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vee-tail-1
17th May 2012, 17:45
Went into B&Q for some plumbing parts. Expected a £40 bill, but surprised to be charged only £25. Back in my car and checked the bill to find my 6 metres of 15mm copper pipe @ £3,99 per metre listed as 6 metres of 15mm pipe insulation @ £0.25 per metre. Yahayyy I got away with not paying £22 ...

But no ... instead I went back to the store, pointed out their mistake, and paid the full bill. The young sales woman couldn't care less, but the older security guy gave me a big smile and a thumbs up.

So why did I do that? ... I think I know why and it was for me and my own self worth ... not for B&Q or any other person.

Later I recounted the scene to my 14 year old son and asked what he would do ... his answer genuinely shocked me. In his opinion it was a gift, since no one at B&Q would care, and they are a big firm with lots of money. It would be different he said if it was a small local store, and he would go back to pay the full amount.

Right now I don't know if my son has a problem, or perhaps I have a problem with today's reality. There are going to be a lot of discussions on logic, reason, and morality over our dinner table in the next few days. :uhoh:

anotherthing
17th May 2012, 17:47
IMHO you did the right thing :ok:

BabyBear
17th May 2012, 18:00
No doubt you did the right thing, but can the retailers be counted on doing so?

Here is one though, got a letter from a bank telling me it was the end of the bonus period and that as a loyal customer I would be automatically transferred to a new bonus rate. Truth was the new bonus rate was less than I would get opening a new account. So here we have a) application of a rate known to be lower than available to other customers of the same organisation; b) a blatant attempt to have me believe there was some sort of reward for my loyalty, in other words an outright attempt to con me.

Would you feel the same if this said organsiation made an error in your favour with another transaction?

BB

Rossian
17th May 2012, 18:03
.....it's something about B&Q. I went to buy a swivel wall bracket for a TV in the kitchen. I'd seen the one my neighbour had bought in B&Q - £60. Popped into the same store, there it was, £60 on the shelf edge label. Took to to self service checkout as there were no visible staff at the other ones. Scanned it - £25, WTF?? Cancelled transaction and tried again, same result.
Found a staff member (Teenage bimbo) explained situation. Couldn't understand the problem and wandered off. Found a grown up who DID understand the problem. He tried and got the same result; took it to a normal checkout same result. He gave in and took my card and swiped, I paid and left.

SWMBO said "Well at least you tried" But for the OP, you did the right thing. (Do have a word with your lad though.)

The Ancient Mariner

Memphis_bell
17th May 2012, 18:09
How weird is this ! I have had the same experiance twice in the last few weeks ! Firstly i was in a bar and got charged £1.36 which was meant to have been £11.36 (i sat down with a beer and looked at the receipt..i went back and paid the extra £10)

Secondly, i was with a friend in Morrisons and she purchased a box of Plates, bowles etc (the box was open..it had no lid...well when she got out the shop she realised she had put several other bits in the box by accident (as she was throwing things in the trolly) and the counter lady didnt swipe them through..well we realised when we got outside, and when we did i insisted she went to pay for them (against her wishes) !!!

Karma.....OR NOT ! I have the FLU !

Tableview
17th May 2012, 18:10
it was for me and my own self worthThat is all that matters.
I would have done the same, and have done under similar circumstances, and have been laughed at. I don't care. If you feel it's right, then it is. Never having to feel guilty is a good feeling.

I have a 17 year old son and I have tried to make him understand this type of morality, I am not sure if he agrees but I feel he would do the same.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
17th May 2012, 18:19
Moral relativism. re local hardware store and B&Q.

Would either have credited you if they discovered later that they had overcharged you?

In my experience; local hardware store yes, B&Q no.

Would either massively overcharge you in the first place?
Local hardware store opens big box and sells individual fuses for 0.20p. B&Q sells 1 in a blister pack for 2.98
HDMI cable - online 3.99, B&Q 29.98 (in a blister pack, of course). Same item.

I find it hard to be moral with those who aren't.

stuckgear
17th May 2012, 18:22
i had the same thing happen twice recently (one in a B&Q) and both times corrected the error and paid the same amount.

reason: i don't like being screwed over and as such, don't like screwing other people over.

