Digital engine monitors

[CitationJet]

I am planning to have a digital engine monitor fitted to the Bonanza (IO-550B) and am after some recommendations about who in Victoria I should get to do the work.

Can an A&E LAME do the work or does it require an instrument & electrical ticket to fit it.

Also, for those who have monitors, what is the preferred model. I am looking at EDM-700 or -800. I am still not really clear on the difference. JPI's website isn't all that helpful. I am keen to have the fuel flow/totaliser option, possibly connected to the KLN94 if that doesn't add too much in cost.

Any views welcomed!

CJ

[VH-XXX]

I hope I've got this right, he works in the back of the Aviation Centre at Moorabbin, Ashleigh? If I've got that wrong I can get the details off someone.

He flies a Bonanza himself and I recall him saying he goes on Bonanza group fly-aways. He is your man. Looks after a mates Chieftain and C20X Cessna's. I used him to put an aircraft back into IFR from the US that had never been IFR - pretty painless.

[baswell]

Unless there is an STC for it, wouldn't you need a CAR35 shop to do it?

Edit: looks like there is: http://www.jpitech.com/manuals/01/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20MEL101FF-REV14.pdf

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

what is the preferred model. I am looking at EDM-700 or -800. I am still not really clear on the difference.
As far as I can see,

Fuel Flow (USED, Remaining, GPH
Endurance, GPS destination)
RPM
MAP
OAT

are standard on the EDM800, but options on the 700.

%HP (Requires: OAT, RPM, MAP, & FF ) is also standard on the 800 but doesn't appear to be an option on the 700.

The V-tail I used to fly had a Shadin digital fuel flow fitted so I installed an EDM700 with RPM and OAT options.

The A36 I currently fly has an EDM800 fitted. I prefer the set up in the V-tail but that is just a personal thing.

Dr :8

[Jabawocky]

Once you have it fitted, you need to truly know what it is telling you actually means.

The likely scenario is once you get it you think this is really nice, but you do not know what you don't know.....blissfully unaware of just how really useful this tool is. So far, out of all the pilots I know or have met at various events, less than 1% really know AND understand what the EMS is telling them. I suspect across the greater aviation community that statistic is far worse.

Rather than thread drift this, check your PM's :ok:........well if you had PM's available :=

[185skywagon]

I have the Jpi 830. If you going to go down this route, I would suggest the Jpi 900 which has primary replacement approval. The 830 is good.

[captwawa]

Ive been reading about the IPAD / Boothtooth engine monitor Wireless in-flight engine data now available for iCub | General Aviation News (http://www.generalaviationnews.com/2011/01/17/wireless-in-flight-engine-data-now-available-for-icub/)Wireless in-flight engine data now available for iCub | General Aviation News (http://www.generalaviationnews.com/2011/01/17/wireless-in-flight-engine-data-now-available-for-icub/)

Anyone else got this, I believe that the cost of the equipment is around $1000.00 or so..

[Clearedtoreenter]

Had a monitor fitted by my normal LAME. Fair bit of work in fitting all of those EGT, CHT, OAT and fuel flow probes and sensors. Then an avionics guy wired it into the GPS, which was not too big a deal. I guess the labour was a couple of days really. It fitted neatly into an existing vacant instrument hole. It came with all of the STC's and paperwork needed. All worked well. I especially liked the download function... Although I must admit like Jaba says I usually needed expert input to understand all of the graphs and data coming out of it. I use G1000 now, much more slick to view and operate but it does not seem to have a download facility, not in my software version anyway. I don't run LOP though Well, not since I burnt an exhaust valve in a big way. Am told it was either guide wear or I just plain got it wrong.:ugh:

[Jabawocky]

Cleared

Here is the truth.
I don't run LOP though Well, not since I burnt an exhaust valve in a big way. Am told it was either guide wear or I just plain got it wrong.:ugh:

If you burnt an exhaust valve from running LOP, it could only have been from being say 10dF LOP while at 1000' at 29" and 2700RPM......that would heat your heads up really well and eventually cause distortion, which leads to a valve problem.

Please tell me you did not do that?

The reason you had a valve problem, and my guess is this was a factory built jug from TCM, was the valve guides were inserted and not "post reamed" and the poor little valve never stood a chance at being square to the seat.

Too many myths perpetuated by people who know very little about the topic, but are qualified to work on your engine. More myths repeated over the years.

I see you said you needed expert help to understand all the graphs, that is great, but my point is after that do you really understand what the graphs are telling you, it is one thing to understand the monitor and what it SAYS, it is another to understand what it is TELLING you.

This was the big AaaaHaaa moment for me. And that is the moment that very few people get to experience I have found. This is not something that can be gained from jst a few posts on pprune either.

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Agree with Jabba 100%. The advance pilot seminars (Advanced Pilot (http://www.advancedpilot.com/onlinecourse.html)) and everything ever written by John Deakin (search Avweb under the heading 'Pelican Perch') should be compulsory reading before ever considering going LOP (they'll also stop you getting into trouble ROP as well!)

Not all engines will support LOP. In my aircraft type there is a large percentage of the fleet which has had power upgrades from 280HP to 350HP and as a consequence the engines go from having high compression ratios to low compression. The guys operating the low compression engines are almost totally unable to operate LOP without overheating the engine.

