over control, set up and brief the approach, and then report ready to ATC and the final vector will be given. Cloud base is reasonably high, so you become visual fairly quickly.

Following landing, the aircraft is repositioned on the runway for a LOFT exercise. It is a V1 cut with severe engine damage, profile to be flown is exactly as per current SOP's. Once the problem is dealt with, radar vectoring for an ILS RW25 are given to a landing, upon which the simulator session will finish.

If you have never flown a B737 Classic you are in for a surprise. The instrument layout is quite different and the engine displays are not as easily readable, and handling is a lot more sensitive than on a B737-800. It is also worth mentioning that LIDO charts are used for the assessment, they are quite difficult to read if you're not used to them. You will fly with a SXD captain and can occupy either seat, and you are told to use your current procedures. The PM will not do anything not asked for, and clear briefings are expected.

The next day, an interview follows. This lasts about 45 minutes and the 2 sim check pilots plus the psychologist are present. Initially, the test results and the sim check are discussed, and then personal questions follow. There are no surprises, they are the usual, what are you strengths and weaknesses, what do you know about the company and why do you want to work here, where do you see yourself in 5 years time, etc etc.
Then some technical questions are asked, eg PTU, landing gear transfer unit etc. Some further general knowledge ATPL questions could also be asked.

It is fairly extensive testing and the tests, although none particularly difficult, are challenging due to the sheer volume and the time pressure involved. The sim check is fair and relatively straightforward, and the interview is set up as a cross examination, with the 3 interviewers on one side and you on the other and that can be quite intimidating. However, the entire team is friendly and quite relaxed.

[djanello]

Thanks a lot november sierra! :)

[moodyh]

Hello everyone,

I have a interview at Sunexpress, Turkey coming up next month. I'm preparing for the Mollymawk and simulator session right now. What I wonder is, how to prepare for the interview.

This is my first interview for an airline. I really would appreciate if anyone have some advice on what to read and how to prepare for the personal/technical interview?

Take care :)

[DutchExpat]

Get the book Airline Pilot Interviews by Irv Jasinski I have not failed an interview after I read and used it

[B738]

Hello,

can somebody tell me something about the actual working conditions in SunExpress!?

How does an average roster for a pilot with base Ankara look like?
Is the roster stable?
How many hours do you fly per month in Ankara base?

On the commuting contract are the 7 cons. days OFF fixed or will they change often, so can you plan your trip back home well in advance?

How much is an appartement in Ankara?

Is it possible to change to SunExpress Germany when you are employed with them in Turkey?

Thanks for your answers in advance!

Best regards

[TypeIV]

From the guys I know there:

Extremely unstable roster. Expect having your off days changed even with only a day or two of notice. If you have a two sector day, they can legally force you to fly another two legs and this happens frequently.

60-70hrs of flight but at least 2-3x flight duty time since the flights are so short. Alot of night duties with three hours at the hotel between the flights.

The seven days off are usually confirmed in advance but the rest of the roster is published at the end of the month for the upcoming calender month. The roster is very bad. Also you get a late checkout the day before your block and early checkin the morning after, rendering two days per block Useless. Also there is zero flexibility.

An apartment is 700-1000eur pm.

You need to be perfectly fluent in German and also have a permission from the management to goto SunExpress Germany. If they need you in a base for which they cannot find pilots (such as ankara) then they won't let you go easily.

[B738]

Thanks for your answers!

Do you have those 20 days of holiday also on the commuting contract?

I'd like to join SunExpress Germany but I don't have experience on the 737!?
So I'm thinking about taking the offer in Turkey and try to change to Germany with some hrs on the 737!??

[B738]

Worth a try, but don't assume you will be able to switch to Sunexpress Germany soon. Many people are waiting to make that move.

Have you also applied directly to Sunexpress Germany via Interpersonal? And I have heard they took on some ex-cabin crew members last Winter, so that may be something worth looking into.

Yes I also applied directly to them but according interpersonal they are only taking pilots with 737-Rating at the moment...

