Who were your childhood flying heroes?

[Stan Sted]

How did you get hooked on flying? Were you influenced by books, comics, film and television characters or did the bug bite during that first joyflight?

For me it was a mixture of Biggles book (I must have read the lot, reckon Spitfire Parade was the best and still have some first editions tucked away) Matt Braddock and Rockfist Rogan from boy's comics in the Fifties and Sixties, Garry Halliday in the BBC TV series, great war films and wartime documentaries and a glider flight from North Weald as soon as I was old enough to fly in one.

[ 27 December 2001: Message edited by: Stan Sted ]</p>

[BeauMan]

According to my parents, I've always had a deep seated desire to go upwards ever since I was born. I went from lying down to sitting; sitting to crawling; crawling to standing up; missed out on walking (because that was along, not up!) and just started climbing stuff; chairs, stairs, tables, kitchen work surfaces, ladders.

Eventually my folks just came to the conclusion that I wanted to be 'up there', which was finally confirmed when they took me to an airshow at Duxford in the seventies when I saw my first Spitfire. And you know, I've never really been right since... <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[foxmoth]

Biggles and D.Bader, met DB in later years, very bullish, but if he hadn't been he wouldn't have done what he did. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[New Bloke]

Even before I read my first Biggles book I wanted to fly, but Biggles put the seal on it. To be more like Biggles I took up smoking at 12 and started hating Germans <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> . I think every Biggles book starts with “Biggles looked down from 12000’ and lit a cigarette”

I remember as a kid growing up in Orpington seeing the Aircraft going to and from the Battle-of-Britain Airshows at Biggin and it seemed a non-stop stream of “V” Bombers, Jets and fighters old and new. Once my Folks took me to the show that was it!!!

My heroes were Any Battle-of-Britain Pilot, John Farley (what sort of thrill was it for me a couple of weeks ago?), Virgil Tracey (Thunderbird two pilot) Bill Bedford, John Cunningham, Brian Trubshaw, Ray Hannah, and of the non-flying type, Graham Hill, Jimmy Greaves and Donald Campbell.

I wonder who my Son will try to be like – There don’t seem to be so many famous Pilots nowadays, shame.

[BeauMan]

Apart from my previously mentioned desire to constantly increase my altitude <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> , there were a few people whose histories and exploits have always had an inspiring effect on me: Douglas Bader and Guy Gibson, were the two whose names meant a great deal in my formative years, and these were later joined by Bob Stanford Tuck (as explained in a post I prepared earlier).

Since then, as far as flying is concerned, my role models are basically anyone who has logged more hours than I have. Needless to say, that list is very long and distinguished. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[Vfrpilotpb]

Whilst a very small but a highly motivated youngster in the early fiftys, I was always being told to " eat your carrots, Thats what Cats Eyes Cunningham eats" so wanting to be just like him I ate my carrots, then Peter Twiss came along and Neville Duke, along with racing drivers like Stirling Moss, and Mike Hawthorn, Jim Clarke, Paddy Hopkirk and many more I think every new generation have their very own special Hero's, who we can all bring back to a special day or event in our live's. :)

[InFinRetirement]

For me it has to be at the time of the war starting when I lived just a trio of miles from Croydon. All the pilots were my heroes then, every one of them. It got hooked on flying and it never left me for an instant.

The best bit was when, at the Xmas Gatbash last year, I actually met some of those very same pilots - all my heroes. A thrill beyond measure.

Since then I have met other flying heroes. Then I realise I am still really just a boy at heart.

[DOC.400]

Not so much heroes, but who/what made me want to fly:

He never flew, but Leonardo da Vinci; my uncle for taking me up in his Robin over Cheltenham when I was 12; the pilot of a Dornier 228 on my honeymoon in Greece who flew back to Rhodes from Karpathos in formation with another Do228; my instructor on the second part of the trial lesson (bought by my wife) for doing a wingover.

Lots of small events that got me hooked!!

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I took my first flight when I was about three months old, my mother laid me down on the kitchen table and I fell off. My flight ended on my head on the kitchen floor and I was brain damaged to the point that I wanted to fly again.

Then, I found another way to fly listening to the radio ( the kind with that green tuning eye ) and following the Battle of Britian. I made up my mind I would someday fly a Spitfire. (havent yet.)

My heroes were the battle of Britian pilots.

....................

:) The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. :)

[Skycop]

I don't know the name of my boyhood hero, I only remember what he did.

He stood that Lightning on it's tail at Farnborough and disappeared vertically, forever upwards. I was almost unable to breathe because of that glorious noise of two Avon's at full power and in reheat causing my 5 year old chest to vibrate.

Him and that Mosquito pilot clipping a flag on the display marshalls' marquee.

And that Vulcan pilot nearly clipping my flag off as he ran in over the Farnborough shops to begin his display....

Mind you, they hadn't invented display lines then.

Or colour.

[CoodaShooda]

My pet theory is that you're born with the interest and that leads you to the literature/activities.

I still have vague memories of flights on Viscounts and Electras as a toddler and the first book I read by myself was about a 'wittle aewoplane'. But there was no family pressure/influence towards things aviation. In fact, the family history was on the rolling seas.

