AUSFLY 2012 Narromine NSW 13-16 September

[AUSFLY 2012]

The Australian Aviation scene has been longing for an Oshkosh inspired kind of fly in, we have Natfly for the light end of the scale, Avalon for the heavy metal, but the vast majority of private and sport aviation has had nothing to serve as an annual get together, sharing of knowledge and education, exhibition of latest products and some all round good entertainment and fostering of goodwill.

Several major private and sport GA groups have gotten together or are supporting this launch of what could become the annual fly in for all private and sport pilots, be they a drifter, gyro, glider, warbird, ballon, certified C152 to Beech B200 or anywhere inbetween pilot/owner.

This thread is to be an information resource, so please keep the posts on topic.

For details and information as they unfold, please keep an eye on www.ausfly.com.au (http://www.ausfly.com.au)

If you are reading this, consider yourself invited!

This event is a not for profit event, and if we all get behind it we can create history by attending the very first, and begin something that can grow into an annual event like the EAA have done over the last 50 years.

Any questions please post them here, for any organisations wishing to participate or contribute in any way, please PM us.

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/AUSFLYGA.jpg

[AUSFLY 2012]

Some news and tips for everyone attending.

Convention Dinner | AUSFLY Narromine 13-16 Sept 2012 (http://ausfly.com.au/program/dinner.php)

The formal dinner function is already 50% prebooked and we expect the next 6 weeks will see a higher rate of bookings, so be part of that rush, as you will not avoid it!

Air displays will now be on the Friday evening as well, 4pm onwards, so that is 50% more than we previously promised. We have a variety of displays from large RC Jets to L39 Jets Gliders to P51 Mustangs and The awesome Hawker Fury of David Warburton (ppruner no less).

Hawker Fury
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/m_IMG_0021.jpg

Add to this aerobatic displays by Tony Blair, Paul Bennet and Rainer Huefner.

And did I hear you say you wanted more? OK, how about the brave and fearless test pilot Keith Englesman flying the WRIGHT FLYER! :D

Don't miss out on the start of something big. Sure it will not be as huge as Oshkosh, just yet, but let's give it a go anyway!

See you there.

[Trojan1981]

The awesome Hawker Fury of David Warburton

Sold! :ok:

[Jack Ranga]

From little things, big things grow....get your arses up there and turn it into Auskosh

[Spode]

Already booked the plane. No idea where to get accomodation, that place is sold out!

[Jabawocky]

Click on the Where to Stay | AUSFLY Narromine 13-16 Sept 2012 (http://www.ausfly.com.au/stay/)

Nita can book you in for a supplied tent site with bunks, just bring your sleeping bag and a pillow :ok:

See you there.....should be some good rum fueled fun:}

I have booked my dinner tickets already, I was told that due catering there can be no walk up purchases. So if you don't book for the formal dinner, the aero club and gliding club is the go.

This should be a good social outing, as Jack the Ranga says, get up there! I have a few mates doing flying displays and from what I know it should be good stuff.

[Jack Ranga]

At night 50 foot off the deck in tight formation??:E

[AUSFLY 2012]

Program of events, seminars and workshops now on the www.ausfly.com.au (http://www.ausfly.com.au) website.

Unfortunately the Fury has had to pull out, but there are plenty of others to entertain.

The flying programme has DOUBLED! Instead of 2 x 1.5 hours we have now gone to 3 x 2 hour format, with the first display Friday afternoon from 3.30pm and two on Saturday.

The Wright Flyer Replica has its new C of A, and all going well will be flying, conditional on weather.

One item on the programme which on the face of it looks like a Experimental category workshop is going to be of great benefit to aircraft owners in not only experimental category but also those owners who have Certified aircraft. AD ENG4 and what is required, plus what else you should be doing. Having the owner educated and able to work (not necessarily hands on) with the LAME is a vital means of improving the service work done, and the understanding of the owner on exactly what condition his power plant is in.

This workshop is going to be conducted by Australia's leading engine LAME Mr Andrew Denyer from Riverina Airmotive in Adelaide.

Check the programme, and do not miss this one!

Entertainment is now confirmed for both Friday & Saturday night and there will be some fuel vouchers to win courtesy of Aero Refuellers. So sharpen up your singing voice! When the pro's give you a go, there will be high value prizes to battle for. Without all the fuss of the TV show.

[Warbo]

Just to clear the air regarding the Hawker Fury at Ausfly 2012 - Unfortunately it will not be making an appearance this year - Sorry!!

[AUSFLY 2012]

Friday & Saturday Night

These Guys will stop you in your tracks!

Ellen & Travis

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/EllenTravis.jpg

[AUSFLY 2012]

Talent show prizes, 2 x 100L AVGAS vouchers , yes thats over $200 worth if you contribute to the evenings festivities and are good enough. Bring along whatever you need!

See if you can upstage the pro's!

Fuel at AUSFLY will be supplied by our major sponsor AERO REFUELLERS and with a generous FIFTEEN....15 Cents Per Litre OFF the published YPKS price on the day.:ok:

Who said the spirit of GA was dead.:D

Tanker up for the trip home! Just don't arrive too light on :uhoh:

Cirrus Aircraft Come and see the latest Cirrus Aircraft, listen in on the Cirrus lecture Cirrus-The Past, The Present & The Future by Australian & SE Asia Regional Director Mr Graham Horne.

Things to Learn Lots of news and information from CASA, Air Services and AOPA on topics from Safety Programs, New Medical Options, and avionics and Surveillance into the future.

EFB's Continually improving EFB products from OZrunways and Avplan will be on show along with educational seminars.

Ballon Glow Friday night the Balloon Trek party will put a beautiful display and backdrop to the BBQ and entertainment.

[Jabawocky]

Hey check this out, link sent to me about Cirrus.

AusFly 2012 - Australia | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/events/191306874330293/)

Even Cirrus are into FB marketing. And I don't "do" FB. I may have to learn it if this is the way even aviation manufacturers are heading. Dick Van Grunsman now has all their media releases and his wise articles on there too. I must be missing something :sad:

[Jack Ranga]

Fuel at AUSFLY will be supplied by our major sponsor AERO REFUELLERS and with a generous FIFTEEN....15 Cents Per Litre OFF the published YPKS price on the day

What a pleasant surprise after being ripped off by opportunistic thieves at other 'events'

[AUSFLY 2012]

Great News!