[Kirks gusset]

738 I believe Sigma have all the details of the SXS Turkey contract, but from the guys we meet transiting home they seem to get 7 days off, finish late, start early so in effect they can have 5 days at home. From Ankara many travel to IST to commute back but if loads are heavy they may not get on flights, but there is other choices as SXS has same ID network as THY. No annual holiday is given as the contract is commute. Beware that according to Turkish SHT OPs, days off are proportional to days worked, therefore if the minimum is 7 days a month off, in theory you could work 6/1 6/2/6/7. Looking at the schedule for Anadolu Jet from ESB, its more like an office job, no real early flights ( before 6 local) and no latex, occasional ( open duty) where you leave ESB late, hotac 4/5 hours and travel back. But probably 2 a month max.Second part, NO you can't go to SXD as SXD recruitment is based on seniority and station demand, there are maybe 50 guys fluent in German that will be ahead in the queue. SXD is not so great for the money as its a 12 month/paid 8 Months gig ( or 75 %) but with a 100% roster.
Hope that helps

[Clandestino]

7 days off blocks are confirmed in June and December for next 6 months and company does not change them, swaps are possible. Issue with losing off days for travel has been taken to mgmt, there was agreement there should be early finish before commuting off-block and late start on fırst day back ın ESB and it has worked last couple of months.

Roster has all the stability of hog on ice and currently commuters are flying anything between 40 and 75. Last summer ESB was oversubscribed so typical month would involve about two weeks of AnadoluJet flying from Ankara, six days of SXS flying from AYT and two days of redtail ops from SAW (usually LGW and VIE) with rosters sometimes just getting a bit northward of 100 hr - yes, I'm still talking about commuting contract. This summer quite a few folks moved to AYT and ADB so ESB capts haven't seen layovers so far except short ones in Trabzon, Antep and such. Rumor has it in autumn Anadolujet will start international ops from Ankara but whether it's true and if it will be operated by SXS, remains to be seen.

700-1000 € for apartment is realistic price for decent part of town with numerous waterholes where expats tend to congregate. As apartments in Turkey usually start at 100 sqm, you can comfortably share such a flat with roommate, or settle down in not-so-attractive neighborhood for 350€pm.

Contract specifically stipulates that 7 days off are given in lieu of annual vacation. Unpaid leave can be requested and is liberally granted outside summer season.

[Behrt707]

Hello evreybody,

I sent my application to Sun Express Turkey and after some weeks I received an e-mail asking me some documents like photocopy of licences, diplomas, medical certificate and so on...I sent evrything and now are passed about two weeks but I didn't still receive any answer.
Is there anybody who made this step and can tell me how many weeks waited for some answer?

Thanks a lot!!

[Kirks gusset]

I expect like THY being in the middle of the high season there is no capacity for interviews or selection. What little capacity was left at SXS has been hoovered up with converting THY guys to SXS for temporary summer contracts. Probably after October things will start to move again on the recruitment fronts. We have courses planned from Feb,March 2016. Priority now is to finish the existing guys.

[Behrt707]

Thank you very much for your answer!

[Kirks gusset]

TURKISH AB INITIO PILOTS WANTED
(Ref:0000ABI)


Qualifications
SunExpress, Turkey’s leading private carrier focused on international and domestic flights, and Stella aviation International, an international high quality training organisation join forces!

To accommodate their growing fleet of modern Boeing 737NG’s and the expanding network of SunExpress new professional pilots are needed. We are therefore looking for well motivated candidates with the Turkish nationality who want to become airline pilot with SunExpress.
SunExpress offers job guarantee after successful completion of the training
Study financing is available;
High quality training according to the latest International training philosophies and standards. The training takes place in Turkey and The Netherlands; Training duration approx. 18 months;
Training starts in 2015.

Interested candidates will be invited to information sessions which will be organized at various locations in Turkey. After the information sessions candidates will be invited to undergo our pilot selection to ensure that they have what it takes to successfully complete the training and get one of the most wanted jobs in the world!

Admission Qualifications of the candidates;
Date of birth: 01-09-1985 or later with a maximum of 29 years;
4 year University degree (equivalent qualification certificatioin for foreign degrees) Prefarable highschool degree with matematics and physics
More than 4 years postponement of the Turkish Military Service is accepted, preference is completion of the Turkish Military Duty (for male candidates)
Possession of a valid passport without restrictions and able to obtain any visa;
Health Requirements: Must meet the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) Annex-1 and JAR FCL 3 Commercial Airline Pilot requirements.