Tableview
17th May 2012, 18:26
Fox3WheresMyBanana (http://www.pprune.org/members/325574-fox3wheresmybanana)

Nobody forces you to go to B&Q, and by doing so you accept their way of doing business and their pricing. At least, that's my view.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
17th May 2012, 18:43
Not so. B&Q deliberately undercuts the bigger ticket items that keep the local hardware store in business, and lean on the local council to keep rates high in the inner city where the local hardware store is. Then bangs their prices back up as soon as the little guy goes bust. I have the brains to get stuff online from technical suppliers, but the vast majority don't.

If you want to see what 'big box suppliers' will do to the UK over the next 10 years, go look at any number of small towns in America; it's heartbreaking.

Tableview
17th May 2012, 18:49
fox3wheresmybanana

Sadly, I know you are right, but if everybody realised that and boycotted the B&Qs and supported the local guys, things would be different. So I maintain that nobody is forced to go to B&Q but it might require some effort and ingenuity to find alternative sources.

ArthurR
17th May 2012, 18:54
Happened to me in a supermarket in Madrid, I bought a bottle of Casa Juana, the girl on the till rang up 35€, I took here round and showed her the price 85€, she thanked me. Mind you a couple of weeks earlier, they had tried to charge me 115€ for the same thing, until I pointed out the price tag on the shelf. It works both ways.

Rossian
17th May 2012, 19:16
.....another example. Putting shopping through the checkout chatting to the lass (whom I knew). Included was a bottle of rather expensive malt. She took off the security tag on that "thingy" where they look as if they will break the bottle neck.
"How many did you break before you got the action just right?" says I.
No probs she said.

Get home and SWMBO asks how much the whisky cost.
"I'll check the till receipt". Can't find any reference to whisky - ooer!!
Call the shop and explain what happened and that, probably, I'd distracted the checkout lass.
"Bring in the till roll and the bottle and we'll sort it out"
Not wanting to drop the lass in it when they rationalised the till receipts at the end of her stint, in I went.
Customer services lady checked the series of events and said "Thank you for you honesty and concern for the staff member. Off you go. It doesn't happen very often."
Who said honesty doesn't pay?

The Ancient Mariner

rgbrock1
17th May 2012, 19:21
Rossian:

I hope, though, the "lass" didn't lose her job over it. Happens often enough.

fireflybob
17th May 2012, 19:25
You did the right thing - I have done similar!

“Be the change you want to see in the world.” Mahatma Gandhi

Here is one though, got a letter from a bank telling me it was the end of the bonus period and that as a loyal customer I would be automatically transferred to a new bonus rate. Truth was the new bonus rate was less than I would get opening a new account. So here we have a) application of a rate known to be lower than available to other customers of the same organisation; b) a blatant attempt to have me believe there was some sort of reward for my loyalty, in other words an outright attempt to con me.

Would you feel the same if this said organsiation made an error in your favour with another transaction?


Two wrongs don't make a right - what goes around comes around.

wings folded
17th May 2012, 19:42
In a restaurant in Covent Garden, had ordered the meal and a nice bottle to go with it. The starter course and some of the wine was well out of the way when we were asked (well, in fact ordered) to evacuate because of a bomb scare in the Opera House.

Off we went, as far away as seemed prudent.

Had a bit more to eat in a rezzie some way away to satiate our hunger.

Upon returning to Covent Garden, we dropped into the same restaurant to be greeted by the very pleasant receptionist lady who wanted to know if we required a table for two.

No, we said, we dropped by to pay for what we had consumed before being ejected.

She was amazed and declared with no room left for debate that she and the restaurant were embarassed by the events which had forced our leaving, and there was no question of us paying for what we had consumed, that she hoped we might return some other time without the drama of a bomb scare, and that, in passing, we were in a minority of one to have acted in such a way.

I have been back to that rezzie more than once since.

Is there a moral?

vulcanised
17th May 2012, 19:44
I find it hard to be moral with those who aren't.

Agree, and since Morrisons has been mentioned - Butterfly buns, been selling them for years, x6 for £1. Now appearing with NEW! on the box, same thing but just 4 in the £1 box. Several times bought two of an item to get the advertised reduced price, get home - no discount on ticket.

It's like reverse shoplifting.

threepeanutpax
17th May 2012, 19:52
If only everyone was that honest.....:ok:

tolakuma manki
17th May 2012, 19:52
Aristotle suggested:
"What we need, in order to live well, is a proper appreciation of the way in which such goods as friendship, pleasure, virtue, honor and wealth fit together as a whole. In order to apply that general understanding to particular cases, we must acquire, through proper upbringing and habits, the ability to see, on each occasion, which course of action is best supported by reasons."
Although he would have said it in Greek.
More here:
Aristotle's Ethics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy) (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-ethics/)

Tableview
17th May 2012, 19:58
I had dinner in a restaurant in Tehran and intended to pay in cash as credit cards are not accepted in Iran.