Horsham Aviation and Dynon Avionics are pleased to annouce the donation of a new Dynon D1 to be raffled at AUSFLY 2012.

For more information see the Dynon press release and information page.

While CASA does approve fitting a Dynon D6/D10A in a certified aircraft in PVT operations, for non private ops, the D1 is a very good emergency tool that can be moved from plane to plane.

Dynon Avionics - SkyView 3.3 Released (http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/news_version_D1_23July2012.html)

Dynon Avionics - The D1 Pocket Panel (http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/D1_intro.html)

Dynon D1 Pocket Panel Introduction - YouTube

Well done Horsham Aviation and Dynon :D

[Ultralights]

is underwing camping permitted with your own tent?

[AUSFLY 2012]

Sort of Ultralights, the long term parking is at the SE corner of the parking area, the BYO camping will be along the boundary behind your plane, this way we can squeeze in as many aircraft as we can, and still keep BYO campers within short range of both the aircraft and the ammentities block.

You must pay some camping fees to cover all the ammentities etc, see Nita at the Narromine Tourist park on arrival. :ok:

By the surge in pre-registration and dinner bookings, we believe this will be a good turn out!

If this is the first go, imagine what 5 years will transform into.

[AUSFLY 2012]

Poster size of the raffle!
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/D1-Poster-A4.jpg

[AUSFLY 2012]

Due to expanded flying displays the times on the arrival instructions have been revised.

Flying In | AUSFLY Narromine 13-16 Sept 2012 (http://www.ausfly.com.au/fly/)

NOTAMS will be issued, please refer to the above in conjunction with NOTAM information.

[AUSFLY 2012]

For those who can't make it Plane Crazy Down Under can get you there by internet radio at least!

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/AusFlyRadioLogoConcept.jpg

http://www.myradiostream.com/planecrazydownunder (http://www.myradiostream.com/planecrazydownunder)

[Captain Garmin]

Arrived after lunch today. Already a hundred aircraft here. Don't miss it. It's gunna be HUGE!!!

[AUSFLY 2012]

We have not started yet :eek:

We are sure that at some point we may disappoint somebody, but if that is because we can't cope with an over attendence, that is a great problem to have!

This has been set out to give GA something that has been needed fora long time, to fill in the missing piece. The fantastic efforts so far have been humbling indeed.

So long as you all have a good weekend, make new friends, learn something new, and want to come back again, it will be all worth the effort.

By the way, the AOPA / CASA safety seminars and the Sunday morning lectures in the next generation of technology is worth seeing. The sneek preview was very good.

Formal dinner function is sold out, and scalping, officially sanctioned that is is going on. The usual Aero Club and Gliding Club meals will be on plus the awesome Ellen, Travis and Andrew will enteratain you.

New Cirrus looks stunning, and the flying displays will have something for everyone, plus a bit more.

The weather has turned gin clear tonight, so a good weekend ahead :ok:

Please note this NOTAM when you search your weather and Notams.

C5342/12
AVIATION CONFERENCE AND AIR DISPLAY - NARROMINE (YNRM)
INCREASED AVIATION ACTIVITY VCY OF NARROMINE AD ASSOCIATED WITH
'AUSFLY 2012'. UNICOM COMMUNICATION STATION ESTABLISHED ON CTAF
FREQUENCY. APRON/PARKING ADVISORY FREQUENCY ESTABLISHED 120.85MHZ.
ADVISORY COMMUNICATION STATION ESTABLISHED ON CTAF FREQUENCY DURING
AIR DISPLAY OPERATIONS, CALLSIGN 'NARROMINE ADVISORY'.

NOTE: ACFT CONDUCTING AIR DISPLAYS MAY NOT BE MONITORING CTAF. AIR
DISPLAY HOURS OF ACTIVITY AS FOLLOWS:
1209140530 TO 1209140730
1209150100 TO 1209150300
1209150530 TO 1209150730

FURTHER INFORMATION ON 'AUSFLY 2012' AVBL ON THE AUSFLY WEBSITE AT:
Private and Sport Aviators Under One Sky | AUSFLY Narromine 13-16 Sept 2012 (http://WWW.AUSFLY.COM.AU/)
SFC TO 8000FT AMSL
FROM 09 132200 TO 09 150800

[Altimeters]

Too bad these activities always bring idiots who overfly at circuit height with the wrong frequency or just don't say anything at all on CTAF, as was displayed at dubbo today. :ugh:

The centre controller was also expressing their concerns to anyone in the vicinity of Dubbo or Narromine. Stay safe out there people and keep a good lookout!!!!

[Captain Garmin]

Perfect weather
great aerodrome
well organized
top airshow
good food at reasonable prices
Huge number of trade displays

With all affordable aviation sectors covered, this event will go from strength to strength.

Loved it all.

Well done guys. I've booked my accomodation for next year!:ok:

[TBM-Legend]

Good to hear. I guess we need something positive.:ok::ok::ok::ok:

[emeritus]

" Verr are ze pictures?"

I am getting impatient.

We need pictures, now!:{

Emeritus.

[captainavgas]

Wow, just got back from Ausfly at Narromine. A really great fly-in. A real credit to the organizers. A very big turnout and perfect weather. Lots of very interesting and diversified aircraft....warbirds, gyrocopters, jets, helicopters, amphibians, light sport, trikes, and a large range of Experimentals. And good aerobatic displays. Also lots of interesting and well attended seminars including talks by representatives of OzRunways and Avplan. Didn't hear a negative comment from anyone. I am expecting that this show will be even bigger next year once the word gets around. This has the makings of a potential Ozkosh.

It just goes to show how vibrant the aviation scene can be in Australia when the various aviation organisations bury the hatchet and come together to show their wares. Just a pity the vintage and veteran guys couldn't see their way out of their cocoon and come on board...but hopefully next year.

I only have one complaint, and it's a very small complaint.....too many guest speakers and speeches at the Saturday night dinner.

[Bevan666]

We arrived home last night from what was an absolutely huge event. We as exhibitors were just astounded at the crowds who attended. Personally I was just so flat out I never saw the air displays or get time to get my camera out and indulge my hobby of taking aircraft photos.