PLEASE NOTE " TURKISH PILOTS"


FIRST OFFICER
(ref:ESBOP05)
Genel Nitelikler

We are looking for Turkish First Officers and a good team member, who will be based in Antalya or Izmir
Min age of 21 years
Min CPL (A) / IR (A) Licence and IR on multi-engine aircraft
Have MCC course
ATPL (A) theoretical knowledge exams passed
Have a valid JAR FCL 3 class 1 medical certificate
English language proficiency for F/O candidates must be;
TOEIC (Reading 385, Listening 400, Speaking 160, Writing 150)
TOEFL IBT (Reading 22, Listening 21, Speaking 23, Writing 21)
Have university degree
No obligation of military service for male candidates
İş Tanımı
Şehir/Ülke: Ankara, Antalya, İzmir
İlan Tarihi: 18.07.2015
Personel Sayısı: -

[foswillruletheworld]

Well guys as a pilot who has worked for Sunexpress for 2.5 years, i can tell that; whatever you read in this forum(as in bad meaning) about Emirates, multiply it by 5 for Sunexpress.
Unstable rosters, cruel management, and unpolite cockpit crew. As in unpolite i mean most of the old captains have been covering for the company because they already have a pension salary from military + getting paid by Sunexpress with really good terms and conditions. If you say something bad about the company they are the first ones who will turn against you. Actually it was like that until last year. Now everone is complaining. As opposite of other companies, whatever you sign for they do not change your terms as of any other crew member. Like there is a first officer who has 14 days of annual leave excluding saturdays and sundays, however if you join from now on it will exclude only sundays.
Things are getting really worse here and most of the pilots already started for other options. Some have already made deals with other companies, so in the right time the resignations will start raining.
If you need details i can answer any specific question you ask under this thread.
The only thing i can say is the Antalya, Istanbul and Izmir bases are working like horses and both cockpit and cabin crew are already exhausted. All immune system down and people started getting sick(heart attacks, high blood preasure, ear nose throat problems) due to high working frequency. They can even count your medical ground days as days off, so they can schedule you less than minimum off for the rest of the month.

[APUinop]

I have friends still working there and they are mostly thinking about leaving, I was thinking about going there but apparently they have their own very creative interpretations of the duty time limitations. Told to stay away. These I've heard in second hand but some guys can maybe confirm the following statements?

Several night duties in a row and after coming back in the morning, sometimes they even schedule you to fly on the same afternoon.

12hrs of standby duty per day (standby is not counted as duty time there) and apparently they demand you sometimes to start a flight duty before your standby even has begun and sometimes even after it has finished...

All limits are based on calender months, if you take vacation, flying for eg. 125 hrs in 4 weeks is possible when you return.

Off days are often changed with one day notice, with the excuse that you have more then the legal limit of 7 already and should be greatful.

Sick days are counted as off-days, and I couldn't even understand the sick reporting procedure.

Non existant fatigue management system.

An official rule prohibiting more than three consecutive off-days to be fair to office workers making commuting impossible. They (at least used to) have a commuting base somewhere in middle of Turkey but when I checked, there were no proper flights to Europe from there.

2+2+1+1+1 off days

Their competitors offer much better T&Cs

I'm an oldish guy and the roster and my health is the most important thing for me so I passed the alternative. Good luck to any takers.

[PBY]

The contract of Sunexpress is a disaster. First two years, there is no notice period. They only way out is to pay the number of the months remaining multiplied by 6000 euros. Guys, check the contract carefully. It is very misleading.

[Capt143]

Dear guys
Any information about DEC ? How is the terms and conditions ?
Special thanks inadvanced if anybody shares his information to me.

[cucuotto]

Capt143 can't you read?

[squarecrow]

As cucuotto said read the Post's above. I agree with APUinop post, I would like to get back on a Boeing but I will pass this one up.

[WXCptFedUp]

OK Guys, I'm an insider as well and not always happy about the company but we have to be honest, these days all low costs even in Europe have T&C that are far away from the majors. If you look for Majors conditions, go to a major…

Positive of Sun Express (from my own point of view) :
1. Crew are very friendly if you come with a positive mind. I've done three other company already and SXS has been the best one for this.
2. Management not annoying if you stay away from them. At least in Ankara, no management directly here. If you fly stable approach they'll leave you alone. I'm flying Raw data and visual approaches every day if I can, never got any problems.
3. Good salary (Full time) : Basic today is 6700 after taxes. Never got less than 7500. In Summer, average this year 9500 (but see as well negative points below about fatigue)
4. Chief pilot doing is best to accommodate reuest (I didn't get paid to say this really :} ) In three years here almost, never got refused annual leave or Three days off request. Some days off had been changed to duty and after a quick call was changed back to normal)
5. TL Going down which makes your salary in local currency getting increased by more than 15% in 6 month time ( !! It can go the other way ;) )

