Chinook pilot v RAF Movers

[SimonK]

Quite intrigued to see that the RAF Movers have descended en masse on poor old Frenchy Duncan's fine 'Sweating the Metal' book reviews on Amazon. It seems he made some disparaging comment about them in his book and has just acquired approximately 20 hostile reviews from such impartial reviewers as 'RAF Mover', 'Movers Wife', 'Real RAF' etc.

I'm not Frenchy, nor have I ever even met him, but I guess the real moral of the story is don't F**k with a mover. They'll lose your bags or finish your burgeoning writing career if you do; stay safe people ;-)

[Prop-Ed]

Sweet! A movers bashing thread! Haven't had a good one in ages. Game on!

P.s. I F'in hate them.....

[salad-dodger]

well the comments are clearly from genuine movers, only RAF coppers write worse than that :E

S-D

[NutLoose]

Ouch

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/1444708007/ref=sr_cr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Ouch

Amazon.co.uk: Customer Reviews: Sweating the Metal: Flying Under Fire. A Chinook Pilot's Blistering Account of Life, Death and Dust in Afghanistan (http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/1444708007/ref=sr_cr_hist_1?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0)

Not sure about the link but we bought two of these and they are V comfy on the beach

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003IOON08/ref=s9_qpp_gw_d99_g200_ir01?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=center-4&pf_rd_r=1NA21RVSWCKQPRCXP4A7&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=467128133&pf_rd_i=468294

As an aside the only folk who will take notice of the ramblings of an RAF Mover or his Spandex wearing significant other are fellow movers so the the real world need not worry :ok:

[Melchett01]

Haven't read the book, so can't comment on the quality of writing, alleged predictability etc, but all I can suggest is that he must have hit a raw nerve amongst the Movers.

That said, some of the "Movers' " comments are quite amusing - although I suspect in an entirely unintentional way. Either that the RAF is full of the next Ben Eltons / Jack Dees. With my pedant hat on, I have to say that:

the author clearly has no appreciation of the factors that go in to ac handling. (Erm, isn't that what flying training is all about?)

The proof reader and whom ever authorised this to be released with a RAF seal of approval must answer for not doing there job. (Oh dear, typos in the argument about proof reading.)

both made me chuckle.

[Airborne Aircrew]

Somewhere in the big world of the internet there is a forum where the nether regions of the RAF, (namely movers), congregate to cast their evil spells... * One of them found this book on Amazon and alerted the coven which, predictably, all came on their souped up brooms to cast wickedness upon the worthless tome.

Since the author took the time from a probably ripping yarn to tear into the movers they must have f:mad:d up royally and they know it... Hence the entire coven breaking radio silence at the same time... :E





* Dare I suggest that filthy cesspit known as eGoat....

[diginagain]

I might recommend the book for review by my colleagues on the other forum.

[SimonK]

To be fair to (one of, at least!) them, there is a bit of humour in there.

I particularly like the review by 'empty carousel'.......RAF Mover in sense of humour shocker!!

[high spirits]

Movers - the greatest oxymoron since that company that begins with Q and sounds like kinetic.......

Sits back with glass of babycham and waits for a bite.

[Whenurhappy]

I haven't read the book - yet - but the reviews do seem a little harsh. What I found err, interesting, were the 'other products' bought by purchasers of the book...look at the bottom (ooh err!)

Veet for Men, Veet for Men strips etc....

[Dockers]

Slight thread drift - Whenurhappy wrote What I found err, interesting, were the 'other products' bought by purchasers of the book...look at the bottom (ooh err!)

Veet for Men, Veet for Men strips etc....

The reviews and comments for some of these products are very funny.

[chinook240]

There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.
Oscar Wilde

I'm sure Frenchie will be grateful for the free publicity - the book has been out for a year and this will help boost sales!

[bingofuel]

Free sample available on i tunes, make yor own mind up!

[November4]

Interesting to see it's not just the rank and file writing comments about the book but also some Suppliers with a Movements annotation too.

Haven't read the book but sounds like similar comments made about Movers in a book by a well known Navy pilot who won the Falklands air war on his own.

[Cows getting bigger]

Aren't Chinook drivers and Movers one in the same? The both shift stuff. :zzz:

[Training Risky]

Slight thread drift...I was really enjoying the book 'The Junior Officers' Reading Club' by an ex-Guards officer, until the penultimate pages when he wrote the following about a stint in the Falklands:

"I can't wait for Argentian battalions to descend on this place and fu(k off every whinging bar-coded war dodger...etc etc"

Which made him sound like a massive whinging army knuckledragger.

If everyone who went on ops wrote a vanity project/cash-in/memoir aboutit, then there would be no trees left standing!

What's next...'Confessions of a combat admin clerk in Al Udeid'?

[charliegolf]

expose him as little more than a self pubicist.

Is he bit of an exhibitionist then?

CG

[Torque Tonight]

I think most readers will see these reviews for what they are.

I recall when on 1310 Flt we built 'The Camel's Toe', the JHF Bar at Basrah. We ordered 8 picnic benches for the place, paid for by our funds. Some time late 7 benches arrived. Quick phone call to the movers and the reply was 'Nah mate, 7's all that come through'. Movers back in the UK seemed to disagree so the Boss takes a walk down to the movers' crewroom airside at BSR, and finds a bunch of them smoking fags and reading Loaded, sitting on our missing 8th table. They were lucky not to find themselves on charges. Thanks for the support guys... and they wonder why they get a bad name.