Did get a chance to walk the flight line early in the mornings to see just the huge array of different aircraft, as the sun came up and started melting the frost off them.

The organisers did a fantastic job. Personally I did not hear one word of discontent from anyone. :ok:

Can't wait until next year.

Bevan..

[AUSFLY 2012]

Great show, great people involved, very few problems, and lots of great ideas on how to ramp it up a notch for AUSFLY 2013.

Attendance of aircraft exceeded expectation, people who drove in far exceeded expectation. Exhibitors all had a good weekend, both aero clubs ran out of food late Friday night and so did the Pizza guy, so we dont think anyone went hungry.

And already this morning this video compliation link was emailed in.

sfUVVDiMuaI&feature=g-upl

A massive thank you to all the volunteers, all the exhibitors, and all the people who attended. :Dhttp://www.beechtalk.com/forums/images/smilies/worthy.gif

This is just the beginning :ok:

[Shagpile]

Woot - 5:43

Was an awesome weekend...the locals love it too. I couldn't believe the size of some of the models. Huge!

[Subversive1]

That's not bad at all.

Apart from the ruskies, and the beautiful Avenger & Mustang, was there much of a warbird presence?

[Jabawocky]

Was a hoot! :ok:

And the pic....well mine were pretty limited, but here are a few highlights!

I'll be back next year for sure!:ok:

Subversive; due to unavailability of one Mustang, a Fury and one other that I can't remember, the usual Winjeel and Boomerang etc were there. Hopefully the Temora folk and Ausfly folk can join up for next year and make a bigger warbird presence.

If this is round one.......lookout for round two!

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/m_IMG_1232.jpg

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http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/m_IMG_6848.jpg

And this man is an Air Traffic Controller ....so we can't show you his face on prune :}http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/m_IMG_6850.jpg

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/m_IMG_6852.jpg

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/m_IMG_6857.jpg

[Jabawocky]

And some more!

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/m_IMG_6863.jpg

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/m_IMG_6864.jpg

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http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/m_IMG_6882.jpg

And this lucky man, won the Greg Hood sponsored Aviator Shiraz prize, because he had first soloed further back in time than anyone else there! Long before many of us were born! ....... I think he said around 60 years since his first solo
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/m_IMG_6890.jpg

And from one extreme to the other, this young fella Ben Clowes from down around Deniliquin has just turned 13 and is already building his own RV12 :D under the watchfull eye of his dad and RV6 owner.

Here he is drawing the prize winning ticket for the Dynon D1 mentioned above.
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/jaba430/m_IMG_6944.jpg

[chimbu warrior]

Is that a prolific Pprune poster wearing a tux? :oh:

[Bushmongrel]

I agree the dinner was great but the last two last speeches were just not needed. The rest of weekend was fantastic! The organization of planes on landing was fantastic and great big thankyou to all those fantastic volunteers.:DI be back next year :ok:

[Falcon124]

That blue balloon on the left was the one I brought up from Melbourne for the owners to fly. I was supposed to fly it on Sunday morning but the winds picked up & scuppered that plan. DOH! :)

Was a great time at AusFly! Very much looking forward to next year :)

[VH-XXX]

Is that a prolific PPRuNe poster wearing a tux? :oh:

If prolific is a good thing.... then yes. ;)

[Jabawocky]

Hey what happened to the Balloon Glow on friday night?

Did I miss it?

[Captain Garmin]

I heard an organizer say 300-400 aircraft flew in over the 4 days

[Jabawocky]

I heard from the Albury Refueller that they went through 14,000 litres of avgas, and the Warbirds and display planes would have been less than 4000 of that at least. They had to bring in a second taker Friday night after going through 8000 L and added another 6000.They left empty. I was lucky to get filled :uhoh:

Do the numbers, 10,000 + litres and I know I only took on 115L, so how many aircraft do you need to suck up that much fuel.

I think 400 is a gross understatement :eek:

So Capt Garmin, I think your organiser mate was suffering from a lack of available data at the time! ;);)

It was a major hoot. And I am understating it.

[Falcon124]

Nope, no glow. Too windy, I'm told :(

[Philthy]

Aerojumble

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/Philthy88/Aerojumble-NRM-15-9-12-800.jpg

A bit of everything

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/Philthy88/A-bit-of-everything-NRM-15-9-12-800.jpg

Beautiful classic at sunset

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/Philthy88/Ryan-STM-VH-RSY-NRM-15-9-12-1-450.jpg

[Philthy]

Ausfly 2012 panorama

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l158/Philthy88/Ausfly-2012-panorama.jpg

[CHAIRMAN]

Thanks to all the organisers involved - a great aviation weekend, and the biggest GA turnout I have seen for many years.
Let's try and get all GA involved next year - the venue and facilities are great - it's time for the whole GA community to gather united under one banner one time of the year.
I even bought a new $12 2 man tent from KMart just for the occasion, only my feet didn't fit in. Mate reckoned why am I complaining, it's the price of a roll of glad wrap:{
I'll buy a bigger tent for next year:ok:
Cheers.

[Aye Ess]

HEY...JABA....Pssst...over here !!! (Makes urgent beckoning hand signals).

*Lowers voice to whisper,puts on slinky eyes....

Was there any aviation artists displaying there?

[Jabawocky]

No, I did not see any there AS.

But there should have been. You would have been a hit. Better get your self a formal smock and beret and be there next year.

[Aye Ess]

Thanks Jaba.... *starts making list.... Smock. Beret. Scarf. A second brush. Practice mincing walk and air kisses mwah,mwah.

[DWB50]

From most of the posts here it seems everyone enjoyed themselves at AUSFLY & so they should. It was a fairly social event.
I congratulate the organisers for their first time effort going into the unknown as it were.
As an exhibitor I found it disappointing however. Other aircraft distributors were light on the ground. Exhibitors were the ones that helped pay for the show & I spoke to a couple of dealers that were there to look but were not prepared to pay the up to $500 asked for a site in the form of a "donation".
There will need to be a trade off for future events. In reality I think attendees should pay a entry fee & yes that can have a negative effect on attendance perhaps. Charge exhibitors too much & they won't come. Someone has to pay for this type of event however. I do know there was one aircraft sold from a stand, but at a substantial loss. The level of enquiry was very low. Maybe this was in fact in reality just a fly-in event.
End of the day, for a first time event for me it was OK.

