Tips, Tricks - Flying C206 (P206A)

[NzCaptainAndrew]

Would love some tips and tricks flying the beast 206.... some detailed info on engine management would be nice too :ok::ok:

P206A 1966 - IO-520A

[dabz]

dont crash it!

[T28D]

Followthe propellor

[Ralis]

Keep it in the green and lean

[lilflyboy262...2]

Don't think that you have got used to landing the thing! The one time you have someone special on board is when you will f*** it up and get some good bounces in! :O

They are a bit notorious for bouncing.

[VH-XXX]

That last comment is a little bit like when I was in high school and a kid told me that the local driving school car was impossible not to bunny-hop in when letting the clutch out. I didn't ever bunny-hop it when I drove it....

[Jabawocky]

. some detailed info on engine management would be nice too :ok::ok:

Andrew,

You have posted a request for generic information and followed up with a highly in depth education request!

C'mon man....this is pprune not a university, mind you if you dig effectively enough there is a bunch of information here, but it is a big task to find all you need, and particularly so when you do not know what you do not know.

When it comes to engine management, a post on pprune is not going to do it. Sadly doing your PPL/CPL or any other rating is not going to do it. In fact I am constantly amazed at the requirements for a commercial operation to exist, yet there is not data based fact education available, let alone mandatory in any commercial operation. The folk who believe the POH is the source of all knowledge are simply naive and do not know what they do not know either.

The CPL text books and some of the university materials I have read recently are not just simply wrong, they are laughable.

So mate, the best thing you can do is check your PM's and I will give you some good tips on where to go, but be prepared, it involves inve$ting in your education, there is no free lunch. :ok: Besides when you pay, you pay more attention.

J:ok:

[Stikybeke]

Andrew,

Jaba provides some good advice. I'd recommend that when ordering your lunch get the hamburger with the works, and make sure it's one that's going to repeat on you later.

Enjoy,
Stiky
:ok:

[T28D]

They are a bit notorious for bouncing. Only if you fly final too fast, nail the speed and they are are like allhigh wing Cessna's a pussycat.

[Howard Hughes]

They are a bit notorious for bouncing.
Ony if you don't 'hold off'!:ok:

[solowflyer]

If you bounce em you can't be doing it right. They just like a big 172 to fly no big deal.

[VH-XXX]

They just like a big 172 to fly no big deal

That's exactly what Dick used to say about the 208.

Unfortunately it wasn't quite the case for some :ok:

[AussieNick]

load her up, push down on the tail, if it goes back onto the nose you within CofG if it stays perfectly balanced or continues is earthwards journey, move some weight forward, and don't let anyone see of it'll be a carton.....

[metalman2]

I love seeing guys ask fairly decent questions on proon ,it reinforces to myself that if I ever need any info regarding anything to do with aircraft ,I will NEVER, NEVER post here about it!
unless of course my need for the day is ridicule! ;)
Met

[BlatantLiar]

They are a bit notorious for bouncing.

Oh dear......

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

T L A R...Nick....

You've got it!:ok:

p.s. Ref the 'landing technique'......

Flew a few different 206's in 'dem good ole days', and two readily come to mind -
VH-KUQ operated by Transwest out of Hedland in the early 70's
Nick-named, 'Kill Us Quick' due to its seemingly inability to 'flare' nicely, and yes, bounce....."I don't wanna land....

VH-RTS operated by Murchison Air Services, also out of Hedland, a Gentleman's aeroplane if ever there was one.
Simply point it at the ground for a while, flare for a while, pat it on the panel and say 'Land Please'...and it 'Squealched' on...Can I put the nose down now..??
Fully loaded or empty...didn't matter.

VERY Affectionately Nick-named 'Miss Rat****'...

So, if you flew only one of these two, you might have differing opinions re 206's generally.....Which was the 'better' aircraft???

Andrew, as far as the engine is concerned, its an IO-520.
If its your first 'bigger engine', then seek advice from the Chief Pilot, and
I would suggest you operate it as the company tells you to, its their engine, and they know how it works.....

Cheers:ok:

[AussieNick]

T L A R? My brain obviously isn't in gear today......

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Pprune search is your friend. Tips and Tricks C206 (http://www.pprune.org/dunnunda-godzone-pacific/21711-c206-tips-techniques.html)

There is also a good thread for the C210 (http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/85279-210s-tips-tricks.html).

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Sorry Nick,

T hat
L ooks
A bout
R ight...

Cheers:ok:

[AussieNick]

and now I feel stupid lol

[NIK320]

Nice thread dig up Ozbus.
Heaps of handy tips in that.

[triathlon]

Reading the AFM back to front would be a good start

[Gate_15L]

Wow.. .what a difference 10 years makes..

This thread started with 10-12 widea$$es harping on about hamburgers and their high school driving lesson..

The thread started 10 years ago actually had some useful advice...

How Pprune has degraded over the years...


C206 tip..

1" power reduction per minute.. avoids thermal shock. Consult your local friendly Chief Pilot for their take on it...

Don't forget to lean her out.. esp if it's your first big single... might find your fuel consumption rate isn't what you planned for if you forget to lean it... again, consult company S.O.Ps...

[AmarokGTI]

Engine Management Tip:

Engine should be on in flight.

[Jabawocky]

Gate 15

You are kidding me :ugh::ugh::ugh:

You would not know shock cooling if it bit you onthe arse.......well you might, from 7500 to sea level in 1.5 minutes......the shock cooling is when? Answer when you hit the water:rolleyes:

Stupid moronic statements like that only carrythemyths forward another generation. Learn to fly the plane properly and then myths and silly 1"/1000 OWT's are meaningless as they should be.

