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El Grifo
9th May 2012, 18:18
Bit behind the curve news-wise, but on return from one of the more northerly sandpits, I am hearing convoluted tales of a failed bomb attempt by somone who was apparently a double agent who had infiltrated Al Qaeda. I dont have too many details but it appears to have happened in the last week or so.

Maybe it is an old story being regurgitated, I do not know.

Any pointers ??

rgbrock1
9th May 2012, 18:22
El Grifo:

You heard correctly. A double-agent who infiltrated Al-Qaeda, was supposed to have worn a new type of underwear bomb, presumably made in Yemen.

Being a double-agent, however, the bomb was handed over to American intelligence agencies for review.

Saudi Arabia provided the double-agent!

For more info:

Excite News - Form-fitting underwear bomb built to foil security (http://apnews.excite.com/article/20120509/D9UL99RG0.html)

El Grifo
9th May 2012, 18:35
I was about to say "well blow me down" but not quite correct in the circumstances !

Thanks rgb :ok:

El Grifo
9th May 2012, 19:08
So was there no trace back to the bomb factory or attempt to track down the team ??

Seems a little basic simply just to hand the device over !

G-CPTN
9th May 2012, 19:10
The subsequent public disclosure seems 'strange' . . .

rgbrock1
9th May 2012, 19:18
There's more to it than the intelligence agencies are letting onto right now as the operation is still active.

The bomb is probably the work of that Al-Qaeda kook named Ibraham Hassan al-Asiri whose current residence is believed to be in Yemen. He seems to be the resident expert in bomb-making.

Hopefully, once the intelligence agencies wrap up their work a certain drone, or drones, will make an unexpected but very welcome visit to Mr. al-Asiri and his band of merry mischief makers.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
9th May 2012, 19:26
The agent also provided sufficient info for an AQ leader to be taken out via a bit of 'drone plinking' not long after.

I would think the announcement of the agent has been done to get them suspicious of each other. With any luck they'll start doing our work for us. You can probably work out how many agents there are still in place if this announcement has been made.

500N
9th May 2012, 19:29
" The subsequent public disclosure seems 'strange' . . ."

Agree, although someone must have authorised it and they have
a reason for doing it.


According to the media, they have been after the bomb maker
for ages but don't know where he is except Yemen.

The rest of the "team" that the spy infiltrated was taken out by a strike
once he had crossed the border into Saudi Arabia with the bomb
(according to media reports).

Either way, a good outcome but I do wonder about all the publicity.

rgbrock1
9th May 2012, 19:36
I think the announcement and subsequent media publicity were done for the reason fox3 alluded to below: have the remaining
thugs start getting suspicious of each other. "Is he a mole?", "Is he a double-agent working for the West?" That kind of thing.

Divide and conquer tactics.

Having said all that, the medja is portraying it as a failed underwear bombing attempt. No such attempt was ever made because the reason stated earlier: the underwear bomber was a mole of Saudi intelligence and had no intention of following through with the latest and greatest in underwear bomb technology. but, as usual and as expected, the medja has to put their mindless spin on it.

El Grifo
9th May 2012, 19:42
Will be interesting to see how this thing unfolds, but "strange" is the word lurking in the back of my head.

Whilst I accept that Divide and conquer tactics is a possibility, it is not something that we encounter very often.

Cards are normally held very close to chest !!

lomapaseo
9th May 2012, 19:49
The release of the info is directly related to political gains and influence. Since the public doesn't participate in these games except via the news media releases they will never understand why.

Ask yourself, did this release increase somebodies influence or diminish it. Whoever gained the most in this balance was the reason.

rgbrock1
9th May 2012, 19:51
loma:

I think you're onto something there. :D

El Grifo
9th May 2012, 19:58
The release of the info is directly related to political gains and influence. Since the public doesn't participate in these games except via the news media releases they will never understand why.


Cannot argue with that Amigo, I await more info however :ok:

11Fan
9th May 2012, 20:12
Agree, although someone must have authorised it and they have a reason for doing it.

Yeah, that's worked out for us real well thanks to Eric Holder and his band of buddies.

On another note, information just released from the last attempted underwear bomber. Apparently when initially questioned while going through airport security he stated that he was a University Student and was carrying a full load that semester.

rgbrock1
9th May 2012, 20:13
El Grifo:

For more info from the Chicken Noodle News website:

Sources: Saudi counterterrorism work broke up new AQAP plane plot - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/09/world/meast/al-qaeda-plot/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)

Of course anything from CNN should be taken with a grain of salt. But it does appear this was a Saudi counter-terrorism operation from start to finish.

11Fan wrote:

he stated that he was a University Student and was carrying a full load that semester.

Snicker, snicker!!!!! But that all Depends!!!!!!!

vulcanised
9th May 2012, 20:47
The subsequent public disclosure seems 'strange' . . .


My immediate thought on hearing about it was 'Bit early for the elections isn't it'.

con-pilot
9th May 2012, 20:55
Snicker, snicker!!!!! But that all Depends!!!!!!!


Nice pun, well done! :ok:

El Grifo
9th May 2012, 21:16
Bit of a kerfuffle going on within the US intelligence agencies, over who leaked the info.

Saudis seriously pissed !!

At least that is what we are given to believe !

con-pilot
9th May 2012, 21:27
Bit of a kerfuffle going on within the US intelligence agencies, over who leaked the info.


Well gee, there will be a Presidential election in just a few months and this happened just after the anniversary of killing of OBL.

Three guesses just who leaked the story and the first two guesses don't count. :p

G-CPTN
9th May 2012, 21:30
Wasn't there a young Marine Corps clerk that blew something to Wikileaks?

Bradley Manning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning) I believe.

Could there be another?

con-pilot
9th May 2012, 21:37
Wasn't there a young Marine Corps clerk that blew something to Wikileaks?

Bradley Manning I believe.

Could there be another?

A minor point, Manning is in the Army, he was not a Marine.

I stand by my thinking that it was someone in the Obama Administration or a strong supporter of Obama, that leaked the information, that should have not been released.

G-CPTN
9th May 2012, 21:42
A minor point, Manning is in the Army, he was not a Marine.My mistake - it's just that he was being held in the Marine Corps Brig in Virginia made me assume that he was a Marine (just as SAS members seem to be described as Parachute Division when it all goes TU for them).

pigboat
9th May 2012, 21:42
I wonder how many more underwear plots will be foiled between now and November?

con-pilot
9th May 2012, 22:04
My mistake - it's just that he was being held in the Marine Corps Brig in Virginia made me assume that he was a Marine (just as SAS members seem to be described as Parachute Division when it all goes TU for them).

No problem, easy mistake to make. The actual location of where Manning is being kept is secret. But the is in one of these locations, Quantico VA, Fort Mead MD or at Fort Levenworth KS. That much the Army will admit.

When he comes to trial, I would expect him to be moved closer to where the court martial will be held. He is under Military Justice, not civil.

El Grifo
9th May 2012, 22:12
Well worth the fishing trip. Back story slowly emerging !

Thanks guys :ok:

tony draper
9th May 2012, 22:17
Surely tiz a old intelligence ruse,make the bearded ones look askance at each other wondering if their buddy in terror's heart is really with the prophet or is he working for uncle sam.
Just sowing the seeds of doubt.
:E

B Fraser
9th May 2012, 22:57
So the underpants bomber was really a crack agent on the fly or a secret dick from one of the top drawers. His handlers must be going nuts that they cocked up. Perhaps they'll be more wise next time, use different jocks and not get nicked.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/content/images/2007/08/03/tworonnies_1_396x222.jpg


It's goodnight from me and it's goodnight from him.

El Grifo
9th May 2012, 23:17
Let's see what the morning brings :D

racedo
9th May 2012, 23:32
Reminds me of the old Dick Emery sketch where of 20 odd people in a room all apart from 2 worked for various different police / military and other agencies........its an oldie as he died in 1983......................funnily enough it sprang to mind that possibly everyone involved worked for someone else with no real enemy anywhere close.

El Grifo
10th May 2012, 10:20
Nothing new on the networks today.

Maybe they have managed to put a lid on it :ugh:

El G.

OFSO
10th May 2012, 12:36
Surely the obvious solution to people placing bombs in their underpants, given the fact that it is near-impossible to ban bombs, is to ban underpants ? Logically one should follow this up by requiring skirts to be worn by ladies and kilts to be worn by men (that is by the Sassenachs who are not already wearing kilts).

Post 1077 on "Friday Jokes" takes care of the kilt aspect, but I'm sure someone on JB can post a picture of the consequences of compliance among the fair sex, perhaps of a fruity young lady about to clamber into a helicopter ?

rgbrock1
10th May 2012, 13:48
con-pilot wrote:

A minor point, Manning is in the Army, he was not a Marine.

A minor point con? A minor point? How dare you.

No alcoholic beverages for you for 18 months.

El Grifo
10th May 2012, 13:52
No alcoholic beverages for you for 18 months.

Bit harsh innit ?

Waterboarding, chemical castration, removal of the right hand, anything but no booze ! :eek: :eek:

rgbrock1
10th May 2012, 14:00
For someone to write that the difference between a jarhead (US Marine) and an Army soldier is minor, deserves such punishment.

Bad, con-pilot, bad. Get on your newspaper and stay there.

G-CPTN
10th May 2012, 14:09
I think con-pilot was being polite in pointing out my error . . .