[Bevan666]

Interesting perspective DWB50; one of the other aircraft exhibitors sold more than one aircraft and they said it was absolutely fantastic. They will be back next year.

We were exhibitors (not aircraft) and given the amount of sales and interest we had it was well worth the $500 it cost us.

Bevan..

[Jabawocky]

Interesting post there DBW.

I talked to a few exhibitors who had extremely opposite thoughts and experiences. Exhibit at Avalon and pay a heck of a lot more, and they believe that it was very successful. Some exhibitors donated far more than the number you mentioned and they were happy. The Pacific Avionics guy had this great new Garmin Gadget, sold out in the first hour on Friday!!!!

Perhaps feedback to the organisers would be far more appropriate, I am sure they want to hear it.

And attendees paid a small fee, I paid the $10 per plane, although I bet a lot of tight pilots would have forgotten to register and make a contribution.:=

I thought it was awesome.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

And, most important, Aye Ess..... Refer to everyone as Daaaaahlinc...

As in ".... Daaaaahlinc, Aye Ess knows what you want, you know. Don't make me beg. I won't do it, you know:}"

Luv ya work, Jaba:ok:

Was that "you know who" up from south of the Bass Strait?

[Jabawocky]

Oz..... The Bass Strait clearly was not enough to keep him away. Hence I took the shot! :}

CHAIRMAN, maybe next time sleep in the plane, heck start her up and turn on the A/C :} How much fuel can you burn in one night :E

[baswell]

Standing room only at our talks and constant stream of people by our booth, abating only when aircraft were flying. Talks were well received by all accounts. We were very pleased with the Master Class ourselves; doing it first thing in the morning when our minds are fresh probably helped!

Sold a lot of Knee Docks, directed a lot of people to the avionics guys selling that new Garmin gadget. :ok:

Great show, already booked out the same B&B for next year, we'll be back! (Hopefully in a faster airplane, Narromine is a long way from Gawler at 90 kt!)

[Jabawocky]

abc news

Passionate pilots gather in Narromine - ABC Western Plains NSW - Australian Broadcasting Corporation (http://www.abc.net.au/local/videos/2012/09/19/3593587.htm)

[girl with a stick]

An amazing event - even for those who slept in a tent and woke up with their eyelashes frozen together.

Worth it just to see the lovely Jabba in a tux.

Splendid fun and the post-Aus Kosh feedback has been immensely positive.

I'm booking (hotel) accomm now for 2013.

GWaS

[Jack Ranga]

Absolutely brilliant Jaba, congratulations, well done :ok:

[OZBUSDRIVER]

"If you build it, they will come"

Can see this venue as the one that finally unites all forms of recreational aviation in this country. :ok:

[baswell]

Can see this venue as the one that finally unites all forms of recreational aviation in this country.
It certainly has potential, but for that to happen, what I would like to see is a single annual event that incorporates RA-Aus and SAAA.

To keep their individual identities, here's my vision: a single site with two "pavilions" (which can be those big event hire temporary structures; one each. Outdoor (mostly aircraft) displays for both "camps" around the best pavilion for them, indoor will no doubt be spread as few supply to only one camp.

Main plaza with catering and entertainment between the two.

I understand the original idea was to have much more RA-Aus involvement, but that didn't really happen. And it probably won't soon, with RA-Aus committing to another 3 years at Temora, but after that, I hope all parties consider teaming up.

For what it's worth, I do prefer the facilities at Temora over the ones at Narromine...

[Spode]

To me there was a lot of RAA involvement. Most of the aircraft dealers seemed to be RAA, and Cirrus. The line of aircraft vendors seemed dominated by the lighter side to me.

The fly in was a mix but mainly GA I suppose.

The vendors in the hangar were the same ones you see anywhere.

I got my RAA fix from this without a problem.

[Tankengine]

I will be trying to get my glider there next year for a flying display as I understand there was minimal glider activity there.:hmm:

[Spode]

To get legs it needs to be family friendly. So does Temora. There wasn't much I could see for kids or non flying partners, and the aircraft were far away, so there was a small area for people to walk around in and not much to see.

Open up the flight line like they do overseas and let people get close to their dreams!

[baswell]

I got my RAA fix from this without a problem.
RA-Aus themselves had a very limited presence, though, which is more what I was referring too.

Although its location doesn't really encourage it, I would like to see an event like this be more welcoming to non-flyers who want to find out more about the options available to them.

[Jack Ranga]

For anybody fortunate to have visited Oshkosh, there 'appears' to be 'no' security, I'm sure there was but it was unobtrusive. You could get as up close and personal as you wanted to any aircraft, military or civil.

What baswell remarked on is very 'Oshkosh' and is a great idea, I'm sure as this event evolves it will be tweaked and refined. Having spoken to a couple of folk, they would like to see the opportunity for not so much separate awards dinners but the ability to award their 'own' without having a massive dinner.

And spod brings up a good point about family friendly. There are ****e loads of things to do around Narromine, a trip to the Western Plains Zoo is well worth the effort. This sort of thing will evolve over time as well, I'm sure. I'm a long way from Narromine but this has people talking, those who missed it are hanging to get there next year!

[VH-XXX]

I think the way it generally works, or the way that it should work, is that if you want people to look at your aircraft, you put it in a touch and feel area and you sit with it, answer questions and talk to people about your aircraft and aircraf in general.

If you don't want people to touch it, park it in the non-touch and feel area and don't hang around it all day.

That being said, Oshkosh is 99% touch and feel with no fences, so it's interesting that the owners are *happy* to potentially have people touching and feeling all day. (I'm happy with touch and feel :O)

[metalman2]

mmmmmm,,,touch 'n' feel,,,,,,noice!

I was chatting to a mate the other day about doing a trip to Longreach next year and having Ausfly as a stop over on the way, any word on dates for next year?
And if anyone is keen on tagging along for a trip from Melbourne to Longreach and back (up through the NSW centre and return coastal) ,PM me, it would be cool to get a bit of a convoy? going
Met

[Frank Arouet]

Quick question without notice;

I'm assuming the plethora of ASIC's hung around various necks was a result of the movement area being declared an air show scene.