Nevertheless, I became a voracious reader of everything and anything I could get my hands on; be it Biggles, Biographies, Aircraft Histories. My biggest heroes were probably real people from WW1/2 but no one character/person stands above the rest.

None of my siblings shared the interest but I was obviously keen enough; as as soon as funds allowed I did a TIF at the age of 15. Funds and opportunity restricted me to literature until 18 when I soloed and gained a PPL.

At 20, job security and income took centre stage and I moved away from the aviation scene. Family followed and there was little time or money for anything other than the occasional book/mag. So my children have not been brought up in an air minded family environment.

However, all three of them demand to be taken to the occasional air show when we have them and to sit at the end of the runway when the major air exercises are on. The eldest (16) has suddenly started asking about a flying career, the second (13)is an air cadet and definitely wants to be a professional and the third (9)wants an NBA contract so he can afford to buy a private jet <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> .

While our age of heroes may be passing, I believe the desire to fly is strong enough in our children that they will find their own heroes/motivations to help them achieve their dreams...just as we have done. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Happy New Year all :)

[henry crun]

CS: Your theory is true in my case, I cannot remember back far enough to the time when I wasn't interested in aircraft and flying.
No one in my family before or since has shown the same interest.

My strong desire to be a pilot was strengthened during WW2 as I watched the battle being fought overhead southern England
So my heroes were none that I knew by name but anyone on our side up there, guns blazing and driving off the enemy.

[innuendo]

Started out by cycling to the airport to see the daily BEA Viking arriving in Gibraltar. Also watched the RAF Shakletons (Mk1) come and go with the occasional Lincoln. The day a flight of Canberras went through was something.
At school aside from memorizing the Observers Book of Aircraft I knew Pierre Clostermann's books cover to cover. Likewise Neville Duke and Mike Lithgow's. Paul Brickhill's books on Douglas Bader and the Dambusters, ditto.
My uncle flew around with Bader ocasionally when he (Bader) was in charge of Shell oil's aviation section.
I also read avidly, Adolph Galland's book "The First and the Last" and a book by Heinz Knoke called "I flew for the Fuhrer"
Finally I managed to get hold of an RAF Flying Training Manual that had been pen and ink amended up to 1940. I still have it. Quite a contrast to the latest aircraft I flew.

[CoodaShooda]

I can see this forum becoming bigger than R&N :)


Mmmmemories are made of these...... :)

[Kermit 180]

My passion for flying came from living near Wigram, NZ's oldest military aerodrome, where RNZAF CFS used to fly Harvards. I remember looking over the window sill to watch the colourful aircraft circuiting overhead and watching the lights move around the sky at night.

Then I started reading the 'Biggles' books and collecting the weekly 'Battle' comic, lots of WW2 stories (mostly fantasy but a good motivator to read more about flying as I got older). When I was old enough I joined the air cadets and started gliding, the rest is history.

As for chilhood aviation heroes, definitely on my list are all Battle of Britain pilots especially Bader, Biggles the book character, Richtofen of WW1 fame, and later Sir Charles Kingsford-Smith and his Southern Cross Fokker trimotor.

Kermie <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[Trinity 09L]

Five years at a school alongside Croydon Aerodrome, then working airside at LHR, and when the endowment money arrived spent it on a PPL, better late than never <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Tiger_ Moth]

I never really had any flying heroes because I grew up (am growing up) in a time where flying is not as special as it was 60 years ago when only very few could take part in it. 60 years ago flying was really popular with everyone so Biggles etc became popular but nowadays there is no demand for that.
I am interested in the golden age of aviation so I would say all first and second world war flyers are my heroes but more specifically people like Cecil Lewis who ive read about. However I wasnt hooked on aviation due to this, I read it because I was hooked.
The odd thing is that I didnt always like aviation, I only got into it when I was about 11 possibly due to a trip to Farnborough but I dont really know. Also when I first liked flying I didnt care about anything that wasnt a mach 3 jet but I then liked "the golden age of aviation" and I cant remember exactly when or why even though it was only about 4 years ago. I didnt like it because of stuff I read though, I read stuff about it because I liked it. I was definitely completley hooked on flying after a ride in a Tiger Moth though.

[skua]

Like others, Bigglesdominated my reading as soon as I could get past Jack & Jill.

Gary Halliday (see another thread for explanation) made Saturday afternoons very worthwhile on the box.

And once my Dad realised I had the bug (he had had but got sidetracked into the Army), he took me to airshows at Church Fenton and Finningley, where I gazed in raptures at the Black Arrows.

I still want a black Hunter.....

[BEagle]

It was probably Sir George Cayley's coachman who used to talk about being made to fly by his master - and there were those two Yanks from Kitty Hawk who told me that they were getting bored with bikes.......

