Me262

[spekesoftly]

Tuesday 12/3/02 CH4(UK) 20.00 - 21.00 'Battle Stations'

[Abbeville]

Thanx SS. Appreciate the advanced notice

[Dan Winterland]

An interesting aside - I once read accounts some of the WW2 pliots who flew 262s which suggest that Chuck Yaeger wasn't the first man to break the sound barrier. . .. .I can't remeber where I read it - it was a while back, but I think that the 262 with it's moderate sweep was quite capable of reaching M-crit and going supersonic in a dive. The 'new builds' currently being constructed in the States may throw some light on this topic.

[Skylark4]

When I was at Colerne, 1964 - 70, there was a very good museum collection including a 262 which I had a good look at. From memory, it was built like a glider, particularly like an Olympia 2b which was the type I was flying at the time. This included a fairly flimsy canopy. Now I can accept that, properly fitted and fastened, a canopy will be stronger than it looks but I would have expected that `going through the barrier` would have produced some rather extreme loads on it. Wasn`t it also tailless. With the movement of the centre of lift (?) I would have expected it to go out of control.. .Purely my thoughts. Totally unqualified to comment.. .. .Mike W

[henry crun]

Tailless ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> . .I fear you are confusing the 262 with the 163, which was an entirely different beast.

[I have control]

<a href="http://www.stormbirds.com" target="_blank">www.stormbirds.com</a> for the latest information on the new build 262's. Check out the photos of the engine runs... first flights later this month... these planes are utterly awesome, I can't wait to see one fly!

[Chimbu chuckles]

I have a DVD called "Faster Than Sound" (Nova) which looks at whether there is any credence in claims that any WW2 types accidently exceeded the speed of sound.. .. .An old German Test Pilot from the era states that one German Pilot claimed to have achieved it but for various reasons stated he discounts it, as did the other German experts at the time.. .. .A RN Test Pilot, Eric Brown, who was involved in the highly secret High Speed Flight recounts how 4 of his peers died trying to see how fast various piston fighters of the era would go. He was also the chap who was to fly the M52 which was cancelled for no good reason by the British Govt but which later proved succesful, albeit in a remote controlled scale model which exceeded the sound barrier easily. He apparently is still a little PeeOed to this day.. .. .Goerge "Wheaties" Welch apparently exceeded Mach 1 accidently while testing the prototype F86 some months before the X1 but this, like the X1 success, was hushed up for a fair while and politics (Civvy vs Military) is cited as the reason Yeager was 'given the nod'.. .. .While in no way detracting from Yeager's efforts, skill and courage it would seem that he was the first man through the Sound 'Barrier'in a deliberate and recorded manner rather than the first ever.. .. .I have a mate who flew CAC's version of the F86 and he tells me that all it took was a reasonably gentle dive to exceed M 1.0 without so much as a shudder and that you could aim the boom to good effect:D. .. .Given that fact it seems highly likely that Welch did indeed exceed the speed of sound! This would have been the second time in his career that he earned the Congressional Medal of Honour, later awarded to Yeager for the X1 efforts. The first was when he took off and shot down four Japanese aircraft at Pearl Harbour! This award was downgraded to a lesser medal by the middle ranking AAC officers due to him taking off 'without approval' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> . .. .As an aside the scenes in that silly movie where the two Heroes fly and fight after an all nighter are accurate. Welsh and his 'partner in crime' were just leaving an all night pissup and discussing how to spend the rest of the day when the Japs screamed averhead. They were straffed 4 times on their way to their aircraft, parked at a sattelite field, and flew twice, during each wave, and scored on both occasions.. .. .Welsh died in the 50s testing F100. Interesting to think what might have been had he survived to the present day!!. .. .Chuck.. . . . <small>[ 07 March 2002, 07:55: Message edited by: Chimbu chuckles ]</small>

[Cyclic Hotline]

Amazing! Haven't heard of this project at all. I'll have to go and check it out next time I'm in the neighbourhood.. .. .I think the engine selection is a good idea, those Jumo's were a bit tricky, plus I imagine a little hard to find these days.. .. .Excellent website as well.

[Iron City]

Would be interesting to see how the pilot knew he was going supersonic as I presume the ASI setup was not designed or calibrated for transonic flight.. .. .Have heard of P-38s and P-51s hitting the shock waves but not getting quite through. Believe the Me-262 was not designed to go supersonic and with all the engine problems it probably would only be by chance that two good ones in good trim would be mounted on any one aircraft. Saw the Smithsonian 262 at Silver Hill while it was being restored and it appears to be very structurally robust so given some power would not doubt it could at least give a stout knock on the door of Mach 1.

[No comment]

reckon we might see one of these in the UK? ever?

[Dan Winterland]

I recall that the pilots said they were diving at full throttle, the ASI was off the clock, they experienced lots of buffet which suddenly stopped, then the aircraft felt like it was accelerating. There was also a marked trim change. Sounds like Mach 1 to me, but they didn't necessarily know it at the time.