B Fraser
10th May 2012, 14:41
Thankfully the security detail protecting Her Majesty are avoiding all risks.

http://web.ripnet.com/~nimmos/images/next_to_queen.jpg

OFSO
10th May 2012, 14:51
You suggest HRH is wearing no underpants ?

HOW DARE YOU !

El Grifo
10th May 2012, 15:20
Hate to mensh, but I think the guy on her Maj's R/H side is packing :eek:

MagnusP
10th May 2012, 15:23
You suggest HRH is wearing no underpants ?

If we were talking HRH Kate, then I'd be more interested. :E

El Grifo
10th May 2012, 18:58
Joking aside, the story has completely vanished from all of the channels available here. It is like it never happened.

Anything being discussed on the networks Stateside ?

rgbrock1
10th May 2012, 19:11
El Grifo:

Just like Casper the Friendly Ghost - how you see him, now you don't - the entire story has vanished from all the major news networks over here. The last anything was mentioned about it on any of the medja outlets was about 22 hours ago.

Very strange. I wonder if Mr. Holder "instructed" the networks to keep a lid on it?

Very odd indeed.

racedo
10th May 2012, 19:43
Not odd at all as where is the evidence that the story actually exists rather than a couple of leaks and statements with the press hanging on every word of the success of the mission ?

Milo Minderbinder
10th May 2012, 19:51
If you Google for new on "bomb" there are plenty of hits from the last hour or so

e.g. at random
Source: Saudi Agent In Bomb Plot Held UK Passport - National News Story - WLWT Cincinnati (http://www.wlwt.com/nationalnews/31043184/detail.html)
Plot fizzled as al-Qaida unwittingly handed its cunning new bomb to the CIA (http://www.montrealgazette.com/travel/Plot%20fizzled%20as%20al-Qaida%20unwittingly%20handed%20its%20cunning%20new%20bomb%20 to%20the%20CIA/6591645/story.html)
Intelligence officials reviewing bomb plot leaks - chicagotribune.com (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-security-plot-congressbre8481gn-20120509,0,6131566.story)

Couple of points come out of this
1) the claim that the "double" had a UK passport
2) the suggestion that they're using lead azide as a detonator. Messy if they're making it themselves, but increases the chance of the thing working


Whats possibly more worrying is this other news which is breaking today of a bomb attempt in Kenya
British terror suspect Jermaine Grant 'planned to bomb UK tourists in Kenya' | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2142524/British-terror-suspect-Jermaine-Grant-planned-bomb-UK-tourists-Kenya.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)
BBC R4 said that one of the chemicals found was "Nitrogen peroxide" - that equates to Dinitrogen tetroxide, or the "T-Stoffe" German V2 fuel
Not good news at all if they are making that

rgbrock1
10th May 2012, 20:01
One does have to wonder what types of chemical substances AQ may be working with and, even worse, how it might be used.

Remember the Sarin attacks in Tokyo back in the 90's? And that was undertaken by amateurs.

I shudder to think of a similar attack but on a much greater scale initiated by the low-lifes of AQ.

Eradicate. Eradicate. Eradicate. AQ must be eradicated.

racedo
10th May 2012, 20:05
Eradicate. Eradicate. Eradicate. AQ must be eradicated.

George Orwell 1984 is a good read.

rgbrock1
10th May 2012, 20:16
racedo:

I'm not sure I understand the connection between my eradicate AQ mantra and George Orwell's 1984. (The latter of which I did read but way back when.)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6d/Flag_of_INGSOC.svg/400px-Flag_of_INGSOC.svg.png

vulcanised
10th May 2012, 20:38
I wonder if Mr. Holder "instructed" the networks to keep a lid on it?


Told them not to disgusset?

I really am sorry.

27mm
11th May 2012, 07:54
So, what underpants are favoured for this - Y-fronts, boxers, spanx, thongs or budgie-smugglers?:E

sitigeltfel
11th May 2012, 08:02
A news outlet has revealed the undercover agent was British. US security sources are said to be looking for the source of the "leak". ;)

MagnusP
11th May 2012, 08:55
So, what underpants are favoured for this

Dolce & Gobang

El Grifo
11th May 2012, 09:43
A recent report from the US states that the person carrying the device was in fact a British Agent of middle eastern origin.

Is this yet another smokescreen to protect or kow-tow to the Saudis, or was the original Saudi connection just a "clerical error" :ugh:

stuckgear
11th May 2012, 09:47
British secret agent was al-Qaeda mole who cracked new 'underpants' bomb plot - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/9258475/British-secret-agent-was-al-Qaeda-mole-who-cracked-new-underpants-bomb-plot.html)



personally, i don't know what all the pussy footing about is for. we should just set Germaine Greer on the Taliban/AQ

Mr Optimistic
11th May 2012, 10:12
Have we had all the bomb in underpants jokes yet? Is that a bomb in your underpants or are you just pleased go see me? It must take balls....