Can't wait for some thrilling movers' war memoirs come out. I'm sure they'll fly off the shelves.

[roony]

Got my doubts that Empty Carousel is a mover. That is funny!!

[charliegolf]

Aren't Chinook drivers and Movers one in the same? They both shift stuff.

Yes, but it seems the Driver actually believes the advertising copy. I rather enjoyed the reviews. Made Oi larf.

CG

[Chainkicker]

I would be in agreement with I compare them all to 'Chickenhawk'

My copy must be 25 years old now, very dogeared and has survived several purges of the bookcases to make room, but what a book though. The standard by which others are judged :)

[Army Mover]

Oh dear, apparently, he's also had a go at the Army movers ................. zzzzz :eek:

[Steve Beaumont]

I don't think that all of the comments in those reviews represent the whole movements trade. I am disappointed by some of the comments in the book but please don't think we are all like that. Perhaps some of you on here would like to have a go at being a mover and see how long you last.

Please feel free to pop over to our website to make your comments.

RAFMOVS.COM › Forums › Home (http://www.rafmovs.com/cpgn/index.php?name=Forums)

[NutLoose]

Does it come prepunched in the top left hand corner to hang up on a rusty nail?

[VinRouge]

Army movers

Dont you mean, "Oi, Propeller Man!".

[Army Mover]

Dont you mean, "Oi, Propeller Man!".

Well, if I were to be picky, it's actually a wagon wheel, but I can understand your fixation with things propellor like. :E

[WE992]

Irrespective of what the reviews say I can't believe that the RAF actualy endorsed this book in the politicaly correct 'one team' Air Force when the author takes pot shots at ground and support trades which without his hydraulic palm tree would be just that parked in the desert U/S and useless to everybody.

[Airborne Aircrew]

RAFMOVS.COM › Forums › Home (http://www.rafmovs.com/cpgn/index.php?name=Forums)

First time I tried it said "Page not found" and the second time it redirected me somewhere else... So it's a genuine Movers site... :E

[salad-dodger]

Perhaps some of you on here would like to have a go at being a mover

No, not me thanks. Glorified blanket stackers.

S-D

[NutLoose]

Awwww come on salad dodger, you get to fly all over the world and do this


http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/7136/t109030017.jpg

http://www.europe-autos.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/red-suitcase.jpg


:E

[woptb]

It's been my experience that Onan the Bagbarian, is capable of damaging more RAF airframes than all the Libyan & Iraqi air defence systems combined.

[ExAscoteer]

Perhaps some of you on here would like to have a go at being a mover Having spent my professional life flying around the world with numerous 'Movers' who:

a. Went to sleep down the back (usually having demanded a partial stretcher fit for that very reason), as soon as the GTC shut down.

b. Screwed up the load plan.

c. Were totally unresponsive WRT unloading Albert at Destination (See Para a), to the point where we, the Crew, unloaded Albert.

I would have loved to have been a Mover and been paid for doing the Square Root of **** All!


Useless bunch of ******* twats.

[wokkamate]

Oh dear God......seriously? You know what, who cares what the f*cking movers think, Frenchy is a genuinely nice bloke, not a writer (ghost written book) who is a bloody good and brave pilot (DFC and AFC now), like many others of his ilk who do not get recognised. If he didn't whinge about movers this would not have been an honest book! So, if you can't take a joke, you shouldn't have become a mover!

In sum, get a life, get on the front line (that is outside the wire for any movers reading this), get shot at, get a medal, then you will have the right to have a pop at a decent bloke like Alex.

Those reviews just sum up how pathetic and petty some people can be....:ugh:

Rant over. Maybe.

[wokkamate]

PS - popped over to RAFMOVS.com and had a look at their 'Sandbags and Swinging Lanterns' section (with the following sub-note: Been there, seen it, done it. Then it must be time to pull up a sandbag. If you have got any stories you want to share them then please post them here), hoping it would be full of tales of daring mover do, but was sadly disappointed to find only two threads, one being about Swinderby and the other about Falklands photos......BLUNT!!!!!!

Guess that thread sums up the trade then.......

Ok, I understand that not all movers are knobs but I have seen countless examples in 25 years of service all round the world on ops and exercises, of smug, power holding, information with-holding that has resulted in ill informed and disgruntled pax. It is all about effective communication and easing the way, surely? Or am I wrong?

Need to go to bed now.......

[Airborne Aircrew]

Need to go to bed now.......

Don't forget to breathe...

[minigundiplomat]

OK,

first off, I'm pretty sure HM the Queen is not in the habit of handing out gallantry awards to the underserving - twice.

For the uninitiated, the DFC was for taking an RPG through the airframe, badly damaging the aircraft, and for landing safely with the governor of Helmand onboard. He went on to take pqrt in a major deliberate op only days later which was 'kinetic in nature'.

The AFC was for rescuing two casualties from the Sangin valley, at night and in a sandstorm flying at low level and with no more than 200M visibility at any point - the IR anti-col of an FLIR equipped Apache his only source of reference for a 100 mile round trip (twice).
This was only days after taking a number of rounds and an airburst RPG whilst attempting to resupply the Paras.

Sounds pretty worthwhile.

Now thats put to bed, a quick word about the movers.

As an ex-mover, I was also Frenchies crewman when he was awarded the AFC, so I think I am fairly uniquely qualified to comment.

I know a great deal of movers who work incredibly hard and regularly go above and beyond to ensure things run smoothly. They get very little credit when things go right, but carry the can when things go wrong.

I also know a number of movers for whom the act of being difficult is to be taken to an artform. Thankfully, they are small in number, but tend to provide our lasting impression of the trade.

So, is the outrage justified?

I'm sure the majority of hard working movers will be a little miffed at the negative outlook of their trade. I'm sure those at which the critisism is particularly levelled will be most vocal and are probably too busy typing abuse into Amazon to read this anyway.

However, either Frenchie's allegations are untrue (something I severely doubt knowing Frenchie) or they are true, but those concerned are angry they were pointed out.

To those I would point out that Frenchie is also critical of other aspects of the Op experience - not just movers, and thats partly the appeal of the book.

Good luck to all, whatever side of the fence. But I would suggest it is time this was put to bed.

[teeteringhead]

Well said mgd :ok:

[ramp_up]

Sirs, Ma'ams Ladies and Gentlemen......

Standby to be patronised

[air pig]

Movers, pah, amateurs, try getting out to your aircraft at Manchester as crew. Security are the most ungracious, odious group of individuals dealing with aircrew I have ever come across, at any airport, in my life.

[PTC REMF]

Did the movers complain about taking on board an RPG without two copies of the shipper's deceleration of dangerous goods?

[NutLoose]

For the uninitiated, the DFC was for taking an RPG through the airframe, badly damaging the aircraft.

Odd the way that reads, what would he have got if he avoided it?



Sorry trying to lighten up the thread

[Laarbruch72]

For what it's worth I'm not sure either side comes out well in this particular pissing match, regardless of who wrote what through ghost authors, or who wrote on Amazon from the movements point of view.

I've had my run ins with MGD in the past but for me, he's spot on here. Let the whole ugly infighting business lie. The RAF is supposed to be one fight, it's really sad to see jockeys slagging off muppets or any other ground trade who are pivotal to keeping them airborne, no matter how minor the percieved role.

[cornish-stormrider]

Meh, you get good and ****e in all trades - sadly the trades that NEED the best customer service attitude often get down by berks......

and to be fair - movements ain't exactly rocket science so you are far less likely to get a good intellect working there. Treat em like you would treat a rhino,

With care, a tranq gun and a big cage - you should be fine.

Fly safe, and don't have nightmares, I know I still do.

[chinook240]

MGD,

Thanks for putting a bit of 'context' into this sad affair. :o

[Duplo]

I came back from AFG last week.. I was bused from the old PHF to the new CHF.. met by some army mover saying 'this is new, not open yet..' just went off for a sleep... I woke up and it was ok.. the movers in Minhad are ace by the way..

[skippedonce]

'I am completely disappointed to think that this person has been award the DFC and then goes out of his way to belittle movers!'

Suggesting gallantry, a realist attitude and the failure to pander to the bruised egos of dribbling vegetables are a bad thing?

[diginagain]

.........then goes out of his way to belittle movers!'I don't think he had to go far.

[Circus Chimp]

.. the movers in Minhad are ace by the way..

That's because they're civvies..

[Cmn2644]

Well said MGD - completely agree.

To those who felt the need to post reviews of an 'personal grievance' nature on Amazon, my advice would be to pump the brakes and chill out. The majority of movers are helpful and do a good job, just like aircrew, so don't turn this into a massive Aircrew v Movers battle which will only alienate the majority of you who do us all proud.

That is all.

[charliegolf]

Isn't this just the memoir version of, 'sexing-up the dossier'? It sells better. When the movers write one, will we be surprised to read that it was our heroes who really made it all possible?

CG

[NutLoose]

I've never seen so much interest in a book since Buster released 'itler, my parts in his downfall :p






..

[Wolfgang27]

Right, listen up movers. We direct these comments at you after many, many years of extreme disappointment. We recognise that you had a difficult job and like us you are probably under resourced and undermanned. By all means feel free to have a pop at an author that was under guidance to make the story exciting and accessible all for all ages, so he wrote how he was told to write. The facts are all accurate, he is one of the most courageous men you can ever meet and in real life will always always play it all down. To have a go at him basing his stories on real experience is very disappointing. The calibre of the comments show the true level of intelligence which is smearing his hard work. Every time the fleet has tried to get to and from theatre it has been seriously undermined by fairly poor results by your department. He is simply telling the truth. Very, childish, unprofessional and nasty to go out of your way to shoot down the success and hard work of those at Odiham who have been out there fighting the war for years on your behalf. Classic case of charisma envy and you have really let the whole RAF down. Disgusted.

[Laarbruch72]

Oh give over you silly bugger, talk about a drama queen.

[P6 Driver]

I enjoyed the line;


I do however seriously look forward to his next publication 'Where's My Luggage?'

[El_Presidente]

I think MGD deserves credit here for making some very sensible comments. Oh, and a bigger well done for managing to count past ten (mover) without taking his shoes and socks off (loadie). Next step, front of house (firstly though you need the God complex)!

I am quite perplexed however, by some of the rather emotive rhetoric by some on this thread. We can all be let down at times by our colleagues. If I recall, there are a couple of our finest stick monkeys at EGVO who have their own chair in OC Police Flights office.

I also remember about 10 yrs ago seeing a young DAMO getting stick from a pissed albert mate in the Officers Mess bar at Akrotiri; he'd made the mistake of asking where the loadie was accommodated. Said pissed albert mate: "You're infringing on my rest period, I'm flying in 5 hours now f*ck off"... so it seems we can all let the side down.

Thing is I know from first hand experience that most albert mates are sound; as are most wokka wokka chaps; as are most movers; as are most admin...no, can't go that far...