No, seriously it was a combination of living 1/2 mile from the threshold of RAF Merryfield's RW26 when 208 AFS was there - plus the odd visiting ac such as Canberras and, on one occasion, a Lancaster which had flown down all the way from Kinloss with salmon for the Officers' Mess dining-in night! There were many military aircraft flying around at low level in those days such as Sea Venoms, Wyverns, Sabres, then Hunters - and even the odd Mossie from the CAACU at Exeter. I also used to go with my father to Dunkeswell, Lulsgate and Weston Zoyland on his business - and there was the annual Yeovilton Air Show; I can still remember the Avro 707C, the Scimitar and the Sea Vixen making their appearances there. We all knew about the household names of John Cunningham, Bill Bedford, John Derry, Peter Twiss (1132 mph in the Fairey Delta 2!), etc etc - the newspapers reported the 707/Comet 4 transatlantic contest, the London-Paris race, the feats of the Black Arrows (saw them at Merryfield's last proper air show in 1958!).......

On TV there was 'Gary Halliday' and the occasional flying programme (plus our TV would sometimes pick up interference from Merryfield GCA!!), the 'Air War Picture Library' (all the Germans, sorry, 'Jerries' could be guaranteed to say things like "Ach Himmel" and "Achtung Schpitfeuer!") and 'Biggles' made a pleasant change from Kennedy's Latin Primer. Airfix, Revell, Frog, Aurora, Lindbergh, Keil Kraft and Veron all played their part as did the frequent visits from a Hunter pilot friend of the family who would give me the odd recce journal and 'Air Clues' to read....My first flight was in a Piper Carribean in 1962, first military flight was in a Sea Vixen in 1966!

I guess that I was just very fortunate to live in an area where there was a lot of military flying from the days of the Meteor to the arrival of the RN's Phantom; aviation was often in the news and air-mindedness was very common - the bug bit me at a very early age!!

[TRIMTRABB]

Were and still are Bader and Gibson.
Had 'Over to you' for christmas and has prompted me to find out more about R.Dahl....(Going Solo - anyone read?)

[ 30 December 2001: Message edited by: TRIMTRABB ]</p>

[DOC.400]

Can recommend Roal Dahl's 'Going Solo' -very entertaining, and not nearly as bloodthirsty or gross as his children's books!!!!!!!

DOC

[Airking]

Bob Hoover,Neville Duke,Chuck Yeager...and not to forget that greyhaired PANAM-captain that gave the tiny Panam B707 model when I was 6...

[BEagle]

...and asked if you'd ever seen a grown man naked in the shower, had a dog rub against your leg or whether you liked gladiator movies??

But aviation had a higher profile in the mid'50s. Even cereal packets had profile balsawood model Comets, Brittanias and DC7Cs inside. BOAC had the 'Junior Jet Club' for children travelling back from overseas to their schools, you could watch the goings on from airport balconies whilst having afternoon tea (yes - people did such things in those days!).....

[ 30 December 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]</p>

[fantom]

1. dad in RAF. went to the 'astra'(station cinema) and watched Dam Busters about six times that week. I was about nine yrs old.
2. got a job at southend airport cleaning vikings and viscounts. had a look at the cockpit and thought..........hmmm (aged 17)
3. joined the firm and they gave me gnats;hunters and phantoms to fly.
4. who knows where it starts? maybe it is in the tea. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[fantom]

vfrpilot!!!
goodness, nearly forgot!
Cats Eyes Cunningham pinned my wings on my uniform in 1967 and I have the foto to prove it..... <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Air Ace]

Lores Bonney. Sadly almost forgotten...

<a href="http://users.chariot.net.au/~theburfs/bonney.html" target="_blank">http://users.chariot.net.au/~theburfs/bonney.html</a>

Other Aussie heros: <a href="http://users.chariot.net.au/~theburfs/index_person.html" target="_blank">http://users.chariot.net.au/~theburfs/index_person.html</a>

[Unwell_Raptor]

I still have my personally signed photo of Douglas Bader, dated 1954.

[Steepclimb]

No pilot heroes except perhaps Neil Williams for a time.
I suspect it was in the genes already, but my earliest remembered moment was a low level scrap between, I think an SE5 and a Fokker one summer evening, over (just about) the fields just behind my house.
Even now I can feel the excitement I felt at that moment. I felt I could reach out and touch the pilots.

No, it wasn't 1917, just a movie. But these two were on some kind of private no holds barred duel after hours, out of sight of the director. It was real enough for me though. A never to be forgotten moment.
Richard Bach was involved in the movie, I often wondered if he was one of the pilots?

There was never any question, what my career was going to be after that.

Pity it never happened.

[New Bloke]

I nearly forgot to mention one very influential figure from my Childhood.

Mr Hilton from Leesons Hill Primary school, Orpington.

The Girls hated Mr Hilton because he could be distracted so easily from the prepared lesson. “Did you ever fly a Spitfire Mr Hilton?” would ensure us a morning full of war stories and an escape from boring old maths, history or whatever the planned lesson was that day. He spoke of “hanging on the prop”, “shooting down Gerry”, “being shot down by Gerry”, flying a tiger moth into a gale so strong that he actually flew backwards - and his Son. His son was a FJ pilot in the RAF, whenever a jet appeared he would drop whatever he was doing and rush to the window. “That’s my Son up there” he would exclaim to a half delighted, half appalled class, “He phoned me up last night and told me he had flown at 10000mph, quite extraordinary as we used to fly backwards”.