Negative :
1. Heavy roster and related fatigue. 950 Hrs per year or Max duty limit ; Reached two years in a row. But you call fatigue and make a safety report about it and you get your days changed. They are not happy but nobody got slammed for doing it.
2. Dead head and other work like CBT, … not counted as duty (supposed to be changed next year)
3. Awful drivers for transportation company (But you have free transportation which is positive)
4. Stability of the region : you will fly as close as 8 nm from Syrian border and you can check the latest news about this area on BBC :eek:

In General, if it was to do again, I would go again for a good and free type rating, friendly atmosphere at work and cheap country to live in. I recommended the job for many friends and no one complains as they knew what to expect. Join, do your 2 years contract and bond and get your 1500 Hrs Boeing then go somewhere you expect better conditions. This is a very good transition Company, you will have plenty of good and bad memories (I would say like in every company in the world) or wait to join BA, AF, LH or whatever and you will still meet plenty of people complaining about working conditions.

I think the best would be to fly for fun at 50% somewhere and have your own company doing something completely different and enjoy both of them. that's the plan of many pilots out here ;)

[cucuotto]

I cannot really understand your post. Low cost in Europe offer now local contracts with all perks ( pension, health care) and fixed predictable pattern roster plus higher salaries and good life style. You cannot fly max 950 hours per year with EASA FTL.. SXS is just another ****** up turkish airlines for cheap desparados P2F accepting all kind of **** and lowering the bar of this profession....but as you say you are a gipsy.

[Kirks gusset]

WxCpt
Well balanced post unlike the last nonsense.
The guys that came to THY from SXS miss the more friendly atmosphere on the other hand the rosters are more sympathetic to rest etc. One big positive with the THY/sxs group is the ID travel .ok it's standby but you can book multiple options and only use the ones you need and refunds are no issues . The European Loco:
Ryanair ( or guess my Base 1 in 3 chances )
EasyJet .good outfit if you can get your Base option and are typed if not it's expensive ball ache
NAS don't figure at all .just crooks
WiZz just raised Capt wages do you don't sell body parts to pay rent.
Compare living costs in TL with other parts of Europe and the weak TL is to your advantage.
OK downside, rosters, duty changes Forget instability and İSIS you can get problems anywhere that's why they are called terrorist !
If you have kids school is expensive for European schools.
As noted keep away from management they keep away from you.unlike many pompous arses in Europe .

[APUinop]

Porkflyer has an irrational hate towards all turks for some reason. Together with a rich daddy's boy attitude where he looks down on everyone, I would be cautious basing any decisions based on his views, even though I admit that alot of what he says is true. But let's be a little less neurotic shall we?

It's a different culture, where you live to work, your schedule planners and human resource specialists makes €600 a month where they have a knife to their throats around the clock, where they will be on the street begging for the tiniest mishap. Don't expect miracles or much understanding when you complain about a night shift, making fifteen times of what they make.

[Capt143]

WXCaptFedUp
Thanks a lot for your post. I found it fair and very useful. Your posts will help those who are looking for a right decision.
I will be more than happy if you share more information

[WXCptFedUp]

Cucuotto, you should have problem reading my post.

If you call P2F making 9500€/month with a free of charge TR, you brain should be misleading you.

SXS is offering as well a good private health insurance which worth many european social security system. I've used it for my all family in private hospital with translater for patient, don't know if you would get the same service anywhere in Europe. But it looks like you are part of these fustrated guys loosing their time on Forum to complain about everything.

And about my Gipsy condition, i gave up since I join SXS... I was gipsy when flying not even for a low cost european company which treated several of us worst than anything yu can find in Turkey. If you don't like it, it's your right, stay home but give the opportunity to others to express their view.

And to complete my answer for others, new contracts have dropped this illegal bit about reimbursing the non worked period before end of contract. Nowadays, everybody has a three months notice starting from day one.
Yes, international school are awful'expensive.
More info for those interested by PM

[dirtyrat]

I notice that all of the agencies (that I have seen), are only advertising Ankara base now...
I'm really only wanting Izmir or Antalya as I will be living with my young family... Is there still recruitment going on for those two bases?

I have an interview scheduled soon... can anyone confirm that the assessment is very similar to the write up about Sun Express Germany (few pages back)? Any other tips?

