EK Profit Announcement

[FFFrentit]

So, here we are at the end of April, and have not heard a peep about EK's last year's profit / performance.

Isn't the announcement traditionally made before the end of April? Possibly a bit more time is required to cook the books and come up with creative stories for the masses.

Not that I expect to see one fil / cent of profit share - just interested in hearing the excuses.

Any rumours........................?

[Saltaire]

Expect it at the end of next week. My guess in the 10th...my money is on about 2 weeks. More interested in the increment and pay review though.

Cheers

[White Knight]

Usually about 10th May... But very quiet so far... Usually there's also some sort of build-up:eek:

[EK380]

Don't you worry... there will be NO bonus, believe me!

[glofish]

I would guess 4 weeks, not to give less than the noisy neighbor down south and not to lose face.

The rest goes into glue and excess fuel for the dugong.:E

[etops777]

I bet the announcement will come right after SQs announcement.

[helen-damnation]

When do SQ announce?

[desertcamel]

2-4 weeks

+3% increment

+2% gratuity due to performance

+5 Aed on productivity

No increase educ allowance
No increase in housing allowance

Increase from 92 hrs to 95 hrs before overtime.

Dispensation for minimum 7 days-off per month

Delayed A380s

cancellations of A350s

more 777's

Profit target $16.8B

Profit earned $16.8B

How bad could it be ??? tomorrow is just another day :E

just guessing of course.....

[alwayzinit]

My personal view is that it is irrelevant what has been awarded elsewhere. Put Qatar and the one nobody can talk about together and you get one of the EK fleets.
With the new "no cost" ad campaign to pay for.....sorry invest in..Term 3a etc I see a big fat nowt coming our way.
Hello Tomorrow? more like "Gawd is it tommorrow already?":{
Mr Exhausted of this parish.

[Saltaire]

Not looking good; huge 380 issues, market uncertainties, high fuel prices and huge marketing expenses…. i'm starting to think nada.

[atiuta]

Given the 20% reduction in BKK allowances, the 2013 bonus is looking even better.

whittle, chip, erode

...but we never joined for the allowances.

[BenCartwright]

...it's never good to have too much money burning in your pocket in BKK...;)

My guess is 15 minutes of profit share at best... (still hope for 2 weeks and 3% though :sad: )

[Jolly Foreigner]

Don't really see that there has been any delay in any announcement, so lets wait and see. Historically the 'state of the union' speech is made around the 10th May (2011 - 10 May, 2010 - 12 May), so maybe we'll have a better idea in a weeks time.

Can't really see why people are getting hyped over what will be very little at the end of the day.

[Wizofoz]

sitting,

- Last years announcement came earlier than the year before

- The target was announced as a dollar sum as it has been every year bar one. One year in the company's history, it did not announce a target, but gave us a bonus anyway.

- Do you think EK is "Making Up" the price of Fuel or the weak Global economy?

- The profit announcement has a lot more impact than just the bonus. The companies ability to raise finance has much to do with it's profitability. You realize that most of the rest of the industry accuses EK of OVER stating it's profitability?

- How is their objection to subsidies relevant to any of this? I think they are a bit dishonest there- they are subsidized by the fact they can offer tax-free salaries- but that fact increases profit, not reduces it.

For what it's worth, I'm not expecting a bonus. A target was set (One that was to ambitious) and not reached. There was no way we were going to make as much money this year as last as our trading situation was simply not as good.

Surly a financial expert such as yourself could see that.

[Wizofoz]

Sit,

Just going to pick up on a couple of points, as mostly you have replied very sensibly.

BUT-

I don't understand your message there, sorry. Isn't the target supposed to reflect reality? What exactly was the target?



The Company announced an annual target along with the profit announcement last year, as they have done every year except one. It basically set the same profit target this year as was achieved last year. The actual figure is available on the Employee portal. They may have thought it reality at the time, circumstances have seen to it otherwise.

In essence, you are claiming that EK exaggerates their profits to get financing, while at the same time understating profits, in order to limit the 'profit share' for it's employees. If indeed you are correct, then you are describing a situation worse than I am.


Erm..this makes no sense. I am saying that you think they underestimate as it effects your profit share, while competitors think they over estimate as it makes those competitor feel better about not making as big profits.

I have no inside knowledge as to the truth but, to be honest, can't see why the Company, and more especially it's Auditors, would be motivated to announce anything but the truth.

But I know when I am being screwed

What evidence to you have of this?

[etops777]

Sittingdly does have lots of valid points. He may have been posting mainly negative remarks but majority are true facts. Keep everything in perspective..It may be good to some but not enough for many..

[trimotor]

What sort of sycophant would you like me to be sir?

[Sheikh-It-Easy]

"No profit share.
No pay rise
No increment."
92 hours to remain
Quoting 777 CP.

[HighLow]

watching this thread with great interest, currently in Europe, contemplating a move to the ME, it will be interesting what the upcoming announcement will be.

Sheikh-It-Easy,
may I ask,
since you have quoted the 777 CP at Emirates,
just exactly where and when was this said....

my understanding is no official announcement has been made at this stage..

[skyvan]

Probable announcement will be Thursday, according to HR input at latest wash-up.

EK did not reach the profit target for the last year, according to a Gulfnews article on the Arabian Travel Market last week, so I presume that 0% of profit share is a realistic number to work on.

Quote from Thierry Antinori:"The fuel price last fiscal was very high for Emirates. It was an increase of our fuel bill by $1.6 billion. It directly impacted the bottomline of the company, which means that our profit will be down for the financial year ended March 31 in comparison with the record year 2010-2011," he said.

But no increment and no salary increase during a year when reasonable profit was shown would be contary to the desire to be the "Employer of Choice in the ME".

So lets just wait for a couple of weeks, all will be revealed in time.

[aezorro]

last February the airline which we cannot discuss announced their profits... :ok: and i think their employees are partying.. :p

it was posted in the website of a local newspaper.. lol

cross fingers there will be "hello good news tomorrow"...

[etops777]

Profits for SQ drops by 70% but still managed to made a profits of $336 millions. Let's see what will EK be.

[dogleg]

Or CX... Who were not happy about their 2011 results and still made $710 million USD (down 61% from 2010).

[Jetaim]

14 million USD..my butcher makes probably more money :)..what should they be partying about?

[aezorro]

it means that despite rising fuel costs etc.. they gained profits..

[boeingdream787]

SQ bonus just announced. 5 weeks. So now the EK bonus should also be announced. Say about 0.5 weeks.....:cool:

[etops777]

It's slightly over 5 weeks while the sister airline will be paid around 10 weeks due to a different formula...let's see what EK does.

[boocs]

The CX Group of employees received.... 1 day profit share. No that is not a misprint.

b.

[desertcamel]

SHJ based AA = 3 weeks....

[Bunktime]

Yes etops. Its about there. But i thought they were projecting better profits. Quite surprising. Did u attend the meeting.
CX--1 DAY.....??!

[Cloud Bunny]

So it would seem that Sheikh-It-Easy was spot on with his post. :{:{:{

[YYZ]

Announced... Zero :{

[my salami]

Just out...No profit share...
Standby for pay review...

[Cloud Bunny]

Standby for pay review...

Judging by the tone of the memo I fear that'll it be stand by for pay freeze. Would be very dissapointing though considering still massive profits.

[White Knight]

Would be very dissapointing though considering still massive profits.

Seconded regarding Increment and Raise...

[Seat99k]

Profit $629,000,000. Our share 0.

[aezorro]

:{ hello zero tomorrow

[maligno]

WHAT
WHAT'S NEXT???

-No Bonus
-NEW RULE of 5 days OFF string. why that would be?
-30 days per year leave (i guess contract says 42)
-allowances reduced outstations

WHATS NEXT GUYS....????