As this was 35 years ago, I guess the old boy (he seemed ancient even then) is no longer with us and I will never know if his stories were real (what my heart wants)or (as my head tells me) BS. If they were real he had a very varied career and must have served in Fighter, Bomber, and even Coastal command as it seemed every Airfix plane we bought in to school he had flown.

Thinking back on it I probably should have got in touch with him in the early 80s when I first became a pilot, I’m sure he would have been pleased for me.

[Bus429]

This topic is proof, if proof were needed, that the Aviation History & Nostalgia forum is the best of bunch by far (IMHO). Keep it coming!

[Bus429]

Forgot to mention my heroes! I'd have to say they are too numerous and diverse to mention but the pioneers must stand out.
We have all read accounts of outstanding bravery manifesting itself, particularly in wartime. What of the WOP/Air Gunner (whose name escapes me) who clambered out onto a Wellington's wing to put out an engine fire?
Have you ever considered that many other similar acts must have taken place with less fortunate results and, as a consequence, we will never know or acknowledge them?
As a little aviation quiz, look through your books to find reference to Flt Sgt Arthur Aaron who died, aged 19, shortly after landing his badly damaged Stirling after a raid on Milan.
Consider also those at the Ministry of Supply, or wherever, who stipulated that the hatches of some aircraft were to be so designed so as to discourage evacuation. Was this really the case?

[You want it when?]

Heros - Has to be the bomber pilots of WW2. I was brought up on a diet of the old B&W Dambusters / 633 Sqdn movies the Aeronauts (anyone remember them?).

Course it helped that my father flew as a Nav on various types - Varsity, Vulcans, Shackeltons upto the mid 70s when he was RIF'd. He'd bring moral outrage from my sisters CND / Save the Ant types when he admited to flying / aiming nuclear weapons. He always said he preferred them as he didn't need to be so accurate as he did with iron bombs.

All I ever wanted to be was a pilot - but time and eyesight etc.. delayed me joining the air brigade. Currently only half way though a PPL (20 years later than I wanted it) but the Mrs has curtailed my flying after a number of scarey incidents whilst I was learning. Some my fault and some others who I wouldn't rate command of a skateboard too.

[Gainesy]

No pilot heroes as such but grew up in Finningley village. One of my earliest memories is of Meteor pilots waving back to me as they taxied past;I must have been three or four and I think they were possibly the local RAuxAF lot, 616Sqn--anybody have a Finningley 50s history?

Then later the Valiants moved in, then the Vulcans (the Station Flight still had an Anson). A couple of the Valiants and at least one of the Vulcans were silver, not white. Trying to get to sleep while the Vulcans did engine runs until 2 or 3 in the morning with no hush house.
***
Also saw a lot of the BCBS Lincolns and Pigs (Varsity) from just down the road at Lindholme. Lots of PDs, and of course the annual BoB display (one, in about 1962, included a Beaufighter). Airfield attacks by half a dozen Lincolns with simulated flak by crews lobbing out thunderflashes, Rockape Bofors guns replying with blanks and Meatboxes making slashing attacks, great stuff. Later the shows would begin with a four-ship Vulcan scramble, simultaneous start of all 16 Olympi then off in less than 90sec
***
A very whizzy white thing beat the $hit out of the airfield for about five minutes one summer's afternoon-- prototype Buccaneer. Also remember a visit by Princess Margeret when the Blue Diamonds Hunter team gave a display.
***
Hmm... always seemed to be sunnier then. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Edited to edit it.

[ 02 January 2002: Message edited by: Gainesy ]</p>

[Kermit 180]

The man who clambered out onto the wing of the inflight Vickers Wellington to extinguish an engine fire was SGT Pilot Jimmy Ward, V.C. No.75 (NZ) SQN RAF, from Wanganui NZ. (No.75 SQN RAF was an original RFC SQN that was 'donated' to the RNZAF post war as a sign of gratitude for the endeavours of its NZ wartime crews; sadly this Squadron (flying the A-4K and TA-4K Skyhawk) is presently being disbanded as part of the RNZAF Strike Force). SGT PIlot Ward V.C. was lost two months after being awarded the V.C. when the Wellington he was commanding was shot down by anti aircraft fire.

[CoodaShooda]

Thanks for the bio Kermie.
I'd always thought Jimmy Ward was a Flt Eng. A brave man regardless.
Vale 75 (NZ) Sqdn <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

Slightly off topic, I've seen a couple of posts that refer to Closterman's 'le Grand Charles' as a Typhoon. Readers of the Big Show will recall that he only did a couple of trips in Tiffies during transition to Tempests. JF-C was a Tempest V.

[Kermit 180]

SGT Ward V.C. was definitely a Wellington pilot, Coodashooda. Although now you mention it, I do recall a story about a flight engineer who made a similar trip onto a wing to extinguish a fire, like Ward minus his parachute. I recall that this particular crewman fell in the slipstream (I recall that it may have been a Short Stirling bomber). He fell from a very high altitude to land in (i think) a swamp with minor injuries. Maybe someone else reading this can help to verify the correct version of events.

