10,000 bucks up front

[al_renko]

hi all,
spoke on the phone today with one of the durban flight schools,nice chap on the phone but looking for R10000 up front to complete my PPL Training,why do some schools require the the up front payment and other flight schools go with pay as you go method?any ways maybe i will look at virginia flight school instead,maybe they will want R20000!!! cheers,

[The Ancient Geek]

Yea right, old story.
if you pay up front what happens if the school goes titzup ?

There have been far too many victims of this one.

[al_renko]

hi there,
thanks for your response,so what i am saying is,I will maybe spend say R25000 to complete the course and will be happy to do so,but why would I pay R10000 up front when I don't have to?
for me the folks who are asking for R10K up front are throwing away the chance of R25K.
they are other training schools out there I have spoken with with the same policy,there is no logic in there thinking as far as my case goes,it is frustrating for me because by all accounts these are decent flight schools turning away a decent costumer,cheers,

[The Ancient Geek]

Simple rule :- never pay up front for anything.
There is a special word for people who pay up front, they are called victims. :ugh:

[al_renko]

:Dvictims I agree,someone's got to be giving them the R10K though,why doesn't someone in the R10K club come on here and explain the policy,because i am saying to you here and now I got R30K to give you but you ain't getting it up front!
My momma always said, "Life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get."

[mogas-82]

Never paying too much upfront is a good rule, but IMO R10000 is not that much to worry about if the school has an ok reputation. You should ask what this money is used for before coming to a conclusion. Maybe the R10000 are for registration (administrative expenses), ground school and especially insurance excess cover which usually amounts to about 500-1000 USD. So you shouldn't automatically dismiss someone asking for this kind of money. A scam would rather sound like "Give us $5000 now and get an all-expenses-paid PPL course"

[cavortingcheetah]

I would tend to agree with that. SAR10,000 is around $1,300 or £1,000.
If they scammed you out of that, you'd only have to sit outside the school over a weekend telling everyone who walked in what they'd done to you and you'd have achieved a reasonable revenge.
Ask for a detailed estimate for the deposit and see what they come up with.
You seem to be flailing around a little in your search for flight schools. Have you tried asking FTS or 43rd or FTC whether they require a deposit?

One further thing, the statement, 'but looking for R10000 up front to complete my PPL Training,' implies that the school wants the money up front to complete or finish the PPL training that you've already started. Surely you were talking of an initial deposit?

[Current Limiter]

I guess that is why you are phoning around - it means that you have a choice, so if you don't like the thought of giving them the cash up front then find a school that doesn't require it. Personally, it kind of makes sense to me to run an account, thereby making it simpler to reconcile instead of numbers of payments required everytime you do anything at the school. The other factor is that in South Africa at the moment there are too many bad payers and chancers, and the flight school margins are so tight that they can't afford even one non-payment. I have previously had experience with all three flight schools at Virginia, and can give you the recommendation that not one of them will take your cash without performing the duty.

Good luck with finishing your training.

[banton]

Trust your intuition. I have a friend who became a victim of such.

[FlexibleResponse]

I am looking to buy a training flight.

If that goes well, I'll buy another training flight.

And if that also goes well, I'll buy yet another.

But, if it doesn't go well or you cease to exist...I'll just take my money somewhere else...

[cavortingcheetah]

Then you must be prepared to be treated as a casual customer by the supplier.
It's the finished product, the well trained and airmanship wise private pilot, that completes the package. It's not very likely that a trainee would have the ability to evaluate 'what goes well' through the training stages is it now? That's why flight school curricula require evaluation flights from time to time with a Grade II or Grade I instructor.
So if you shop off the shelf you must expect to be treated as passing trade and you just might find yourself with the bargain basement instructors. Think of yourself as a plumber's apprentice sitting in the back of a bakkie. I think the poor chaps in blue overalls are called 'appies'? Until you've earned the respect of the master craftsman behind the wheel and been taught the profession, you'll never end up in the front seat.

[al_renko]

hi there,
thanks for your response(drivel,verbal diarrhea etc)"bargain basement instructors" flight schools aswell,so the only good instructors,flight schools are available after crossing there palms with silver!
anyone out there run a flight school? who don't take money up front,BREAKING NEWS=your pilots are all crap and your flight school is even worse.
so all you owners out there please come on and advise us all that this cannot be,please!!!!!

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Give it up. Become a lawyer like your mother wanted.

[mogas-82]

Of course you are absolutely right. There is for sure a market gap for a flight school that charges everyone by the hour they book, requiring no fees for administration, train you efficiently every time you come in while assigning a FI randomly and for sure requires no deposit like the other flight schools and all car rental companies do.So go ahead, please open this magical place which will suit every customer and spits out CPL holders competent enough to fly a C208 alone after 200 hours of training. I can´t possibly imagine how the other flight schools would withstand such competition.

p.S. it´s called sarcasm - if you are too smart to know what that means, look it up in a dictionary!

[cavortingcheetah]

Generally speaking it's like instrument flying isn't it? It's an attitude problem.
Specifically speaking to pay up front for a PPL course would be ill advised unless you were getting a serious discount from a serious flight school for doing so.
It might seem fair to some to keep one lesson in the pot, so to speak, if only to ensure that the flight school and your dedicated instructor were assured of your good intentions and staying power? It at least acts as some form of commitment that you won't be a no show.

[darkroomsource]

I really don't get this at all...
R10,000 is only about 5 hours (OK, maybe 7) of instruction and plane rental in advance.
Most places I've ever been will give you a X% discount if you give them a deposit of somewhere around 10 hours 'block' time payment in advance.
Honestly, if 10,000 Rand is too much for you to pay in advance, or you're really that worried that they'll 'walk off with it' - You can't afford to be a pilot...

[al_renko]

well if it not a lot a cash to you,why don't you wire me the $10000?

[Solid Rust Twotter]

2/10 for observation. He said Rand.

Post your bank account details including passwords, ID and passport numbers and your thumb print, and some friendly folks from West Africa will make sure it gets to you.

[FlexibleResponse]

Obviously there is some middle ground whereby a student pays for more than for one flight but pays less than for a full course of training.

As cavortingcheetah suggests, this would give a flying school some level of commitment and allow flexibility in forward planning, but at the same time would provide at least some level of protection for the student from being fleeced by scam artists or legitimate "flying schools" that go into bankruptcy.

Perhaps 5 hour training blocks or event based blocks?

Caveat emptor...as always! :)

[DaFly]

Well, let's see. You want to become a pilot. You need to go to a flight school. They want money up front. You are upset...

Your neighbour's kid wants to become a doctor. He need's to go and study at an university. They want money up front. That's normal... :ugh:

I don't know of any college, university or other educational institution, that doesn't want money up front. :8