CSA and SCOOT are interviewing for those interested...

can we go with only 5 days OFF string??? ....:=

Keep Discovering

[Oblaaspop]

Out of interest, was anyone actually expecting a bonus??????:ugh:

You all sound surprised.... why?? There was no way we were ever gonna reach the set target this year, so therefore no bonus! Simple!!!!

Not expecting a pay rise either but I will however be very p1ssed off if there is no increment:mad:

[Eric Carr]

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time they didn't pay a bonus?

[captainsmiffy]

When will they ever learn that there is an obvious link between crew morale and the bottom line......?!!!

[Cloud Bunny]

Oblaaspop not in the slightest bit surprised that there is no bonus. I think the last message from the Chairman regarding the financial results forecast spelled out very clearly that there would be no profit share, although this wasn't stated directly.
However, we have still made a bumper profit (in very tough conditions) and so, like you I would be very annoyed (to put it lightly) if there is no increment or indeed no payrise for those already here. Facing large recruitment requirements I think they would be daft not to be seen to offer nothing when we are still making a shed load of cash. It's a massive massive decision to move your family over here (as we all know) and it takes very little for a decision to be reached not to come.

[captainsmiffy]

When is the pay review due?

[Cloud Bunny]

Ex A380 I was referring to the memo that was published PRIOR to the one we just received. The one where they issued a forecast. I fail to remember when it was released, January/February?? Can't remember. But it was a clear indication that there would be no profit share come May.

[gardenshed]

What you have to remember it's us naughty pilots, we have all been using too much fuel !!
Company policy is to commit to DXB no matter what time of day or night/ traffic conditions, and then when you divert they'll be onto to you for not taking enough.
And lets not go there when dispatch load up the gas, in response to the knee jerk reaction from upstairs when the birds are scattered to the four winds when Dxb goes pear shaped.

[kneebrace]

Sandhound:

The management swaps figures from the airlines profit to DNATA. All to save money. And now with this trick they proofed the target was not reached.

Umm, the profit is for Emirates Group, which includes the airline and DNATA, among others. It doesn't matter which entity shows the profit.

Don’t think everyone is soooo stupid!

Ya, you showed them :D

[Oblaaspop]

Get some perspective Sandhound.... Did you feel 'cheated' when you got 14 weeks bonus last year?? Thought not!

Also a profit of $600m against a turnover of $18bn is actually a pretty poor show and would wreak investor mayhem with a poor PE ratio on a stock exchange (if it were listed)!

So while to you and I $600m sounds like a lot of money, in reality it's c0ck all and frankly quite worrying!!

[CAYNINE]

We're all disappointed but to be honest I'm not surprised. The target was always a mile above what was even expected, EK owns the train set.

As an observation though, with pax numbers around 34 million, you would think even a small increase in fares would be appropriate....

Should be interesting to see if TCAS turns up to any washups now.

[Kamelchaser]

I'm just pleased EK spent 200 million USD on the "hello tomorrow" campaign to convince me that I am proud to work for Emirates. Otherwise, I may have been slightly displeased with not receiving some form of thanks for the extra effort I have put in during the last 12 months.

[apron]

Down route without fob so can't see the memo. Was there any mention of when we will know about a pay rise if there is to be one? :bored:

[pilotday]

I'm with Sandhound...I bet mngt got a nice bonus this year by showing lies *cough* i mean statistics to his highness. hello governor, look how much money I saved you, give me bonus, give me give me

couple notes...

1. Emirates is actually welcoming of these economic conditions because airlines such as Air France, Lufthansa, etc are hurting MORE than EK. EK weathers the storm and gains more routes, gate space as others shrink. EK wants a global monopoly and no competition and pure pricing power.