Thanks!

[APUinop]

My friends over there are waiting to change base from ankara to other bases since a long time back. If you sign Ankara, you probably won't get another base since they won't find a replacement and everyone is resigning there. The charter days are over, they make their money by flying wetlease domestic for the government.

[Kirks gusset]

DirtyRat

As mentioned ESB is the normal recruitment location and it is highly unlikely AYT or ADB bases will be offered..the SAW and ESB crews whom fly mainly domestic are being used on layovers to AYT and ABD to do International flights ( mainly nights) as the company wants to balance flight and duty hours. The temporary return of the THY guys to SXS is considered sufficient crews for SAW AYT and ADB, hence Ankara being the advertised option for new joiners.

[Commuter0815]

@WXCptFedUp

Thanks for your informative post. I got worried already reading all the other comments.

I have an interview coming up for a DEC NTR position. I would like to take the chance to come back to bigger airliners going away from commuters I am presently flying(I used to fly bigger jets in the past).

Some questions still remain open:

- If they assign you a base(Antalya,Ankara,...), do they pull you from there to fly at a different base? Or do you stick normally with your base?

- Do they provide normally transport to and from duty? Or do I need to organize myself some wheels?

- The only info regarding contract I got till now is this "7 days off in a row" thing. Do they change this 7 days regulary or is there a good chance you can organize your proceeding back home a bit upfront?

- They mentioned as well the Capt. salary on this commuting roster to be around 6400-6600 Euros. Is this already after tax or is this gross?


Good to hear that the crews are mainly friendly folks as I am used to that from my current company(the only good thing there to be honest).

Anything special I have to keep in mind during the interview(Mollymawk+Interview) and the Sim Session? Or is everything straight forward?

Thanks Gents!

[flydog]

Have assessment and sim coming up next month for TR Captain, any tips or help appreciated, thanks already for the factual and positive comments.

I have no hangers on to drag around, just me so interested in best place to live for quiet life but easy to get to work, like to fly so hours no problem, been on A320 for few years and got laid off, like it better than Boeing but need a job

Thanks

[Kirks gusset]

Commuter, I will try and answer:

The commuting contract is ONLY Ankara, not available any other base.

The salary is net

Occasionally crew are used at other bases but usually for only 2 days max to cover "open duties " of night flights. Open duty is late flight, 3/4 hours hotel then early return, although with the delays the hotac time can be nil.

Transport is provided by the company at main and any deployment base.

Roster is published towards the last working day of the month for home journey planning, but you can plan multiple ID travel and refund the ones you don't use.

If you finish on a late and start on an early that means your available time " at home" uses a day each way to travel. Some guys got caught out travelling back on a work day as the roster can change from an afternoon flight to a morning flight and it is best to be back at base the day before otherwise you are " no show"

Days off during working pattern are " proportional to days worked". So if you need 1 in 7 you can work 6 days on, 1 off, six on 2 off and then six on 7 off.

For Flydog, if you have A 320 rating go to Pegasus, you will also be able to be on a "commuting roster" from Istanbul base, Pegasus pay in Lira, but they pay Captains per sector bonus as well so the pay is much better.

[PT6Driver]

Commuter you are unable to recieve PM.
Pm me when able

[Clandestino]

Well, if you are desperate enough to believe what is written in this trollfest going under "PPRuNe" moniker, here it comes:

SXS is definitively not "Pay-to-fly" gig. It is SSTR for F/Os but full basic salary is paid from training's day one. DECs need to provide either bank guarantee or deposit 15K€ with company, usually half returned after first year and half after second, interest free.

Charter days are absolutely not over and besides, most of the flights from ADB and AYT are flown as XQ scheduled.

Duty time regulations are just copy-paste of Turkish DGCA's SHT 6A-50. Yes, there are 12 hrs stbys with people called before and after end of assigned stby duty. Yes, after 11 hours duty, 10 hours rest is legal so people fly couple of nights in a row or after coming home at 3AM, get picked up again at 2 PM (seldom but it happens).

Off days that one hasn't specifically requested are fair game for involuntary forfeiture. There is sgt. Hartmanistic equality to it; it's the same for local, expat, captain, F/O or cabin crew.

Five days ago, change of roster to earlier check-in time was subject to acknowledgement by the crewmember concerned but I don't discount the possibility there are more knowledgeable folks around, with closer ties to management, that know better. Commuting days are sacrosanct but having early finish before them and late start after is subject to availability and goodwill.

