Wisley....ah Vickers....(Merged)

[PFR]

Looking to find some good info on Wisley, the disused Airfield just off the A3. Use to be the flight test airfield for Vickers/BAC.
Photo's especially in it's hey day or contacts who might have some history.
Anybody know of any plans for it?
Thanks in advance :) PFR

[Polar_stereographic]

I live quite close to it. Last I heard it was owned by the same people who own Fairoaks. There was some agreement with the locals/LA that it would never operate as an airport ever again. Shame, it's got a VOR/DME on site and a hard runway (still there).

Rememmber also that Surrey CC are one of the councils that oppose any form of aviation, so any request for planing is more than likely to be turned down.

Anything in particulay you are after? Send me a private message if so.

Regards

PS

[R for Robert]

As I'm down at the Brooklands Museum every weekend (which is on the site of the old Vickers factory), I'll ask one of the guys currently sorting through the archives if we have any info on Wisley.

There is a planning application to build a waste incinerator on the site but the nimbys have put up fierce opposition.

Will let you know what I find in due course.

[ 20 December 2001: Message edited by: R for Robert ]</p>

[newswatcher]

PFR,

You may be interested in the following site:

<a href="http://www1.getmapping.com/sorry.asp?method=move&dir=Left&oseast=507825.38&osnorth=157629.1&cellId=1136149010005" target="_blank">http://www1.getmapping.com/sorry.asp?method=move&dir=Left&oseast=507825.38&osnorth=157629.1&cellId=1136149010005</A>

a little grainy, but you can pan left and right. Current plans for this site have included a waste incinerator, or housing development. Nothing confirmed yet, as far as I know.

You may also be interested in the following site:

<a href="http://home01.wxs.nl/~hiemi003/History/vc10_25years.html" target="_blank">http://home01.wxs.nl/~hiemi003/History/vc10_25years.html</A>

[PFR]

Thanks for the replies. Polar_stereographic I'll drop you a line - thanks also R for Robert, much appreciated if you can see what's in the archives. I'd love to have enough info/history, stories to write a book to give due recognition to the valuable part played by this forgotten airfield and the dedicated poeple both at Wisley and Weybridge who contributed so much to what was a heyday of British aviation. More's the pity we ain't got it now!
Is Hugh Tyrer still involved with the Brooklands Museum?
Newswatcher thanks also for your reply....I'd found the VC-10 sight earlier plus some good aerials from multimap, nevertheless all inputs welcome.
Thanks to all, more contributions always welcome
Seasons Greetings <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> PFR

[buzid]

A wee Q for the history buffs of Wisley; how were the '10's and other machines that were test flown from there transported to sight - in large sections and then re assembled? Was GARTA not originally flown from Brooklands runway or am I mis informed? Were the 1'11's also test flwown from Wisley or manufactured and flown from Hurn?

Ok, maybe more than one question........

[Daifly]

Wisley is indeed still owned by the owners of Fairoaks. The runway is still there, but now has bollards along its length to stop the car racing that used to go on (illegal racing of course!)

The Incinerator was turned down - because of the local Nimby lot, probably no bad thing, though there case was largely misinformed - still, at least it won't destroy OCK (Ockham VOR is on the site).

The VC10's were not assembled at Wisley (I think I'm right in saying, certainly Trubshaw's autobiog refers to them being positioned from Weybridge/Brooklands across). It makes interesting reading that book, and also combined with the comments of the "Old, Bold" brigade around these parts. Apparently they would take of with enough fuel for the 3 minute flight. And I mean, with enough for the 3 minute flight ONLY! But, those solid RAF types nevered wrapped one around Byfleet!

It's a great place, but sadly, like Brooklands (in total, but good on the museum for keeping some of it healthy) and inevitably Dunsfold, it isn't getting any younger and is gradually being consigned to the land reclamation past that was Surrey's aviation history.