[CoodaShooda]

No argument here Kermie, was trying to thank you for setting me straight. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

My fading memory was convinced the story I'd read as a young 'un had him down as the Engineer. Wouldn't be the first time an historian got it wrong. :)

I've heard of several cases of aircrew surviving long drops w/o parachutes but they seemed to relate to Lancaster tail gunners. Must have been a bu**er of an existence.

[henry crun]

CoodaShooder, I'm sure your last remark is very true.

Not long after the war I was a starry eyed air training corp cadet visiting a Lancaster station, and was shown round one by a hoary old single winger.

We came to the rear turret and he destroyed my then somewhat glamorous view I then had of flying and the war by relating in very gory detail some of the events he had witnessed.

Apparently it was not uncommon on return from a bad sortie for the larger pieces to be removed from the rear turret before the remaining mess was hosed out !

In another thread several people commented on the fact that their relatives were reluctant to talk about their wartime experiences.
Recalling my story I can understand why.

[ 03 January 2002: Message edited by: henry crun ]</p>

[CoodaShooda]

Agreed Mr Crun
I was going to make reference to the hosing out but am of fragile sensibilities. <img src="redface.gif" border="0">

Its a great pity that our modern usage has all but destroyed the true meaning of the title 'hero'. The memory of these men and women deserves better.

[Bus429]

Cooda - noting your location, you must have some information about the numerous airfields that were built in the Northern Territory during the war. On holiday there earlier this year, we travelled along a stretch of highway that was adjacent to, or part of, an old WW 2 base. Might be worth starting another thread about some of these bases.

[ 03 January 2002: Message edited by: Bus429 ]</p>

[CoodaShooda]

Bus429
Hope you enjoyed your holiday.
There are a number of wartime fighter strips alongside the Stuart Hwy between Darwin and Adelaide River (Spitfire, P-40, Boomerang, Beaufighter in the main). While a couple were maintained up to the mid-80's as emergency landing sites for fast jets (particularly Mirages) out of Darwin, they're falling in to disrepair now.
Darwin, itself was completed just in time for the Japs to bomb it on 19 Feb 1942. The earlier Civil Aerodrome is now Ross Smith Ave.
Bomber strips such as Fenton are similarly in disrepair, although Batchelor, where McArthur landed on Australian soil after his flight from the Philipines, is still very active.
McDonnell(sp?) near Pine Creek is well back from the highway but signposted. It hits you as a surprise when, in the middle of the bush, you suddenly come across a large sealed ex-B25 strip that's still usable.
You're right that the history of the area circa 1941-44 would require its own thread(s). Several books have been written about local operations.
Rather than blather on, if anyone has a specific area of interest, let me know and I'll see what I can provide.
To keep this on thread, everyone who served in this climate (36+C/95% humidity) in the primitive conditions then prevailing qualifies for the 'hero' apellation. :)

[BeauMan]

Gainesy - sorry, a little bit late coming back on this, but you mentioned a Beaufighter flying at Finningley around '62; I thought the last one flew in the Far East in 1960, but would love to be proved wrong. After all, it was a few years before my arrival...

Looking forward to seeing a Beau take to the air again (eventually!) :)

[Gainesy]

BeauMan,
It was around 62, but could have been 61 (or 60 or 63--long time ago). The aircraft underside was in yellow/black diagonal stripes, I think the top/sides were silver and it had a long/deep (dorsal) fin strake.

I'll never forget the noise it made, just a faint whistling as it approached, then you could just hear the engines as it drew level, then "full piston audio" as it departed.

I think it was last operated by one of the target tug flights in Malta or Singapore. It did not land at FY so may have appeared at other BoB shows in that year as many stations were open and aircraft would tour the various venues throught the day.

Love to hear/see one fly again, that was the only time I ever did. Didn't some of them get flogged to Portugal as target tugs?

[BEagle]

The only reference I can find states that 'May 12 1960 saw the last flight by a Beaufighter in RAF service when a TT10 (RD 761) made its final trip as a target-tower from RAF Seletar'.

The TT10 did indeed have the yellow and black diagonal underside markings; whilst the last RAF operational sortie was made in 1960, what happened to the Beaus after then?

[Stan Sted]

I believe a Beau is being rebuilt to flying condition by one of the many restoration groups at Duxford.

Can anyone confirm?

[Intersection]

My hero has to be Douglas Bader and Grp Capt Duncan Smith their stories have put pride into my heart and willed me to fly and fly and fly!!!.

Ohh and my first experience flight when I was in air cadets!!. &gt;-)--

Happy flying to you all!!!

Int. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[ 06 January 2002: Message edited by: Intersection ]</p>

[BeauMan]

Stan Sted - Yes, there's an ex-Aussie Mk21 (A19-144) being restored by The Fighter Collection at Duxford. There's also the ex- RAF Halton 'Cockpit Classroom' Mk 1F (X7688) being restored by Skysport Engineering; that's the beast I help out with.