Rule about not having more than three consecutive days is unofficial and with cooperation from planing department can sometimes be creatively circumvented but definitively not every (or every other) month so whoever gets full time contract won't be able to commute.

Salary is paid in Euros or TLs, your choice. Even if you choose to get Liras, it will be expressed in Euros and paid iaw exchange rate on the payday.

Never getting less than 7.5 K and averaging 9.5? Possible yet improbable. Commuters get fixed net 6.1K€ (that's basic that ends on one's account after catering for income taxes and social contributions) while on permanent contract, for minimal experience that the company accepts it is 6.4K€ and is increased both for command experience brought into company and years served with SXS. This summer most of the perms flew about 100-110 hours, base notwithstanding, while scatter among ESB commuters was 50-85 with no set rule who gets what. Best course of action is to budget on basic pay alone and not spend too much time dwelling on thy neighbour's roster or paycheck.

Every doctor I came across in Ankara speaks far better English than me and even reception staff at Bayındır Hastanesi has quite decent standard of English proficiency.

Where will you be based? That's something not even management can predict. Last I've heard is all fresh DEC intake is going to ESB but that's what was already planned in fall 2013. Summer that year saw SXS operating redtails from ESB and SAW. These were 738 painted in THY mainline colours, in THY two-class configuration, mostly doing international flights. Idea was to return them all to THY by winter and perhaps even close SAW. Whoops. THY couldn't accept all of them back and all of the sudden whoever wants to go to, until recently doomed, SAW can go there pronto. Last year SAW was again slated for radical downsizing so people were allowed to move to ADB and AYT. Sure, redtails went away but were replaced by Anadolujet bluetails. Whoops. Send some more bodies to Istanbul.

Every base gets layover in other bases. Whether you are at home or on layover, transportation to/from work is provided by company for every crew member. Last summer ESB roster usually included two flights from SAW and 4-5 flights from AYT or ADB to European destinations. This summer its usually just 2-3 nightflights from AYT or ADB.

Whoever joins, might become prisoner of Esenboğa for a long time or change three bases in two years. There's no way of telling.

If you wan't to come, apply straight to company, do not go via broker. It's faster and cleaner.

If you get called for interview, do all your homework (I mean literally: you will be given list of things to do before interview) and do it properly. Tech interview and sim are straightforward, tripping stone is usually psycheval. Psychologist wants to see that you are not faking or BSing, that you really are motivated to come over and she will put you under considerable stress, sometimes in extremely creative manner.

Of course, I do not work for SXS, I don't live in Turkey and I am no pilot at all. Everything you read here is just product of my imagination running wild and any similarity to real SXS is purely coincidental. If you choose to believe anything written here, you do it purely at your own peril or my name is not Keyser Söze.

[cucuotto]

Kirk Gussets=Parc/CAE

[Capt143]

Dear guys
Is there any information about ICAO License holders ?
What is the procedure for those who are joining with ICAO license ?
Special thanks if any one has information about that and share it.

[Capt143]

Dear guys
Anyone knows about the procedures to be taken for those who are joining with ICAO license ?
Any information about ICAO holders are appreciated
Kind Regards

[Capt143]

Dear sir
Any information about ICAO license holders ? What procedure has to be taken for them ?

[Clandestino]

Sorry.

No procedures.

Foreign DECs have to be EASA-licensed, they fly on SHGM validations which are issued mightily promptly. Lot of SXS TREs have Dutch licences and are able to perform LPC for pilots from any EASA country.

[Akrep]

Your information is outdated clandestino,

Rumour train is that shgm will now allow icao licences as well

Soon SxS will be truelly an international airline.

[cucuotto]

Turkey is becoming a paradise for "developing countries "pilot.. wait and see the outcome..

[Clandestino]

For quite a few years there is working system in place that enables EASA licence holders to fly TC- aeroplanes and now there is rumour that SHGM might allow the same for ICAO pilots.

I guess there are some meanings of "outdated" that I am completely unaware of but then I ain't no pilot and know just what is written on SXS careers site.

[Capt143]

Dear cucuotto
What do you mean about developing countries pilot ?
Would you please let us know what is the relation between a country and professional pilot careers ? In cockpit will your profession and skills conduct the aircraft or your nationality ?
I saw some guys here talking about Turkey as a third world country with below standard working conditions etc, if you believed that you are from a first world country with pretty higher standards, ok why you waste your time with turkish operators ? Why you do not work at your own high standard country ?
In my opinion, a safe flight is conducted by professional careers and skills not by nationality. Nationality has no priority over profession.