If all the airside was security controlled at a generally non security airport and the camping area was distanced from aviators aircraft, and people like me don't normally hang one around my neck, what incentive do I get to go next year. (I drove up this year being only 3 hours away).

If you want touch and feel, the event should be a fly in, not an airshow.

I'm probably wrong as usual.:(

[LeadSled]

what incentive do I get to go next year

Frank,
Probably won't be a problem, from what I hear, there won't be a next year ---- except on a much reduced scale, if at all.
Tootle pip!!

[Jabawocky]

Quote:
what incentive do I get to go next year
Frank,
Probably won't be a problem, from what I hear, there won't be a next year ---- except on a much reduced scale, if at all.
Tootle pip!!

Really? Where did you hear this from?

[Jack Ranga]

Really? Where did you hear this from?

In the old gits queue at the RTA when he was applying to keep his drivers licence :cool:

[Frank Arouet]

None of this has addressed my queries or suggestion.

To put it in more simpler terms, I don't have an ASIC, never have, never will. I could have flown my aircraft up, but a 3 hour drive and a night or two with some mates and out of town accommodation made me drive.

Had I flown, would I have been "pinged" for not having an ASIC, or was it only the near airside that warranted such adornments?

I'm obviously wrong for daring to ask...... as usual.:(

[CHAIRMAN]

Hi Frank, I do have an ASIC but forgot to bring it. In any event, it wasn't needed.
Simply registered and got my wristband, then spent several hours going backwards and forwards through the fence, ogling all the beautifully prepared aerial contrivances in attendance.
Had a great time camping in the allotted area with some mates, handy hot showers. The DAMP put a dampener on camping under the wing, but the option was ours. The lure of a cleansing nightcap or two made the decision easy.

[Frank Arouet]

Thanks for the response CHAIRMAN.

I was prompted to ask out of my confusion that it was a Fly In, not an Airshow. See the first post on this thread reproduced below;


AUSFLY 2012 Narromine NSW 13-16 September
The Australian Aviation scene has been longing for an Oshkosh inspired kind of fly in, we have Natfly for the light end of the scale, Avalon for the heavy metal, but the vast majority of private and sport aviation has had nothing to serve as an annual get together, sharing of knowledge and education, exhibition of latest products and some all round good entertainment and fostering of goodwill.

Several major private and sport GA groups have gotten together or are supporting this launch of what could become the annual fly in for all private and sport pilots, be they a drifter, gyro, glider, warbird, ballon, certified C152 to Beech B200 or anywhere inbetween pilot/owner.

This thread is to be an information resource, so please keep the posts on topic.

For details and information as they unfold, please keep an eye on www.ausfly.com.au (http://www.ausfly.com.au/)

If you are reading this, consider yourself invited!

[Jabawocky]

Frank, I never had my ASIC out of my bag all weekend. Those that had them on were the CASA folk who wear their ID for official purposes, or such like. That is the most likely form of professional ID many folk have.

I really do not know what on earth you are going about. It looks to me like you are struggling to find something to whinge about, in which case that is a great sign that it was a good event. From talking to those who ran the event, the degree of improvements planned for next year will address many of the improvements asked for, so all in all I can't wait! Leadsled is clearly confused :rolleyes:

So I take it you actually enjoyed it for what it was.

If you wanted to go airside, all you had to do was register by flying in, or if you drove in go to the registration point and get an arm band, provided they were confident you were aviation hazard aware i.e. were a pilot or LAME or similar, you could get an arm band. This was just to stop the average Joe Public from wandering around aimlessly and in danger. For those folk there were organised tours. And they were very popular for the kids, who are the ones we should be focussed on, not all us older folk.

Chairman and myself had a good weekend :ok: I assume the others did too.

[Frank Arouet]

I didn't intend for anybody to read too much into what I thought was a reasonable question.

I'm getting too old to say I am awestruck by airshows anymore, but what I saw was pleasant. I enjoyed the Wirraway aero's even if they lacked some accuracy. But who am I to criticise. It was a nice show in contrast to the rapid snap manouvers of Pitts etc. The fourth blade turning past the Grumman pilot's windscreen was equal to my weekly income if it was sucking fuel at the time.

Please take this in the spirit in which it was posted as it's important for people like me who's opposition to the ASIC can only be demonstrated by not having one. I don't want to get done over by any Gestapo jackboots because of a misunderstanding about any peculiar airside rules. Indeed I cannot fly in to just any airport these days.

The CASA flock were a definite turn off if you need any criticism that is not constructive. But even they know that.

[RV6]

Hi Frank
In response to your reasonable question, there was no requirement for an ASIC at Narromine. It is not a security controlled airport, and that did not change during Ausfly. As others have stated, the only security was that imposed by the event organisers to prevent accidental contact between turning props and members of the public. Any one who could convince the registration team that they had a pilot licence or certificate was given a wristband and allowed airside.

I did see some of the CASA guys wearing ASICs, and perhaps other pilots did so to ensure they got airside access, but they were certainly not required. I take issue with your comment about the CASA guys - every time I looked, PJ was there helping, with a broom in his hand or carting tables and chairs. Couldn't have been more helpful and that was really appreciated by the organisers.

We all plan to be there next year - not sure where you got your negative info Leadie! Why do you think we didn't put a date on the Ausfly T shirts ;)

Cheers

RV6

[Frank Arouet]

I can't be more subtle with my question and irrespective of "air displays" as opposed to "airshows" and "fly-in's" that may or may not take place at Temora or, Narromine. I was hit up for a "parking fee" based on $5.00 per person, not per car which makes it an "airshow".

It was advertised as a "fly-in" on a pilot's website which is OK up until the entry fee.

Think about it before you come back, I'm on your side. But you have air blowing up your collective cracks if you think attacking the messenger is more important than doing your homework.

Oh, yes. the CASA! ("we're here to help you"). I'll bring a broom if it will help, but I need to know what part of grey area I am tresspassing before I fly in.

Where do you think I got information enough to attempt to alert you guy's?

Hint....... Canberra.

