Hour-building in USA & Renter's Insurance

[clearpr0p]

Dear all,

I have been doing a bit of research myself but I guess many heads are better than one. Would be grateful if anybody with knowledge on USA could lend a hand.

Flying Club To hour-Build:
I'm all sorted visa/airman certificate wise etc and now looking for a flying school to allow me to hour build in the USA at a good price, with a legacy cockpit aircraft, preferably PA28 but have considered C172. I was hoping to do a fly-tour of the southern states for 30 hours

I did have a good school in mind but advertised costs were not the same as the quote when I went into the detail. The other two schools EASA/NAC I seem to come across discouraging feedback although their headline prices for hour building looks attractive.

Are there any schools you have used you can recommend?

Non Owner Renters Insurance: :ooh:
The links provided by US schools forward me to application forms which only seem to consider US residents. I dropped an email to a UK company who suggested US companies in the state I would be operating would be more suitable.

Can anyone advise how they handled/purchased their renter's insurance please.

thanks very much for your help everyone.

cheers,

[banjodrone]

I seem to remember AOPA do provide various insurance policies.

Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (http://www.aopa.org)

[clearpr0p]

Hi Banjodrone, thanks for your pointer. I had checked out AOPA but unless I'm missing a trick their online quote seemed US orientated only; their drop-down boxes only had US states on offer, and the call back option did not allow me to input a UK number.

[mad_jock]

usually the school you reant off will be able to sort it for you.

Stay away from the JAR schools is my advice. They all have there quota of shanagins and they have to get there 3 week ppl's through so getting an aircraft can be a pain.

Tailwheels in Winterhaven might be worth a try. Winterhaven is pretty central so you can get virtually anywhere. You can also do tail wheel and if you fancy a shot of a float Jackbrowns is just next door.

Personally if I had to do it all again I wouldnt go to florida. Alaska is on my list of places to go I don;t know how viable that would be.

[zondaracer]

AOPA US probably doesn't let you put in a UK number because AOPA UK is a separate division to handle UK members, however I don't know what services AOPA UK offers, and I don't know if they offer rental insurance for flying in the UK.

Welcome to AOPA UK (http://www.aopa.co.uk/)

Look at it this way, some flying schools in the US offer heir own insurance of you pay extra for each flying hour. If they offer you $10 per hour or more for the insurance, it comes out more expensive than getting AOPA's yearly coverage for renting in the US.

AOPA Insurance Agency +1 (800) 622-AOPA (2672)
AOPA Aircraft Insurance (http://www.aopaia.com/index.cfm?parm1=Contact%20Us)

[Fanor]

Check out traffords insurance. Prices are good and services are good. Used them last year when I was in orlando

[clearpr0p]

Zonda,

thanks, the telephone number was brilliant. I gave AOPA a call and have a good idea of how to sort this. Cheers.

To anyone else reading this thread, also looking for this info like I was, the really pleasant chap on the end of the line directed me to the relevant part of their website;

AOPA Aircraft Insurance (http://www.aopaia.com/renters_start.cfm#)

Thanks everyone for your kind help,:ok:


Limits of Liability
AOPA Member
Discount Premium * Non AOPA Member
Premium * Additional Premium
for employer as
Additional Insured **
Each Occurrence Per Passenger
250,000 25,000 81 86 50
500,000 50,000 109 116 50
500,000 100,000 172 181 50
1,000,000 100,000 209 220 50
Optional Coverage for damage to non-owned aircraft

This coverage provides you protection against claims for damage to the non-owned aircraft, including its loss of use. This coverage is optional and can only be purchased if Bodily Injury and Property Damage Coverage above has been purchased.

Coverage Options
Limit of Liability AOPA Member
Discount Premium * Non AOPA Member
Premium *
5,000 94 99
10,000 166 175
20,000 238 250
30,000 333 350
40,000 428 450
60,000 570 600
80,000 736 775
100,000 926 975
150,000 1,354 1,425

[B2N2]

Here's the flyer for Alexander Aviation renters insurance:
http://www.alexanderaviation.com/documents/rentersinsurance.pdf

[sevenstrokeroll]

do study the weather for the southern states and compare it with your timetable...and old timer advice...in the summer...fly early...really early in the day...be done before one pm local

this to avoid thunderstorms.

in the winter...fly late...this to allow runway clearing of snow.

I wouldn't do the deep south...but that's just my opinion.

I would stay in the northern cities/states...

[this is my username]

I used AVEMCO for my renters insurance. Couldn't do it online (due to not being a US citizen) so had to call them. Used the flight school address where necessary.

[grafity]

Hi Guys,

Just wondering what kind of liability you took out is there any need to go for the 1M/100k or could you safely enough bump that down to 500k/50k?

Thanks in advance.

[PiperDriver86]

Chandler Air Service in Arizona. They sort out renter's insurance on site.
PA-28's all around. Also C172 and some tailwheels and biplanes.

Great place and instructors, very professional. Won't let you just take an airplane though. Will have to get cleared by CFI for the aircraft and mountain flying (which is normally included in private license course).