2. Our fuel bill has more than doubled in two years, and now represents 40.2 per cent of our total costs. Last year, we spent an additional Dhs7.5 billion (US$2 billion) on our fuel bill - 79% or Dhs5.9 billion directly related to higher fuel prices compared to the previous year. If fuel prices had held steady, our Group profit could have touched a record Dhs8.2 billion!

Be suspicious of these words. Did the fuel bill double in terms of percentage or in terms of real dirhams? Of course you are going to spend more money on fuel when you add 3 new Jets to the fleet a month.

3. Reading the last Safar, they are really beating the "we have no unfair advantages, its the people and service that make us great" drum. In these testing times for other airlines, nothing is worse than showing absolutely brilliant earnings. Its harder for Lufthansa to cry foul when EK is crying too.

In conclusion, lies, damn lies and statistics. No one really knows what the REAL books say.

[Oblaaspop]

So sandy, are you saying that the figures are fabricated?? If so please show your evidence!

You state that you can't understand how DNATA made a massive increase in profits... Is this because you are a thick moron or did you miss the bit about DNATA buying several large companies who would also have turned a profit this last year?

I note you haven't answered my question about how cheated you felt with the 14 weeks last year.... what a surprise!

Like I said, anyone with a brain larger than that of plankton or pond life would have figured out that no bonus was coming our way this year.... now I'll tell you that I am not cabin crew so please do me the honour of telling me whether you are plankton or pond life!!:E

Chose your battles wisely my friend

[pilotday]

Oblaaspop So sandy, are you saying that the figures are fabricated?? If so please show your evidence!

You state that you can't understand how DNATA made a massive increase in profits... Is this because you are a thick moron or did you miss the bit about DNATA buying several large companies who would also have turned a profit this last year?

I note you haven't answered my question about how cheated you felt with the 14 weeks last year.... what a surprise!

Like I said, anyone with a brain larger than that of plankton or pond life would have figured out that no bonus was coming our way this year.... now I'll tell you that I am not cabin crew so please do me the honour of telling me whether you are plankton or pond life!!

Chose your battles wisely my friend

chill....I think everyone was expecting at least 2 weeks to save face

[xbleedstart]

Totally agree with Sandhound.
The 14 weeks last year was a slap in the face as 8 weeks of that was to recoup the productivity pay EK and TCAS stole from me!

What a total let down.
We are all Jeff Sweeney taking another fast ball to the berrys

[apron]

Maybe I missed something but did we not get 12 weeks last year? Anonymity with opinions is a easy thing....but opinions are like ar@e holes....everyone has one! :8 . Divide and rule the workforce is in full swing here I'd say :yuk:

[MR8]

Sandhound,

I think you are quite rude to our colleague. Especially since he is right:

The profit share is indeed for the Emirates group, which includes SkyCargo and Dnata. So if Dnata makes more profit, that would only benefit us.

So before you start accusing me of low IQ etc.. I am not happy with how the profit share works, but this has (at least this year) nothing to do with unrealistic figures. It has all to do with the greed of the owners and setting the threshold for the profit share at an unrealistic level.

I also agree with the comment that the actual profit compared to the revenue is at an alarming level. This indicates to me that our cost cutting hasn't nearly ended and we can all expect further increases in productivity (days off on layovers comes to mind), especially on the main fleet where a mix of short and long haul flying can be optimized by the company.

I also don't expect a pay rise: we are already offering one of the better packages in the industry and our pools for FO and DEC positions are back at a good level with lots of experienced guys wanting to join.

Again, not the news I want to hear, but you have to be a realist. We are treated by this management as a commodity, so its all about supply and demand, and the supply of experienced pilots is not a huge problem now, so they can keep the 'buying' price for these pilots as low as possible.. Simple economics, and a problem of the industry as a whole, not only Emirates...

MR8

[Yarra]

Sandhound

"On top of it they will never open the books to us, will they"

Well yes, they do and audited by PWC. The annual report contains the detail.

[Trader]

I think most pilots can accept the lack of profit share this year. It WAS a tough year and we didn't meet the target.

What we can't accept is the continuing degredation of our conditions by flt ops management.

Why do they limit the number of days off in a row, why do they continue to roster us for 6 day block immediately preceeding leave, why do they block 5 days of leave in a month and still fly us 92 hours, why do they limit the swaps to even more stringent rules then regular rostering (but break their own rules when it suits them), why do they keep LOWERING our per diems, put us in hotels (ie. Dallas) where we can't get meals 24 hours a day........over an over and over again.

EK and Flt Ops could quite easily get the pilots onside (well, 90% anyway because 10% will always bitch and moan regardless) by working to make crew lives better with a number of costless or near costless initiatives. Start with correcting the above mentioned items.

The rostering stuff is FREE!!!!! Our rostering people are out of control, working to make life easy for themselves with no regard for the crew OR other management. Look at how they scupper training and ground instruction with their hopeless rules forcing VP's to intervene to get the courses they want.

Want an even better example. Why can't cabin crew get what they want in their top bid months?? You have a shortage of cabin crew because they tire of the conditions. Most will happily accept the crappy night turns if they know that in their top bids they will get some of the better flying. Instead you literally force them out the door.


I can live without the bonus since we didn't make the target. But PLEASE fix the other issues and maybe you will get us back on your side! But flying 90 plus hours a month, month after month and watching the conditions get worse, for NO reason, only leads to unhappy crew and, regardless of what you believe with respect to moral etc, it costs the company money!

Righting some of the conditions above (and the others you know about) cost almost nothing especially in comparison to the savings you achieve when crew work with you.

[BigGeordie]

To me the issue is not with the profit figures being massaged or even made up completely. I would like to know how they come up with the target every year as it just seems like a random number. Is it actually calculated at all or do they just think of a number and double it?:confused:

[FlyEmirates777]

Maybe Tomorrow...

[Gillegan]

To me the issue is not with the profit figures being massaged or even made up completely. I would like to know how they come up with the target every year as it just seems like a random number. Is it actually calculated at all or do they just think of a number and double it?


In years past, they actually looked at the flying in the coming year, calculated the projected yields and costs and came up with an expected number for the profit. They then increased that number somewhat (if I remember correctly) and that was the magic number for the profit share. The last few years it seems the target was simply the previous years profit.

[apron]

Well the company have authorized our 3% increment!.... Yehaw. Effective from may tho? Surely this should be from 1st April?

[Oblaaspop]

Ooops my bad, it was 12 weeks last year.... just checked! What a 'kin rip off eh?

Blind loyalty sandy? NO! A modicum of common sense and ability to realise how ANY business works and makes money? Yes!

I take back my comment about you being pond life as I have actually seen more intelligent creatures than you lying upside down motionless at the bottom of a pond!

I think it's a bit rich questioning my IQ when you can't even put forward a logical argument to support your comments.... I'll ask again what PROOF do you have that you are being cheated, robbed and lied to about this years results. Do you think oil prices are actually $9 a barrel and the world economy is experiencing it's largest and longest ever boom or something?

Wake up AND grow up!

[givemewings]

I don't think most of us expected a proft share; however I am sure you'll agree that many of us thought that as a gensturethe company *might* have given a week or two as a 'thanks'... watch the resignations roll in, especially from the CC who were considering leaving but just might have been persuaded to stay by a bit of recognition from their 'dear leaders'....

Management 101 suggests that if you appreciate and engage your workforce then they will give back even more in monetary value than what you 'spend' on them- whether that be time or money. It doesn't even have to be a monetary gesture. Clearly they kind of miss this point. One only has to watch the completely crappy attitude of some of the crew onboard (to each other and to passengers) to see where they have failed to do this. They just don't get that all they had to do was to say, look, no proft share- but as a small token hey, here's a week or two- they'd probably have dramatically improved the morale of a good chunk of the CC- arguably the biggest customer facing section of the workforce and definitely the biggest influencer on the customer.

Now watch what happens, especially since they will be forcing all the A380 fleeted crew to cross-qualify on the 777....! Hello resignations...

[jumbo1]

The standard method for calculating the target is they take the actual income for a financial year and add 20%. It is based on what is actually achieved not what the target was. Ie Target for year X is $1 Billion. If actual achieved is $1.2 Billion then the next years target is $1.2 billion +20%.
That is how it used to be calculated, not sure what is actually happening these days - haven't bothered to do the sums...

[Oblaaspop]

LR3 makes very valid points chaps.... Those of us with IQ's greater than 3 (sadly that rules you out sandy old chap), actually don't give a toss about profit shares!!

What is important is the package keeping pace with the cost of living and of course lifestyle.

My guess is that 99% of us pilots came from airlines that didn't give profit shares anyway (probably because they never made a profit), so what's the big deal?

Give me a decent pay rise which keeps me in the lifestyle I have become used to every year with a decent roster and I'll be a happy camper! To the rest of the w@nk stains whinging on about no profit share etc... I'll say it again, chose your battles wisely: this aint one of them!:ugh:

[Sheikh-It-Easy]

No one is resigning. I just love guys with these idle threats, "watch the resignations flow in," they say. Where would they go? No where! Not a lot of options out there so lets just keep it real and go fly the jets.

Even if you do resign, they have DECs that'll go straight into training, waiting inline.

12 weeks, 14 weeks, 2 weeks. Whatever! We didn't get a bonus, boo Hoo Hoo! Stop your whining and get back to work.

People whine when we got 14 weeks and still whine when we get nothing. Some Of you are never happy. The bonus is theirs to give and the rules are documented, no one was cheated.

Advertising is essential for a company's market share and without it we are lost in a very competitive market. Think of it as an investment that will pay off in the future. We spend money to make money. $200 million is money well spent regardless of the slogans effect. The main thing is the customer will see, "Emirates". It appeals to the emotions and if it looks good and sounds good, they go fly Emirates.

Maybe we'll get one next year, maybe not, but for those of you who are motivated by dollars, i say this to you: You will never be satisfied.

Now let's go fly jets with company fuel if the weather is fine and destination has 2 runways. Heck, I'll commit on the bus on my way to work. Of even while having my muesli for breakfast at the hotel.

So let's all just Sheikh-it-easy!

[Alconguin Crusader]

Emirates is not audited by the Big 5 Accounting firms or their standards and hence will never go public for that reason alone. Having said that no one has seen their books and whatever they publish is whatever they want you to see. It is not official and can not even be presented in a court of law.
As I said last year 12 weeks bonus last year was great if that is what we were due. It was pretty obvious that we were shorted or rob about 8 weeks so at the very least we should have received 8 weeks this year to make up for last year's theifery. We all know where we live though.

[White Knight]

No one is resigning. I just love guys with these idle threats, "watch the resignations flow in," they say

I think that was mainly a reference to CC...

Emirates is not audited by the Big 5 Accounting firms or their standards and hence will never go public for that reason alone

So PWC isn't one of the world's Big 5 accountants? I always thought PWC were above board. But what do I know - I'm just a sharp-end operator:p

Half of you lot here on the forums no doubt wear tin-foil on your heads, so deep are these apparent conspiracy theories:{:{:{

[perkin1]

I'll tell you what, the cabin crew that have somewhere to go back to will be resigning like crazy... The only ones that won't are the ones that are stuck here for whatever reason.. Why would they want to stay?
- being forced to live out in the middle of nowhere when they were promised something different (szr)
- 120 flying hour rosters, while other airlines still give theirs 60-70hrs..
- less than minimum layovers (24hr JFK layover for a 14.5th flIght wtf?)
- flawed bidding and swapping systems.
- the company is promoting the culture of backstabbing and reporting, this is killing the morale..
- staff travel limitations: no jumpseats or upgrades.. Ever!
- at the end of the day the pay is not enough, not for westerners anyway.

The list goes on..

[BYMONEK]

Perkin 1

Good points, agree with all of them. This isn't the same Company it was 8 years ago. However fancy the advertertising may be or whatever slogan has been thought up by overpaid and overrated marketing gurus, if you build up your 'customers' expectations, the reality will be a let down by tired and demotivated cabin crew. Happy crew = happy passengers! Hardly rocket science.

LR3

Maybe i've misread your post but STATCOM will have taken into account the 20 minutes Desdi holding or whatever the statistical holding time was for your particular flight over a period of time. Look at the contingency figure next time you have one of these plans and see what extra has been given for this very reason. It won't show as additional because additional fuel should only be carried if unforseen circumstances are forecast.

[Dune]

Here is the link to the annual report.

Annual Report | Facts & Figures | The Emirates Group (http://www.theemiratesgroup.com/english/facts-figures/annual-report.aspx)

Have a look at the Financial Information 2011-2012 document with respect to expenditure and Employee Cost as % of Total Operating Cost:

2007-2008-15.9%

2008-2009-14.3%

2009-2010-15.9%

2010-2011-15.6%

2011-2012-13.1%

A huge relative reduction in employee cost as a percentage of total operating cost for which you can be damn sure the SVP/EVP/SVEPP/SPVDDVP's, etc, etc, etc will all be receiving a considerable "performance" bonus (every senior manager in Flight Ops) on the back of your considerable increased productivity for the year.

[glofish]

Well, if the percentage of fuel rises in the TOC, some other percentage will go down. So there’s no change in OC of manpower, simply the relation changed.


No bonus and a shabby 3% on the payroll …. No, there will not be mass resignation. There are still tons of applicants that fuel the borderless arrogance of EK management. Therefore they can and will do whatever they want.

The problem is more subtle, hidden in the daily ops. Considering the huge buffer between the profit and our share(not), it settles into our subconscious, that it makes no difference if we work our butts off or not, so in the future we will not. It’s as simple as that. Why should we shut down engines, chose idle rev, strive for that on time departure or slow down if early, change level for pax comfort or savings, why should we go that extra mile for the company? It makes no difference to my wallet, so why make our life more complicated?

The operation will hardly run smoother from now on. Most probably they will see an increase of the fuel bill, not much, but indifference will show. Then they will bombard us with letters, threats, fci’s and so forth, to improve things and help the poor company. There will be more painful changes to our conditions to counter that subtle trend. But the trend will continue because such pressure only accelerates it. And more bashing will follow.
That is the war with pilots AAR started, as someone righlty pointed out. It is not declared, it is simply happening. There’s no unified pilot front, no individual the other side can point out and take out publicly as a warning showcase. It’s like the worlds most powerful army fighting some morons in remote mountains. As we know, there’s no winner in such confrontations. The whole building just gets cracks and eventually needs huge renovations.

Been there, seen that. No one learnes the lessons, every airline management thinks they know better. It’s a matter of time, but even EK will fall of its self erected high pedestal, because their arrogance has already started dismantling an important supporting strut, the one consisting of its employees.

[Dune]

Well, if the percentage of fuel rises in the TOC, some other percentage will go down. So there’s no change in OC of manpower, simply the relation changed.

Not quite so simple. Run a ratio of % employee costs to % fuel costs over the past 5 years and see what ratio you come up with. Lowest annual employee cost:fuel cost by a significant margin.

Fuel costs they cannot control; employee costs they can (no union) and have done so significantly on a cost relative basis over the past 5 years ........ obviously without any regard for the long term health, family well-being or career prospects of anyone (save a few office wogs) in the pilot group.

It is what it is but statistically it merely reiterates how we have been backed into a corner over the past 5 years.

[maligno]

CSA is interviewing. commuting 6/2, 215k a year after tax. 80 hrs max per month. 230 USD extra over 80 hrs.
Scoot also interviewing, but its OK only for those without kids.

China Southern ordered 10 777 for 2013
Eastern China just ordered 20 777 two weeks ago.

Future, salary and conditions looking brighter in South east Asia.

Here, it will become worse and worse. This is just the beginning.
(Medical, allowances, days OFF, Holidays, etc etc etc and prices in Dubai in the skies.....This is not NY, Sydney, Singapore, London, etc etc...its just Dubai, desert, sand, beach and Malls...not even comparable to the big cities of the world)

If you are looking for life quality, time OFF and good money to save for your future, then Dubai and Emirates is not the place anymore.

Dont burn brain cells anymore. Take care of your health and your love ones.

Bye bye those memorable times.

[BYMONEK]

LR3

Your really are confusing the pants off me. Isn't Flight Ops actually making your life easier with STATCON? Unless there is fog forcast, or en route sig weather or any other unplanned or variable event, then you don't need to 'umm' and 'arr' about how much fuel to take, it's already been decided for you! Not sure therefore how this is a valid example of management 'attacking you'?

Careful with generalising about Indian ATC. With the pressures and rules they work under, most do a bloody good job. Only wish they didn't speak so fast!

[xbleedstart]

Hey LR3
I am so sick of your post. What did I sign up for??????
Productivity pay dude!
Day in a month
28 = 70
29 = 73
30 = 76
31 = 78

Now
28 = 83
29 = 86
30 = 89
31 = 92

Last year that equates to over 60000. DHS loss.
I really don't want to sink to a low and call names, so please stop with "what did you sign up for?"

I really don't think you are a pilot flying the line.

XBS

[White Knight]

I am so sick of your post. What did I sign up for??????
Productivity pay dude!



Dipstick......................

No such thing in the contract to sign up for!
I hope you're a John Deere muppet, cos you and I won't get along:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[K9]

This an exerpt from the 1st July Letter on the 1996 Pilots Pay Award. Note the honesty and general tone of the letter. Also the well explained and logical rational behind the changes....

Productivity Pay/Credited Hours

Emirates Pilots average flying hours compare very favourably with the industry norms, and in the past few years there has been a significate extra effort, when unplanned additional aircraft have been brought into service at short notice to meet the commercial demand. It has been my wish for some time to reward pilots who make a direct contribution to the profitability of our Company. We will therefore start a Productivity Pay Scheme from 1st August 1996.

In order to measure Pilot work output far more precisely than in the past, we will change to a Credited Hour Scheme, rather than simply measure Block Hours.

The calculation of Credited Hours will be done as follows:-

Block Hour = 1 Credit Hour
Minimum Daily Credit on duty = 3.5 Credit Hours/per crew rotation
Standby = 3.5 Credit Hours/per duty
Simulator/Ground Duty = 3.5 Credit Hours/per duty
Office Duty = 3.5 Credit Hours/per duty
Leave = 2.5 Credit Hours/Day
Postioning as passenger = As for flying duty
Sickness = Nil Credit
Day Off = Nil Credit

The setting of the threshold for the triggering of Productivity Pay has been the subject of considerable analysis. It has been decided that the initial levels will be as follows:

31 day month = 83.7 Credit Hours
30 day month = 81 Credit Hours
29 day month = 78.3 Credit Hours
28 day month = 75.6 Credit Hours

Pilots who exceed the above values in any calendar month will be paid per Credit Hour or portion thereof at the following rates:

Captains 400 Dirhams
First Officers 280 Dirhams

SGMFO

[vfenext]

Beware of people who use the phrase DUDE. Sign of midlife crisis. Right xbleed?

[etops777]

I did...I made the jump and not looking back.

[flareflyer]

Does anybody know what is the profit target for this year?

[Wizofoz]

dhs 3.5 Billion.