:E

[Duplo]

Circus Chimp,

I reported what I saw.. military staff looking after the through routing pax, are they not mover's? Well anyway, the team there were good...

[Two's in]

Everyone has a tale of mover's ineptitude, it's part of life in the services. As MGD said earlier, only a few go out of their way to muck people about, some do it without knowing, and the rest just try and get the job done professionally.

If I was the erstwhile author's SRO, my only "disappointment" would be his seeming inability to keep his officer's leadership qualities as well-honed as his flying skills. As an officer, responsibility for engendering morale, motivation, and confidence in the command structure aren't a function of the Auth sheet, it's a full time role.

[Steve Beaumont]

Of course, Pilots don't land a Hercules at Brize Norton with the undercarriage still up do they? Oh, yes they do.

Nobody is perfect.

[Airborne Aircrew]

If I was the erstwhile author's SRO, my only "disappointment" would be his seeming inability to keep his officer's leadership qualities as well-honed as his flying skills. As an officer, responsibility for engendering morale, motivation, and confidence in the command structure aren't a function of the Auth sheet, it's a full time role.

Conversely, if no-one point's out the failings in a system it can never be improved. Bitching when the shortfalls are mentioned rather than fixing them is a worse reflection on the complainees than the complainer..

[November4]

Conversely, if no-one point's out the failings in a system it can never be improved. Bitching when the shortfalls are mentioned rather than fixing them is a worse reflection on the complainees than the complainer..

And to do it in a book a couple of years after the event rather than at the time is really the way to sort out shortfalls.

[Milo Minderbinder]

After reading those reviews, I've one question.
Whats a "self pubicist"?? Sounds like something best done behind closed curtains

[Airborne Aircrew]

November4:

And to do it in a book a couple of years after the event rather than at the time is really the way to sort out shortfalls.So.. You seriously think that no-one complains to these people face to face? You really think that movers swan through life thinking that are doing the perfect job because it isn't until two years later that someone pops out a whine in a book that they suddenly realize everything is not well in the kingdom of Denmark????

Please... Tell me you aren't that naive....

[November4]

No I am not saying that AA and am sure that people do complain at the time. But who do they complain to? The SAC / Cpl who has said no? Or to the DAMO / Officer? Or do they save it up until the can complain on here or in a book years later?

But here's a question - who has actually read the book or the passage that this thread is all about?

Why do you think he was no able to get on an aircraft?

Was it because he was not booked to the flight and turned up saying he needed to go home...or was he booked to the flight and the Mover was being bloody minded and said he couldn't fly for now other reason than he could.

If he needed to get home due to say complications with his wife who was pregnant why was he not booked or why didn't his chain of command use the Comp System?

I'm afraid that the 3 or 4 pages where he says about his problems in getting home come across as a case of "I'm aircrew and an officer put me on that plane". Especially with a comment along the lines of it's a big aircraft, 1 more pax won't make any difference or affect the trim just show.

I totally disagree with the comments and reviews on Amazon. There are far more appropriate ways to complain about the book than that. Likewise there are some Movers who are difficult and will stick to the rules no matter what but if he had turned up with the proper auth then he would have flown home and not had to write a rant in his book.

[DemonsMayStray]

So somebody who has broken aviation law is deserving of awards are they? Glad that it has been noted down with names of his "friend" pilot on the C-17 as evidence that he allowed a non manifested person to travel illegally on his aircraft....very smart move (and you pilots are supposed to be so much more elite than everyone else no?) And just because this idiot is at his end of tour, has a pregnant wife at home...this makes him even more so deserving of a quicker flight home than the respect of a body killed in action. I'm sure the family of the deceased will see the priority of getting old "frenchie home" on time. A hero? why? because he is doing his job? don't be such a self praising low life. The trouble with people who go outside of the wire in theatre is that they fully believe that everyone inside of the wire is lower than them and that the world owes them something by being in the green zone. I do believe you chose your career and are paid quite nicely for it. So please don't big yourself up into something you are not.At the end of the day you are no more than a chopper.......pilot. Please just remind yourself how your shiny little chinook got out into theatre in the first place, I don't think it moved itself there now did it?

[Monty77]

Demons

Have to agree with you.

I'm ex-rotary and did NI in the early nineties. There were a lot of very immature first tour pilots who thought they were God 'because they went outside the wire'. They didn't consider the squaddies in the bases in Belfast leaving their forts through protected sniper lanes at the sprint having just had a stress vomit inside.

The most inspirational individual I met there was a man called Flt Sgt Paul Green who is sadly no longer with us. He was Line Chief on shift and took it as a personal insult if a cab went u/s. He would come out with the J/T in the cold pissing rain to sort it or curry up a spare quickly. An inspiration.

You get good and bad in all walks of life. And I can comfortably include pilots in that. Slagging off ALL Movers is like slagging off a Ryanair hostie because she's not as attractive as you like and the sandwiches are ****e.

Like VC10s, with which Movers are forced to work, you cannot polish a turd.

[CrabInCab]

Monty

Like VC10s, with which Movers are forced to work, you cannot polish a turd.

You calling Movers turds? Not very nice is it...

:}

Demons

That's a hell of a bite for your first post, should be interesting! Pulls up arm chair, cracks a beer and watches to see how this one unfolds...

:E

[VinRouge]

Whats to say the C-17 didnt have a space empty and the crew decided to include them as the movers couldnt be arsed to draw up a new manifest?