And Arizona is a great place to fly. Within easy reach of Grand Canyon, Las Vegas and whole of California.

Also had a great lesson on density altitude everytime I flew. Sometimes climbing 200 ft/min in PA-28 with half tanks and instructor and me only :\

[grafity]

Looks like a great place, I'm in San Francisco this time but I'll probably be coming back for more hour building, might be worth a look. Thanks for the info.

[Haka99]

Hi PiperDriver86, I am thinking about using Chandler Air Services for some hour building in April, can you comment on the condition of their fleet in general and how well maintained they are? I have been to some schools in the US where often planes go tech and with limited 2 week timeframe for me being there, would be good to go to a place with well maintained aircraft.

Also wondering how busy it is at the school in anyone's experience?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[clearpr0p]

Hi all, I saw this thread and thought it looked awfully familiar! So here's my feedback from my experiences to help out anyone following in my footsteps:

I ended up doing all my hour building with Chandler. I chose Chandler because I wanted experience specifically on the PA28 and in Arizona but from my research, I know there are cheaper hours available, in particular C150s - (look for clubs based in states that do not tax aviation fuel-there are a few!) but Chandler is still definitely competitive as far as PA28 rates go.

Chandler do include renters insurance so damage to their aircraft is covered. I was still a little unsure as to who would be liable if there was third party damage so took some out as well. That said, there is not much to crash into as the terrain outside Phoenix is quite sparse. I found renter's insurance to be quite reasonable and for the sake of a few dollars, I think a lot of people do err on the side of caution just for piece of mind...it is America after all. Sure there is the "it'll never happen to me school of thought" but ironically my travelling companion got bitten by a spider and a visit to hospital set him back about Gbp 500 for a nurse's appointment and some drugs. Luckily he had travel insurance!

Not to digress, the aircraft are fine. They are dated but well maintained and perfectly acceptable for VFR flying. IFR instruments may leave a little to be desired for on some aircraft. I think they had a fleet of about 8 working PA28s of which 3-4 are Garmin equipped too which is handy if you are worried about negotiating unfamiliar airspace.

The instructors there are first class, all very experienced professionals who know their stuff and instruct for a career. If you do head up there, theres a brilliant man called Kurt. He's very quintessentially American with a brilliant moustache and a fantastic character.

I did my hour building in June when it was really hot -typically 40-45 celsius making flying less pleasant but the upside is aircraft availability was great. I understand the peak season is in the winter months. If flying in summer beware the air density is an issue. You would be lucky to squeeze in 2 heavy people into a PA28 and expect reasonable climb performance and you need to be extra cautious in the north where density altitude is quite high. There is a mountain checkout but to be honest, in hindsight and despite being a 200hr pilot at the time, I am glad I had an experienced friend who knew the area on board because it is hard to appreciate exactly how hazardous negotiating the terrain can be- combine this with mountain waves around Flagstaff and the adrenaline does get going-you always need to be alert for an out if the situation goes pear-shaped but if you take it seriously, and practice good airmanship, weight & balance and performance planning etc you'll be fine.

The only possible negative with Chandler may be that they are keen to keep the aircraft close to base and are not too keen on overnights which is understandable-I don't recall anyone doing overnights in the 3 weeks i was there. But, I was more interested in building hours rapidly and getting to know the local terrain better-there is still a fair bit to see, so that wasn't a problem for me. Also, the airspace over the grand canyon (2.5 hour flight each way) is quite restrictive and very busy so do your research first and purchase a sectional and plan your trip ahead so you know what to expect if flying over the grand canyon is a key reason why you're choosing Arizona.

Otherwise, Arizona is a very pleasant and easy place to fly around. There are numerous small airfields/strips/airports and nowhere in the USA charges landing fees! If you're a bit more adventurous, you can fly up towards Page/Lake Powell which is beautiful. I also visited Tucson international just to have a go at landing at an international airport. To be honest, its a bit like a Bournemouth!

I had a great time at Chandler and they were able to accommodate my hour building needs to a tight timetable well. I do recommend them.

My only bit of advice, make sure you have your accommodation and car rental sorted out thoroughly in advance. Prices vary quite a bit and can make the difference money wise as to whether you would have been financially better off remaining in UK. I did 45 hours though so it was a no-brainer.

All the best with your flying,

[DiamondC]

I took out travel insurance with Besso which includes cover for private aircraft rental: Insurance Services from Besso Insurance Group Limited (http://www.besso.co.uk/) Besso were efficient and friendly in getting the insurance organised, fortunately I didn't find out what they were like if a claim was necessary. The policy had some optional add-ons (I took out the flying-related ones) and some exclusions. I looked at about 10 insurers who said they covered flying but most of them had lots of exclusions. Traffords and Besso seemed to provide the best cover for flying.

For others looking at this thread re Chandler Air Services, I did some flying with Chandler a few weeks ago and would recommend them. Details are here: http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/476677-cheap-hour-building-2.html#post7672995