John holland incident?

[ASY68]

Hi guys,

Can anyone confirm or deny that there was an incident at JHAS MEL where 3 aircraft have been written off due to fire retardant foam?

Regards,

[falconx]

i hear there keeping the cabins for crew training

[dartman2]

What type...

[A320skoda]

Not true...

[ASY68]

Apparently 2x A320, 1x A330

[londoneasyjetboi]

Wont mention airlines here, but yes, 2x a320 and one a330 caught in the AFFF discharge. 3 spare engines belonging to 2 carriers are written off, plus one still attached to the 330. Hope there insurance doesn't pay out due to their negligence and we can a new MRO in this country. LH Technik or SIAEC pls!

[Capt Claret]

I'm curious. How does fire retardant foam cause airframes & engines to be written off?

[A320skoda]

No........

[1a sound asleep]

Aqueous film forming foams frequently contain hydrocarbon-based surfactant such as sodium alkyl sulfate, and fluorosurfactant — such as fluorotelomers, perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA), or perfluorooctanesulfonic ACID (PFOS).

[The Bungeyed Bandit]

Just saying NO and NOT TRUE would be considered a denial A320skoda but a bit more info would be appreciated.

[clark y]

Aircraft not written off but lots of bits changed.

[Connaught]

seen it happen elsewhere and if you get in there and clean it all out fast enough it shouldn't be a problem, especially when you factor in the cost of the equipment you are talking about; besides if that was the case ie: writting equipent off if there is an activation of the fire suppression system, then why install it at all??? let it burn, end result is the same - equipement written off anyways and your not up for the cost to install an expensive fire suppression system

was old 737's there emergency foam canon switch was in very close proximity to the 3 phase switch, poor guy thought he was turning the power cart on:} (he found a fault with the system though, only 2 of the 4 canons activated)

[ASY68]

To confirm, 2 Aircraft were rated at Cat 3C damage, while one was barely a scratch.

On another note, VHXFC was damaged today when its wing tip scraped above the cockpit window of a JQ A330 during a tow from JH to F12.

[psycho joe]

Does that mean that both of Virgin's brand new A-330's that are yet to do a commercial flight, are grounded with damage?

That's not a phone call that I'd want to make. :uhoh:

[Night Hawk]

Which JQ 330 was hit??? Plus how bad was it??

[falconx]

Assessors and engineers consulted, in short a new wing

[SRM]

Another JHAS quality product.

[BPA]

A new wing:ugh: how fast were they going during the tow?

[falconx]

Unfortunately they can't replace the damaged bit so it's a new wing, love to see what that's worth

[blueloo]

We heard this sort of rumour with the Nancy Bird. that proved to be utter rubbish.

Anyway sounds like a bit of masking tape will fix it.

[t_cas]

VA A330 wing damage possibly minor. JQ not so minor.

[ASY68]

When I saw it, it looked fine however plenty of engineers hanging about and assessors flown in...

[ASY68]

According to JH this morning, the JQ(EBB) will polish out however there are bigger concerns about XFC

[PoppaJo]

XFC or D??

[BPA]

Newspaper reports today say parts are being flown out to repair XFC.

[PoppaJo]

Ta.............

[Night Hawk]

Hmmm .......polish out!! :hmm: Sounds like the cheap option!!! A few flight crew will look at that a bit harder when it's back online..:eek:

[Jabawocky]

Where are the pics?:8

[ASY68]

Was there any mention of JHAS towing te aircraft? No, Menzies was, however there is a dispute as to whose fault it actually is...and if you are sure about the XFC incident, how about you set the story straight?

[wondrousbitofrough]

Was there any mention of JHAS towing te aircraft?

No but this is in a thread titled "John Holland Incident". I hate to put 2 and 2 together but by its inclusion in this thread it suggests that John Holland was fully or at least partly responsible for the damage...

[IAW]

Towing incidents can have many factors.

Was the stationary aircraft parked in the correct spot? Was the area clearly marked with lead in lines, and wingtip clearance lines?

Was there a wing walker? Did he have proper means to communicate to the tug driver? Were the wing walkers employed by a different company, and therefore may have had different set of signals to communicate to the driver with?

Speaking of the tug driver, was he hooked up forwards or backwards? This can make a big difference for situational awareness and visibility. Some companies SOPs state that tugs are always to be hooked up facing the aircraft under tow when towing near hangars / other aircraft / tight parking spots. Does the company in question have such rules?

Was there someone riding brakes? (News report said there was nobody on board but I assume they mean passengers) Could the wingtip in question be seen from the A330 cockpit, and if so could they have prevented the incident if they were watching?