27mm
11th May 2012, 11:19
Could use my mum-in-law's knickers - they would hold a GBU or 2....:E

B Fraser
11th May 2012, 11:44
Dolce & Gobang

:D

More likely (skid)Marx & Sparks or in this case Agent Provocateur or Victorious Secret.

Please note that I'm only familiar with the last two as my other half has bankrolled them for several years. :E

vulcanised
11th May 2012, 12:44
the undercover agent was British

Seems everyone is these days.

crisso
11th May 2012, 12:55
Wasn't 'T-Stoff' mentioned above, part of the fuel that the Me-163 'Komet' Rocket powered Interceptor used and not the V2 Rocket?
Mind you, either way, since it can apparently dissolve organic material, perhaps a fortunate leak in the bombers y-fronts may dissolve his goolies prior intended detonation...!

As for the current suspect holding a UK Passport - why am I not surprised and frankly, don't blame the Yanks for closely scrutinising prior entry, all British visitors to their shores!

CATIII-NDB
11th May 2012, 13:12
Just wondering if all of this "Activity" by the "spooks" or "Special services" who seem to be very vocal about their achievements in saving humanity from exploding underpants and no doubt wearer(s), is linked to the forthcoming election in the USA.

We don't know the status of the plot, whether its a fantasy ? or at the redeem the voucher stage.

There's a total lack of detail (they are out there in the mountains and speaking Chinese ! - Credit to Phil Ochs by the way) - in the press reports, (howl,bark,bark, panic) that lack any independent validation.

More importantly, I would venture the idea; that the body culture of groups of people, that might harbor intents like this, is counter to the mode of transportation and delivery of a device as described.

No doubt someone better informed than I will let us know of precedents that contradict my view point.

Bin Laden is dead and AQ has been denied a figurehead that could manipulate ideals, however perverse.

The West faces threats and they are far more profound than AQ or the Taliban - Most of the problems stem from gross inequalities of Wealth, the abysmal neglect of Russia by the Clinton Regime and the IMF allowing the rise of Putin, the Euro Rot! and internal social tensions in countries governed like the UK.

Oh well off to M & S with my birthday voucher - I have not bought any underpants for the best part of * years (Ahhh - lets not go there CAT say a billion PPRuNers ) - Pretty smart on my part, me thinks.

Lets see Red, White and Blue and hopefully not XL.

rgbrock1
11th May 2012, 13:24
27mm:

It may very well be that your mum-in-law's knickers could hold a GBU or 2. But my mother-in-law's got yours beat hands down.

My MIL's undies (banish that image) could very well hold an ICBM or two. Or three. Or......

B Fraser
11th May 2012, 13:35
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41PKEXA7WXL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Do you think the authorities ought to be informed about this ?

rgbrock1
11th May 2012, 14:09
Chicken Noodle News (CNN) is reporting that one of the reasons why the Saudi born but UK passport-holding mole was "attractive" to Al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula was because with his UK passport he could travel to the U.S. without having to worry about a Visa.

Is this true, you do not need a Visa to come to the U.S. if you have a British passport? I've never heard of that before.

Solid Rust Twotter
11th May 2012, 14:10
Very few Rhodesians wear shreddies so that should speed things up a bit in the queues.:}




Too much information, you say? Is that my taxi? So kind...

MagnusP
11th May 2012, 14:14
RGB, there's a visa waiver programme for certain countries and that allows tourist or business visits up to 90 days without a visa.

rgbrock1
11th May 2012, 14:22
So this visa waiver program exists for British passport holders then?

G-CPTN
11th May 2012, 14:24
Visa requirements for British nationals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_British_nationals#Visa_policy_of_the_U nited_States_for_British_passport_holders)

rgbrock1
11th May 2012, 14:30
Thanks for the link, G-CPTN. I was not aware of this Visa Waiver Program. Quite a few countries are part of the VWP, much to my surprise.

I need to get out more!!!!!

radeng
11th May 2012, 16:34
I suspect that they haven't realised that they could make money by charging for visas........

Turkey the other year.

Entry visa, bought on arrival. French or Italian - free
British - £10
Irish, Dutch, German, Swedish - Ä15
US - $20

Still we do have ESTAS for the US. Supposedly an O'Bama thing to raise money to encourage tourism..........although $15 for 3 years doesn't break the bank, a family of 4 going on a holiday might not be so pleased with $60.


Mrs radeng tells me that a multiple entry Chinese visa with a 4 day turn round is over £200.

FlyerFoto
11th May 2012, 21:18
Personally, I can't see the point in an underpants bomb - it seems a bit of a waste heading off to the 60 (or whatever the quantity) virgins, if you've just blown your b*ll*cks off....!