Course, all changed now with decomp. Absolutely not mover bashing, we all have a job to do and we all do the damned best we can with what we have. Unfortunately, it takes 1 C*nt and your whole trade/branch gets covered in mud.

[cornish-stormrider]

ooh, a (presumably) mover who knows the in and outs of a rule book. Fancy That.

If, and it's a big if, the good movers sorted out the dross and the idle ****es with bags of McCain on both their shoulders so that they all did the same good level of basic service and not let their weak assed chimps make a bad trip worse by being so obtuse then the hatred of movers as a tribe might start to thaw.

it's not rocket science - getting trained, disciplined and usually experienced troops on and off an aeroplane.

Now, I am sure there will be some good, quality movers out there who are smarting from this - rather than bitch back - go and deal with your own turds, learn to accept banter, be a bit flexible and stop whinging if we try to circumvent your precious rule book.....

There does not need to be a pissing contest about in the wire, out the wire.
You are all in Turdistan, end of.

[Chris Griffin]

Interesting..........., purely on the basis that I experienced this first hand albeit not with the author.

At a certain sand infested place in Qatar it was a well known fact that the movers (both branches) "retained" seats on the C17's coming home in order to look after their own so they would not have the nause of waiting for the trooper and lengthy stops elsewhere in the med and europe on the way home.

When this was discovered the unofficial official solution was to talk to the crew of the mil jet to see if there was bang on board and whether we could go home supernumary (IAW all mil regs and aviation law I'm afraid demonsmaystray). We were operating dets 4 weeks on 3 weeks off for over 18 months so transit to and from the pit was a factor - especially when it was taking 46-58 hours to get home, and especially when the movers were holding seats for movers at the end of their 1 OOA that year.

It was due to the frequency of the dets that detachment aircrew were given priority status, and when that priority status was denied due to the movers looking after their mates rather than focussing on a factual and necessary operational requirement, it raised more than a few hackles.

I believe a very concise letter to the head shed mover via the AOC and subsequently the ACC led to this practice of "denial" of priority seats being ended rather sharpish.

As a further aside, I was left absolutely incredulous as an aircraft Captain when I, by absolute chance, overheard a pax brief from the movers team that had incorrectly loaded my jet which led to a 4 hr delay. The Sgt mover stated that the delay was due to the crew not crewing in on time. A quick chat with the DAMO and then my Sqn Boss saw a very sharpish one way chat to the SAMO from the Staish, quickly followed by another pax brief from the SAMO.

You really don't help yourselves.

[El_Presidente]

Chris Griffin, I think that can be said to all Braches and Trades. Monty and a few others seem to have grasped that a few bad eggs spoil the omelette for all...and exist in all walks of life. Did you read my post about the tipsy C130 co complaining about being disturbed in his rest period, 5 hrs before his flight, whilst still swigging Keo in the AKT Mess?

Did you ever hear about the Civvy who hopped on board a C130 at Colt back in the late 90's? After being invited on board by his mate in the driver's seat? Ended up in Bardufoss...and OC Movs ended up on the Stn Cdrs carpet because someone thought he could by-pass the system

Professionalism is required at all times. Just because you wear a growbag, it does not preclude you from screwing up. So if this thread is to be prevented from turning into a tit for tat exposé of warts why don't we all just try to get along...

:ok:

[Biggus]

....please don't (get along that is!), this is just far too much fun to watch......

[Nomorefreetime]

OK a lot of you seem to hate Movers, lets have some constructed thoughts on why?

The usual ones are getting boring:

Lost My Bags - BA never do that do they
Sleep down the back and drink all night
Sha**ed my misses in the Bop while I was away

Please give genuine gripes so, maybe the Movers who tread these boards can take it away and possibly learn from it.

Also if you have a gripe, tell the guys and don't hold it back for years to come. In the end we all fight for the same team, I am so dreading coming back to the real Air Force World later in the year.

[wokawoka]

Demons......,

If you d bothered getting the facts right you may have realised that Frenchie was actually on the manifest (as sad as it is I ve read the book). May have gone by a different route than the normal, but these were different days before decomp and were approved anyways. So nothing illegal here.....

However this is awkward:

Three RAF servicemen jailed over cigarette smuggling at Lyneham (From This Is Wiltshire) (http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/8834900.Three_RAF_servicemen_jailed_over_cigarette_smuggling _at_Lyneham/)

This REALLY is a great read........:D

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Some of you lot must have been off sick when your instructor mentioned never f:mad:g with the Cooks or the Movers.

A little illustartion for the arrogant silly arses

Goose Bay. WO 'Black Bart' Graham (RIP) barges into the shared Mover/VASF crewroom - 'Oi Beastal, (for it was he) where's my Personal Effect Boxes'. Ray Beastal - 'I'll check up on them, Sir'. Black Bart leaves the crewroom, The Beast gets on the phone 'Morning Gary, have you still got WO Graham's PE boxes? Yes? Well keep them for another month.

Akrotiri, APC. Steely Eyed killer arrives for 5 week target towing (having recently written to the RAF News slagging off the movers) Flying kit goes to Hong Kong. Does admin job for 5 weeks.

I say again. Under no circumstances should you annoy these people.

In my opinion, they are salt of the earth, with the usual few bad apples.

SPHLC (Honourary Mover)
Always polite, always got home.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

SPHLC (Honourary Mover)
Always polite, always got home.

