Marching

[Defenestrator]

My daughter (7 years old) is participating in the ANZAC Day commemorations. I've informed her she's marching on behalf of her Mothers Brother, My Dad, her Great Grandfather and 2 Great Uncles. 3 of the five are still alive and 2 were pilots. 1 didn't make it back. Shot down in PNG. Wreckage never found.

Please mention a relative if it applies.

Lest we forget.

D
Edit: To correctly reflect the sentiment. Thank you Crescent. You're quite right.

[flying-spike]

My youngest is in cadets and in the caterfalk party for a number of services. He will be wearing my fathers medals and he asked if he could wear mine!
I might have another look at the will. I don't want to give him too much incentive..........

[Old 'Un]

This raises the question: What is the protocol for descendants of service personnel wearing service medals at an official event (such as Dawn Service)?

My nephew holds the medals awarded to my father, and we have often talked about this, although we have never bothered to follow it up to find out the official line.

At one stage I was told by someone purportedly 'in the know' that such medals may be worn by descendants of the recipient, but are worn on the right, not the left.

Can anyone confirm/deny/set the record straight?

Le Vieux

[vigi-one]

Well Done all for allowing Youngsters to participate in ANZAC Day ceremonies.

Relatives Only may wear the medals of related family members to Dawn Services and ANZAC Day Parades (note not school ceremonies not conducted on the 25th April - not sure if this has changed recently). Medals are not to be of the mess (miniture) style but full size. The Medals are to be worn on the Right Breast (only actual recipients may wear on the left Breast). Medals must be removed after midday.

Hope that helps.

Lest we forget

RSL amnd RAAFA member

[Bad medicine]

From Defence Honours and Awards:
Although not officially sanctioned, a protocol has been accepted that family members of a deceased recipient may wear that person’s medals on commemorative occasions such as Anzac Day and Remembrance Day. In these circumstances, the medals should be worn on the right side to show that the wearer is not the original recipient.

There is no limitation or formal policy on what occasions they should be worn. In essence, the wearing of forebear's medals on the right breast is a convention passed down over the years that is largely dictated by the occasion and (ideally) a measure of decorum fitting the event. They should not be worn lightly or where it would be inappropriate to do so.


Cheers,

BM

[Old 'Un]

Thanks folks, that clarifies the situation for me.

Lest we forget.

Le Vieux

[Jack Ranga]

Percy William Milton (Grand Father) A strapping lad of 85kg, 6ft 1 and a half inches!

Enlisted Goulburn NSW 1st February 1917.

20th Infantry Battalion (5th Brigade) 2nd Machine Gun Company.

Medically disharged (wounded, right leg amputated)

Fought at Bullecourt, Menin Road, Poelcappelle, Hangard Wood.

Returned to Australia, started a family, died of pneumonia in his 40's. More likely lung damage from chemical weapons?

R.I.P. Digger. The respect I have for you and your generation cannot be measured. Reflect on what it means to be Australian and the sacrifices they made for us..............

Lest We Forget............

[Jack Ranga]

Defenestrator :ok: I hope she keeps the tradition alive long after we are gone!

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

Although not officially sanctioned, a protocol has been accepted that family members of a deceased recipient may wear that person’s medals on commemorative occasions such as Anzac Day and Remembrance Day. In these circumstances, the medals should be worn on the right side to show that the wearer is not the original recipient.

If you weren't the recipient, don't wear them - IMHO!

Dr :8

[Crescent]

George "Curly" Trevethan 2/7 Div Cav - saw action on Sanananda Road, evac'd with malaria January 1943, sadly deceased last year.

Just want to point out ANZAC Day is a commemoration as opposed to a celebration.

Am choosing to leave the march and medals to the ones who earned them myself, but am part of the 2/7 Div Cav Association in respect of my grandfathers service.

Lest We Forget

[Aussie Bob]

If you weren't the recipient, don't wear them - IMHO!

I would go so far as to say, don't even march in this government inspired masquerade of political correctness.

My grandad survived Gallopoli, and then the Western Front, came home with one eye, one lung and an attitude towards ANZAC day that lasted his long lifetime. Needless to say he never marched again after discharge. That his medals still survive is a miracle and if any of his offspring had the temerity to wear them in a government sponsored march the old geeza would turn in his grave.

Best we regret.

I respect the fact that others may not share my sentiments .....

[Jack Ranga]

I respect the fact that others may not share my sentiments .....

And that's what's good about this country mate, you wont have some inbred who can't think for him\herself declaring a fatwa on ya for expressing your opinion, Percy fought for that and I thank him and his mates :ok:

[Di_Vosh]

I've got no problem with relatives wearing their parents/granparents/etc, medals.

IMHO, only returned soldiers should be marching on Anzac day.

DIVOSH!

[Worrals in the wilds]

I'm with you, DIVOSH, but IMO it's up to the RSLs to make the call. If the vets are happy to have non vets marching, it's their gig.

My grandfather never marched, despite a hefty WWII stint. When I was a kid I once asked him why he never marched; his answer was 'Oh darling, I wasn't really brave. Not like Freddy, Paul etc'. This was despite shrapnel in one leg that he still carries around and at least three overseas deployments. Not a bad effort for a bloke who writes poetry and puts up with possums raiding his kitchen via the cat flap because 'they're probably hungry.':\

They're a different breed. :ok:

[Keg]

If you weren't the recipient, don't wear them - IMHO!