11Fan
11th May 2012, 21:23
It's 72 I believe.

if you've just blown your b*ll*cks off....!

You just queue in a different line then.

OK, we got one here, just need 71 more

racedo
11th May 2012, 22:19
I'm not sure I understand the connection between my eradicate AQ mantra and George Orwell's 1984.

Need an enemy and media inspired enemy and reported success keeps the Proles happy....

Matari
12th May 2012, 04:48
If anyone is Orwellian, it's not the messy, bumbling western democracies, but the totalitarian fascists who slice off the heads of people on camera and kill little girls on their way to school.

Captain Sand Dune
12th May 2012, 07:53
But you can't say things like this
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/05/total-war-islam/?pid=1196[/URL] about 'em otherwise you'll offend their oh so delicate sensibilities.

El Grifo
12th May 2012, 09:16
Drink to that Matari :D

racedo
12th May 2012, 10:37
If anyone is Orwellian, it's not the messy, bumbling western democracies,

Right which is why every telephone call you make is logged, your presence on the interweb can be looked at by various Govt agencies and whichever foreign Govts they like, your personal spending is easily accessible, people fed on a diet of latest BGT / X Factor / whatever by govt supported media who set the agenda, everywhere you go in major cities is logged on camera, your car is easily picked up on roadside cameras, your mobile tells govt where you are at all time and you on facebook you telling them who your friends and acquantinces are and what you doing with photos.

OFSO
12th May 2012, 12:30
But other than that, racedo, what have the govenments ever done for us ?

May I quote (roughly as it is from memory) from John Brunner's "The ShockWave Rider" published 1975 where he says - in satire, quoting the goverment point of view - that who could possibly object to 'them' knowing everything about you and where you are at any time when this then includes the ability for an ambulance to arrive at the scene of an accident you've been involved in, carrying blood of the right group for you ?

Good book, well ahead of its time, much has come true in the past 37 years, most of it bad.

El Grifo
12th May 2012, 12:44
If you got nothing serious to hide, then why worry.

Let the evil sons and daughters of cousins, with the plan to force the world to adopt thier backward thinking, do all of the worrying :ok:

racedo
12th May 2012, 14:13
If you got nothing serious to hide, then why worry.

Let the evil sons and daughters of cousins, with the plan to force the world to adopt thier backward thinking, do all of the worrying

Because it then leaves it to someone who decides that you have something to hide and the state will then investigate until it finds something that it will suit its purpose.

How many Westerners die in attacks by Govts or their sponsored organisations v How many middle easterners die in attacks by western govts or their sponsored organisations......................the latter is substantially high than the former.

Using a drone attack on a wedding because it is claimed that it has someone who is a member of whatever organisation is now deemed so acceptable that it might make page 4 and would not be headline news. Where as if the same happened in the west by a middle eastern group the media would be full of it.

El Grifo
12th May 2012, 14:45
Something has to change !

If it does not, what is happening right now will seem like a sunday school picnic.

Because it then leaves it to someone who decides that you have something to hide and the state will then investigate until it finds something that it will suit its purpose.



Believe me, I am very happy that at at least someone has their eye on the situation, or scenes like Kings Cross would be a monthly spectacle !

radeng
12th May 2012, 14:51
One wonders that, if the West had not supported Israel in any way, would there have been all these terrorist attacks?

It's a 'what if' question.

El Grifo
12th May 2012, 15:36
Quite possibly exacabated the situation, but the ambitions of the caliphate go back a long way before that !!

We are now treading on thin ice by the way !

racedo
12th May 2012, 19:04
Something has to change !

If it does not, what is happening right now will seem like a sunday school picnic.

Believe me, I am very happy that at at least someone has their eye on the situation, or scenes like Kings Cross would be a monthly spectacle !



Think you are delusional if you think its in your interests...............its in theirs and it means the power to do as they please. When you become a threat either via democracy or by expressing an opinion that is not welcomed you will find the Hydra will be unforgiving.

Best thing west can do is exit from middle east / afghanistan, let them do whatever they wish to do but sell them no arms or ammunition.

If they seek to visit terror after an exit then return it but at the moment west is the one who is and has been visit terror in its efforts to seek oil and control what is going on.

Currently western govts do as they please overseas and use "terror" as the basis for this and act surprised when others visit it on their home countries.

El Grifo
12th May 2012, 19:55
Hence the reason why I say something has to change.

The western world is facing a very bleak future if something does not change (an possibly a very bleak future anyway)

What is it that I am delusional about, I was not 100% clear on that bit, sorry !

El Grifo
13th May 2012, 10:38
Nothing to say then about old Mr. Delusional then racedo ??

When you become a threat either via democracy or by expressing an opinion that is not welcomed you will find the Hydra will be unforgiving.


Is this a reference to how apparent anti-žslamic comments are often received, as we have seen over the years, or am I missing the point ?