Gainesy - Thanks for the description of how the Beau sounded. I'm a bit young to have ever heard one, unfortunately.

Talking of the Cockpit Classroom, and bearing in mind the wealth of experience of many on this forum, this seems like quite a good place to ask whether anyone here has any memories of X7688 while she was attached to a hut at Halton...?

[polzin]

In about 1947 in Akron, Ohio were several thousand Corsairs were built, my dad would walk me down to the airport on Saturday mornings when the National Guard would fly. The airplanes taxied out , ran up, and disappeared. BIg Deal ! But on the way home we went past a railroad yard . They stayed there for hours, hissed for no explainable reason, and were enormous up close. Sooo, I didnt have any childhood heroes. Now however I have a couple. Wayne Handley ,who invented aerobatic maneuvers and did the best airshows I have ever seen. Unfortunately a couple years ago the engine of his aircraft on the down side of a loop done right after take-off and he has retired.. His aircraft weighed 1500 lbs. and had a 750 HP engine. It climbed to 10,000 feet in 90 seconds. The other is Ernst Udet. Not for his association with the Nazis but only for his ability to fly. Ive seen movies and it was spectacular. I met a pilot who said he never flew aerobatics at a show if Udet was there because he did not want to embarass himself.

[Fris B. Fairing]

Aviation heroes? Mine always was and always will be Smithy regardless of what revisionist historians tell us. For sheer empathy with an aeroplane he was the greatest. Coming a close second is P.G. Taylor who was something special because he could also write about flying, which he did brilliantly in several books. Taylor's heroism in the mid-air oil transfer in the Southern Cross over the Tasman while Smithy kept the crippled aeroplane airborne will take some beating.

[Tricky Woo]

Hmm, everyone seems to have pounced on all my usual heroes... however there's one that dear to my heart that has been omitted thus far:

Francis Chichester was obvious dead, dead famous for sailing around the world all on his tod. Fair enough, but few people remember that he was actually a fairly accomplished pilot in his youth. His first 'boat' was actually a DeHavilland Gypsy Moth fitted with leaky floats. In this he decided to cross the straits between New Zealand and Australia, no mean feat in those days.

In order to save himself the embarrassment of missing his fuel stop on some diddy little island halfway across, he literally invented a new method of navigation using compass and stopwatch which seemed to have worked 'cos he lived to tell the tale.

The book which is as badly written as the rest of 'em is called Solo to Sydney. Badly written or not, his description of his feelings as he crossed the straits had my heart firmly in my mouth for page after page.

He actually got as far as Japan on this floatplane trip, but it all ended in tears when he hit a cable stretched across some harbour mouth or other. He decided to taken up sailing after that. Of course, he simply had to name his boats after his first love...

TW

[gratlump]

This is my first posting on this forum so Hello to everyone.

I have many heros, mainly from WWII. My greatest admiration goes to Adolf Galland. I have read his book 'The First and The Last' and thoroughly enjoyed his experiences, thoughts and views both on air combat, aircraft development and the German High Command. I certainly don't share the views of the Nazi Party (no flames please) as neither did Mr Galland.

My real hero though has to me my uncle. During WWII he was a Lancaster pilot. As a mere teenager he had to deal with the full horrors of war. When I was 13 (back in 1979) I sat down with him at a cousins wedding and we chatted all night. I remember asking him about bombing the German people and watched his face as he looked back at me in sorrow. He said he couldn't talk about it and hoped those kind of events never had to happen again. He then quickly changed the subject and told me about his Spitfire incident just after the war. Apparently he was showing off and managend clip the wing of the Spit on a church steeple. Big trouble at HQ he said with a cheeky grin. Maybe this is B**S as he wanted to change subject maybe not. For me he is my true hero.

Why I like avaition I cannot say and I really do not recall when it all started. Maybe it was the film 'Battle of Britain'. I had those Dinky toys of the Spit and 109. Then I started building airfix kits. They got bigger and metaphorically turned into R/C models. By 16 I wanted to fly for real. I enrolled to join the Fleet Air Arm. Did the usual assessment at Biggin and then went to HMS Sultan at Gosport. However it wasn't to be.

Now I still fly R/C models including helicopters. PC flight simulators are my latest immersion. I am also a regular visitor to flying displays such a Duxford, Biggen, and Shoreham. The 60th Lancaster celebrations last year where particularly moving for me.

For me there is no cure. My wife just has to live with it bless her.

All the best.
Graham.

[Fris B. Fairing]

I note that the names Tuck and Galland have come up a few times in this forum. It's not something I like to boast about but I feel that I can now reveal with all due humility that I flew with Tuck and Galland.

Unfortunately, propriety demands that I also reveal that it was in October 1980 on a scheduled Southwest B737 from Harlingen to Dallas when all three of us were returning (independently - that's another confession) from the Confederate Air Force Airsho. I did get their autographs though.

Cheers

[BEXIL160]

What got me into this aviation lark? Apparently I was taken to the local airfield (Roborough) to watch RN midshipmen bounce Tiger Moths around the circuit in the very early 1960s. I was three at the time and couldn't be dragged away until flying ceased.

