Night Circuits

[QldPilotGuy]

Hi All,

Would anyone be able to shed some light on what the requirements are to fly night circuits ? Ie do you need to do some with an instructor first or if you are properly licensed minus a nvfr or CIR can you simply just go and do a few night circuits ?

I don't mean this as a first time flying at night though.

[Aussie Bob]

Is it the sun in QLD?

The worst place to find out about rules and regs is a public forum. The best place is the regulator. Google "night vfr caap". It will tell you what you need to know with references to applicable legislation.

Night circuits are fun but I would suggest you need an instructor ....

[QldPilotGuy]

Thanks Bob, was just looking for the Caap reference

Thanks for the directions

[LeadSled]

QPG,
Don't do it until you have had proper briefings, done some homework, and had proper instruction.
That way, you will live longer!!
Without it, you are a temporary Australian, an accident looking for somewhere to happen.
There are all sorts of visual traps at night, which simply don't apply to daylight flying ---- and they are all deadly ---- as the record sadly shows.
Tootle pip!!

PS: A couple of references, just as a starting point:
<http://www.faasafety.gov/gslac/alc/libview_normal.aspx?id=6580>
<https://www.faasafety.gov/files/gslac/courses/content/25/185/Night%20Flying%20Tips.pdf>
<http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/190849-1.html>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nyF9nOYyvE>
<www.flying (http://www.%3Cb%3Eflying%3C/b%3E)way.com/airlecture/night-flying.doc>

These are all US references, and include en-route night flying, but all the visual traps apply, regardless. Lack of ambient lighting, ie: "black holes" are an even greater threat in AU than US. There is a bleeding good reason why we have a Night VFR rating in Australia.

If the links don't work directly, cut and paste them into your browser, or just Google.

[eocvictim]

I don't mean this as a first time flying at night though.

May I ask how you'd have night flying experience without having ever done night circuits or holding a NVFR or CIR? To me they are mutually inclusive; unless of course you're conducting NVFR/CIR training in which case the question is moot as you'd have an instructor.

[training wheels]

Ie do you need to do some with an instructor first or if you are properly licensed minus a nvfr or CIR can you simply just go and do a few night circuits ?

Have the regs changed in the last 15 years or so? I thought the answer to such a question would be obvious. Or don't you need a night VFR rating to fly PIC at night these days?

[jas24zzk]

If you are planning to do Night Circuits without a valid NVFR rating, i'd suggest you go buy a high powered road bike..... you'll live a lot longer...MAYBE

[triathlon]

You need a night cts bv and dual with an instructor before you can launch solo dude.

[AmarokGTI]

If you don't have NVFR or a CIR with the appropriate aeronautical experience at night then you are not suitably qualified.

Without either of the above, or to build the 5hrs night command for CIR, you can do dual circuits and then be sent solo at night, thereby completing your circuits under the direct supervision of an approved pilot.

[LeadSled]

Folks,
To all the references to CIR/NVFR add PIFR..
Tootle pip!!

[Lancair70]

"Have the regs changed in the last 15 years or so? I thought the answer to such a question would be obvious. Or don't you need a night VFR rating to fly PIC at night these days? "

I was confused by this as well, seems you can have a CPL and or CIR and not have a NVFR these days. There is a young pilot fresh out of a sausage factory flying here, who does not have a NVFR, nor the recent exp requirements to fly at night even with the CIR !

[Pinky the pilot]

I was confused by this as well, seems you can have a CPL and or CIR and not have a NVFR these days. There is a young pilot fresh out of a sausage factory flying here, who does not have a NVFR, nor the recent exp requirements to fly at night even with the CIR !

Excellent observation Lancair70! The above has been mentioned by others and myself on previous similar threads.

When I did my CPL in mid 1985 a Night VMC as it was then known, was a requirement to hold a CPL. Exactly when this was abolished as a requirement I do not know but still think that it was a bad idea.

Why it was dropped is totally beyond me.:confused:

[RUMBEAR]

I think the requirements to hold a NVFR prior to CPL issue was around 1991. I obtained the NVFR in early 1991 intending to gain my CPL. By the time I obtained my CPL in late 1991 the NVFR was no longer required.(now only for the Instructor Rating).

[jas24zzk]

Rumbear,
my understanding, is that you need NFVR for Instructor and Charter by Day.

prolly changed again tho