El G.

racedo
13th May 2012, 15:11
What is it that I am delusional about, I was not 100% clear on that bit,

Delusional in your belief that someone has their eye on the situation, they only have their eye on how it affects them not how it affects anybody else....

If it causes bombs to go off in Madrid, who cares is their mantra as will only ensure they get more cash and power.

racedo
13th May 2012, 15:13
Is this a reference to how apparent anti-žslamic comments are often received, as we have seen over the years, or am I missing the point

You missing the point as the threat to your and my way of life is more from within than without as those within seek to control more and say it is in "our" interests as it will protect us.

El Grifo
13th May 2012, 17:43
Right which is why every telephone call you make is logged, your presence on the interweb can be looked at by various Govt agencies and whichever foreign Govts they like, your personal spending is easily accessible, people fed on a diet of latest BGT / X Factor / whatever by govt supported media who set the agenda, everywhere you go in major cities is logged on camera, your car is easily picked up on roadside cameras, your mobile tells govt where you are at all time and you on facebook you telling them who your friends and acquantinces are and what you doing with photos

Look, they either have their eye on the situation or the don't. You cannot have it both ways, The have rounded up a few morons since Kings Cross or Atocha and to date nothing really similar has happened.

You missing the point as the threat to your and my way of life is more from within than without as those within seek to control more and say it is in "our" interests as it will protect us.

Rubbish, no one in UK or Spanish government is going to blow me, or any one of my family to bits for the sake of some misguided belief, and that is a fact.

The "governments" for better or worse, wish to preserve what is left of the status quo, the other lot want to force thier medieval beliefs down our throats by use of terror. I know on which side my alliegences lie.

The much lesser of the two evils !

Happy Daze

El G.

racedo
13th May 2012, 18:54
Rubbish, no one in UK or Spanish government is going to blow me, or any one of my family to bits for the sake of some misguided belief, and that is a fact.

Right and GAL or British Govts shoot to kill policy were just dreams...........

El Grifo
13th May 2012, 19:05
Stretching credibility a bit now don't you think.

A bit silly really :ugh:

How many times have you had a gun pointed at you, never mind discharged, on your way to Tesco's ?

racedo
13th May 2012, 19:30
How many times have you had a gun pointed at you, never mind discharged, on your way to Tesco's

The same number of times I have had Islamic terrorists try and blow me up.....

Police brutality: The camera is mightier than the sword | The Economist (http://www.economist.com/node/13497460?story_id=13497460)

Not a single member of HM Constabulary has been convicted of murder or manslaughter following death of civilians in the UK in last 20 years irrespective of the nature of that incident and thats looking at 400 deaths following initial contact with police. Some will be natural causes but no way are all.

El Grifo
13th May 2012, 19:42
This going on a bit now, sorry folks !

Look mate, I have family in London and I visit London often, I never, ever ever, have fear being shot or otherwise by HM Constabulary.

On the other hand, the possibility of crossing paths with one of the nutters of Allah has occasionaly strayed accross my mind.

That is not for one moment to say that HM Constabulary are in any way squeaky clean, just look at Menezes as an example.

I love the idea of security cameras all over London, I do not give a sh*t if my emails are read by the state, I am just delighted that with any luck , these processes will stop these callous murderers doing their thing on Britains streets !

Feel free to come back at me, but we are going no where with this argument.

One final question which I wonder if you will answer. Are you yourself muslim ?

radeng
13th May 2012, 20:29
Grifo,

If your bank account details got made public by a blunder - such as leaving a memory stick unencrypted on a train, wouldn't that cause you some annoyance?

The more information they can get, the greater the possibility of it getting into the wrong hands or becoming public.

As to why no policemen have been convicted of murder for shooting innocent people is totally beyond me, and I consider it a travesty of justice. It was said that if a policeman was convicted, all of the rest would turn in their guns, and so no convictions have happened. Seems strange but 'There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy'.

OFSO
13th May 2012, 20:40
How many times have I had a gun pointed at me....although not on the way to Tesco's ? Well, by civilian police:

a) Several times when I lived in Germany, when the Baader-Meinhof gang were active, stopped in police roadblocks, not so much a gun as a Heckler and Koch semi-automatic rifle.

b) Several times at Rome Leonardo da Vinci airport during security checks, can't identify weapon but another semi-automatic, perhaps an AKM. Period was when the Red Brigades were active.

This is a thread drift I know but I would be a lot happier if when being questioned the policeman holding the weapon didn't look about 17 years old and very very nervous.

Logic suggests to me that given the ratio of armed terrorists in public places to armed police who don't have live ammunition training very often, in Western Europe, we might be more at risk from the latter, but I don't have any statistics to prove this.

El Grifo
13th May 2012, 20:43
Gettin a bit to specific now ! Next thing it will be dates and times .