[Bushmongrel]

Hey Frank
Five dollars per person to get in.You poor bugger. I paid over 3 dollars a litre for avgas at Forrest. I then paid 10 dollars pilot registration fee. I reckon it worth every cent it cost me to get there!!!! I am happy to fly there again next year even if it ten hours flying there and back. I say well done to the SAAA and all the other people that made it happen!!!!!:D:D

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Francis, you realy are a sad individual!

If I knew something was about to occur I think I would pass that information on so those concerned can mend a few bridges before the fun police do get involved.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

So, what is this new Garmin gadget please?
Is it 'dinosaur' user-friendly?

Sent from my 'new' I-pad....catching up....sort of...

:ok:

[Frank Arouet]

Five dollars per person to get in.You poor bugger

You don't get it do you?

If one paid 1 cent entry it changes the rules regarding a fly in.

I'm informed an "air display" permit was issued, the same as the Temora mob on flying weekends, but the Museum only charges for access to the shop and hangar- not the aerodrome.

I'm sure those responsible for the event are aware of any impending bridge collapses.

[Jack Ranga]

I'm getting too old to say I am awestruck by airshows anymore

I thought that once too......;)

[Pharcarnell]

Just to add a bit to the confusion, I think the 5 bucks was the "Parking" charge not actually access to the site.
You could walk in for nix.

[Frank Arouet]

I'm not even being cryptic any more and I urge readers to look and read the past comments.

The "parking charge" was $5 per person. I know one bloke who parked with only him in the car= $5. Saw another with 4 pob= $20, me, $10.

Do you get the drift? That's an admission charge for people, not for parking a car. The cash is a donation as far as I'm concerned, but you can't charge admission to a fly-in as per the invitation at the start of this thread.

End of discussion.

[Jetjr]

Wouldnt it depend who was charging the fee?, Local council, VRA, other local charity?
The council is pretty keen to recover any costs it can for looking after the Airfield and facilities.

[Jabawocky]

Find a new topic would ya!

The fact it was a terrific job done by the AOPA, AWAL & SAAA and more orgs next year the better.

I'll be back 100% guaranteed.

Anyone got any good pics or video to upload? :ok:

After the last two days we could all do with a positive uplift don't you think!

[LeadSled]

Really? Where did you hear this from? In the old gits queue at the RTA when he was applying to keep his drivers licence http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/cool.gif

Jack,
Straight from the horse's mouth, and not from a horse's posterior, where your remarks come from.

The fact that RAOz were not really welcome is rather silly, just how you have an Oshkosh in Australia with the great political divide between RAOz (fast approaching the majority of private operations hours) and SAAA has got me tossed.

The problem is NOT with AWAL and AOPA, it is the long standing (since the inception of the AUF) divide between RAOz and SAAA is the problem.

As a fly-in, there have been almost as many GA aircraft at several NatFly's at Narromine as there were at Ausfly. As a fly-in Ausfly must be judged as a success, but as a base to build on, with the present politics, ?????

Including the post Ausfly washup.

A major national event built around NatFly has a lot more practical chance of success. If you don't understand the history of "SAAA v. The Rest" you will not understand the basis of my comments.

Tootle pip!!

[Jack Ranga]

Straight from the horse's mouth

I'll bet you my left nut ole son that I'm just as close to the 'horses mouth' as you purport to be.

Yes the industry is in a bit of strife but after attending an airshow overseas and seeing how it should be done I'm re-enthused brutha! Stop being such a f@cking misery guts, be part of the solution not a whingeing old bastard.

I happened to meet a couple of CASA doods at the airshow I spoke of. Most of you here will whinge about them getting a 'free trip' me? I think it was money well spent having them see how aviation pumps over there. The economy over there is diabolical yet the show that was put on was bloody amazing!

If you build it they will come and come they did, that's what they are doing at Narromine..........I believe brutha, I believe :D

[Jack Ranga]

And just to add, when the industry over there faces a challenge or a bad decision, they actually GET OFF THEIR FARKING ARSES AND DO SOMETHING, whinging is at a minimum, action a premium.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

'Tis all a very different 'attitude' over there JR....and IT SHOWS - in the 'Aviation Industry' economy.
The rest of it is shot....

Even L'il ole NZ is different to us and CASA!!!

Could you imagine a 'Wanaka' style show being held over here??

Enjoy the next one!
:ok:

[DBTW]

Great weekend organisers! Here is what AOPA has to say about it.

AOPA Online : Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association of Australia (http://www.aopa.com.au/information-centre/aopa-news/2012/09/18/ausfly-an-outstanding-success-aopa-says/)

AUSFLY, the fly-in event for general aviation aircraft and pilots, was held over the weekend of 14-16 September at Narromine, NSW. The event was organised by the Sport Aircraft Association of Australia (SAAA) and co-supported by the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association of Australia (AOPA) and the Australian Warbirds Association (AWAL).

AOPA President Andrew Andersen praised the event as an enormous success. “More than 350 general aviation aircraft flew in for the inaugural AUSFLY event”, Andrew said. "It surpassed our expectations and we are ecstatic about the warm welcome and friendship extended to us by the SAAA at their home airport”. As a major co-supporter, AOPA contributed extensive advertising of the event in the Australian Pilot magazine, as well as by e-mail and through its website.

“It’s clear that many AOPA members responded to our call and took part in a fun, safe and educational weekend.” Andrew said. “We’ve had many comments in support of our involvement and look forward to joining again with leading GA organisations at the next AUSFLY event”

As well as its role in publicising the event, AOPA also coordinated the delivery of aviation safety seminars for all attendees with the support of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA). Along with other personnel, CASA provided expert aviation safety advisors.

AUSFLY also featured many other learning opportunities covering engine operation and technology, avionics, the latest iPad products for flight planning, and amateur sport aircraft builders.

Many attendees camped at least one night at Narromine Airport, where AUSFLY was held. The Narromine Council, which is very forward-thinking about general aviation, strongly supported the event and the demand for accommodation flowed over to the nearby regional centre of Dubbo.

“The excellent facilities at Narromine and near-perfect weather have made for a memorable event”, Andrew said.

Much of the event was supported by a small army of volunteers. Particularly notable was the outstanding UNICOM service provided by three volunteer air traffic controllers, who gave their time freely and provided an advisory service for aircraft arriving, departing and taking part in the airshow events and display flights.