In 2 weeks time I'm having an Auracle 2120 engine monitor fitted. It's TSO'd as a primary engine instruments and so will replace the RPM, MAP, FF and other bits and pieces too. Compared to the JPI960 which is also TSO'd as a replacement, I chose the Auracle as it has a reversionary mode with (supposedly) fully redundant hardware and software such that I should never lose both screens at once.

Without this type of information available (all cylinder EGT & CHTs as well as individual TITs) I'd never consider running LOP - even though it's a Lycoming and at lower enough power settings it should be impossible to do any damage.

UTR

[Jabawocky]

UTR :ok:

Long time no speak....and you should choose your company a bit more carefully next time you go flying to Tassie ;) :}.....save that for later!

The advance pilot seminars (Advanced Pilot (http://www.advancedpilot.com/onlinecourse.html)) and everything ever written by John Deakin (search Avweb under the heading 'Pelican Perch') should be compulsory reading before ever considering going LOP (they'll also stop you getting into trouble ROP as well!)

Indeed and it should be noted that there is more potential for screwing up on the ROP side so with your new beast, it is even more critical.

We should talk about things new in your world, I may have some tips that might help. too hard to go into here though. Check PM's:ok:

[avcraft]

The JPI 730/830's are a nice bit of kit, I've installed them into a 421C and a 402B recently. Unfortunately one display was DOA out of the box but JPI shipped a replacement immediately, and one required a complete hard drive erase and reload, but once again JPI emailed me the program to do that with no hassles

Also recently upgraded an old Insight GEM to the latest G3 with prop vibration etc, this one is in an F33A with a 550. Very nice, super capable unit let down slightly by the smallish screen and placement of the buttons, but if panel space is tight it's an excellent option

Support from Insight and JPI was great and they're both releasing regular software updates

me.

[Clearedtoreenter]

If you burnt an exhaust valve from running LOP, it could only have been from being say 10dF LOP while at 1000' at 29" and 2700RPM......that would heat your heads up really well and eventually cause distortion, which leads to a valve problem.

Please tell me you did not do that?

The reason you had a valve problem, and my guess is this was a factory built jug from TCM, was the valve guides were inserted and not "post reamed" and the poor little valve never stood a chance at being square to the seat.

Too many myths perpetuated by people who know very little about the topic, but are qualified to work on your engine. More myths repeated over the years.

I used to run more than 10dF LOP, more like 50. Also, would never allow CHTs greater than 380F. That would save me about 15% on fuel bills, going about 10-15kts slower. Maybe it was just a badly fitted guide but it lasted 1300 hours so not sure about that. Whatever, my LAME quoted me some Lycoming document that said no way should I be doing that. (Yes, I know lots of LOP experts poo poo that doc.) And he gave me a good wrap on the knuckles for 'running too lean' and told me that fuel is the cheapest thing I will put into the plane! Having cylinders overhauled does knock a pretty big hole in the fuel savings. The engine does not run nearly as cleanly ROP. I'm resigned to that now and prefer the extra few ROP knots in any case:)

Sorry about the thread drift btw. But these are debates you get into with an analyzer.. Sometimes there are more questions than answers!:ugh:

[Jabawocky]

I'm resigned to that now and prefer the extra few ROP knots in any casehttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gifHey run the engine ROP if you want :ok: Perfectly valid operation.

So tell me in detail how you operate a typical flight, just for the education of others who may be watching.

By the way, Running Too Lean is defined as;
(A) on the rich side of peak when at high power settings you create detonation.
(B) On the lean side of peak, when you run too lean, your engine stops, IAS falls and the altimeter unwinds.

Plenty of poor fitting valves make it that far if they are slightly poor. Most likely the very reason it made it that far was exactly because you ran the engine nicely LOP and CHT's below 380, in fact below 350 is better!

See it is funny how your mechanics faultly logic has persuaded you to think that the reason the valve went bad at 1300 hours was due to LOP ops. If running too lean had ANY technical merit, then it would have failed in 300 hours or less. A poorly fitted valve would have failed running ROP as well.

Running as per many POH's I bet would have killed that jug off far sooner. Internal combustion pressures, the temperature of the valves and all the data in the world seems to have little effect on some mechanics, and why? Because they do not understand the data. They do not have to. But they should!

By the way, who has a CPL text book showing Turbo Lance performance charts? Mrs Jaba was doing an exam recently, and answered a performance related question 100% correct, yet was marked wrong :ugh:. Now you all know she will get that mark back before the year is out, but it gobsmacked me that this garbage is still in print (along with MBZ's etc :E).

Anyway, can someone explain to me how at 70% power you can have two different performances and differing TAS? :} 70% Best Economy and 70% Best power .......two different TAS :}:}:}:}

My best guess is the extra mass airflow out the exhaust generates a massive dose of extra thrust hence better performance.:E

[Jack Ranga]

and you should choose your company a bit more carefully next time you go flying to Tassie

Manners := (:E)

[Jenna Talia]

The Ashleigh that XXX refers to is Ashleigh McDonald and his brother James who run Flight Avionics at YMMB in the same hangar occupied by The Aviation Centre. Flight Avionics contact is 03 95800245. Very knowledgable :ok: