BA Career Progression

[Knowledge]

Can anyone tell me an average (if there is such a thing) career path for a BA pilot coming out of the CEP program. I suppose you kick off as F/O on short haul but how long until you a) change to long haul and/or b) progress to Captain. Also is any of the above related to performance or is it entirely based on seniority (subject to exams etc)
Many Thanks

[airforcenone]

There are a few variations on the career theme with BA. As a CEP, you'll invariably start on a shorthaul fleet, either at LHR, LGW or the regions (BHX or MAN). You are type frozen for five years which means you can change base (subject to seniority) but not the aircraft type for that time. As things currently stand, you will be senior enough for a long haul FO position (744 or 777) after three or four years, although the company are not obliged to move you until your initial five year freeze ends.

For each type of aircraft, you're frozen for four years before you can bid off (subject always to seniority).

Again, as things currently stand, you would be senior enough for a command at EuroGatwick or Regional after perhaps eight years (subject to passing the command course). LHR commands take much longer, particularly for longhaul.

However, subject to seniority, the above pattern is infinitely variable depending on company requirements and individual preferences.

[You Aint Seen Me. Roit!]

Ok, I've got to ask.

Can somebody please explain the terms DEP/CEP and explain which one I am (Military pilot soon to hold CPL(A) frozen ATPL(A)
I feel that there may be some snorts and grunts at such a stupid question question being asked and I'm sure that I'm the only person here that does'nt know, but please explain.

[NewBloke]

CEP refers to the "Cadet Entry Pilot" scheme, which is where the airline (BA) pay for a selected student to undertake an integrated full-time course at a selected flight school. This way it's possible to be trained from zero hours to frozen ATPL (ab initio) before joining the airline as a FO, although I believe most have at least a few hours under their belt.

DEP refers to "Direct Entry Pilot" whereby you have already obtained the necessary qualifications/experience to sit in the right hand seat subject to BA's set requirements. You will be too experienced for the CEP scheme, however whether or not you are eligible for the DEP scheme yet I do not know - I do not know how many hours are required. Best bet is to try their website, or sit around and I'm sure someone will be a tad more helpful than myself !! I hope I've cleared things up a touch though...... Best of luck...

[Scottie]

DEP requirements are currently 1500 hours of which 500 hours must be in a jet > 25 tonnes.

Check out www.britishairwaysjobs.com (http://www.britishairwaysjobs.com) for more information.

[This message has been edited by Scottie (edited 01 June 2001).]

[flaps]

Latest I heard was that the initial 5 year freeze may reduce as BA are losing so many senior pilots so they need to progress the whole pilot body quicker. Might get you to long haul sooner although an ATPL is still required for lon haul.

Other rumour was that those with ATPL's will start as SFO's but on the FO pay scale and with FO seniority. A move aimed at recognising the experience they bring with them.

[Sick Squid]

Flaps, I can't see the 5 year "engagement" freeze reducing in the near future as it is entirely in BA's favour; they can essentially do what they will with you for the first five years. Believe me, if it suits the current plan they will grant early bids sometimes well within the initial 5 years. The B-side of this is that they can also direct you to other fleets/bases as they see fit.. this happened to some rather un-gruntled 744 pilots in the last couple of years, and is the subject of ongoing strife with them... fingers crossed lads. Haven't heard of it applied that way in recent years prior to that event.

Outside the 5 years they are fairly strict on the 4-year (previously 3 year) type freeze following conversion course, however if you are bidding for initial command, then subject to the "6 months continous operation on current type" requirement buried in the Annual Bid Document that will be waived. Currently just that is happening on the Airbus at LHR, my sources tell me.

The best advice is bid every year for what you want, not what you "think" you will get. Then, should the vacancies arise, all freezes have a habit of melting (mixed-metaphor alert!)

All the best,

£6

[Lucifer]

The bid package handbook suggests that you should bid for what you want even if you are within a freeze period, and certainly people have successfully bid to another fleet by this method. Indeed, it says it is not a hard and fast rule, although as Sick Squid says, the nominal period will probably not change.

[Harry Wragg]

Promotion to captain last year based on time in company:

B744 - 14 yrs

B777 - 13 yrs

A320 - 7 yrs

EOG - 4 yrs

Approx 1000 retirements in next 5 years.

[moggie]

Folks -

Whilst there is a theoretical 5 year freeze on changing types, that can be got round sometimes. My brother made it from 737 to 777 after about 3 1/2 years by applying for the slots! If there are not enough applicants with the 5 years behind them then you are in with a chance. The same goes for commands - little brother would be a 737 commander by now if he hadn´t chased 777 - contempories of his are getting shorthaul commands after about 5 years (these are all Cadet Entry Pilots, by the way).

[flaps]

£6 said,

"Believe me, if it suits the current plan they will grant early bids sometimes well within the initial 5 years"

This is what I meant in that they will be short on experience on the larger aircraft in a few years and will need to move people from SH to LH. I know they can direct you within the time of the engagement freeze but as always if there are pilots who wish to move then they get the chance first.