An exhibit hall provided space to commercial businesses to market and promote aviation products including aircraft insurance, accessories, software, propellers and other components, avionics and new sport and business aircraft. Several exhibitors indicated that they regarded the event as a commercial success, with sales and prospective customers in abundance thanks to the large attendance.

In his address to 250 attendees at the event gala dinner, Andrew Andersen highlighted the importance of GA organisations working together. “There is a certain esprit among aviators, and those who have come to AUSFLY are no exception. We all share the sky, we all deal with the weather and we are all enthusiastic about our flight experience and opportunities ahead.” Andrew said.

“It’s easy to be dominated by half-informed emotional negativity. Doing is harder than complaining. AOPA is working hard to represent the interests of everyone actively involved in general aviation. We appreciate immensely the support of our members and the friendship of great kindred organisations such as SAAA and AWAL.” he concluded.

for more information about AOPA, and its role in the AUSFLY event, e-mail [email protected] or call 02 9791 9099.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Hey Leadsled - Bill, I just spoke to the person who organized the event (in charge of organising at least - many people contributed i am sure) and he reckons he's never spoken to you...and that you are full of $hit.

So stop stirring.

[LeadSled]

Folks,

I guess next year will tell the story, and see who is right and who is wrong. Whether it is the same, expanded or contracts next year.

To suggest that Ausfly, this year, was representative of an "industry" is really stretching it a bit, unless it was an example of a sector of aviation in crisis, which is close to the real world situation. The trade presence was sparse.

While the great division between RA Oz aircraft and "the rest" continues, and the "traditional GA" supporters continue to regard RA Oz as not quite legitimate, we have no hope of even having a pale imitation of Oshkosh.

As for being part of the answer, I have made my views well enough known, in all the appropriate venues, over many years, and anybody who actually knows me, knows I am not "part of the problem". It sound to me like a few posters here are a bit short on history, which bedevils this whole issue. And a bit short on the history of how Natfly came to stay and greatly expand at Narromine, before a much changed (for the worse) local council was outbid by Temora.

In fact, the nastiness of some of the posts directed at me, for having the temerity to suggest other that all is not well with the aviation world, just illustrates one of the problems in Australian aviation. You simply do not see such knee jerk vilification on equivalent web sites in NZ or other parts of the world.

On a separate but closely related issue, I am of the opinion that the policy positions being taken by SAAA and some in CASA has the potential to seriously restrict amateur building and take us back to 101.28 like days. The mandatory maintenance qualification, that has nothing to do with actual maintenance of amateur built aircraft, but is all about often irrelevant administration and paperwork, with a hefty price tag attached, including mandatory membership of SAAA is, I fear, the first tangible example of this trend.

We are rapidly departing from the freedoms brought by Part 21 in 1998, and returning to a more regulated environment, all without any justification, other than this is "The Australian Way".

Tootle pip!!

PS: There was more than "one organizer" of Ausfly, and as for the AOPA statement, what did you expect Andrew to say, given the major contribution by AOPA, made with high but entirely reasonable hopes??

As I have previously posted, Ausfly should be regarded as a success for a first up, but future years? We will see.

Who read the SAAA "press release" after the event, AWAL and AOPA didn't even rate a mention ---- what does that tell you??

[Jabawocky]

Leadie

What SAAA press release? Are you talking about Martin Ongleys President newsletter that is emailed out to the SAAA members?

I did a EDIT/FIND and entered AOPA, the first hit in a 5 page PDF came up with this, and I quote.....

The dinner was attended by various dignitaries both from the local Narromine area as well as leaders of our sporting aviation groups. It was great to have members from AWAL, AOPA, RAAus and the SAAA all together under the one roof. Once the wine and plane stories started flowing, you couldn’t hear yourself think. A big thanks to the local caterer for the splendid food and for David Brown who stepped up to the plate to MC for the evening.
The guest speakers were all marvelous & had us laughing and crying with their aviation tales. Live music was by Ellen, Travis & Andrew - the only complaint was that there wasn’t enough of them playing and some of us missed their performance completely due to the raucous behaviour in the queue at the bar.


Ohhh and the BOLDING was in the newsletter, not mine, so jam that in ya pipe mate!

Now onto the bit about, who was involved....you clearly have no clue at the truth. The major paties contributed what they were able to, where their respective strengths were, and I can tell you for a fact all the financial underwriting was done by SAAA. The generous help of the major contributors (including AOPA) and sponsors was mind blowing. And yet again you would not have a clue.

It is a shame you did not get to hear the speech by the (our - I am a member there too)AOPA president. You should be proud of his great work :ok:

On a separate but closely related issue, I am of the opinion that the policy positions being taken by SAAA and some in CASA has the potential to seriously restrict amateur building and take us back to 101.28 like days.

Now you are correct, this is a seperate matter, but it is TOTALLY UNRELATED, The only relation is SAAA being the underwriting contributor to AUSFLY. And a closing comment there, once again you have no idea what you are talking about.

The rest of your paragraph The mandatory maintenance qualification, that has nothing to do with actual maintenance of amateur built aircraft, but is all about often irrelevant administration and paperwork, with a hefty price tag attached, including mandatory membership of SAAA is, I fear, the first tangible example of this trend.


Well that shows a distinct lack of understanding of what really is going on. Have you attended an MPC course? The answer is no, so lets move along, the vast majority of those who have, like me, found it often a dry subject matter, because it is, but we all learned many things that not only may make a difference in maintenance safety, but also retain value in our aircraft. Would you buy an aircraft with poorly or non existent maintenance records or details? No way.

Mandatory SAAA membership, no it is not mandatory to be or keep membership with your MPC, unlike AWAL or RAAus which is mandatory. So you are wrong again. The SAAA has a requirement for attendees to be covered by SAAA insurance, and for that they need to be a member. Simple as that. If you want to do a MPC course from another approved training organisation that is fine with CASA and SAAA, go for it. Heck start one yourself!

