Bilbao crosswind landings on a windy day!

[tartare]

Great footage of cross wind landings at Bilbao:

BBC News - High winds shake planes landing in Bilbao, Spain (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17863501)

At least one overshoot - and some very squirrelly landings - including what looks like a 737 yawing after touchdown.
Having never flown there - is this airport known for tricky crosswinds or was this just unusual WX conditions?

[Loose rivets]

Just that touch of wing down seemed to instantly stabilize the last one. Well, to the point of being containable. Pity engines and big flaps stop us standing on the top rudder these days. ;)

[tartare]

Sorry rivets - don't understand... please explain? :)
Although I only fly lighties - those did look like `interesting' landings - even for big, hairy chested jet pilots...

[Acklington]

Mad Piloting Landing Skills Through Extremely Windy Weather - YouTube

Just interested in what you pilots thought of these

[Pilotinmydreams]

Not sure if this was the right forum so I understand if it's moved.

Just saw this on BBC website. May be all in a days work for you but looks bloody scary to me and just makes me thankful we have a professional sitting at the pointy end

BBC News - High winds shake planes landing in Bilbao, Spain (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17863501)

[silverhawk]

If it is within limits, that's what we are trained to do.

That is why 1 Euro fares are unsustainable, because training and safety costs money. Experience is worth rewarding.

Interesting that the only decent, stable approach was in a B737. Hmmmm pays your money and takes your choice. You get what you pay for and maybe you want to bear that in mind when choosing a carrier.

[Pilotinmydreams]

Completely agree with regard experience is worth the reward. If my £30 flight to x European country costs £5 more then i'd be happy to pay it knowing there's someone with experience getting me on the black stuff in one piece

[Tony Flynn]

Dramatic cross-wind landings in Bilbao - Video Dailymotion (http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xqf4zr_dramatic-cross-wind-landings-in-bilbao_fun)

[Dct_Mopas]

Interesting that the only decent, stable approach was in a B737. Hmmmm pays your money and takes your choice. You get what you pay for and maybe you want to bear that in mind when choosing a carrier.

I didnt see a single 737 in that video, a couple of A320's yes. Great video though

[lomapaseo]

You get what you pay for and maybe you want to bear that in mind when choosing a carrier

That's about as helpful advice as suggesting that you wait until three back-to-back crashes before taking your next trip

John-Q depends on experts in the regulator establishment to assess and control safety. If you expect him to do it by innuenedo and rumour he will get so mixed up that he simply won't fly at all ... can you say

redundunancies

[TSR2]

Have you noticed that in the second and third landing, the aircraft passing overhead is not the aircraft that is landing. Look at the location of the engines.

[i_like_tea]

Looks like a tough day out, a few of my friends had winds head and go arounds leading to diversions.

The last aircraft isn't a 737 though!

Very good to see the rejected landing too, and that they didn't try and continue it. Bravo!

[ZOOKER]

Funny how one group of 'professionals', (journalists and cameramen), leech off another group of professionals, (pilots, air-men, and ladies, of course).
Yet, the former, and their 'editors', cannot even be *rsed to get the continuity right. :=
Pathetic.

[mary meagher]

BBC this evening with some interesting film of wild winds at Bilbao, pilots have to earn their pesos landing in galloping crosswinds....

[rocket66]

Call me odd but why would the skippers of those jets attempt to land in winds like that more than once? Its clear to me that it was a bit risky for the first attempt let alone to try again.

[750k]

Strange concept Rocket, I have adopted a policy of trying to keep the aircraft and myself intact, regardless of what or who is behind me!

[mini]

I haven't seen the BBC coverage but CNN were sensationalising this with accelerated video footage of high yaw rate landings and a few FJ climb rate GAs.

I'd guess it was sporty but no doubt all lived... :rolleyes:

[McGoonagall]

I did watch this earlier and the final landing looked an absolute beauty.

:ok::ok:

[framer]

If you were a freighter with nothing but the freight to lose go for it but when your carrying 100 plus pax you should have more in mind I reckon
Would be an interesting industry if we applied that theory. Freighters and turbo props would operate in hairy conditions, jets with 100 pax would operate in more favourable conditions, and 747's and A380's would only fly with a high cloud base and light winds......

[rocket66]

Sorry folks, just re-read my post. What I mean is, pax comfort and safety is something that would be high on my list, my guess is the pax in the back would have been ****ting themselves. :eek:

If you were say a freighter, and were confident that in similar conditions you could land you might want to give it a go.


Rocket

[AircraftOperations]

The fact that the video is being played back at faster than normal speed makes things look a bit more dramatic.

[xtypeman]

One also has to take into account the perspective added to the speed. The video is taken on a telephoto lens looking down the runway giving a poor perspective. To make a comparison you would need to see a side view to compare. Dont forget that operations would have been conducted within crosswind liimts. Recently I have also seen videos from a similar viewpoint at Dusseldorf. I am sure that there are probably hundreds on Youtube.

[con-pilot]

What I mean is, If your silly enough to try it go for it

Silly? What a completely inappropriate and non-appropriable term. We are not payed to be silly. To suggest that freight pilots have a less professional attitude toward flight safety is absurd, along with being completely false.

It is quite obvious that you are not an experienced pilot and the orifice you are talking out of is not your mouth.

Do not attempt to make professional criticisms in a profession that you are not a professional in.


Oh, and one more point, it is spelled you're.

[DX Wombat]

If you were a freighter with nothing but the freight to lose go for it So the lives of those who fly freight are worth less than those who fly people? Rubbish! They are worth EXACTLY the same. :mad:

[rocket66]

Ok, its clear I've stood on toes here and so I have edited my post.

Con-Pilot, a bloke your age that has been a "Professional" for soooo long should, by now, be able to hold your tongue and/or put your point across in a more "Professional" manner rather than have a hissyfit like a 6 year old.

I am the first to admit my posts didn't read as well as I hoped and by no means are the lives of freighter pilots worth less than pax pilots. I meant that freighter pilots do not have to worry about pax comfort in rough conditions.

DX Wombat would love to know exactly what :mad: sound like.


Rocket

[LondonPax]

Some interesting landings here: BBC News - High winds shake planes landing in Bilbao, Spain (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17863501)

Maybe not the best thing to watch while in the departure lounge at LHR, but it is a bit calmer than that here, thankfully.

[PAXboy]

Happens all the time, as pilots do their stuff. Not always caught on camera. Not always a quiet news day! ;)

Thread tunning here: http://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcony-spotters-corner-52/

[korrol]

Tartare's very interesting assembly of cross-wind landings highlights a problem in many of the world's airports where the main runway alignment is selected to line up with the prevailing winds and there's nothing else to land on when the wind doesn't oblige.

Today at Cardiff Airport for example several flights had to be diverted or delayed because of high crosswinds which made landing on the main runway almost impossible.

But this begs the question - what about the other runway?. After all, most UK airports started life as RAF bases where there'd always be two runways in a cruciform formation at about 90 degrees to each other. If one runway was out because of crosswinds then the one aligned at 90 degrees to it would have far less of a problem. Maybe those old RAF guys knew a thing or two.

In civilian life many airports seem to have progressively concentrated on just the main east/west-aligned runway and forgotten all about the other one. Were they right to do so? Maybe there'd be fewer white-knuckle landings if the old layout had been retained .

[tartare]

Errm, not me Guv - it's commercial broadcaster footage - I just linked to it.
Coincidentally, being someone who used to work in TV in another life, as well as being a PPL - even allowing for camera angle and the foreshortening effects of camera zoom - those are still some pretty spectacular crosswind landings.
Yes - crap continuity mixing up different types on approach and touchdown.
And that Challenger/Gulfstream/Jungle Jet thingy that rejects it's landing was blown a loooong way off the centreline!!!

[TurboTomato]

I meant that freighter pilots do not have to worry about pax comfort in rough conditions.

It would appear so from reading threads in the freighter forum - they'll put up with mild/heavy turbulence for longer before attempting to avoid it (I guess that's dependent on what you're carrying as well). The point is up in the cruise they have a choice whether to do that or not. Passenger jets have little choice as to where they are going to land and they can do nothing to avoid weather conditions at their destination. I'm sure the passengers would rather have an uncomfortable landing than divert to an airport miles away where the conditions are better.

[Rinty]

'I'm sure the passengers would rather have an uncomfortable landing than divert to an airport miles away where the conditions are better.'

Not sure about that TurboT - my guess is that most pax associate an 'uncomfortable landing' with fear of crashing and would be more than happy to divert. Suppose it depends how far away the divert is?

Would make an intersting study i.e. percieved risk of injury v's inconvenience.

Ladies and gentlemen this is yoru captain speaking. Airport A is experiencing severe crosswinds conditions (insert low vis, enormous hailstones etc) currently and statistically there is a very slightly higher risk of an 'incident' occuring. Would you like to proceed to airport A or divert to airport B which is 100 miles away?

Before everyone jumps down my throat, I know that different a/c have different crosswind tolerances and that the captain is a professional etc etc - its just a hypothetical.

[2 Whites 2 Reds]

I flew into Vitoria a few hours prior to this footage at Bilbao, just down the road. The wind was horrific, even to the point at 3000 feet the Autopilot wanted to disengage itself. Oh.......and swapped runways twice in 10 mins as well, just to add to the excitement!

The last time I want to see a 72kt wind at 3000' :\

2W2R

[shaun ryder]

Interesting that the only decent, stable approach was in a B737.

How could you know whether or not any of those approaches were stable from watching amateur video footage?

Hmmmm pays your money and takes your choice. You get what you pay for and maybe you want to bear that in mind when choosing a carrier.


Does that include Lufthansa?

Lufthansa Airbus wingstrike at Hamburg - YouTube