Although I had a wallet full of folding stuff, at about 20,000 Riyals to £1, it wasn't enough - by a long way. Embarassed, I said I'd go back to my hotel and return with the money. They said no, I was their guest. This was very typical of the grace and hospitality I encountered during my stay in that country. I went back the next day with the money, they seemed surprised that I'd done so, and only took it after some persuasion, and I had to have tea and a snack.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
17th May 2012, 20:00
As a kind of summary from my point of view.

Agree about Gandhi - you be good first.

Preferably find somewhere to live where everyone is like you. I now have. End of problem. There are few big boxes here, and those are moral because the employees and managers are moral, and will find a way around any immoral company policy.

Use the little guy where you can.When forced to deal with large immoral corporations, I must admit to the 'they started it' approach, and exploit them in every legal (but not necessarily moral) way.

and finally, educate yourself. It saves you shedloads of money.

Fareastdriver
17th May 2012, 20:04
Redoing the ensuite shower room, big time. Go to B&Q to look at shower heads and mixers. Ayatollah picks the one that must be incorporated; £129 and three weeks delivery. Cannot wait that long. Take her to Homebase to see if cheaper. Same thing, same price. Decide to forgo my Wednesday 10% and ask them to wrap one up for me. This time six weeks delivery. Scrub round everything and go home.

On line to Ebay. Two days later it arrives at the door for £85 inc P&P.

racedo
17th May 2012, 20:20
Couple of weeks ago had some French friends over and was out with them and combined kids (their and my lad) for visit to a tourist attraction, it was a good day, pulled into supermarket Petrol station and put £90+ worth of fuel in.

2 hot hatchs pass in front of me as I walk to pay, loud exhausts, couple of lads in each but that it and pull in as one pumps air into tyre.

In to checkout and state pump number, he says that has been paid, who I asked and he said I have just charged guy in the 205, waiting while other car put in air.

I legged it out and stuck head in their open window, scaring the :mad: out of them and said, thank you very much but you just paid for my diesel, he shocked and mate looks at receipt and says yup, so we went back in.

Got idiot in shop to credit his card and put it on mine, he was genuinely shocked at 1.) his card had accepted it 2.) he didn't even look at bill 3.) even more so that I chased after him.

Kid shook my hand couple of times as he went out in a daze, even his mate got out and said thanks and asked Why. My reponse was It wasn't right and probably £90+ worth a lot to you, kid replied it was his fares to college, food and the odd drink for the next week and he just can't believe his luck. I know that he will forever remember a little bit of honesty.

Friends in car couldn't figure out what happened and when told his response was "you got some good karma coming" and added fact you did it without thinking means something to you but means a lot to us as well.

gingernut
17th May 2012, 20:25
I start with the premise that most people, most of the time are honest. Good on ya'

Think I would have done a runner me'self:)

Loose rivets
17th May 2012, 20:26
Rivetess is always finding mistakes at our local store. ( a huge Texas chain.) The errors are almost always in their favor. She really lets them know.

On the other hand, I got 6 bottles of Loo e jar doe and said to the girl, 'Coo, that's cheap.' She checked it and it was right.

'Can I get some more?' She said yes, so I dashed back and got another case. :\ Well, I do buy 300 bottles a year from them - and for the last 8 years. OMGoooooooodness!:uhoh:


Seriously though, If you do do one of these honesty moments, keep a record of it. Should you one day accidentally put some stuff in an open box, it might behoove you well to have a fine record of honesty to refer to while your sitting in the manager's office.

At the risk of getting one of those damn silly Edit notices at the bottom, I'll just mention the right to buy at an advertised price. Is it fair?

At the same store, I've protested that the displayed price is lower. They almost always say I can have it at the price, even though it's an obvious mistake. The law here is the same as at home, and the co-op did the same for me last summer. I happened to know that financially, they were still ahead of the game.

I've told the story of the Aston Martin. No doubt about it, as it was in the Sunday Times. (Same model Prince Charles had.)

£45,000 It was after 20 minutes of looking at it that the bloke suddenly said, "No, £145,000"




This Edit thing is silly.:*

Rossian
17th May 2012, 21:52
...no, the lass did not lose her job; I made a point of stating that I'd distracted her. That it wasn't carelessness. Oh, and I checked with her another day for precisely the reasons you mention.

The Ancient Mariner

BabyBear
17th May 2012, 22:06
Two wrongs don't make a right - what goes around comes around.

Seems to me, Bob, you are arguing that their actions will result in then getting what they deserve.:D

It's like reverse shoplifting.

Yip, been there so many times with significant inconvenience with long waits at customer service and then trip to isle. Happens so often I find it difficult to accept it is genuine.

BB

Slasher
18th May 2012, 03:48
I don't get into subjective "right or wrong" threads VT1, but
B&Q is a British multinational retailing company where a 22
quid oversight wouldn't even be noticed. Id've kept the loot
- better to have it in your pocket than theirs.

I'm not advocating "stealing" from multinationals, just if they
screw up through no fault of my own and to my financial gain
I keep my mouth firmly shut and'd put the savings to better
use.

..It would've been quite different had it been an independent
family-owned hardware store with old mum and pop running
the place - and you'd probably get a nice cup of tea out back
in appreciation for your honesty.


This Edit thing is silly.

The Edit used to give one 10 mins grace to tidy up one's post
but now its anything past 10 secs. Pretty stupid considering
the mod bleatings of "wasting bandwidth use" now and then.

Loose rivets
18th May 2012, 05:32
That's right, and to teach them a lesson I'm going to routinely waffle on endlessly about trivial . . .

Oh, that's right, I already do.:uhoh:



Wonder if I can sneak an Edit in without them noticing.

Buggah!

SpringHeeledJack
18th May 2012, 06:15
I can only echo that which has been written so far, namely that honesty is a personal thing and of course a moveable thing, in that some situations are non-negociably followed by a credo of social thinking and yet other.....such as small items from an office (chairs, tables, carpets :}) sorry, pens/pencils etc are somehow 'ok' to keep. Like many others I have been undercharged and overcharged by supermarkets and with the sleight of hand pricing and marketing 'they' are not always being so honest themselves. The advent of self-serve registers just exacerbates the mistakes (in their favour) to my mind.

As always it's a personal thing, I know of a person who travelled without paying for 3 years on a european transport system without the slightest concern outside of the frisson of random ticket inspectors, yet freaks out if a utility bill isn't paid within a nono-second of dropping on the hallway mat :hmm: In the long run honesty always pays, though perhaps not in financial terms if we caste a weary eye on the orgy of greed being played out in the financial world over the last decade.



SHJ

stuckgear
18th May 2012, 07:43
I don't get into subjective "right or wrong" threads VT1, but
B&Q is a British multinational retailing company where a 22
quid oversight wouldn't even be noticed. Id've kept the loot
- better to have it in your pocket than theirs.

I'm not advocating "stealing" from multinationals, just if they
screw up through no fault of my own and to my financial gain
I keep my mouth firmly shut and'd put the savings to better
use.


i take your point slasher, indeed the likes of B&Q have dumpsters out back where damaged items just get binned, they also allow in their bottom line for a certain percentage of stock theft.

however; 1. i dont want any recourse back on me or my integrity and importantly;

2. the gal at the check out at my local one is a bit of a fitty, great figure and just the right amount of sass and 'tude, with a slightly skanky edge. i don't want her getting her bosses giving her problems, if she's getting discipline from anyone, it's going to be me.

ExSp33db1rd
18th May 2012, 08:23
Seven year old son came up to us whilst shopping in Boots ( The Chemists ) and said he had just found 'this', and what should he do with it ? 'This' being a carefully folded ten pound note.

I took him to the cashiers and told them that my son had found some money in the store, and if anyone came to enquire we had taken it to the Police Station around the corner. "How much have you found" they asked, "not telling you" I replied. ( knew that if I did they would suddenly find "a friend" who had coincidentally dropped a ten pound note - not that I don't trust my fellow men, you understand )

The Police Sergeant seemed taken aback that anyone had brought in money as lost property, and seemed a little at a loss as to how to handle it, but in the end he addressed my son and said " lad, I'm making you the guardian of this money for the Police, take it home and put it in a drawer and keep it for us, if in 3 months time no one has claimed it, then it becomes yours" 3 months later my son increased his total wealth by ten pounds ( and in 1970 that was a lot of money to a 7 yr. old.)

A management pilot once issued an edict that crew were not to try to bamboozle H.M. Customs with erroneous declarations in order to reduce the amount of duty payable.

Shortly afterwards I flew with him to the USA, and was present when he purchased one of those, then new, swimming pool hosepipe snorkel gadgets that moves around the pool unattended, hoovering up debris. He paid $150 dollars, or thereabouts.

Returning to UK Customs, he declared "Swimming Pool Cleaner", which of course it was, and was asked how much he had paid for it, Oh, about one fifty, he replied, OK said the Customs Hofficer, that's about 2 quid, off you go.

In the bus I told my manager never to send me a letter about fooling Customs ever again. "Not my fault", he said, " he didn't ask where the decimal point was" !!

Gordon17
18th May 2012, 09:07
A couple of years ago I went to a football match - Brentford vs Rochdale.
I followed my mate and his son through the turnstile over which a price of £17 was displayed and handed the young lad a £20 note without even speaking to him. As I walked through I noticed that he had given me £7 change and told my mate.
He said, "No, look at your ticket, he's let you in as an OAP!" - which he had. I would probably have given back the £4 if it was an arithmetic error, but was so insulted that I kept it. I was a youthful looking 52 at the time.

And a few years before that I pointed out that we had been undercharged about $160 when checking out of a hotel in Vermont, only for the receptionist to say that as I had been so honest I needn't pay. It was a family run place - probably wouldn't have happened in a chain hotel.

anotherthing
18th May 2012, 09:28
ExSp33db1rd

I must admit, the idea of paying HMG duty on goods I decide to buy outside of the UK/EU just because they are cheaper than I can get in rip-off Britain galls me...

The duty is often so much that you end up paying more than you would if you bought it in the UK. Added to that, if you do the buying through the internet, then whatever courier company is chosen to deliver it will also add an extra charge for handling, i.e. having to pick it up from customs.

Bern Oulli
18th May 2012, 09:34
B&Q. Some time ago I had a need for a battery powered steel tape measure - the sort where you press the button and the rule rigidly extends in a somewhat suggestive manner. 'Twas a Wednesday as I recall. Inside the shop was a very large notice advertising "20% off all power tools". Taking my purchase to the cash desk I was surprised that the assistant did not take off the 20%. When I enquired I was told it was not a power tool. "Is not a steel tape measure a tool, and is it not powered?" I asked. There ensued an arguement, culminating in the duty manager, a pimply youth of about 19 years, being called. The conversation that followed included references to the Trades Descriptions Act and Trading Standards, at which point the manager conceded that my tape measure was a power tool and gave me the 20% discount. The bonus of course, as it was a Wednesday, was that I then presented my "old gits" discount card and got a further 10% off!

The following week I noticed that the advertising sign had been amended to "all electric drills and sanders". Result.

stuckgear
18th May 2012, 09:39
I must admit, the idea of paying HMG duty on goods I decide to buy outside of the UK/EU just because they are cheaper than I can get in rip-off Britain galls me...


and that i do agree with. i just purchased an electronic component for one of the cars, to replace one that cannot be repaired in the UK. main dealer price for a new item £580+ VAT. Ebay UK used - 280 (with a lot of DOA items floating about). I bought one off EBAY in the USA for 200 bucks and 40 bucks shipping. Parcel force refused to deliver until £40 VAT was paid (item is used and beyond 7 years from manufacture)

now granted, i got it cheaper, but until i plug it in and make sure it works being that it is an old used item and a private sale and i'm not a business importing these in quantity, it is a tad, well, galling.

BabyBear
18th May 2012, 09:53
it is a tad, well, galling

Seems the difference is we all draw the line at different points.

Tableview
18th May 2012, 10:02
I once drew the line when after paying for a meal for myself and some mates at a Holiday Inn in CPT, I paid by credit card. This was when they still used the old machines with the vouchers that took the card's imprint.

The waitress brought me the voucher and I noticed it was red and it was a 'credit refund' voucher. I told her that it was incorrect and she stroppily told me : "Don't you tell me how to do my job." So I left it and got a credit of couple of hundred rand instead of a debit.

Slasher
18th May 2012, 10:15
See?

The CPT Holiday Inn didn't bust and go into receivership with
100s of jobs lost, the stroppy waitress got to stay all stroppy,
and the Table ended up with a free feed and a nice couple of
hundred SAR on the deal. :)

MadsDad
18th May 2012, 10:16
One has to be careful of special offers. I regularly buy beer for a mate, getting it from whichever supermarket is cheapest, excluding Mt. T. Esco (there isn't one locally). A couple of months ago I suddenly started getting large 'cashback' vouchers at Sainsburys, from their 'price matching' scheme (£8+ a time). After the second time we traced it to the fact that the beer I was phenomenally cheap at Tesco so I took in a 'bulk order' (6 packs instead of the usual 4) which would be £27 at Sainsbury but £11.96 at Tesco. After getting a £10 voucher and mentioning that it should have actually been £15.04 I was told that the conditions were '£10 max'. I'm sure this is correct and the maximum is published somewhere but not in anything I, or anyone I mentioned it to, had seen.

Daft thing is if I had bought the six packs as two threes in seperate purchases I would have got two vouchers for £8.52 - an extra couple of quid. Never got a chance though because the offer finished.

OFSO
18th May 2012, 10:23
Regarding large stores, NOT small shops or individuals: statistically errors happen in both directions and when you are charged less than you should be it happens roughly as many times as when you get over-charged. The solution to what you should do is obvious.

There are exceptions to this: when you are over or undercharged a vast amount (I'm talking in the thousands here) or when you are over or undercharged in a shop staffed by Chechnians. Or in dealing with people who have the ability to put a curse on you or cause warts to grow on your willy.

Milarity
18th May 2012, 10:59
OP, you did the right thing.

I have often queried the bill at the till because it seems wrong. I always try to have a rough idea of the total in my head and so obvious discrepancies tend to stand out. What amazes me is how often the bill is wrong for just two or three items. For example, a pint and a half pint of bitter was charged at £6.50 when the price was £2.80 a pint. When I questioned the total, the bar maid pointed to the till and told me it must be right, as the read-out clearly said so. Why were not alarm bells ringing in her head?

Top marks to Ikea, who missold 2 pieces of furniture to my wife amongst a larger order that disguised the total cost. She asked for help with some heavy items and accepted what was given to her as correct. She walked away with box 1 of 2 for a table and box 2 of 2 for some shelves, paying only for the latter. I went back to customer services to pick up the missing 2 boxes and pay the rest of the bill. The result: an apology for letting her do it and wasting my time, 2 boxes swiftly taken to my car, no more to pay (should have been £180 for the table) and a £20 note towards my petrol.

Pricing in supermarkets and so-called multi-buy discounts is a whole different thread, don’t get me started on that one! Without the basic mental arithmetic skills learned from scoring darts in my head as a kid, I would have been robbed of a small fortune.

BabyBear
18th May 2012, 11:15
There is more to the definition of 'Right Thing' than meets the eye.

For the reasons given the OP undoubtedly did the right thing for himself, it may not, however, have been the right thing for all.

The 'Right Thing' being subjective.

BB

Ancient Observer
18th May 2012, 11:20
Whilst I agree that the OP did the right thing, I am very, very, fed up with "Corporate theft" in the UK.
Recent examples....

AA renewal - always cheaper to go on the internet and join as a new member.
Car insurance renewal - always cheaper to go on the internet and shop around. Admiral Group are always cheaper on the internet than they are for renewal.
BT Broadband renewal. They do not tell you when your "special" 12 months is up, and put you back on their most expensive rate
travel insurance renewal. Ring them up and get about 30% off.

PPI - Comet et al have kept quiet about it, but they, too, are refunding PPI.

and so on..........

Fox3WheresMyBanana
18th May 2012, 11:39
Modern business (at the risk of being sued by the shareholders, i.e. hedge funds, over here in North America at least) does everything legal to maximise profit.

The law was never intended to be a moral guide, and many countries have an adversarial system which requires lawyers defend or prosecute with every legal trick in the book.

side note: I have nothing against lawyers for this; it's just been my experience that 95% of them are total gits in private life (as well)

Moral values are generally and probably best policed by those around us. Hedge fund managers, politicians, media moguls and the like no longer live in the same world as the rest of us.

Crucially, these people are no longer paying any semblance of reasonable taxes. This is what caused the collapse of the Roman Empire, and every other empire where this has happened.

Western-civilisation-as-we-know-it is not going to fall next week, but historically, revolution is inevitable.

fireflybob
18th May 2012, 13:02
I was quite excited recently to be given vouchers at M & S as I checked out for "£2 off when you spend £10" at the Deli.

Off I went this morning as I have to confess I have a craving for their Mushroom and Goats Cheese Fritata (very healthy - gluten free!), decided to buy 4 of them to top the £10 and scurry off excitedly to the checkout only to discover the fine print says the Deli counter which has recently been opened instore. I wasn't going to argue but till operator called the manager over who allowed the discount!

Tableview
18th May 2012, 13:42
Oh yes ... electronic tills. Roadside cafe, tea and KitKat, till says £9.50 or something.

"How can that be?" I ask.

"It's £1.50 for the tea and £8.00 for the KitKat"

"No", I say, "that can't be right, it must be 80p for the KitKat, the decimal point is in the wrong place."

"No, the till says £9.50 and you gotta pay it."

It ended with them threatening to call the police, which I was in favour of, but they backed down after all three staff, with a combined IQ of 12, finally agreed that the 'puter was wrong!

vee-tail-1
18th May 2012, 19:06
Thanks for responses to my OP ... have been quoting Aristotle to my son, but he is far from impressed and seems to think Voltaire might be more appropriate ...
'All is for the best in the best possible world'
:uhoh::confused:

Sunnyjohn
18th May 2012, 19:14
This was about 1976 but an incident I won't forget. I went into a local charity shop and bought myself a second-hand suede jacket in nice condition. When I got home I found fifty pounds in the inside pocket - a lot of money in 1976 - together with a business card. I phoned the number, spoke to the previous owner of the jacket and was rather stunned by his casualness at having left fifty pounds in the pocket. After a pause, I asked him if he would like his money. With the same casualness he said yes. I told him to meet me at the charity shop at an agreed date and time and I would give him twenty five pounds and the charity the same. He agreed and the deed was subsequently done. I got my jacket, he got half his money back and the charity shop were very happy.

ExSp33db1rd
19th May 2012, 00:39
.....Daft thing is if I had bought the six packs as two threes in seperate purchases ........

Supermarkets ......... Grrrr!!

Ours gives petrol discount coupons if one spends 'more then $40' but not two coupons if one spends more than $80. No dishonesty, they spell it out OK, but then I stop the till at $40+ pay and start again, and again, and again if necessary (usually when Mrs. ExS is stocking up her wine cellar with "Special Offers") thereby getting a coupon for each $40 spent. They, and the waiting queue, love me, but it's 'their' system. I end up with more coupons than I can ever use, so give them away as largesse to deserving friends !! Got to beat the Supermarkets and Oil companies somehow.

I also give the usually incapable-without-a-computer Youf the bits of loose change that make up a single bill owed back in change to me, that floors them, and it's surprising how often I win. I reckon that's fair game, after all Supermarket shopping is a game, and they usually win overall.

Slasher
19th May 2012, 03:48
the bits of loose change that make up a single bill owed back
in change to me, that floors them

I think its universal - the bill comes to 10,820 Baht, so I give
11,020 and expect a nice round 200TB in return. Simple huh?
Nope..Miss IQ of Zilch 2012 gives me back the 20 Baht, takes
the 11,000 - and hands me 180. :hmm:

Not only here but encountered in London, Paris, South Efrika,
LA, NYC, China, Taiwan, Oz, NZ.... but strangely in Japan the
checkout chicks can mentally calculate change, roundups etc
and hand back the appropriate Yen, without the look of utter
bewilderment as if the quadratic polynomials of a Mandelbrot
Set have been presented for solving.

HOGE
19th May 2012, 06:44
An honest man's pillow is his peace of mind.

SpringHeeledJack
19th May 2012, 06:51
without the look of utter
bewilderment as if the quadratic polynomials of a Mandelbrot
Set have been presented for solving.

Quote of the day mr slasher :ok: I do like those Mandelbrot Sets, so beautiful and the bread is pretty tasty too..


SHJ

Slasher
19th May 2012, 09:35
Only the German version contains quadratic polynomials (i.e.
those one's caught fresh from the four corners of the Adriatic)
SHJ rather than the simple Jewish version.

racedo
19th May 2012, 09:57
EXSp33d

Have sometimes used that one as well.

What I did enjoy when T3sco were giving 5p off fuel for buying x product but one voucher per transaction.............3 big boxes of washing powder @ £6 = £18 in 3 transaction which equated nicely to £12 off fuel as put every last damm drop in, wish I had had a empty jerry can at the time.

Tableview
19th May 2012, 11:17
Playing the system is something different. Restaurant near us offered 2 main courses for the price of 1 on production of a printed voucher.

'Only one offer per reservation' it said.

So we made two reservations, each for two people, arrived, pushed the tables together, and benefited from the offer.

ChrisVJ
19th May 2012, 16:46
Vee-Tail-One

Your boy is just about the right age to instil these lessons.

On my 14th birthday my grandmother took my younger brother and I down to Putney High Street on the bus. Along Upper Richmond Road she gave me our tickets, coloured ones in those days, as she wanted to get off at Cullens and walk down to meet us at the |high Street where we were to get off.

In those days too, 'Under 14s" rode half price. I asked her what tickets she had bought,

"What do you think?"

The very next stop an inspector got on and asked to see our tickets, what had we bought?

"One and a Half from Malbrook Road."

"Right, thank you."

A lesson remembered fifty three years later. Only needed it once.

Tableview
20th May 2012, 21:04
Thinking of lessons to teenagers. I have just had a go at mine because, clearing up after dinner, I see he's thrown a lump of Parmesan cheese - maybe 200 grams of the real stuff - into the bin. When I explained that we don't waste food he answered : "But we don't need it because there's another one and it's not as if we can't afford to buy more!"

Yes, we can afford to buy more, but I have grown up in environments where, however well off we might be, we don't waste things. I can't make him understand this and most of his friends are the same. He's not spoilt, but he just doesn't seem to get the idea of not being wasteful.

fireflybob
20th May 2012, 22:44
Yes, we can afford to buy more, but I have grown up in environments where, however well off we might be, we don't waste things. I can't make him understand this and most of his friends are the same. He's not spoilt, but he just doesn't seem to get the idea of not being wasteful.

Having had teenage sons I know what you're going through!

One useful tactic is to show them the bills!! Gas, electric, mortgage/rent, council tax (or equivalent) etc - ie show them how much it costs even before you start buying food. It can be quite an eye opener for them.

M.Mouse
20th May 2012, 23:32
An honest man's pillow is his peace of mind.

I like that quote and it definitely applies to me.

I agree chains like B & Q screw buyers with items like fuses and washers, etc. but if an individual is too lazy or stupid to take their custom elsewhere then that is their lookout. Personally I buy as little from B & Q as possible. I do not buy anything from Murdoch either, especially Sky TV.

If I am aware of being severely undercharged for something I too would try to remedy the situation.

172_driver
21st May 2012, 00:02
I thought this was an rationale answer from your son.

Later I recounted the scene to my 14 year old son and asked what he would do ... his answer genuinely shocked me. In his opinion it was a gift, since no one at B&Q would care, and they are a big firm with lots of money. It would be different he said if it was a small local store, and he would go back to pay the full amount.


Every day we self maximize our own profit and within reason I see no problem with that. Society is not fair, simply being richh means you are stealing from the poor, we download films, music for free, we dump our shit and it ends up in landfills in Africa, contract pilots skip out on paying taxes. In all walks of life people try to self maximize their own profit or convenience. I don't agree with all practices out there, but that's the way things are. That's also why I thought your 14 year old son's suggestion was very down to earth and in line with every day life. He recognizes that a small mom & pop store would be much more vulnerable to an economic blow (£15 in this case) than a big corporation. And for a small amount like that I probably couldn't be arsed with going back into the store either.

I once bought an AR.Drone Parrot (AR.Drone Parrot - First quadricopter that can be controlled by an iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad and Android (http://ardrone.parrot.com/parrot-ar-drone/usa)) from Brookstone in the US. It didn't work, one of the propellers didn't spin up to speed so it would flip over as it took off. Brookstone has a shitty return policy. They refused to return it despite it was a malfunctioning product and referred me to the manufacturer (Parrot). A brief google search told me that lots of people have had problems with returns/repairs with this particular product and Parrot is not a very big company. Call it in spite, but I had spent $300 on something and got nothing. :{ Went back to the Brookstone, bought a second one, opened the box seals very carefully with a hair dryer, switched the Drones and reattached the seals. ONLY… with an unopened box and a receipt they could accept the return. HA! :E Do I feel bad? In a way.. because the malfunctioning one was likely sold on to some other poor sod. But to Brookstone a returned toy would mean nothing while to a kid it would mean everything.