Security cameras and email intercepts are my bag. Long may they exist to catch the nutters.

Now would that be the 7.35 from Clapham Junction or the 7. 48 :ok:

Aethiest by the way just in case racedo was wondering !

OFSO
13th May 2012, 20:57
By the way, El Grifo, your comment about nobody in the Spanish government blowing you away for religious beliefs. Well, not for that......

....but the year I arrived in Spain, 1993, there was an incident in (I believe) l'Escala, when a member of the Guardia Civil was acompanying an inspector checking freshly caught fish sizes in the wholesale market. An old woman made a derogatory remark to the inspector, the Guardia spoke to her sharply, she called him a rude word, incensed, he pulled his sidearm and shot her through the head, or in the words of the police report his gun was accidently discharged and unfortunately it was in her direction.

Source: an English friend of mine who was living with a member of the Figueras Guardia Civil. A year later this man was also in trouble for discharging a semi-automatic weapon in a bar in Roses when inebriated.

Put aside for a moment the debt we own to police and military forces for protecting us from terrorists (for which I am grateful, having had an IED explode near me in Roses a few years ago, killing a local policeman): but I do regard the paramilitary forces in Spain with some degree of caution.

And you should too.

El Grifo
13th May 2012, 21:38
1993 eh ! Yo tambien. Not a day too soon :D

Well the peninsula is the peninsula. I am insular :ok: 20 years behind probably


Summer with you yet ? 28c and 21.36 right now.

Arehucas and music on the terrace !

racedo
13th May 2012, 22:29
On the other hand, the possibility of crossing paths with one of the nutters of Allah has occasionaly strayed accross my mind.

That is not for one moment to say that HM Constabulary are in any way squeaky clean, just look at Menezes as an example.


Sunday Times today carried a quote from Sir Robert Mark in the 1970's when he was Met Commissioner.............."I want the police to catch more criminals than I employ in my force"..................nothing has changed. You are more likely to come into contact with a Nutter policeman than a nutter of Allah..............something which I asked about in a thread regarding police complaints a couple of weeks ago.

I happy to assist HM Constabulary to ensure people safe but I wouldn't trust them either.

Matari
14th May 2012, 05:10
GWB had a bold plan, the results of which are yet to be determined. His administration believed that the root of the problem was with the suffocating, oppressive and regressive culture in the Arab world and subcontinent. This toxic culture led to unemployed, uneducated masses of young men who knew more about suras than semiconductors. It was a nihilistic culture that taught to kill instead of cultivate.

But this was not a problem with the entire Muslim world, since the Islam practiced in SouthEast Asia for example has allowed that region to progress remarkably over the last decades.

So the thinking went, if you liberate the people in one of the most repressive totalitarian regimes in the world, and give them a chance to defy all odds and build a democratic society, the spark of that effort would spread and the others would topple one by one.

Thus freed, the unemployed masses would devote their attention to building their own societies, rather than tearing down those of others.

The jury is still out, but in twenty or so years we might say it all went to plan.

rgbrock1
14th May 2012, 15:23
BandAide wrote:

How do we identify, neutralize, capture, and/or kill them without unduly compromising our free society? That is the key question of our age.

Capture? No capture needed. Just kill 'em.

OFSO
14th May 2012, 15:51
Summer with you yet ? 28c and 21.36 right now.

Nice here but a cool breeze. Snow still visible on the mountains. Ants in the pit lane, waiting for the off.

Had to get the Cultural Centre and Tourist Office in Perelada unlocked this morning, art exhibition ended yesterday and wanted to retrieve Mrs OFSO's sculpture which has been in display. Called the town hall, they sent a Policia Locale over with the keys. I mention this because as usual he was armed. Obviously you and I don't think twice about this, but folk in England would look askance at a pistol-toting policeman just to open a small-town exhibition hall.

I'm worried about the title of this thread. A failed bomb in someone's underpants I understand, but what if it was the underpants which failed ? Could give rise to a charge of indecent exposure. Oh my. The English language can cause difficulties.

MagnusP
14th May 2012, 15:53
OFSO, I was confused too until I realised that MrsP would probably bomb me were I to suffer a failure in the underpant department. It all makes perfect sense.

rgbrock1
14th May 2012, 16:55
MagnusP:

That's an visual image we can do without. (You with failed underpants that is.)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TZ350
14th May 2012, 22:59
[quote] rgbrock1

Capture? No capture needed. Just kill 'em.


:D:D:D:D

Plus think of the $$$$ savings in trial costs ,etc .

Unless you need to interrogate them first............then kill 'em. :E

El Grifo
14th May 2012, 23:12
Come on racedo, rise to the occasion :}

MagnusP
15th May 2012, 08:16
Ah, RGB, the lair is open but the beast is asleep. :p

El Grifo
15th May 2012, 13:48
The media beast is certainly asleep. The story is all but dead and buried.