I suspect the fact that you looked like a mover helped :p

[Chris Griffin]

SPHLC - hilarious dits from a golden era where such actions were of little consequence. Unfortunately, in my experience, preventable situations such as not doing your job right have had quite a severe operational impact in the last few years. A 24 hour rolex caused by a mismanaged load or NDT required due to vehicles being driven into the frame has a consequential knock on effect to an already tight AT plot. The general net result was that the guys that mattered didn't get home on time, if at all.

I concede movers were not always to blame, but having had the pleasure of working very closely with them for the last 10 years, the percentage is very high indeed; hence the responses.

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

All I am saying is that the Cooks will piss in your porridge, and the Movers will lose your bags. If you are nasty to them, do you expect them to do it less?

My # 1 drinking buddy is an ex-mover, and he genuinely can't remember where he buried some aircrew bags with a JCB in Thumrait. I have forgotten how many times I have rimmed the Nav's tea, and then smiled while he drank it.

Simple - don't get excitable with the little people, it is more than likely one of your hofficer brethren giving the directions.

[Airborne Aircrew]

My # 1 drinking buddy is an ex-mover, and he genuinely can't remember where he buried some aircrew bags with a JCB in Thumrait.

Maybe cutting back on his intake might help him remember...

It might also explain many thousands of faux pas by the mover trade.

[NutLoose]

Didn't they miss the JCB'S he buried ?

[Torque Tonight]

SPHLC, at least you're being honest with us when you tell us that you and your mates' default level of professional output is criminal damage, theft and breaches of hygiene regulations.

I feel that Demons and his like-minded colleagues will transition perfectly from RAF movements into BAA security, where aircrew-hating ineptitude and deliberate obstructiveness is given an additional real-world commercial dynamic.:ok:

[DemonsMayStray]

I think people on here should think before they write.....Cigarette smuggling a few years back...pathetic...I could write a book (maybe I should)( look at all the free publicity I would get):cool: on the mis-givings of the aircrew, I don't have to list them, and won't, all you need to do is google, that will tell you all you need to know.
We have procedures for a reason, and if you decide to try and circumvent them for your own good, then good luck to you. But if it goes wrong don't go whinging about it like a spoilt brat, grow up and get on with it.:ugh:

[Torque Tonight]

Whilst I eagerly await your book on the 'misgivings' of aircrew, perhaps next time a consignment of dictionaries passes through your facilities you should steal a few and look up some of the longer words. Also send one to 'Mover's wife' on Amazon who seems to think that describing the book as 'self-effacing' is a cutting criticism.

Other than that, keep up the good work.:ok:

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Downfall of Grammar - YouTube

[minigundiplomat]

I did attempt to strike a tone of balance earlier in what has become 4 pages of crap. I can see my efforts were in vain.

Demons,

I think your stated location says it all, perhaps you should stop digging and get back to work as there is obviously a unit missing their token 'see you next Tuesday'.

You are obviously bitter and twisted about something, perhaps its the fact you are not a Pilot qnd haven't been awarded the DFC or AFC, or maybe as simple as envy of Frenchies ability to go outside in daylight without children crying and people staring and pointing.

Either way, it matters not. What does matter is that several members of your own trade, including Steve Beaumont, have made a rational and reasoned defence of your branch in order to ensure we also see the good side of what Movers offer the services.

You have had a damn good go at undermining all of that with your inane and bitter ramblings. Well done on your own goal, Im sure your colleagues are proud.

You are the weakest link - goodbye

[diginagain]

Budge up! Who's got the popcorn?

[Two's in]

Here you are diginagain;

http://www.standardconcessionsupply.com/i/2011%20Images/west_bend_3_qt_popcorn_bowl.jpg

[NutLoose]

Bah... Popcorn is for wimps.... hotdog anyone?

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3289/3140389667_64a69d8e24.jpg

[diginagain]

Smashin'. Is this likely to go on all night? Hope so.

[Blue Bottle]

Come on Mover's bite some more, everyone is waiting...;)

[diginagain]

I think the Movers need to hire a PR guru. Is Mrs MacNaughton still into that sort of thing?

Looks like it. (http://www.claremacnaughton.com/Claremacnaughton/Home.html)

[Blue Bottle]

It's far better than watching 'EastEnders' I am sure they would bite if they where told they had checked in a passenger on time for the right flight and loaded his bags to the right aircraft..easy target!

[El_Presidente]

diginagain - might have to ask MGD to give Kai a bell to check the diary first...

Anyhow, has anyone else thought about the wider aspects of this thread? Perhaps the perceived poor performance of the Movs brigade is a result of cutting manning levels too far; loosing experienced NCO's and JO's to PVR/voluntary redundancy?

Just a thought is all...Oh, overstretch...it doesn't exist right?

:}

[diginagain]

A valid point, El Pres; however it doesn't explain the historical evidence of the animosity that the Mover trade seems to have created for itself. Perhaps they just get a bad-press?

[El_Presidente]

Diging, I think its a combination of many things...sounds like I'm copping out. But...Why have adminers always lived in 'handbrake house'...scuffers always been eyed with deep suspicion...flight ops girls always been easy to catch in the bop...

Movers have the ability to make a trip pass off with perfect ease or to completely ruin your day. Fortunately I never suffered from the latter. And I flew on all of Betty's recent AT, from quite a few different places...

Maybe I was just lucky? Dunno.

:}

[diginagain]

...flight ops girls always been easy to catch in the bop...Ahhhhhhhh. Thanks for that.

Sorry. Where were we? Oh yes. Movers and their little insecurities. I hope that an answer emerges, but I am fortuitously well out of reach of the little manglers these days, although I see signs that their civilian counterparts are as skillful.

