single runway ops in mel

[ejectx3]

A question for any Melbourne atc pruners....

With a northerly of any significance blowing across ymml, the airport is configured to r/w 34 only, causing lengthy departure delays.

The other day, with 340/15-25 in dry conditions, facing a queue of 8 aircraft ahead of me to depart , I asked why we couldn't use 27 as
it was well below my crosswind limit.

The response was "airspace issues prevent its use in a northerly"

This makes no sense to me as often 27 and 34 are used together.

Can someone help me understand why we are prevented from departing off 27 in a strong northerly?

[nitpicker330]

Well that's bull be because they are well setup to use 27 and 34 for simultanious departures.

That's why they hold you up at 6,000' joining downwind for 34, allows departures off 27 up to 5,000'.

I've seen this configuration quite a lot.

[ejectx3]

Indeed it's a common YMML config. Yes 34 is the preferred into wind runway but when 27 is still usable I don't understand why it is not available on request if the xwind is acceptable to you.

I get that above a nominal xwind on 27, 34 becomes the preferred runway but with 20 minute queues for takeoff using only 34, surely a few off 27 would help.

Especially when were departing for YPAD....straight out to the west and no need to cut back over 34's departure track

ATC?

[Gin Jockey]

Who f^%kn cares? Just sit there and wait your turn. There's heaps of sh&t in aviation that makes no sense. The less time you spend worrying about stuff that has no impact on your REAL life, the more time you have to actually enjoy your REAL life...

I used to fret about stuff like getting slowed down/holding then getting sped up, etc etc, really though, is it worth it? Go with the flow bro...

[Capn Bloggs]

Bad things happen when good men do nothing, Gin Jockey. :=

[ejectx3]

Wow I was just asking a question. Calm down man!

Trying to understand the system I work under every time I fly doesn't have any bearing on whether I enjoy my life ffs! Are you insane?

[Wally Mk2]

........might be a little too much 'gin' in someones gin me thinks!:-):)

Perhaps & this just an opinion but with dep's going off both 34 & 27 at once the OEI proc for us off both 27 & 34 is to turn left due Sth, this action would cross other A/C's normal initial departures & some arrivals to Rwy 34. Just a thought but either way am sure the guy in the Twr doesn't make those decisions himself.
I wouldn't want to be an ATC'er for all the tea in China but here in Oz the guys/gals have it fairly easy compared to OS.
I just luv PH,one could have a full 3 course meal sometimes at the holding point waiting ya turn:ok:

Wmk2

[mikk_13]

but here in Oz the guys/gals have it fairly easy compared to OS.

Other way round mate.

[nitpicker330]

You've obviously never flown into Indonesia or India or the Philippines or Vietnam then!! :mad::D

Australian ATC have some of the best equipment and facilities in the world combined with very low terrain, generally fair wx ( compare to North America ) and very good Pilot standards in Australian ( and some OS Carriers )

Aussie ATCO's haven't really got too much to complain about!! :ok:

[TOUCH-AND-GO]

Interesting you brought this topic up. Just last week I was talking among pilots and a mate training at the Melbourne ATC center about this.

Frankly they don't know the answer either! :}

We also...well I brought up the scenario that if the wind was blowing across YMML at 050/15-25 knots why not simply use Rwy 09 for takeoffs for aircraft departing to the east-north east :confused:

The response was "airspace issues prevent its use in a northerly" Load of Bull:mad:!! as I've seen aircraft depart and arrive on both runways on days were the wind was varying 300-330/10-15 knots!

Oh well! Call up Melbourne ATC and ask them? :E

[ejectx3]

Well I spoke to a very helpful chap just then. Anything more than 20 xwind on 27 knots dry and they switch to 34 only as policy. With all arrivals on 34, the airspace west of ymml is used for arrivals for 34, usually descended lower than 6000 to enable close visual approaches to 34.

20 knots seems a bit G.A. To me but that's what it is.

[ejectx3]

ThAnkyou for that info

[A Comfy Chair]

ejectx3, Re: the 20kts being low - its actually higher than the ICAO recommendation of 15kts already. So it could be worse... :E

[Woodwork]

Melbourne APP/DEP change their airspace configuration based on duty runway nomination. Not every configuration is compatible with non-duty departures or arrivals.

Although 15-25KTS might seem fine to you, the MATS says:
Do not nominate a runway for use when:

Completely dry:
Crosswind exceeds 20 KT including gusts
Downwind exceeds 5 KT including gusts

Not completely dry:
Crosswind exceeds 20 KT including gusts
There is a downwind component

Exception:

You may nominate a runway when crosswind or downwind exceeds the specifications of 12‐15‐230 if:
a. required by noise abatement legislation
b. an alternative runway does not exist or
c. a take‐off or landing, as applicable, is not possible on an alternative runway.

Further, the YMML noise abatement rules have a preferred runway mode for high-capacity landings in which 34 is the only available runway for departures. (Refer YMML DAP entry, Noise Abatement Procedures, pg 1).

Either or both of these factors could have conspired to keep you queued for 34.