Surrey CC are a real bunch of short sighted ******s, though there's a great (and by that I mean HUGE) opposition to anything remotely developmental within airports in Surrey/Middx. Dunsfold has to be the crime of the decade. BAe pulled out and the airport will not, because of the council's development plan, be able to be used for anything other than Harrier test flying. So, that'll be back to farmland again.

Kick off, that's what I say.

Mind you, if Wisley did reactivate it'd scare the sh*t out of drivers on the A3 - about 100 metres from the end of the runway! "But it weren't there when we built it!"

Ho hum, airport rape and pillage rant over!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

One of my work colleagues met Jock Bryce a few months ago and was entertained with some great stories from a totally unassuming gentleman.

[Hew Jampton]

All the 10s were flown out of Weybridge over to Wisley. However, G-ARTA went back in to Weybridge, possibly more than once. I was told that this aircraft also did all the deep stall tests; at one stage the stress engineers were calculating the 'life' of the tail in minutes. It was subsequently bought and operated by Fred, one hopes with a new tail!

[Saint-Ex]

It was not unusual to fly the -10s back into Weybridge. Wind had to be in the right direction because of the railway at the north end. Fire engines were ready at the end of the landing roll to put out any brake fires! Getting out was never a problem and one could load quite q reasolnable amount of fuel. Take off in a 1-11 from Weybridge was much more "exiting".

[DOC.400]

PFR -ref your book on Wisley. I'd check, if I was you, whether Julian Temple (Aircraft Curator-Brooklands) isn't writing one already........

[newswatcher]

Found a couple of photos, claiming to be at Wisley. They are copyright protected:

http://airlines.afriqonline.com/plne3218.jpg

http://airlines.afriqonline.com/3pln2283.jpg

[Bus429]

PFR - nice to see your interest in aviation is as strong as ever! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[DOC.400]

Since Wisley is ten minutes down the road and it was a nice afternoon to walk the dog.....

Access easy off A3 via Elm Lane. Park nr gate.

The old factory area has been flattened, but all of the concrete has been left, including some buried hangar door bottom rails. There are some sort of channels covered by concrete access covers about two feet wide for, I assume, services of some sort?

What stunned me was the slope of the taxiways upto the runway -must have taken some extra power to get up, and heavy on the brakes coming down.

The top pic above I can positively identify as at the 28 threshold. The other is quite distinctive from the joins in the concrete, that are still quite visible.

The centre line markings, instrument landing markings, 10 numbers, piano keys and yellow taxi lines are still visible on the runway. And WHAT I runway!! Still plenty of room to land a light plane at the west end.....

Still, nice place to let DOG.400 run around -but what a waste of good tarmac!!

[ 02 January 2002: Message edited by: DOC.400 ]</p>

[etsd0001]

I didn't know there was so much interest in Wisley.

Here is a shot of it in it's heyday:-

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.robinson16/Wisley.jpg

Regarding Wisley movements there is a booklet published by Cirrus Associates called Wisley Aerodrome - Record of Aircraft Movements 1954 -1969. It is by no means a comprehensive list but it gives a fair idea of what went on there.

I had a look round Wisley shortly after it closed. In the Fire Station sink I found a number of station logs which recorded everything that happened on the field. As they were of no use to anyone I 'borrowed' a few (I must take them back) and they make really interesting reading.

In the 50's they record Valiant flights over the weekend, imagine them getting away with that now in that area!

Another entry records the VC-10 structural test airframe arriving at the 'field up the narrow approach road.

G-ARTA touching down at 17:44 on Fri 29th June 1962.

Anther interesting entry is Ronald Biggs is suspected of being in the area to be picked up by a light a/c that night to be flown out of the country.

I wish I had taken all the logs now.