Once again you have been found out to be wrong, starting muck raking and serving no useful purpose to anything constructive. Telling mistruths is not something a person of high stature like yourself should be doing. I hate to say this but I do not sit here advising QANTAS on how they should structure all their internal flight operations departments, maintenance and training programmes, so how about you stick to what you know, and I will stick to what I know. I will try not to be an expert in your back yard in return ;)

Hefty price tag? You have got to be kidding, if it were in 1972, yes, but in 2012, you are kidding. In fact it is done for too little. The price should be higher, and for the long term members in particular. I paid too little. I would like to see you tell George Braly or Walter Atkinson they charge too much a hefty price for their course :}:} It is only slightly more, but that includes some meals. Interesting to note, all of the airline guys I have spoken to about the MPC actually rave about it, we think they are sick twisted individuals, but surprisingly they gained a lot and appreciated its worth. I could dig up written quotes, but you can just trust me.:ok:

On a closing note, and this will be the end of the debate on this thread at least, what I saw recently was a VH registered Jabiru ramped in Qld, the MR was 3 years out of date, when the CASA FOI asked have you done an MPC and the response was, whats that? It just proved one thing to me. Being someone who wants to enjoy extra privileges from the experimental category, it is your responsibility to stay up to speed. And the best way to do that is be a member of the organisation that best represents that group. Wouldn't you agree that being a SAAA member would have provided much education material over time on the owners responsibilities, the need for education on Maintenance Proceedures, and having up to date MR's?

I guess it is OK for AWAL membership to be compulsory. I guess it is OK for RAAus membership to be compulsory. I guess it is just fortunate that my AOPA and SAAA membership is voluntary and I pay all of them without being a tight arsed miserable sod like some folk do.

Now go focus your energies where they will do some good, and stop white anting the good work done by so many others with comments that are so far from accurate and are factually incorrect. :ugh:

Thread drift OFF!






Hey Griffo.......... Now that we have that all sorted, the garmin gadget is the GLO
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=109827&ra=true
:ok:

[VH-XXX]

Natfly came to stay and greatly expand at Narromine, before a much changed (for the worse) local council was outbid by Temora.


The Council didn't even bother to submit their response to the "tender" so being "out-bid" is a bit of a stretch there Bill. Their complacency cost them dearly so luckily Ausfly filled the gap to an extent.

[Jack Ranga]

and he reckons he's never spoken to you...and that you are full of $hit.

:D:D:D:}:}:}

Jesus Chuck :ugh: Another farked keyboard

[LeadSled]

Wouldn't you agree that being a SAAA member would have provided much education material over time on the owners responsibilities, the need for education on Maintenance Proceedures,(sic) and having up to date MR's?

Jaba,
I am all in favour of meaningful education, what I object strongly to is a situation where a legislative instrument is used to guarantee a cash flow to SAAA.

The EAA in the US does a wonderful job, all without regulatory compulsion. The services it make available to members doesn't need the force of law (and threats of two years goal/jail) for people to take up what they need. It is all about personal responsibility, and if some clown has a way illegal aircraft, jump on him or her with both feet --- don't impose on the law abiding.

By why, now, after all the years since 1998, with no demonstrated problem, and all the freedoms of the US system, are we regressing, this is the most visible step.

Whether you know it or not, there are those who are proposing that continues validity of your maintenance authority for your pride and joy will require continued membership of SAAA.

This is the sort of thing that inhibited amateur building in Australia before 1998, it would be a tragedy for the movement to regress, but it is happening.

No, I have not done the course, but I do k now the history of the course, where it originated, as an anomaly with a small group who refused to have anything to do with post-1998 rules, you should find out the history.

As for the course content, there is nothing in it with which I am not very familiar, and hence I am able to say two things, firstly, every amateur builder with whom I am closely acquainted ( and that's quite a few) has already developed a good working knowledge of the administrative needs of their project, and secondly, secondly, what is applicable to amateur builders (and that's not much) doesn't need a mandatory course.

For example, what in the name of common sense has ICAO Annex VIII got to do with amateur building, beyond the "nice to know, but not need to know" knowledge that it is completely inapplicable.

Back to Ausfly, I hope it succeeds, but the odds are against it ---- so far not one of you has commented about the gulf between RAOz and "GA". Given the small size of the whole aviation sector, and the shrinking GA, not one of you has suggested joining forces for a truly all inclusive national show, one a year, might be a good idea.

It works at Oshkosh and Sun and Fun (even in the US, Sun and Fun is in trouble)

[Jabawocky]

Refer PM, this thread has been ruined enough, and maybe a moderator will clean it up a little.

Back to posts about all that was good about it :ok:

[LeadSled]

Jaba,
What's the problem, seems you prefer censorship to freedom of speech??
Tootle pip!!

[Jabawocky]

No, this is not the thread to debate all sorts of silly ill-informed opinions of yours regarding SAAA and MPC courses.

Read your PM and get off this topic on this thread. I am going hit the ignore button very soon. You are trying my patience and my email and phone sms's from all the ppruners I know that are also sick of your thread destruction suggest I am not the one with a problem here.

You baiting me further will only get these sorts of replies. Its over Leadie, thread destruction is OVER mate!

Back to normal viewing folks :ok:

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Leadsled, you have form here and you are fast running out of associations that are prepared to have you. Do you realy want to poop in their nest too?

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Thanks Bloke.....appreciated!!

:ok:

[Jabawocky]

No wukkers! :ok:

Hey start planning now, bring the baby over, make a trek of it! ;)

[Jack Ranga]

Yeah Griffo, when you have a look at the challenges being faced over there and the way they approach them, puts us to shame!

Thing is, there are a bunch of people here in Australia that are taking up the challenge and are building something, AND THEY ARE DOING IT VOLUNTARILY! As opposed to a bunch of egomaniacs who flew around the country in first class stroking their egos.

Bravo boys :D Nothing but praise for what you all achieved!

[AUSFLY 2012]

http://www.planecrazydownunder.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/AusFly-Radio-Logo.jpg

http://www.planecrazydownunder.com/2012/10/06/pcdu-episode-94-ausfly-together-under-one-sky/ (http://www.planecrazydownunder.com/2012/10/06/pcdu-episode-94-ausfly-together-under-one-sky/)

[LeadSled]

---- you are fast running out of associations that are prepared to have you.Oz,
A bit ill-informed, old fruit.
The only association I have ever quit was the SAAA, back in 1995, because of the policies they were following. I am still a member of all the other association, of which I was a member at that time, plus a few more since.
And just to keep the record straight, in any association of which I have been a director or elected officer, I have never been defeated in an election.
Stick to the facts.
Tootle pip!!