RAAF Selects C27J Aircraft...

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

I hear that the RAAF have selected the C27J 'Spartan' as the new 'Battlefield Airlifter'.
10 of, so they say.

Good decision / not so good decision?? How say you ??

Cheers:ok:

[Ndegi]

Having seen the Spartan perform at two Avalons, it looks a great and very capable aircraft. Pity about the sour grapes culture from the CASA manufacturers trying to undermine the RAAF decision.

[blackhand]

Good decision / not so good decision??
Well at the least it's a decision, finally!
And will do the job.

[Trojan1981]

Main thread here:

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/472216-c27s-coming.html :ok:

[jas24zzk]

Only 10?

WTF..not even a traditional squadron.

4 c-117's? wtf how about at least a dozen!

[FoxtrotAlpha18]

Apparently when asked abou their failed bid, Airbus Mil people have been telling international journos currently visiting Madrid that...

"The customer is always right, even when the customer is wrong"!

Way to win future business...NOT! :hmm:

[jas24zzk]

Maybe not...maybe we are saving pennies for A400's!!! Might be enough to keep the scarebuse people happy with the prospective order

<dance>

[damo1089]

Is that the one that did a barrel roll after takeoff at avalon

[Shagpile]

I saw it at the Dubai Airshow. It was the most impressive aircraft display all day.

They took off into a barrel roll, did a series of looping manoeuvres that I thought were impossible until I saw them. Including a full loop at low level.

The most impressive display item was the full left rudder turn. They yawed probably 80 degrees in one kick, flew sideways then accelerated out of it (away from the crowd line). When they were flying (nearly) sideways, you could see all the controls at full deflection. An engine failure would have surely ended up with a smoking hole in the ground.

The RAAF needs to make sure it doesn't order that particular display aircraft, although it's probably the "buy 9 get 1 free" aircraft option!

[bentleg]

Is that the one that did a barrel roll after takeoff at avalon
Thats the one. Looks like a twin engine cousin to the Hercules.

[Rudder]

Oh .. This is a great deal. Over a 100m each for an aircraft that the yanks paid mid 30m for and then canceled the order as the aircraft didn't meet the specs for field operations. The yanks reject it and we buy them from them!!! Only in Australia..

[VH-XXX]

It was doing a barrel roll when I was walking into Avalon, I thought it was a Herc and it looked like it was going to end very badly. Looked much smaller in the flesh than it did when it was up doing aeros. In fact every move they pulled looked like they were going to end badly. Probably because you don't often see aircraft of that size doing aeros, makes it look slow due to the size.

[Typhoon650]

It's OK if it doesn't meet specs. The government will just specify a weird one off electronics/avionics suite that the manufacturer/end users don't want, modify the airframe in a way no previous customer ever has and let the cost blow out.
Then we'll end up with a reduced order of five and go back to buying the previous aircraft for that role.

[Lookleft]

The problem with that scenario is that the previous aircraft for that role is now a museum piece. When I was still an instructor flying with Airforce pilots in Duchesses (The windscreen needs cleaning-here's some Mr Sheen and a clean rag fill your boots!) they were desk bound working on the Caribou replacement and the C-27 was being looked at then. Although back then it didn't have a military designation and I think the Indonesians were manufacturing it under license. I'm sure I have a photo of one at a Schofields airshow!

[TSRABECOMING]

C27J used the same airframe as G-222 I used to fly many years ago. It is good esp landing as its lading gear struts are nearly parallel to ground making landing very soft. However during flight it has pitch appx UP 5 degree in level flight so not very good for pax sitting at the back (good for pilot only :)). Other bad record is its lack of spare parts supply. Its parts will be broken as stated in its maintenance manual and cant be extended or it is hard to find new part to replace.

[blackhand]

Rudder- The yanks reject it and we buy them from them!!!Read more here
The USA’s C-27J Joint Cargo Aircraft (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/joint-cargo-aircraft-we-have-a-winner-03372/)

[fujii]

Looked like an aileron roll to me. Barel rolls look like a stretched loop with the nose offset from the flight axis.

[DutchRoll]

Having seen the Spartan perform at two Avalons, it looks a great and very capable aircraft. Pity about the sour grapes culture from the CASA manufacturers trying to undermine the RAAF decision.
I personally flew the IPTN (Indonesian) version of the CASA 235 with their chief test pilot when it came out years ago (my background was all varieties of C130 including the J, except the "A" - I'm not quite that old! - plus the Caribou). The CN235 or variant thereof was the alternate choice to the G222 at the time (which itself has now morphed into the C27J). I was asked to privately voice my personal opinions to the then OC of the transport wing who not too long ago finished his illustrious rise to Chief of Defence Force and has just gone into a civilian role with Airservices I believe.

I didn't like the CASA for a couple of reasons. One was that it seemed physically hard work to fly at low level (harder than both the Herc and the Caribou, believe it or not) which I think was a flight control issue. Also not being able to take a standard pallet, though it sounds minor, is actually a pretty big deal logistically. And another issue was that it was a very tight squeeze for certain common Aus military vehicles.

On top of that, the C130J has already absorbed many of the growing pains of the "J" systems, which were pretty immature and needed lots of work when they first came out.

Of course, it all means nothing if the manufacturer doesn't support it properly.

The yanks reject it and we buy them from them!
It's not quite that simple. Whether the US military accepts or rejects a new toy isn't always a reflection on the hardware itself. They sometimes do stupid things. We sometimes do stupid things. Stupid things are something you get used to dealing with in the military.

[blackhand]

Whether the US military accepts or rejects a new toy isn't always a reflection on the hardware itself.
In this case it seems to reflect the animosity between USAF and the Army.

[Flyingblind]

'Stupid is as Stupid does'. Definition; the USAF's machination's to prevent the US Army's planned buy of the C27J.

Go figure.

[codenamejames]

Here's a couple of snaps from Avalon

http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq317/brettsmum/public/C27J1.jpg

Hopefully the new ones don't have leaky fuel caps :}
http://i459.photobucket.com/albums/qq317/brettsmum/public/C27J2.jpg