Heros? Oh so many. But grateful thanks to the Piper Aztec pilot who lifted me as a 7 year old over the airport hedge to sit in the cockpit of his air taxi. I've never forgotten.

Since then i've progressed through watching aeroplanes, making models of them, loading baggage on them, cleaning them, flying them and now controlling them. AND NEVER REGRETTED A SINGLE DAY.

Bex

[BEagle]

Great bloke, Neville Duke! Did a trip from Brawdy in the late 70s when we launched a 4-ship to 'greet' Neville in a T-bird with our OC Ops Wg inbound from sunny Dunny. Press ignored our 25th Hunter anniversary event - the Spams had landed something on Mars and most journos present just wanted piccies of our Meteor F8 ('Winston') and JFACTSU's first camo'd JP4..............

[John Farley]

Since Adolph Galland's name has cropped up a few times may I say that I had the privilege of meeting him at the Hannover show in 71. I had XV276 (first DB Harrier) there and Bill Bedford brought him to see it. He asked me what it was like to hover I said easy and told him what you had to do. Then I asked him what it was like to shoot and he said easy, I will show you what you have to do. He then took us down town to a shooting gallery and proceeded to punch the bull out of target after target with a pistol. I could see I was in trouble when he said we will now see who are the best shots the RAF or the Luftwaffe. I think I got two outers and the rest were in the roof. Bad night. He was funny, charming, a real gentlman with no side to him but he was clearly born to win and lead.

As to my heros, I had a heroine (nothing funny about me) Hanna Reitsch. Best tp the Germans ever had in my view, but thats another story. I met her in the US when she happened to be in an elevator that I got into - by chance we were going to the same SETP do. Came over quite funny I did. What my spinster Aunt Mabel used to call nearly swooning I think.

[BEagle]

JF - some years ago (1970?) there was a book published about the making of the movie 'Battle of Britain'. I well remember that 'Dolfo' Galland was given the chance of a trip in a 2-seater Bouchon and proceeded to wring it out in inimitable style - culminating in the famous Galland pushover to inverted flypast! Probably the first time he'd done it in 25 years!

Some 25 years later I was involved in some training at Furstenfeldbruck where we were looked after very well by our Lufwaffe hosts. In their Officers' Mess dining room they had massive portraits of famous WW1 pilots - we asked "When do you think that you'll be allowed to put 'Dolfo' Galland or Joachim Marseille up there with those chaps?". Our GAF host was somewhat perplexed - "Regrettably we cannot do this. Only we pilots understand the difference between flying and politics". I told him that we knew that Galland and Tuck were friends, although Bader had never been able to forgive any Germans for WW2 - and we all thought that it was high time that the leadership and flying skills of chaps like Galland were recognised. We had a good aircrew session, lubricated by copious 'Mad King Ludwigs' and the odd Jaegermeister or three....

[ 11 January 2002: Message edited by: BEagle ]</p>

[John Farley]

BEags. Sometimes people are more appreciated abroad than at home....like Michael Wibault who took his idea of vectored thrust to M Dassault (in 1955/6)and got sent off with a flea in 'is ear.

[BEagle]

Really - what a mistakea to makea!

I guess that explains the various lift jet Mirage derivatives in the 60s? No nice simple vectored thrust - just clumsy lft jets. If memory serves they were the Balzac which was a 9-engined Mirage 3 (8 lift jets and an Orpheus) and the Mirage III-V with 8 rather more powerful lift jets and a large Snecma afterburning cruise engine. The Balzac crashed a couple of times and the MIII-V had so little fuel/payload that it wasn't continued with?

Unlike the very much more efficient Harrier...!!

Incidentally, thanks for the picture and details of the vectored thrust Meteor (the ground photo was taken at Merryfield, I'm convinced, as I recognise that unusual tree in the background which would have been in the right place if the photo was taken from next to Westland's tunnels). But what escape system was envisaged for the pilot when flying at minimum approach speeds fully-vectored? If an engine failed, Vmca would surely have been massively in excess of normal with the larger engines - and the zero/zero bang seat hadn't been invented then? Presumably the low speed end of the trials envelope was only carried out at altitude - or did some brave TP risk himself in it making real landings?

[ 13 January 2002: Message edited by: BEagle ]</p>

[John Farley]

I’ve never heard anyone call lift jets clumsy, but I take your point that they did turn out to be less than desirable. Aero Flight boffins at Bedford had a couple of SC1 s and the first P1127 in the mid 60’s and were trying to make the case for going one way or the other. The SC1 had lovely hover handling compared to the P1127 (thanks to the latter’s intake momentum drag making it directionally unstable at mid transition speeds and below) but it was a bit of a nightmare to operate as it was a five engined bomber that you flew by yourself. Starting the lift donks had to be left to a couple of miles out because of lack of fuel and it took a long time…

Clive Rustin, then my boss, was going to fly the Balzac around 66 but a yank ran out of fuel in the hover a few weeks before his slot and that was that. The trouble with the delta winged Balzac and ditto Mirage IIIV, was that they could only increase the wing lift when accelerating towards wingborne speeds by going to classic delta high AOA. That pointed the lift jets forward so slowing you down again. Hence they needed to get a lot of height from the VTO and dive down through the transition.