[folkyphil]

Looking at the view of Wisley posted by "etsd0001" has reminded me of the halcion days in the early '60s when BAC's D.H.Herons plied the Wisley-Hurn route daily, often in close formation.
I attended Brooklands Tech from Sept 66 to July 67. Lunchtime was spent, weather permitting, sitting on the Brooklands embankment eating sandwiches whilst waiting for the down "Bournemoth Belle" (still steam hauled on most days ), and of course watching the VC10/Super VC10s on the engine- running area.
I never saw anything take off, unfortunately!
Weekends invariably included a cyclle ride to Lasham (from my home at Farnham) where, on more than one occasion I "helped" with an engine run on an ACE Freighters DC4 !
Happy days indeed: sadly, I don't think our offspring will enjoy this sort of freedom....all the more reason to get such events recorded for posterity ?
More ramblings from me before long.
In the meantime , all the best for 2003 to one and all.
Folkyphil.

...Re. my last...should read "Bournemouth Belle"...two too many pints of "Old Hooky", maybe...!

[Boy_From_Brazil]

A few years ago, I used to be associated with one of the local Air Training Corps squadrons in the local area. We were informed that Wisley was used as one of the main bases to test fly the ill fated TSR2. The aircraft flew in with only basic instrumentation installed, and were fitted out at the airfield with the more sophisticated bits of kit.

Can anyone confirm this? Or is this one of the ATC legends.....

[etsd0001]

It's an ATC legend. The TSR2 was only flown from Boscombe Down intially, then it went up the Warton.

The Vicker's contingent at BAC wanted the a/c testing done from Wisley, while EE wanted it done from Warton. In the end the Government said it had to be done from Boscombe.

If you read Roland Beamont's books he say's Wisley's runway was too short in the case of a brake failure as the a/c would be the other side of the A3 before it came to a halt. Presumeably that was if the a/c survived the steep drop from the runway to A3 level.

Rgds
ETSD (ex-11F Sqdn ATC)

[Boy_From_Brazil]

ETSD

Is 11F the Walton on Thames ATC squadron? If so do you have any contact with Dave Reynolds, one of the squadron officers a few years back? If you do, perhaps you could email me with details.

Thanks
BFB

[t'aint natural]

Aviation lives on at Wisley.
The pub on the eastern airfield boundary, the Black Swan, is particularly welcoming of helicopters. You can beat up the airfield on the way in for pie and chips.
Watch for horses east of the pub.

[etsd0001]

http://groups.msn.com/WisleyAirfield

[etsd0001]

I recently acquired a programme for the R.Ae.S (Weybridge) Flying Display held at Wisley on 5 June 1966. The programme contains an article on the history of Wisley. It is reproduced below in full.

Wisley and all that
(with apologies to the 1956 Garden Party Programme)

Wisley – on the Portsmouth Road, one of the great roads of the county whose name conjures up romantic flights of historical fancy and which today, at Wisley, divides such strange neighbours. On the one side the famous gardens of the Royal Horticultural Society, where is practised the ancient art of cultivating gardens and where new varieties of flowers, fruits and vegetables are tried out. On the other side, Wisley Aerodrome where the 20th Century art of aviation is practised and where new types of aircraft from the British Aircraft Corporation are tested.

Ancient and modern, and the sites of both have their roots deep in English History.

Wisley Aerodrome is not, as one might think, in the parish of Wisley; perversely it is in the parish of Ockham. Both Parishes are mentioned in the Doomsday Book and, for the purposes of Ship Money, were assessed together – in the XIVth century at
£2 18s. 10d. and in 1636 at £13 3s. 4d.

Possibly Wisley – Wislei in the XIth century and Wyseleye in the XIIIth – still maintains its position as the second smallest parish in the hundred of Woking; even in 1938 Wisley had only three “private” and 12 “commercial” residents. The number of commercials in Ockham is not recorded.

Hyde Farm, on which Wisley Aerodrome is built, is properly in Ockham (or Occam?) and at the time of the Doomsday Book the manor held by Richard de Tonbridge and then, for several generations, by the Clares. Economists, having absorbed the figures on Wisley may like to know that when Gilbert de Clare died in 1296 an “inquisition” showed that he owned a fishery worth two shillings (although there had been two in the Doomsday Book worth 10d.) and two water mills worth 40 shillings.

More than 600 years later, near Wisley Pond, a farmhouse known as Hyde Farm, fronted by a large ornamental pond, was situated roughly in the centre of a series of large open fields traversed by Hyde Lane and several footpaths. No one would ever have thought that behind the dense woods, just 100 yards or so from one of the busiest roads in the kingdom, was land which was practically a natural aerodrome. Yet it was found, just when it was needed, by the late Captain “Mutt” Summers, for many years Chief Test Pilot of Vickers-Armstrongs, who force landed on it not long before the war.

When in 1942 Vickers-Armstrongs needed a larger airfield than Brooklands for the Weybridge works Captain Summers remembered his earlier “find” and the Wisley site was surveyed. It was found that a runway of some 2,300 yards could be obtained by clearing a few hedges and trees and filling in ditches and a pond. At the extreme end the ground fell away rapidly and, as there was no other ground as high for perhaps five miles, it would be like taking off from an aircraft carrier.

Three farms were involved in the negotiations, two of which Hyde Farm & Gules Hill Farm, were several hundred years old and had been occupied by the same families for several generations. The farmers were helpful and an amicable arrangement was made by which parts of the ground could continue to be used for sheep grazing. The farms – and sometimes the sheep – are still there, almost surrounding the aerodrome.

The site was acquired and work began in 1943. Grass was sown on the runway but that summer was an exceptionally dry one and to ensure a proper growth an automatic watering system was installed which is fed by a large diameter water main – laid all the way from Ripley.

The ornamental pond, which was sited where the present runway crosses the road which leads to the Air Traffic Control building, was filled in and the farm house, Hyde Farm, had to be demolished, but an old cottage nearby was converted to become the Air Traffic Control Building. This cottage still adds individuality and rural charm to the Wisley scene although honesty compels us to state that the original reason for retaining it was the utilitarian one of camouflage.

The latest air traffic control equipment is installed in the converted farmhouse which serves as Wisley “Tower”, and highly qualified controllers are maintained between Wisley, London Airport and Farnborough to co-ordinate air traffic movements. With the latest radar system, Wisley has been able on occasion to assist the London Airport controllers in tracking flights into & out of Heathrow.


Wisley

Runway: 6,690 x 225Ft asphalt
One grass runway

Decca MR 100 Surveillance Radar. CR/DF. CAD/F. UHF and VHF/RT

Decca Approach Radar 424.

Sodium runway lighting, Thom VASI approach lighting.



One casualty was the little hamlet of Elm Corner, consisting of a few houses only, on the North side of the Aerodrome. Hidden away and almost unknown, even to the residents of nearby Weybridge, this little hamlet, which is also part of the Ockham estate, had for years been linked with Ockham by the footpaths which crossed the fields. Since the coming of the aerodrome Elm Corner is more cut off than ever, its only access to Ockham being a longer and more round-about road. But if the footpaths have gone, Hyde Lane still remains: it is the little turning on the left immediately before the gates of the aerodrome.

Flight sheds were built while the grass runway was being cultivated and in 1944 Wisley was in full use and during the rest of the War much experimental flying was done from it, including work with various new bombs. In 1944 two V-1s fell in the field but only put it out of action for a couple of days.

Since the War new buildings and offices have been added from time to time and in 1952 the grass runway was converted to a hard one, the then relatively new process of stabilisation with cement being used. In fact, the work done on the runway at Wisley is regarded in the paving industry as one of the outstanding uses of this system of construction. The most recent additions to the buildings are the new fight sheds which are mainly used for the VC10.

Among the aircraft whose prototypes have made their maiden flights at Wisley are the Viking, Varsity, Valetta, Viscount 630, Viscount 700 and Valiant B.1 and B.2. The Viscount, that outstanding aeroplane which has itself made aviation history, has done most of its development flying Wisley.

The Vanguard, VC10 and Super VC10 have made their first landings at Wisley after taking off from the local B.A.C. airfield at Weybridge. All the civil aircraft since the Viscount, and now the BAC 1-11, have done most of their development flying from Wisley.

A complete organisation of pilots, flight observers and technicians is established at Wisley to cover all aspects of the flight testing of new prototype and production aircraft. This is of a most comprehensive character, having to satisfy not only the stringent requirements of British aviation authority but also those of the comparative national bodies of foreign customers, including America.

[PPRuNe Pop]

This subject has had a major hearing on this forum in recent months. Suggest you search.

[etsd0001]

Sorry, didn't realise this 1966 article had been posted recently. I only posted it in case anybody was interested, I won't bother next time.
It didn't show up in the list of similar posts at the bottom page when I posted it. The last thread specifically on Wisley was posted in 2005!

[jb.murdstone]

Please continue to bother. I'm sure I'm not the only one to find the history of Wisley interesting, and doing a search for Wisley on this forum didn't turn up the 1966 programme.

Your respondent's remark was immoderately brusque, to say the least.

JBMurdstone

[Cypherus]

Wisley is still there, though not a shadow of it's former self relegated as it is too occasional film work and dog walkers.

[Saab Dastard]

etsd0001 - thanks for posting, very interesting read. I've frequently walked around the airfield as it currently exists, as well as flying over it out of Fairoaks.

Cheers

SD

[PPRuNe Pop]

estd0001 just to explain a little more about searching. It is often an advantage, to the benefit of all, to merge previous threads so that all we have on a subject can be seen rather than start new threads which miss out on a much larger story.

Indeed, you yourself have posted in 2002 and 2005 about Wisley with interesting information and anecdotes, together with a good picture of Wisley which would not have been seen today.

Now I have merged the other threads with your new one which makes an overall more interesting subject.

It will also help to understand why mods moderate.

Enjoy.

[Pengellybob]

11F is the Brooklands squadron, not Walton. It was originally on the Brooklands site but is now in the grounds of Brooklands college next to Weybridge Rly station.
The squadron is in a healthy state, meets on Monday and Thursday evenings 19:30 - 21;30 and will always welcome any "old boys".

My son joinerd at age 13 and is now an adult sargeant, I am a member of the civillian committee.

[Saab Dastard]

Visited Wisley / Ockham for a long walk today - couldn't help noticing a) that the barriers across the runway are gone (PFLs, anyone?) and b) that an extensive survey (theodolites and stations sort of survey) was under way.

I wonder what's afoot!

SD

[DennisK]

Hi Wisley enthusiasts.

Just checking my log book as I recall landing there around 1972.

G-ATWR ... a PA 30 (Twin Com) landed and departed 6th January 72.

Anyone have a later legal landing?

Dennis Kenyon.

[WHBM]

One use of the old Wisley airfield is for an annual bus rally of all the enthusiast-owned old buses around London, when you can get in and explore all round the field. Several hundred buses go there for which an old runway is obviously ideal. The 2008 event is in a couple of weeks time on Sunday April 6. There are old bus tours which drive along the runway in addition to the surrounding roads. If you can recall those old BEA and BOAC buses from the 1970s going out to Heathrow, or the even older generations of these, there are apparently some going to be shown.

http://www.lbpt.org/events.html

[tsr2rivetter]

Although the previous posts on Wisley/TSR2 were some five years ago, I've only just read them! There was a connection between Wisley and TSR2, it was originally considered to use Wisley for TSR2 and a mock-up of TSR2 was made from 'scaffold poles !' It was then attempted to tow this beast by road to Wisley to test the feasability of doing same with the real thing but the idea was abandoned due the mass of natural obstructions.
The mock-up was built in a hangar known as the the 'running shed' at Weybridge and as an eighteen year old apprentice at the time I never appreciated what a picture of it would mean today as I have not seen such a photograph in any TSR2 publications, unless anyone knows different?

[chevvron]

A film set was in view on the runway in '85/86. I think the film was called 'Hope and Glory' set in WW2. Earlier, a WW1 film with replica aircraft was filmed in a field about a mile to the west near Ripley, and in the mid 70s, a captive balloon and kite operated on the airfield for research into acid rainfall.