[stgeorge2035]

News.com.au are reporting that a brand new Virgin A330 whilst being towed hit a Jetstar aircraft. Anyone know any details?


Virgin Australia's new A330s collide while under tow on runway ahead of official launch | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/virgin-australias-new-a330s-collide-while-under-tow-on-runway-ahead-of-tuesdays-official-launch/story-e6frfq80-1226352991387)


Cheers

[ASY68]

There is no correct position or any lines.

No wing walkers.

Nose away from aircraft, and any towing with JHAS has a brake rider and someone on headset in the tug.

[another superlame]

I find it funny that QF/JQ are happy to send their aircraft to other facilities where the procedures for things like towing or tank entry have lower procedural standards than their own base.

So if JHAS/Menzies don't use wing walkers or have tow lines and QF/JQ allowed their aircraft to be maintained there, then it is also a failure of QF/JQ management for not performing the necessary risk assessments prior to sending the work to the lowest bidder.

And this isn't the first time Virgin aircraft have had issues whilst under going maintenance at JHAS. A few years ago they were one more incident away from losing the Virgin work. I wonder if they have now crossed that line.

[IsDon]

The wing tip of the aircraft was slightly damaged, as was the cone top of the Jetstar aircraft, also an A330.

Another piece of masterful journalism.

What exactly is a "cone top"? :rolleyes:

[SRM]

Irrespective of who was to blame for this accident, I was under the impression the MRO must have procedures inplace for ground handling the operators aircraft .
If this is correct, were procedures being followed ?

[nitpicker330]

New Winglet is being attached, that's all.

Big deal, move along!!

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

If this is correct, were procedures being followed ?

The Ground handler was Menzies.

They didn't even supply enough staff for the tow.

As you would expect, there were no wing walkers.

[ConcernedLAME]

Correct Fed Sec

[Longbow25]

The new winglet for Virgin is fine but the Jetstar aircraft didn't fair so well.:\:D

[ernestkgann]

I guess some times 'affordable safety' has a negative commercial outcome.

[Wellwellwell]

Great, no investigation is complete and already people are blaming a third party with probably a lowly paid driver with little formal driving, towing training, or real understanding of the responsibility at hand.

Would be interesting to know if JH lames were on the headset and riding brakes....couldn't be could it

[Capn Bloggs]

when you factor in the cost of the equipment you are talking about; besides if that was the case ie: writting equipent off if there is an activation of the fire suppression system, then why install it at all??? let it burn, end result is the same - equipement written off anyways and your not up for the cost to install an expensive fire suppression system
Don't worry about the poor souls on board that will also be written off. :}

[porch monkey]

Don't think he's referring to on board systems there Bloggsey......

[ASY68]

Wellwellwell, how about you actually go back and re-read the thread. Questions have been answered, and I personally know tow drivers at Menzies are well trained(disclaimer, I don't work for Menzies)

[genxfrog]

THE Federal Court has imposed the maximum civil penalty of $242,000 on a Leighton Holdings company over the death of a worker in Western Australia's Pilbara region. Wayne Moore, 45, an employee of John Holland Pty Ltd, died after he stepped onto an unsecured sheet of grid mesh and fell 10 metres to the floor below at BHP Billiton's Mt Whaleback mine at Newman on March 19, 2009.
Comcare, the federal work health and safety regulator, prosecuted John Holland over his death.
The Federal Court last week ruled John Holland had breached federal work health and safety laws by failing to take all reasonably practicable steps to protect the health and safety of its workers.
The court imposed a fine of $242,000 on John Holland, the maximum civil penalty upon a company for a breach of the general duty of care requirements under the Commonwealth OHS Act.
In addition to the prosecution, Comcare insisted on an enforceable undertaking from John Holland and John Holland Group Pty Ltd, requiring them to implement better safety practices in their operations across Australia.
They are also required to share these improvements with the construction industry, including through the Federal Safety Commissioner.
Comcare Regulatory Services General Manager Neil Quarmby said in a statement today the court decision sent a message to employers about the serious consequences of not meeting their legal obligations to workers.
He said had the death occurred after new work health and safety laws came into force on January 1 this year, the penalties would have been much higher.
Mr Quarmby said Comcare inspectors found there had been two incidents involving unsecured grid mesh at the Mt Whaleback facility in the weeks leading up to Mr Moore's death.
In a statement today, a John Holland spokesman said the company deeply regretted the incident that led to the death of Mr Moore.
"We have fully cooperated with Comcare throughout the investigation process and accept the penalties handed down by the Federal Court.
"We continue to focus on improving our safety culture and performance so that these tragic incidents can be prevented in future," the spokesman said.
John Holland is a wholly-owned Leighton Holdings subsidiary.