Low Blue Hydraulic Level - Wizz Air Excuse

[maillme]

Hi All,

Someone pointed me in the direction of this forum.

I've been having an email battle with Wizzair regarding compensation for a flight delay (5.5 hours which was changed from EIN departure to Cologne).

I contacted them stating my rights and that a technical problem is not always extraordinary circumstances.

I also advised them that as they changed the flight number, this could be seen as a cancelled flight.

They advised that the technical problem was "Low Blue Hydraulic level" and that this was extraordinary circumstances.

I did some simple research and replied saying this was a service / maintenance issue and that it wasn't extraordinary. They of course still maintain it is.

I also sent them a screen capture from the cologne airport website showing the change in flight number. They deny there was a change in flight number.

So, they are refusing to pay compensation.

I was just wondering if anyone here can give any insight to this....its not really about the money but more the principle that airlines can mess people around so much and still get away with it.....

thanks for any reply you can give,

Neil

[munster]

the airbus hydraulic system reservoirs can be replenished in just a few minutes, assuming you have an engineer with an adjustable spanner, can opener and a few cans of hydraulic oil!

[maillme]

Thanks Munster.

Do you have a reference to this type of procedure you could point me to online?

I just want wizz ot know that I'm not going to just accept their answer.....so if I can point them to the reference materials I am using, then maybe this will help......

I also intend to ask for the pilots log / paperwork showing the problem - which of course they wont give, but i'll ask all the same.

thanks again for your reply,
Neil

[TURIN]

If the hydraulic quantity was showing as low it begs the question why?

A leak perhaps?

The leak may have been somewhere quite difficult to access or on a componant that was not available locally, such as a hydraulic filter module. It could have just been an o ring or gasket that failed, but again if it was not stocked locally a delay of several hours while the part is sourced is not uncommon.

If it was low enough to cause the pump to cavitate it may have been necessary to change the pump also.

the airbus hydraulic system reservoirs can be replenished in just a few minutes, assuming you have an engineer with an adjustable spanner, can opener and a few cans of hydraulic oil!

Adjustable spanner? On aeroplanes? :(

[maillme]

Turin,

thanks for the reply.

Can you tell me if this would be deemed extraordinary?.........

I'm referring to the piece of text with regards to EU rights on delays/cancelations:

"Can an airline always rely on "technical difficulties" to justify a cancellation and refuse to pay compensation

The Court of Justice of the EU ruled on this issue in December 2008 in the case of Wallentin Herman v Alitalia where it was held that airlines may only refuse to pay compensation when a flight is cancelled due to technical problems if the problem stems from events which by their nature or origin are not inherent in the normal exercise of activity of the air carrier concerned and are beyond it's actual control"

thanks again,
Neil

[Beeline]

It was extraordinary by the fact it was abnormal and not the ordinary level expected on a serviceable aircraft. It was unplanned and unforeseen. By the extended down time I guess also that it was a more sinister problem.

The point has been highlighted already that any engineer worth there salt would check an abnormally high up-lift of a hydraulic system.

As for the flight number change, no idea.

Only metric adjustables are any good!!

[ampclamp]

Low blue sys hyd level is a bog easy fix (if it is just a routine top up). But.. it should NOT be something that should be found during turn around. Hyd levels are checked overnight and should not need topping up for quite some time in a good system . It should not take 5.5 hours either. I assume it was a 320. The blue sys can be a bit tricky getting a head of pressure but 5 hours tricky, no way under normal circumstances. The real circumstance may have been extraordinary but having to add some skydrol should take 5 minutes. So their claim maybe correct but the reason given , in isolation, is BS imho. Now if they really meant low sys pressure (not level) , that would be different again meaning a pump failure and could be described as extraordinary.

[ironchefflay]

unservicabilities like that are not extraordinary not even a pump failure is extraodinary! in my opinion at least these are things that could resonably be forseen as they do happen and as part of the aircraft, will happen.

extraordinary to me would be things like a lighting strike to a helicopter. that causes a lot of damage! for an airliner i would say driving a catering truck into a fuselage or steps clipping a wingtip are extraordinary!

[ampclamp]

pump failures happen, and to those in the job not extraordinary, but an airline may deem it so in the ticketing fineprint as it is not a routine item say like a blown landing light.