[Kirks gusset]

Cucuotto and Pork Flyer contribute nothing to these forums and simply display racial attitudes towards any threads. I doubt if they are real pilots maybe trolls or scammers but appear to have no real knowledge of the aviation community or the profession itself. Best approach is to ignore them completely. This time next week I will be working for NASA or MI 5 if their guesstimates are anything to go by!

[cucuotto]

I am NOT working in Turkey but I have friends that do ( most probably not for long) and tell me stories... Would it be fair to say that we can expect , on average ,an higher level of professionalism in certain environment or regions of the world if compared to others? Would you rather go under surgery with a surgeon with a degree from a premium North American medical school or one that got his degree in Bangladesh ? We are not all the same in aviation. Its just automation that is creating this impression. Its easy to confirm this from statistics on where accident happens most frequently or on airlines safety. You can tell me that I'm racist but this is not about race, color of skin its just about cultures, sociology, organization. licensing methods, training environment, resources. Some countries are aviation safety friendly , others are NOT. Face it. And its seem like Turkey is, due to the poorness of their T&C is now attracting pilots that would most probably not be able to join other more "competitive" environments.

[de facto]

Thats exactly the same bull**** chinese media are writing about expat pilots....they are here cause thay cant get a job in their own state airline ...
Most guys i met were from major airlines,defunct or on furlough...
THY selection process doesnt fluctuate with the TL...but again maybe youd like to ask the ex Emirates guys who joined THY if they think they are the bottom of the barrel....
Foreigners represent apparently 10 % of the work force..failure rate always been 70 %...fair or not ...either way it seems even pilot shortages dont change their selection process.

[squarecrow]

@Kirks_Gussett yes you can do 3 on 1 off at Pegasus but you are on unpaid
leave for 5 and they take 2 of your off days to make up the 7.

[flydog]

Mann you need to go up the jungle and drink the coolade! The education system in America is abismal and your ref to a surgeon is pathetic. If got a degree from any American prestigious college your daddy paid for it, does not mean you have any skills or intelligence ...look at the previous President, C- from Harvard and lucky if IQ makes the figures.
As for Bangladesh, I would choose that surgeon every time and twice on Sunday as they say.
I have 6 ATPL s from 6 continents and have worked for 10 major airlines and all went broke, if you live long enough you will witness the same. I am going for SXS assessment and would be very proud and happy to work for that airline and live in Turkey. I have worked and lived all around the world for 35 years in aviation, have 23,000 hours and 14 type ratings, never failed an exam or checkride or anything else and have no accidents or incidents. The emergencies and tech issues I have dealt with were dealt with calmly, methodically and logically without complicating the issue.
So please don't judge others motivations for joining an airline. If you are a pilot, I would almost guarantee you do not have a job and can't keep one due to your poor ATTITUDE towards others. I have worked with more than 36 nationalities of pilot and if I had to fault any of them it would be the North Americans most of whom do not seem able to stay on speed, they are always too fast on the approach, like to exceed flap speeds, kick rudders unnecessarily and have extremely poor radio skills, and will never say Mayday or Pan, preferring to errr err um err we err have err um err maybe err problem here and err um etc etc.
The world is getting smaller and smaller, diversity is necessary and good for business so I would suggest if you are an aspiring pilot, think about a career change, because we don't need your attitude in any flight deck.

[Avenger]

Topic already covered in Ryanair thread.. not free type rating as you are bonded by bank guarantee letter or cash deposit, i.e leave after 12 months and loose 10K Euro! So McGinley speak with forked tongue!

[Capt143]

Dear flydog
Thanks for your post. You are completely right. Cucuotto seems to be a scammer not a pilot or in best scenario the who has been fired due his poor and racist attitude. I saw his useless and racial post in other turkish airlines forums.

[Capt143]

I have just successfully pass the DEC assessment. I found them really straight forward and honest during simulator and interview. Also the terms & condition is completely difference with what is written here. At the moment they are recruiting only for Ankara base for at least 2 years. Any base change shall be after 2 years minimum.

[Capt143]

The type rating is not free. 15000 euro deposit is required but after 2 years it will back to you. And there is no notice period before 2 years.