So what's up with the 121.5 twits?

[DutchRoll]

Why do it? It is the boredom of night flying out in the boonies or something?

It sorta disturbs me that an apparently increasing number of pilots recently are demonstrating a mental maturity while they're flying which approximates that of a 2 year old (though arguably that might be insulting to many 2 year olds).

Aside from the stupid sounds and moronic comments, what takes the cake is someone deciding to clog up 121.5 with their ipod music for a minute. I like nothing more than a good joke, a funny quote, or some music. But not on the emergency frequency.

In a time where we're struggling to keep T's & C's at some reasonable level and show people how we deserve to be paid and treated as professionals, I can't thank you enough for making anyone listening out think we're a bunch of complete tossers. :mad:

[chimbu warrior]

someone deciding to clog up 121.5 with their ipod music for a minute

It could be within that 60 seconds that someone's Mayday call or ELT signal is blocked, meaning that this could potentially jeopardize a life.

[NIK320]

Same goes for CTAF's.

Not the right frequency to ask Bill to put the kettle on :ugh:

[BlatantLiar]

As long as the CTAF isnt busy a 'Bill put the kettle on' doesnt bother me.

The ones that annoy me are, 'gday Bill, hows ya goin moit, hows the wife, hows the kids? Oh, and can you put the kettle on?'

[Wally Mk2]

'Dutchy' ya don't need to be very bright to drive a plane so hence there will always be an element of Neanderthal types who simply use 121.5 as a plaything:ugh:

I've had to use 121.5 at the direction of ATC in an attempt to contact a wayward plane out of contact but that's based on an issue becoming a safety issue not creating a safety issue by it's use.



Wmk2

[Toluene Diisocyanate]

Judging by what I hear on a daily basis, I was under the impression that 121.5 is the Qantas chat frequency :}

[Howard Hughes]

Ever thought that the mindless chatter and Ipod broadcasts are not coming from pilots? (Qantas crew excepted) :eek:

We ain't the only ones who use 121.5.;)

'En guarde' http://www.smilies.our-local.co.uk/index_files/Touche.gif

[DutchRoll]

We ain't the only ones who use 121.5.
Well, it's often late at night and while flying over the GAFA. So.......aliens? :hmm:

[nitpicker330]

Really?

I spend about 16 to 20 hours month flying over the GAFFA in the early hours and I almost never hear anyone chatting on Guard about anything other than operational contacts to go to another freq. Music? never heard it.

Cheers

[Altimeters]

I'm also finding a lot of people just aren't watching which comm is actually selected before transmitting. So many more "xxx Sydney xxxx123 inbound no requirements, etc". Very fcukin annoying coming in to land trying to hear tower's transmissions with some **** on guard. :D

[Trojan1981]

One organisation with which I was flying last year had a couple of very young pilots who thought they'd pick a frequency on which to chat, though thankfully not guard. It was, however, an enroute freq somewhere in the country and high flying aircraft were able to hear their transmissions. One of them was (and still is by all accounts) a particulaly immature young bloke who rarely exercised good judgement and his verbal diarrhea quickly identified himself and his employer. The other was more disciplined.
A letter soon arrived from CASA and the CP hit the roof! Both blokes were lucky to keep their jobs. The more disciplined one sorted himself out and is now chasing his dream airline career. The other... well, I wouldn't be surprised if its him you hear on guard. :cool:

[Ixixly]

Its a good idea they had Trojan...just poorly executed!!!

[kalavo]

As long as the CTAF isnt busy a 'Bill put the kettle on' doesnt bother me.

The ones that annoy me are, 'gday Bill, hows ya goin moit, hows the wife, hows the kids? Oh, and can you put the kettle on?'

Both annoy me... CTAF might not sound busy at 3000', but if you start listening on descent from Flight Levels, it's ALWAYS busy. Nothing worse than someone's radio call from your destination being clipped by someone being a tool.

[Trojan1981]

Its a good idea they had Trojan...just poorly executed!!

True mate; but there are just some things you dont say on the radio!