Had it been as presented originally or secondary, I would have expected more political capital to have been made !

Is someone embarrased, or is the story some kind of botched internal operation or what ?

El G.

rgbrock1
15th May 2012, 13:58
El Grifo:

I don't think it was a botched operation. I think someone gave a heads-up to the medja way, way before he/she was supposed to. I think the operation is still ongoing and the lid was slammed shut on it to protect assets on the ground.

If you looked at the news lately you'll note that the Sudanese Army
killed two dozen Al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula terrorists this past weekend.

Are the two connected? I believe so. More will be coming shortly.
Of that, I am certain.

El Grifo
15th May 2012, 14:30
A fair take on the situation rgb !

I will watch the space intently :ok:

I confess to have not heard about the Arabian Penisula affair, but really I do not hear much here.

Pprune is my main educator :ok:

rgbrock1
15th May 2012, 14:44
El Grifo,

My bad. It was not in Sudan that 2 dozen AQ terrorists were killed over the weekend but in Yemen, where 3 dozen AQ "militants" were erased.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yemen battles rage, 37 Qaeda militants reported killed
By Fawaz al-Haidari (AFP) Ė 1 day ago



ADEN ó Battles raged on Monday in Yemen's southern city of Zinjibar as the army intensified its drive to crush Al-Qaeda militants, with tribal sources reporting 37 jihadists killed in two days of fighting.
A government official said meanwhile that suspected Al-Qaeda fighters blew up a gas pipeline in southeast Yemen late on Sunday, in retaliation for the latest attacks on their positions.
"We can hear from Aden the sound of shelling in Zinjibar," said a resident in Yemen's main southern city, which is about a 30 minute drive from Abyan's restive provincial capital.
AFP could not directly reach sources in Zinjibar as telephone lines there were cut, but a tribal source coming from the city said that 21 jihadists had been killed since Sunday.
Another tribal source said 10 militants were killed in a Monday air raid on Al-Qaeda hideouts in the coastal Shaqra area.
Six others died in another raid on their positions in the outskirts of Loder, also in Abyan, a source from the Popular Resistance Committees battling Al-Qaeda militants alongside the army said.
AFP could not independently verify the tolls.
Yemeni forces on Saturday launched a multi-pronged assault aimed at recapturing Zinjibar, held by the jihadists for a year.
The battles against the militants were being carried out with "US logistical support," a Yemeni military official told AFP on Sunday, a day after US drones killed 16 suspected militants in two separate attacks east of the capital Sanaa, according to an updated toll posted by the news website of the defence ministry, 26Sep.net (http://26sep.net/).
The death toll includes two Saudis and an Egyptian.
According to the Yemeni official, speaking on condition of anonymity, 12 soldiers have also been killed since the all-out operation against Al-Qaeda was launched around Zinjibar.
Meanwhile, suspected Al-Qaeda militants responded to the assaults by blowing up a gas pipeline supplying Yemen's Balhaf export terminal in the Gulf of Aden, a government official said on Monday.
"A gas pipeline was blown up near Mayfaa" in Shabwa province in southeast Yemen late on Sunday, the official there said.
"Al-Qaeda blew up the pipeline in response to the raids that targeted it" over the past week.
The attack took place around 20 kilometres (12.4 miles) from the Al-Qaeda stronghold of Azzan in Shabwa.
Witnesses told AFP flames were seen flaring into the sky from the site of the explosion that took place around midnight, some 30 minutes after soldiers guarding the pipeline clashed with a group of gunmen.
The amount of damage to the pipeline was not immediately clear and it was not known to what extent supplies of gas, from a field in Marib province, were affected.
Attacks on Al-Qaeda by Yemeni forces with US backing have intensified in recent weeks.
Early last week, air strikes by US drones in eastern Yemen killed jihadist network leader Fahd al-Quso, wanted by Washington in connection with the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole in Aden harbour.
Quso's name figured on an FBI list of most wanted terrorists, along with a reward of up to $5 million for information leading to his arrest.
John Brennan, US President Barack Obama's top counter-terrorism aide held talks in Sanaa on Sunday with Yemeni President Abdrabuh Mansur Hadi.
Their discussions revolved around "combatting terrorism" and attempts by Yemen's army to crush the local branch of Al-Qaeda, state news agency Saba reported.
Al-Qaeda's branch in Yemen has exploited the decline in central government control that accompanied Arab Spring-inspired protests that eventually forced president Ali Abdullah Saleh to cede power in February.

El Grifo
15th May 2012, 15:04
The bearer of better news than that originally imparted, should never feel the need to apologise :ok:

The cat has clearly got racedo's tongue.

It would be interesting to hear his take on this refreshing piece of news !

El G.