[Airborne Aircrew]

I'll just make a general observation if I may and then ask a simple, I think, question of the Movers here. Not pointing fingers at anyone or trying to make anyone look better than any others.

When I was in I had two "trades"... Firstly as a Rock and second as a Loadie. In both cases if there were lazy b:mad:ds, people who made us look bad, simply didn't, (want to ), fit in, etc. the lads themselves sorted out the offender. Not violence necessarily, but "strong words" would have been had.

It's clear from this conversation that not all Movers are bad and many had/have pride in what they do... Do Movers not see the incompetents/jobsworth types in their midst or, if they do, do they not wish to stop them from making the trade as a whole look bad?

[Laarbruch72]

I think AA, the more pressing question as far as this forum is concerned, is whether you have any recent experience of movers and movements.
As far as I can gather, you're (yet another) person whose experiences were in the 80's / 90's. Your posts seem to back that up.
I'm not a mover (sadly I'm even worse, a copper) but at least I have experience of ops up until 2012. My experiences haven't been bad to be honest.

Can you describe your experiences with movers since say, 2007, just for a snapshot of how it affected you adversely on your ops in the last 5 years?

[salad-dodger]

the more pressing question as far as this forum is concerned, is whether you have any recent experience of movers and movements.
As far as I can gather, you're (yet another) person whose experiences were in the 80's / 90's.
that would normally be a valid point L72, but as RAF Plod status is generally regarded as lower than a dog's belly (below movers), it doesn't really matter.

My last experience of RAF plod was in 2007.

S-D

[Airborne Aircrew]

Laarbruch72:

You'll note that I didn't express any opinion. The question is purely philosophical and, as such, needs no current experience.

But thank you for proving, (in your condescension), that while an old Rockape can understand a basic concept the RAF Police still can't. Tell you what, pass the keyboard to your dog... You're lucky, I'm fluent in German Shepherd....:}

[Laarbruch72]

Age: 12

There you go, your profile says it all. I'm not interested in your view of my old trade by the way, it's irrelevant, I'm just questioning the date of these views of movements. Do you have anything to add to the debate based on that factor?

[Steve Beaumont]

I love it, the bi monthly mover bashing thread by the same pprune internet warriors with nothing better to do with their own lives but discuss the movements trade. I think some of you secretly hanker after being a mover. Well you could always join the RAUXAF, or you could just continue to sit in front of your screen and keyboard slowly withering away. I'll come back next year and no doubt see the same people discussing the same topics.:sad:

[Laarbruch72]

Brilliant AA, your wide assumptions once again prove you're a bad 1980's / (or at best) 1990's caricature and therefore irrelevant to today's operations. The way you throw your opinions about daily on PPrune, anyone would be forgiven for thinking you're actually current on either RAF Regiment or RAF Loadmaster SOPs.

But you're not, are you?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

There you go, your profile says it all. I'm not interested in your view of my old trade by the way, it's irrelevant, I'm just questioning the date of these views of movements. Do you have anything to add to the debate based on that factor?

Questioning relevance in that manner is always going to tweak the tails of a few of those who cannot let go :ok:

[ENFP]

Well firstly I can't understand how so many movers can have reviewed this book. I have seen it and there are no pictures in it to colour in at all and no stickers to put in the book either.


I had just completed a short det in NI in the early 90's and was going to fly back to Germany via Herc. The Herc duly arrives at Aldergrove and I am in flying kit, carrying a big bergen and have my own personal weapons with me, 9mm and SA80. Stood at security is a mover and a plod, i approach they tell me to put my bergen through the x-ray..sure says I. They then made me take my aircrew knife off and put it through the machine, then as I was going to walk through the plod says 'weapons Sir!'! ....sorry says I...'put your weapons through Sir'.....but they are guns, they are weapons, what are you going to see on the x-ray machine??? You use the machine to see if people are hiding weapons, I am holding mine in front of you. Plod looks at Mover who returns an equally vacant stare and says 'procedures Sir, all carry on items must go through the X-ray machine. It kept me giggling all the way back to Gut and in fact even now.

And another thing, in the late 80's early 90's the movers had a massive scam going on shipping in beer, liqueur and cigs from Germany to Aldergrove. It was huge and obvious., with a minimum of one pallet on every flight!

[ratty1]

It kept me giggling all the way back to Gut and in fact even now.

Blimey, you must have such an exciting life.

[Airborne Aircrew]

Laarbruch72:

Nice way to avoid your lack of any sensible argument...

You injected yourself into a conversation that you weren't a part of and, mysteriously, grabbed the wrong end of a stick and decided to run with it anyway *. Now you trying to cover your irrelevance by questioning my unquestionable lack of currency, as if it's actually relevant. You're a sad person. Accept that, like most of your military career, you are in the wrong place at the wrong time talking to the wrong person about the wrong thing.

To try to get back to the thread, can any mover answer the question I asked before I was rudely interrupted... :ok:






* There's a joke there... :}

[ratty1]

You're a sad person. Accept that

Now that is comedy. It's all in the timing they say. Posts: 1,234. Pot and kettle.

[ENFP]

Blimey, you must have such an exciting life.

You just wouldn't believe it I tell you! ;)

[Laarbruch72]

That's a poor go at a comeback AA, it's extremely clumsy and misses the point on about 5 levels. So how current are you again? And yes it is relevant, seeing as the whole point of the OP is a current percieved criticism.

Can you sum up when you left exactly?