[Keg]

Judging by what I hear on a daily basis, I was under the impression that 121.5 is the Qantas chat frequency :}

It may be the QF 'chat frequency' according to you ( an assertion I've not found accurate in the last 15ish years of domestic flying) but it appears 121.5 recently has become the default company frequency for arrival requirements. I've got some stats by trips if people are interested as to who makes the mistake most often.

We all make mistakes and i accept that but what irritates me is the tool that says 'go ahead' to the first error and them we get another 30 seconds of wheelchair and engineering requirements.

I agree with the original post. As professional aviators we should be better than this.

[noclue]

The PA's are classic :E

[Counter-rotation]

with some **** on guard.

Altimeters, I take it you've never made a mistake then eh?

Chit-chat is one thing, but misdirected transmissions are something else. Does anyone here think that someone going out on the wrong freq. would actually do that, if it wasn't an honest mistake?

Everyone, hands up - be honest now - hands up if you've never made an honest mistake. Yep, thought so... :hmm:

To the chit chat merchants: really, can I ask that you please free up the frequency, and be more professional?

To the PLONKERS who have never made an honest mistake, and enjoy trying to be a smart arse (and if you're reading this, YOU know who YOU are): Can I ask that you please get a life, grow up, whatever. Alternatively, you could always decide to continue being a d1ckh3ad - it's your call...

CR.

[Capt Fathom]

Very fcukin annoying coming in to land trying to hear tower's transmissions with some **** on guard


Why would you have, guard as you call it, selected whilst landing?

[morno]

Because I know in my operation, Comm 1 is the active, Comm 2 is on guard.

morno

[Connaught]

damn

20 years ago we had (and where taught about) something called professionalism

guess that got f$@# over too

[Altimeters]

Originally posted by counter rotation
I take it you've never made a mistake then eh?

Yes I have but I never said that I've never made a mistake have I? := I always look before transmitting. ALWAYS.

Originally posted by capt fathom
Why would you have guard as you called selected whilst on landing?

Because genius what else would you recommend selecting comm 2 to? A random CTAF frequency? Ohhh perhaps numbers? :hmm:

It's simple, company policy states comm 1 active, comm 2 guard.

[Capn Bloggs]

Because genius what else would you recommend selecting comm 2 to? A random CTAF frequency? Ohhh perhaps numbers?

It's simple, company policy states comm 1 active, comm 2 guard.
There is a counter view that, at least where instant communication with ATC is necessary ie Ground, Tower, Approach, and Departures, you monitor the active ATC freq on both radios.

That will 1/prevent you missing any critical ATC transmissions eg "Go Around", "Stop Immediately" if one of your VHFs fails and [cough cough] 2/prevent you being jammed by someone transmitting on Guard and missing any critical ATC transmissions...

[morno]

And get the echo all the time with both radios being on the same frequency? Bugger that for a joke. That's more annoying than someone transmitting on guard!

[kellykelpie]

Actually there is no echo Morno. Was standard Ops in Ansett for many years.

[training wheels]

Because genius what else would you recommend selecting comm 2 to? A random CTAF frequency? Ohhh perhaps numbers? :hmm:

How about company frequency? That's SOP for us.

[halas]

In the rest of the world guard is monitored by ATC and is also their back up for miss-guided soles on a long lost frequency, and for them to contact the said lost sole.

Has Oz ATC caught up?

halas

[morno]

Kellykelpie,
Understood. In all the aircraft I've flown, the other comm will pick up the transmission on Comm 1 (ie the one you're using). Not to mention 2 radios broadcasting the same thing back to you.

morno

[glekichi]

Because genius what else would you recommend selecting comm 2 to? A random CTAF frequency? Ohhh perhaps numbers?

We use comm 2 for ground frequencies, CTAFs, and to monitor 121.5 in flight - once on tower on comm 1 I have comm 2 queued up with the ground frequency, if there is one, but muted, so it is just as easy to switch to that as it is to switch the flip-flop on comm 1.

The comm 2 antenna is on top of the aircraft rather than underneath it and is optimised for communications when the aircraft is on the ground. It makes a huge difference at times.