J:ok:

[Ixixly]

The 1" per minute isn't a bad tip actually, generally not thermal shock though as far as i'm concerned having flown 206s on skydive descents, but I was always taught its a good habit to get into for when you start to fly turbo/turbine twins, doesn't hurt with a single and ingrains it early! But once again that depends on your CP, others might not be impressed with the slight increase in flight-time.

As others said, do what the CP and the SOPs say, end of story really, they're checked by CASA before being approved so shouldn't be un-safe and if something does go wrong your arse is covered!!

[pointdexter]

Aussienick spot on. Main advice is take your camera cos the time spent flying a 206 especially if you are remote will be much of the stories you will tell and will wish you had a lot of photos. I am glad I did.

[T28D]

Engine management tip keep the power upuntil in the circuit in nice warm fat air then fly the aircraft power asnecessary.

Read Jaba's comments he is on the money

Grade2/3 instructors know jack sh*t about sophisticated engine handling and an IO 520 is virtually indestructable in normal flight profiles.

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Observation....Jaba also has wizbang electronics to back his observations. For engine management, always refer to Pelican's Perch author, John Deakin (http://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182146-1.html)

[Jabawocky]

T28D

As I am sure you will agree the problems are not the engines and aircraft, they are the complete lack of education in PPL and CPL training.

I just read another post above that said...."I was always taught..."

That is where all the problems start.

Funny thing is I read yesterday the rebuttle from Champion who employed some consultant to respond to the MSB issued last year by TAT for the TN Cirrus engines. Lots of rubbish surrounded with factual theories all to sell their point that heir product could not possibly be at fault. The competitor does not seem to suffer the same problem. Yet this published paper will be taken as gospel.

So the myth factories are still in full production despite a recession :}

OZBUS
Yes I have a full EMS and so should everyone else and if you read the JD articles I am sure you will get the same message. :ok:

[lilflyboy262...2]

Thank god someone agreed with me! I wish I had nice straight C206's to fly in the bush....

I only bounced one, when I had a 15,000hr pilot as a pax...And that was at about that 200hr mark when you start getting cocky. But some of the other bounces that I saw while on the tarmac were pretty epic!

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Jaba:ok:

Lots of good stuff lurking around here. Always keep tabs of useful threads. You never know when this info becomes gold.

[Pinky the pilot]

Struth! Just realised it was over 23 years ago I was poling C206 VH-AHX around the Moomba Gasfields. Never bounced once, even on some moderately rough Rig strips.

Noted that AHX was listed as 'Destroyed' in the Aussie Aviation mag register review quite some time ago.:sad: Wonder what happened?

[triathlon]

Don't just listen to what the CP says. He is not god. Still read the AFM back to front and learn what the aircraft manufacturer says about operating the aircraft. If the CP wants you to do something which is in contradiction to the aircraft manufacturer, simply ask why!

[The Wawa Zone]

Pinky !

AHX met its doom about 10 years ago on the mud flats just south of Elcho Island NT (YELD). Engine failed and the pilot landed on the mud, but the thing nosed over onto it's back. Everyone ran away but AHX would fly no more.

I last saw it in laying under a tarp in the backyard of one Geoffrey William Hunt on the outskirts of Darwin, along with about 4,000 tonnes of Geoff's other spare aircraft bits spread over about a square Km.

The thing flew at Ngukurr for years in the 90's for Kath Meyering's Gulf Air. Mario, where are ya ?

[Pinky the pilot]

Thanks for that TWZ. A sad ending to a fairly good 206.

[flying-spike]

Keep a little power on during the flare and you will grease it on.
Leave too much on and then take it off because your speed is too high and it will drop like a brick and it will then give you an opportunity for another attempt (if you have enough runway left)
How much power you leave on will depend on the aircraft weight. Go forth and have fun.

[AussieNick]

Another thing I found, personally, is that you seem to hold the nose a lot higher in the flare than in other machines I've flown, but that's a personal view.

Just like I seem to sit crooked in the lance, as if I'm looking towards the right side of the nose, not straight down it/

[Jabawocky]

If the CP wants you to do something which is in contradiction to the aircraft manufacturer, simply ask why!

And when the POH and the CP are full of rubbish and its not scientifically correct..........then ask why ?? :}:}:} And when there is no EMS fitted to a commercial aircraft.....Ask Why?

Just like the poor pilot who died for Whyalla. You too could be a victim of others bad practises.:uhoh: Even those endorsed by the CP and the manufacturer.

J:ok:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

You mean this......

Pelican's Perch: The Whyalla Report -- Junk Science? (http://www.airsafety.com.au/pelp0057.html)

Interesting read........:ok:

[T28D]

Every driver of piston engined aircraft should read that article

[aileron_69]

Mr. Jaba is correct. The 1" a minute theory is a very over simplified explanation used to stop learners from wrecking engines. When we are flying the 210s in hills down low we vary from 25" back to around 20", maybe 19" at the lowest to fly down the other side. We find there are not any shock cooling issues doing this. I dont think going from 24" straight back to idle is going to do your engine any good however. Mind you, in the 210 if you are in an L model and you enter the circuit at 150-160 knots, 24" on the gauge, you will be flying around for awhile to get the speed back to get the wheels and flaps out at 140knots. Just slow her up a bit so you get to the circuit with 20 inches on and you wont break too much.
With the 206, from what I can recall, heavy load, aft CofG, dont put full flap out, because if you get too slow, you will run out of forward trim, the only solution being full power to get enough air over the elevator.