I am told that only one pilot flew the deflected jet Meteor with the deflection selected and that it was all very disappointing. It had no augmentation of the flying controls so how they expected to fly much slower than the standard stalling speed is not clear – even disregarding the lack of bang seat and so on. Plus the deflected percentage was not that high. Even 15 years later RAE had still not really got the control message, and remained obsessed with showing high lift without high V. So it came to pass that the H126 could be flown at a Cl max of 7 (yes seven) but because you could not control it properly you used normal numbers like 2 to land.

But then I always say every book in every library has got it wrong when they talk about the “Stability and Control of aircraft” They should be called the “Control and Stability of aircraft”. Just like the Wrights understood. All off topic and its all your fault.

[BEagle]

Mea culpa regarding the off-thread comments. Sorry!

Lift jets clumsy - OK, not so much 'clumsy' as 'an inelegant engineering solution'. Carrying 8 lift engines around in the Balzac or MIII-V (or 4 in the SCI?) seems rather a compromise to fuel/payload in a military aeroplane? Incidentally, didn't the Spam total the M111-V rather than the BalzacV (which itself claimed 2 pilots in 2 fatals)?

I would hate to have been at the helm of a Meatbox with 2 Nenes bellowing away at 70 KIAS and only aerodynamic control available rather than reaction controls.....and to have had an engine fail during a low speed go-around!!

The instability of the P1127 due to intake momentum drag has been well described on this site thanks to your excellent posts, but the stability of a slender delta accelerating away from the hover at high AoA must have been pretty eye-watering! I guess one lifted out of ground effect into the highest possible hover that thrust/fuel/bravery allowed, ensured that the cruise engine was working OK, whacked it straight into max AB and frantically pitched forward to maintain the AoA inside safe limits whilst hoping to avoid the ground? It must have been very entertaining to watch! From a safe distance!!

Mind you, the Yak 141 some Farnboroughs ago was pretty dramatic in its transition - it seemed to take most of Hampshire to slow down!! Not to mention winning the trophy for the number of car alarms it could set off at once - and another for melting the runway!

Oops - off topic still. Other childhood flying heroes? The chap at Merryfield air display on 18 Sep 1954 who fulfilled the air display brochure statement "It is hoped that the Flying Display will include the following:- ....Breaking the sound barrier by a Sabre of Fighter Command" He did that alright - it made little lads like me jump out of their skin!!

[ 13 January 2002: Message edited by: BEagle ]</p>

[hopharrigan]

I'm disappointed, no-one remembers my radio show in the 50's? I know that I spurred one young lad at least, but I suppose there are not many of you here that were around then. Now where's my glasses and blanket?

[Fris B. Fairing]

Hey Hop

You were my hero man. "Control to CX4" and all that. How's Tank these days?

Cheers

[Centaurus]

As an eight year old living in Cranbrook when the Battle of Britain got under way I was also an unpaid junior member of the Royal Observer Corps. Each day after school and at week-ends I would help man the Cranbrook ROC post armed with nothing but my catapult and two eyeballs Mk I. Biggles and Rockfist Rogan in the Champion comic were my heroes and then every RAF fighter pilot after that. I could spot Heinkels and Messerschmitts at Angels One Five quicker than my old Uncle Alf who was 57 then. I spotted the Jerries and he manned the Lee Enfield rifle and the telephone to whoever.
Later when I flew Lincolns I met some real live heroes who survived Lancs and Halifaxes over Europe. If you are interested in that era from the viewpoint of young boy in Kent then you are welcome to email me at [email protected] and I will send you by return email a story I wrote called " A Blackbird and a Messerschmitt on a Tree". The reason for the strange title is found in the last line of the story. This is not advertising, but the story is gathering dust on my hard drive so to speak, and someone might just enjoy reading it.

[LowNSlow]

Dad was a F/E on Halifaxes (crewed the famous Friday the 13th) more than once, an uncle was a WOP/AG on Bleheims and big bro was into trains and aeroplanes. The aeroplanes won it for me and I devoured Biggles books and any thing about flying, mmostly WW2 orientated. Pierre CLosterman's Big Show was my favorite.

One of the officers in my ATC Squadron was also a hero. When we were being instructed by the younger officer on how to bale out of a chippie before we went for our first air experience flight he chimed in with " bloody rubbish son, I've jumped out of a Hurricane, a Spitfire and a Typhoon and I just jumped. Don't arse about, get out".

Regarding the last Beau flight mentioned above, one of the mags, Flypast I think, said that the last Beau flight was in Seletar in 1960. I can remember reading that the last flight was in 68 by a target tug in Malta. Why oh why were they scrapped.

[LowNSlow]

Oh, and the Sea Fury pilot at St. Athan in the late 60's and his colleague in an F-4 turning withing the boundary of the airfield and you couldn't see the wings because of the contrails. He must have been at the highest alpha he could have pulled. Brilliant.