[ENFP]

Laarbruch72 When AA left is irrelevant. During GW1 the movers were taking swiss army knives that we paid for to be sent out to us, they were going through parcels, with a few exceptions of truly good people they were a bunch of thieving s**ts. Worst of all they broke the number 1 cardinal sin...don't steal from your own! Maybe the lads in the 90's left a legacy that did a disservice for those in the next decade, but you know....I don't think so. Attitudes are contagious is yours worth catching? It was a disease that just kept spreading, thieving from your own, during a war even. S**t sticks.

[Airborne Aircrew]

L72:

Troll... http://www.hqrafregiment.net/images/smilies/tease.gif

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Can you sum up when you left exactly?

Suffice to say it was a very very long time ago, 20 years or more I think :ok:

[NutLoose]

The only thing that will guarantee a efficient movement is

http://www.drug3k.com/img2/laxative_16198_6_(big)_.jpg

:p

[ENFP]

And when do we think Laarbruch "72" was in the mob then?

[Airborne Aircrew]

ENFP:

You're biting on a self proclaimed copper... Ignore him, they are the white noise of the military and, now they've worked out how to use a keyboard, they are inflicting the same upon the internet...

SFFP:

You used the phrase "I think"... While I'll admit there have been occasions where you have actually done so when we cross swords, those occasions are few and far between and this isn't one of them....

Good luck in your upcoming retirement, I'm so looking forward to it... :}:}:}

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

And when do we think Laarbruch "72" was in the mob then?

According to post #98 he was still experiencing Op's in 2012 :p

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

SFFP:

You used the phrase "I think"... While I'll admit there have been occasions where you have actually done so when we cross swords, those occasions are few and far between and this isn't one of them....

Good luck in your upcoming retirement, I'm so looking forward to it... :}:}:}

Go on then, just for the hell of it correct me :p

Retirement, can't wait and only a few short weeks to go. I can look back on over 38 years of loyal service, new challenges, difficult times, adversity and never once in all that time not facing up to everything thrown at me and meeting it at full speed, head on............................................but you can't say that can you :=

[Nomorefreetime]

ENFP.

Have you ever been in a position when you have had to carry a SA80 with live rounds for a long period of time in the 'made ready state', chances of loosing a live round with continued unloads ?

Have you ever looked properly at a SA80 ?

Well there is a nice green plug on the bottom of the trigger handle that can be removed and 2 live rounds can be hidden in, even more if you are a mover '2 cigerettes' or even worse a bit of 'gear'. It was a common hiding place for people who could loose a round in the line of their duty.

Any ideas what you might see on the X ray machine, now please get back in you box and comment on things you are a SME on.

[VinRouge]

Well there is a nice green plug on the bottom of the trigger handle that can be removed and 2 live rounds can be hidden in,


Sounds eminently sensible. Its not as if the plod have caught on to just culture when it comes to lost rounds or ND's yet is it?

[orgASMic]

Let's throw this dog another bone, shall we?

Laarbruch 72, if you want current Mover dits, how does one from last Sunday night grab you?

The wife and her team arrived at BZN at 2200 to check in early (pre-arranged) for their flight to sandy parts. The DAMO (a FS) told her "Sorry, ma'am, we can't check you in yet; we are checking in a flight to the Falklands and the bags might get mixed up". She waited for the laugh and the "Only kidding, ma'am. We will get you sorted straight away" but none was forthcoming.

Now we have all had bags go astray when on civvy flights; the number of bags going through a major airport is enormous and a few going AWOL is inevitable but if your solution to the problem is to check flights in sequentially rather than label the bags correctly and put them in separate piles, your imagination ranks only slightly higher than that of processed cheese.

The other end of the spectrum is my experience of lost bags. Brize to Thumrait in 2001 (Is that allowable L72? I am still serving, if that helps). My oppo and I are en route to Bagram via Oman. The troops from Ex SAIF SAREEA II are still coming home so the TriStar goes out with only the 2 of us and an Army major on board but will come back full. Needless to say, the major's bags never made it to the aircraft. Losing a third of the load does not give one faith. Even worse is the fact that it was another nail in the coffin of the RAF's reputation with the Army. As soon as movers realise that they are the RAF's shop front a lot of the time, then the good eggs (the vast majorty) will weed out the bad (a small but toxic minority).

[VinRouge]

To be fair though, I am sure we can all remember sh*t elements of every trade. The movers bless their cotton socks are at the front of the crowd in terms of pax interface, I find most of our issues come down to one problem - lack of or poor communication.

The movers do a fantastic job with the kit they have and the training they have too. I have been really impressed by the effort the guys put in, not least the oggies despite having minimal training and useless kit, manage to get the job done in tough conditions, with minimal rest. Work your guys 3 months in a row on continuous nights, sleeping in accom with poor air con through the day and guess what, people will make mistakes.

Whilst it may be fun to have a them and us, I would be alarmed if someone read this thinking that this was the opinion of every mover or aircrew mate, it is most certainly not.

[hellomoto]

Been great reading this thread, completely endorsed my decision to pvr last year. :ok:

So MANY a:mad:holes.

[mad_jock]

Well after reading said book which I might add I throughly enjoyed my kindle suggested I should read Main Battle Tank.

Again most enjoyable read.

But I note that the author had another go at a support arm.

Very brave saying that a REME recce mechs were a bullet short of a bandolier. He is just lucky most of them can't read that well. Your average recce mech wouldn't be throwing his handbag at you and writing nasty thing on the internet in a hissy fit. More like a 50 ton shackle or an anchor plate pin. ;)