[ad-astra]

Kellykelpie

If I remember correctly when both Comms were set to the same frequency Capt listened to Comm 1 and First Officer listened to Comm 2.
Not both pilots listening to both Comms. Long time ago though.

[Desert Flower]

In the rest of the world guard is monitored by ATC and is also their back up for miss-guided soles on a long lost frequency, and for them to contact the said lost sole.

I wasn't aware ATC were concerned about lost fish swimming around in the sea?! ;)

DF

[travelator]

In a modern jet (ie, not a 737 :E) there is no issue with two VHF sets being on the same frequency. When you switch to approach or tower, the radios get a little louder and you can hear the other bloke/girl transmitting. Much more preferable than having to listen to ride reports or wheelchair requirements during such a critical stage. What if an ELT went off during flare or at V1?

If your SOPs require 121.5 on 2 at all times then I would be deselecting that audio below transition.

[Altimeters]

Training wheels,

I can assure you if I had company frequency on comm 2 I'd be missing more transmissions than if I was to monitor guard. :E

If we were to have the same frequency on both we would get that echo. Much the same that Morno has been talking about. However I'm starting to just turn down the audio on comm 2 below 10,000. I'll see if I can make it changed in the book when I talk to the CP. :ok:

[Capn Bloggs]

Curious: exactly what type of aeroplanes give an echo when listening to one freq on both radios?

Not to mention 2 radios broadcasting the same thing back to you.
No problem with that. If one radio dies, the other keeps "talking".

If I remember correctly when both Comms were set to the same frequency Capt listened to Comm 1 and First Officer listened to Comm 2.
Not both pilots listening to both Comms. Long time ago though.
Did listen to both comms; you could tell which radio the other guy was transmitting on.

Due to the need to monitor two separate freqs now (CTAFs) we changed our SOP to transmit on Comm 1 for ATC TX, and CTAFs on Comm 2. But below Transition in Class D/C, both comms on ATC, transmit on Comm 1. No echo. :ok: "Echo" only occurs when ATC have Hi and Lo freqs combined. Now that is bad!

[Capt Fathom]

Because genius what else would you recommend selecting comm 2 to?

Thanks for the complement!

I don't care what comm 2 is set too. Horses for courses. But you originally complained that transmissions on guard were making it hard to hear the tower's transmissions!.

There's an easy fix for that! Deselect it. It's an unwanted distraction at a critical time.

[AerocatS2A]

If we were to have the same frequency on both we would get that echo. Much the same that Morno has been talking about. However I'm starting to just turn down the audio on comm 2 below 10,000. I'll see if I can make it changed in the book when I talk to the CP.
Are you sure you'd have "that echo"? Have you actually tried it for a ground/tower/approach frequency? If comm 2 is picking up your transmission on comm 1 it's going to take a tiny fraction of a second come back at you. It's all happening at the speed of light and the distance the signal has to travel is measured in metres. Perhaps you've had a bad experience with Centre frequencies. I've had to monitor two adjacent yet combined Centre frequencies and you'd get an echo with your transmission because it was being re-broadcast on the other Centre frequency with some delay. This doesn't happen when using both radios for the same frequency though, at least not in the type I fly.

On the subject of making mistakes. Yes we all make mistakes sometimes and I'd never have a go at someone who accidentally transmits on 121.5 once a year, however you occasionally come across an individual who repeatedly makes these sorts of mistakes over and over again. I'd estimate that in the mob I work for, at my base, 95% of these errors are probably made by one person. Of the other 5%, 4% are made by slightly stressed new employees undergoing line training, and the last 1% is from normally professional guys and gals making their once-a-year cock-up.

[Altimeters]

Yep I'm sure. I've submitted numerous reports and I'm waiting a reply. Sometimes if someone transmits on any comm, the other one gets blocked out completely!!! :{

[AerocatS2A]

What aircraft type?

[Altimeters]

B200. But it's the way the company has rigged the comms. So don't stress people!!!

[Capn Bloggs]

it's the way the company has rigged the comms.
Probably set up by a genius. :}

[kalavo]

If your SOPs require 121.5 on 2 at all times then I would be deselecting that audio below transition.

Every beacon I've ever heard, I've been below transition at the time.

I think the guys that have been found thanks to crews monitoring 121.5 would prefer it if the one person that AerocatS2A works with, makes an effort to check their Com selector before transmitting... only takes 3 weeks to form a habit, and something a lot of us got taught at the PPL stage.

[Counter-rotation]

Indeed, make an effort to check your mic select - 100% fair point. But come on...

I heard it again today while in Sydney. Some guy goes out on guard inadvertantly - hey, it's going to happen from time to time. He even realised it, and pretty much straight up ceased transmitting, and...

In less than a second someone is on there - "Guard mate". Fair enough to let him know, but surely you realise that he has realised.

But wait, there's more! (Like an annoying telemarketing spray)

Another "121.5 twit" feels the need to pipe up in a stupid voice. Then, after that, yet another... What is going through the space between this guy's ears, when after two "guard police" transmissions, he feels the need to add a third?!!
I can see it now, he's sitting there, with PTT in one hand and d1k in the other, feeling smug and superior but vowing to be faster on the draw next time, so as to get in first - with a new, improved and even sillier voice or sound effect.

Some good points made here about radio use, but the question in the thread's title remains unanswered... :confused: :ugh:

[Howard Hughes]

-checks mic-

"Say again, in with with the guard police"...:E

[DutchRoll]

Yeah I don't like the Guard-Nazis either. An inadvertent transmission does occur from time to time on 121.5. That frequency exchange switch is a right-royal pain sometimes. It really doesn't require some bloke to scream out "GUARD!!" at the top of his voice. :=

And I don't mind an initial contact on guard to "go the numbers" to chat about the wind or whatever. :ok:

It's the absolute morons who do all the other stuff on guard I'm concerned about (well, concerned for their mental health at least). :ugh:

[Nose wheel first]

A couple of months ago I was asked by centre to try and contact an aircraft on xxx.x and on 121.5 and if I got hold of them to contact centre on zzz.z. When I tried to contact him on "Guard" I specifically called "abc, def on 121.5" .... I still had some peanut inform me that I was on "Guard". FFS, I know.....


I can see it now, he's sitting there, with PTT in one hand and d1k in the other, feeling smug and superior but vowing to be faster on the draw next time, so as to get in first


Thats gold! :D A pity it's probably true!

[jas24zzk]

clearly said peanut was not worthy of being rated a peanut. Without your Tx identifying the calling frequency, said peanut prolly would not have realised what freq he received the initial call on


Good thing it wasn't me in your spot....i can't afford enough lawyers for what my response would have been.

Dunno about anyone else, but was out in the backwoods once and got asked to attempt to make contact with a certain aircraft, on several freq's including 121.5. Very little info was given from BN centre. An extremely disconcerting feeling to be sitting there trying to contact someone whose situation is uncertain.

I can say I have never been dumb enough to tx on guard.....other freq's...................................................... ................

quoting Kalavo
only takes 3 weeks to form a habit, and something a lot of us got taught at the PPL stage

Its surprising how few students get through without dealing with multiple radio's. Even more alarming, is that using the 2nd radio is actively discouraged by most instructors with the line "don't do that it'll only make it harder for you" Hence we go onto learn the hard way. My hard way was in a twin at NIGHT into YLTV. Fortunatley the other aircraft in the cct was monitoring MLCEN, so was fully aware of me.

Maybe the entry level training needs to put some more focus on aircraft subsystems, esp with glass cockpits becoming all the rage, and more differing between models.

[Capn Bloggs]

Its surprising how few students get through without dealing with multiple radio's. Even more alarming, is that using the 2nd radio is actively discouraged by most instructors with the line "don't do that it'll only make it harder for you"
I consider running two active radios to be one of our major hazards in Class G and something that should be discouraged. Either you're t-xing on Area or CTAF, not both. Sure you may be forced to making calls on both at the same time but it's a sure-fire way to lose the plot IMO. I always monitor the other one, but I try like hell to yabber only on one. "Changing to CTAF". :ok:

[Ducksbum]

Guard Nazis - Now I know where you hang out.

You guys are awesome :rolleyes: