Decorum with EK posts

[jack schidt]

Like many here (at EK ) I am a driver and no way associated with management. However, post bonus announcement and pay increase review, I am somewhat concerned at the standard and wording of some posts.

We all know times are tough, I agree this years announcement was a great disappointment and work has never been harder with fewer reserves ( FUEL ). However, derogatory chat about the company and talking about slowdowns etc may see posting about EK go the way of the Etihad chat shutdown and that would be a shame. If you have a point, make it, but being verbally outraged and threatening ( OUR ) EK thread will be a great loss of some informative posts here. So if you don't like what you are given then you have a choice, to take a free firm flight out, it's your choice, so bite the bullet as many other airline pilots do or IF you know of a better airline then please go and enjoy it there (and tell us all about it please when there, if it really is that much better).

Just a post to say, whatever Etihad did to lockdown no posting on here could happen to the EK posts and I would hate that to happen. Make points but not threats!

Fly safe.

[widered]

If EK shut down the ability for pilots to communicate I am sure the long list of applications they have will soon dwindle into a handfull.
The reason EK is so attractive to many is that belief that EK treat their staff with some respect.

[White Knight]

If EK shut down the ability for pilots to communicate I am sure the long list of applications they have will soon dwindle into a handfull.

Complete nonsense:ugh::ugh::ugh: There will always be plenty of applicants...

[Payscale]

As if a normal thinking human being would make career decisions based om Pprune!

[Gulf News]

If EK shut down the ability for pilots to communicate I am sure the long list of applications they have will soon dwindle into a handfull.
The reason EK is so attractive to many is that belief that EK treat their staff with some respect.

The other UAE airline that begins with "E" did exactly that but I bet they have no shortage of applicants. Does say a lot about the mentality in the region and how dissent is viewed.

I agree with Jack though. Keep things civil and unemotional, that way we can preserve what respect our profession still has in the wider community.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

E is getting more positive feed back, according to a Pilot friend, who will not be mentioned.
E tells me with the PPrune gagging, the internal morals have improved....

But I would rater fly the other E that that E, as a matter of principle, (I have a few remaining.)

Glf

[Alconguin Crusader]

Jack what flavor Kool-Aid are you drinking. I sure could use some after the shafting we got last week.

[Bindair Dundat]

Jack,

Well done, that was the most verbose and flowery "if you don't like it, leave" post that I have ever seen.
As much as you have a point and it makes good sense to use some decorum on these sites, why do you think things get so heated on here in the first place? Because no one else is listening and there is no where else to go?
I don't think it is coincidence that the Middle Eastern and Asian forums are the most widely visited and posted on. Management at all these airlines don't give a rat's about any of their expat pilots. You are simply a very expensive and required annoyance to them.
The fact that Etihad silenced the troops on this forum is beyond a disgrace and I sincerely doubt it has helped moral at all. It has just made people more afraid. But that was their goal anyway, and it worked didn't it? For now...until silencing people becomes a complete detriment to them. But it's okay for now. If you live in the Middle East for an extended period, you either have a straw day and see the light and get out or you believe you have no more choices and turn a blind eye to all that irks you. I suspect that if people did not have somewhere to vent, their heads might explode...god forbid that happens in the cockpit.

[cerbus]

I love the If you don't like it leave attitude. Can we get off that line of crap. I know the Arabs specialize in that style but it is the worst form of management I can think of. Why don't we change it for the better instead of just walking away.

[jack schidt]

Thanks for the replies. I don't stand for why anyone would say we get an awful deal/shafting and then gladly continue to work for the company even though they post on here about how bad it all is when they have a choice, like it or lump it. Surely an educated person would not hang around here if they knew the grass was greener elsewhere! I was recently out of the country for a while and I tell you, when away you can see the crazy austerity in the Eurozone and America blindly holding up hope of a sound future with continued debt to fund growth.

If you really want my opinion, not all at EK are bitter, they pay for my Kids to be educated, they give me a nice house for no rent and all amenities paid for, as well as a chauffeur to take me to work. I have received several years of nice bonus when other company's are laying people off and my salary is pretty good on the global pilot stage.

However, like the majority I am bitter there is a 15bill cash pot and work has become ever harder over the years. When I balance the pro's and con's I still am not ready to take that free ticket and jump on the bird of freedom!

Should any of you feel that your package is below what you think is acceptable, then please DO make that decision to PUT UP OR SHUT UP, or even GO UP on that flight home or to wherever.

1 year of no bonus and some people act and cry like children, contract or not, you got your 3% which is a bonus as some company's have been on a pay freeze for 8 years and a bonus has never been on the table. Realise what you have and stop the greed, if you feel you are having a hard time living on an EK drivers salary you need medical help!

And by the way, I don't post on or even drink happy juice, some people here post with such anger that I feel they have an emotional or personal problem elsewhere!

Back to the theme of the original post, discuss issues but threats made behind a hidden name is as brave as shooting someone in the back when they are helpless and defenceless. Immaturity and slander here could see EK threads heading the way of Etihad threads and that would be a shame for the more intellectually mature posters here.

I shall say no more........

[BYMONEK]

Jack

The 3% is not a bonus. It's an increment that is paid to reflect loyalty and seniority. Those airlines that use these scales pay incremental steps yearly, regardless of salary increases. For some bizzare reason, HR have stopped publishing these scales. This is convenient as it now implies the increments should not be paid out automatically. That's a disgrace as far as I'm concerned and the reason why I do not consider it in any way a 'pay rise'.

Whilst I agree that the bonus rules are what they are, to not receive an actual pay increase given the constant rise in the cost of living in Dubai is disappointing. From a Company that's achieved a damn good profit regardless of what the target was is a poor reflection on how it's staff are actually perceived. Thanks for the appreciation letter but words are cheap. That profit of over $600 million would not have been possible without front line staff working their butts off the last few years with cabin crew routinely doing 120 hours per month. Engineers and pilots have also seen increases in productivity with no comensurate rise in remuneration.

Yes it's in our interest to work hard. The Company benefits and by de facto, so do we with job security. However, that argument might work when the chips are down but quite frankly, it's bloody insulting when everyone is working as hard as they are and the Company is one of only a handful to make profit. If I'd been allocated my contractual 42 days of leave, I might have accepted more easily the lack of bonus or pay increase. However, to achieve that profit on the back of bad planning is insulting. I do not doubt for one single minute that all the office staff have been allocated their full annual leave entitlement.

What's the cash reserve they're always boasting about? 15 billion or something? Perhaps a little bit of that could have offset the 200 million that was probably spent on 'Hello Tomorrow', which, for what it's worth, is rather a let down.

Pilots will not leave and I doubt many will even bother to write to JA or AS expressing their disappointment. This will always be the outlet in which to articulate their frustrations. You reap what you sow in this World and already we're seeing this. More failures on upgrades, inexperienced trainers, varying standards, outsourced training venues, less knowledgable and far more inexperienced and unsuitable cabin crew, increasing engineering issues with commensurate reduction in experienced line engineers, dispatch errors due to undermanning in flight planning, managers with little or no empowerment to actually support crew, crew operating sick due fear factor, clinic appointments becoming harder to achieve and so it goes on.

One day, something will break. If the Company don't start consolidating and investing in people instead of being obsessed with growth and profit, profit, profit, that day may be tomorrow. And we will not be saying hello!

[jack schidt]

I wasn't going to bother posting in this thread again, but a post very well written Bymon, good points all well made and I second your words entirely!

[Seat99k]

Couldn't agree more. As I said in other post what can we do as a group to change this?

[donpizmeov]

Just a reminder that those on the top pay scale did not receive any increase in salary.

The Don

[Dropp the Pilot]

That is interesting, Don.

Even more interesting is that if you are indeed at the top of the scale your basic salary plus flight pay will yield you 725 dirhams per hour if you fly 90 hours. If you continue to fly past 90 hours the company will bless you with 600 dirhams per hour.

In other words, should you go into "productivity" you are offering your bleached bones to the company for a 15% discount on your normal hourly rate.

This is a principal which has worked well for Walmart but professionals might rankle at bulk discounts for services.

[BigGeordie]

Excellent posting by Bymonek, especially the part warning about the dangers of chasing profit at the expense of everything else.

[cerbus]

Won't happen here that is for sure!