[yotty]

Might have been an indication problem, or even a low reservoir pressurization defect. If it had been a BA a/c we could probably delve into EWS and get an answer. Anyone here know who does the maint' for Wizzair?

[Terry McCassey]

low reservoir pressure will give you an ECAM

[Beeline]

Erm I'm usually not one to tow the company line but if BA or Whizz Air had an incling of inside tech information being passed over relating to a commercial situation/case they would have your guts for garters.

Objective answers are prob best.

[maillme]

Thank you everyone for your time / answers. It's much appreciated.

I will chance my arm and request proof of the pilots paperwork (or it's their word that I am expected to believe....right?).

thanks again,
Neil

[maillme]

I think the actual delay could have been because by the time they got another aircraft to the airport, the runway was closed.....?

[maillme]

Hi Fargoo,

thanks for the reply.

I think according to the EU regulation, I am entitled to compensation of EUR 250 based on the length of the delay and the distance of the flight.

Original flight was EIN to KTW.......which was Diverted from Cologne to KTW.

The EU regulation states that simply saying "It was a technical problem, sorry not our fault" isn't always allowed......it needs to be extra ordinary circumstances - so I was just wanting to know if this would be deemed extra ordinary or not, because so far - its whatever the airline says.........

thanks again for all your help with this,
Neil

[yotty]

Point taken Beeline ! I'm not trying to apportion blame, I'd just like to get to the bottom of what the defect really was. Having said that I do need to reach retirement with License / Pension intact and without a disciplinary! :ok:

[Fargoo]

Neil, thanks that's much clearer.

The UK CAA have an advice line which you can ring and a complaints procedure to follow if you don't get anywhere directly.

I still think the delay was acceptable given the problem and if these airlines had contingency in place for every possible situation then the price of the low cost tickets would rise far enough to put them out of business. That said, what they are saving in contingency is massive compared to paying out to you when things do go wrong!

Good luck, let us know how you get on with the CAA. Even if they can't help with this airline they should be able to pass you on to the relevant body that can.

Referring Your Complaint to the CAA | Resolving Travel Problems | Passengers (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=2211&pageid=12725)

[maillme]

Thanks Fargoo......

I do take your point on board about them going out of business etc however, they are granted a licence to operate on the basis they agree to the regulations.

That said, I've had at least 7 or 8 instances of this, similar circumstances and just ignored it - but now I just feel it's too much.......e.g. they always get to do what they want, when it suits (although of course maybe not in this case) but when my luggage is 1kilo over - well.......different story

I will keep you all updated,

thanks again for all your valuable help.
Neil

[Wirelock]

sorry mailme..was your flight diverted due to this event?

[TURIN]

I would say that anything other than a normal experience is extra ordinary. Hydraulic pumps fail but not regularly enough for it to be considered ordinary.

[maillme]

The flight was supposed to leave from EIN at around 7pm.

It is my understanding that by the time they could fly in another aircraft (due to this event) the runway would be closed.

So, we were driven by bus to Cologne.

Neil

[gr4techie]

I can see possible reasons for a delay

Things don't always go to plan.. rounded off fasteners on the panel, dropping a tool (loose article), u/s on fit components.

If the low oil level was caused by a leak and a componet was replaced. Wouldn't there be lengthy function tests and independant checks to be carried out?

[Beeline]

Straight Blue pump change with spares. 1 1/2 -2hrs plus functions. And before people start that is on the ramp in pouring rain and wind.

Swapping yellow to blue/blue to yellow will take a bit longer. Yellow pump can be dispatched u/s. Blue cannot.

Regards B

[stevef]

The line's a very lonely place to be sometimes.
Nothing quite like seeing a cabin-full of annoyed faces looking down at you when there's a tech delay. :uhoh:

[Wirelock]

i think it would help if you took a step back to look at this situation. What do wizz air gain by transporting you to CGN? they save the cost of putting a plane load of people in hotels for the night.
what do they lose? they have to pay another crew and fuel to fly an aircraft there to collect your flights pax. they also lose a home based a/c for the next day operation. a 5 figure loss for 1 AOG.
this is an extra ordinary event. it is not planned and certainly not welcomed by you or by the airline.
fixing a defect depends on having spares and qualified manpower at the AOG base. if this is not available, the airline will look for the best possible solution. in this case it was bussing you to CGN.
i agree with wizz in this instance...sorry!