I know of a 13 year old, 11 year old and 2 year old who wear their father's medals with great pride when they travel as part of the Legacy contingent each ANZAC day. Each of them have their own set. There is a great photo of the then 1 year old grabbing at Chief of Army's Order of Australia (or similar... you get the idea) last ANZAC day. It's been only three years since they lost their Dad. I'm not going to dispute their desire to see their father's memory celebrated on ANZAC day by wearing the medals he was awarded.

What I don't like- and we're starting to see more and more of- is relatives almost 'blinging up' on relatives medals. I've seen 2 and 3 rows of relatives medals. There has almost become a sense of 'my relative did more than your relative'.

IMHO, only returned soldiers should be marching on Anzac day.


As part of the RSL contingent? I tend to agree. However I reckon it's great seeing Air Force Cadets, Army Cadets, Navy Cadets, Guides, Scouts, Air League, schools, etc marching at their local ANZAC services. None of them march mixed in with the the RSL contingent though. The march a respectful distance behind.

[Defenestrator]

It's all about respect and rememberance. My youngens get it. It matters little where the medals are worn.

Lest we forget.

[SgtBundy]

As far as I know the only service relative I had was my great uncle who flew Sunderlands in WW2. I did participate in ANZAC day parades as a member of the AIRTC and on a few occasions was privileged enough to form part of the Cenotaph guard. I won't ever forget the time a veteran sought us out after the parade and just came up to give us a pat on the shoulder and a "good job lads".

My thought at the time was "All I did was stand in the sun for 20 minutes for them, who knows what they did for me".

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

It would soon be a very short parade, if some of the above comments were to be implemented.
My Dad was wheeled about in a wheelchair for the last two parades of his life,
and the RAAF Squadron 451 Officers and men (Western Desert) have just about all gone.
Only a couple left now....its sad, but that's life....

My son wears his Grandad's medals, as the 'old man' so wished it to be...

I just drive the old veterans who can't walk the distance any more...in the parade.

Lest we forget.

[Worrals in the wilds]

Fair enough. Like I said, it's your march.
I just drive the old veterans who can't walk the distance any more...in the parade.That's nice of you. I'm all for wheeled transport for the old blokes, I know the march becomes very difficult as guys get older, particularly if it's warm.

[Di_Vosh]

A topic such as this one is always going to rouse strong emotions.

Anzac day is many things to many people; The meaning of Anzac day is very different for veterans of WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam and more recent conflicts. It's not helped by the modern phenomenon of politicising everything possible to make an event such as this "Everything to Everybody".

So yes, I have a problem with relatives (with or without medals) marching anywhere on Anzac day (flag parties excepted).

Am I wrong? I spent some time last year at a lunch for WWII paras and they were disgusted with what they called "the circus" that was the parade. As far as they were concerned only returned soldiers should march. In my experience, this is a common opinion amongst WWII veterans.

It would soon be a very short parade, if some of the above comments were to be implemented.

I have no problem with that. IMHO, a shorter meaningful parade is better than a drawn out parade that is pandering to modern tastes by including anyone who feels that they've a right to march because their great-grand uncle fought in WWI (and I know people who feel exactly that way).

I have never met a serving soldier who takes offense at relatives marching...

I have. Most soldiers I've met prefer the relatives to wave and clap as the parade passes.

Is this supposed to be funny champ?

I suggest you read Aussie Bob's entire post again! I don't share his sentiments, but I see where he is coming from.

DIVOSH!

[mcgrath50]

I must agree with DiVosh, cadets/flagparties/whatver aside, I don't like to see relatives marching on behalf of grandparents. With I can accept. If my grandparents had been ANZACs I would have loved to share that moment with them if they had wanted me to. But when I stand next to the road, I want to clap and acknowledge veterans not their grandkids.

Personally I think a reducing parade is a good thing, it means less war in the world. Sadly with Vietnam, Korea, the two Iraq Wars, Afghanistan and various smaller conflicts in between, we aren't short of veterans. I dream of the day we see one remaining veteran marching for then we will have no war. This of course though will never happen, I think this is where Aussie Bob get's his 'Best We Regret' sentiment from.

[frigatebird]

I'll march again, if they allow me even though I resisted pressure to join the Association, though last year I thought that I wouldn't again. And I'll try to keep our group in step, in line, and with a crisply executed 'eyes left' at the Reviewing Officer. Can't say I enjoy seeing the children straggle along, but can understand their pride, and their want to be involved and respectful of the occasion.
It will be out of respect for the '500' of my generation that gave their lives for a political decision and an Alliance. Pity the new generation of polititicians haven't learnt from that debacle to rush Aussies off to other countries wars either.
Our Front Line includes our airports and our beaches, and also stretches up from Stewart Island via Fiji to Sumatra and includes future hotspots in the archipeligoes we will have to deal with on our own, without rushing off further to exotic Middle Eastern and mainland Asian destinations for others agendas.

[Trojan1981]

In The Weeds
As a serving soldier I am proud to see the descendants of veterans marching on ANZAC day. It makes me proud to see that the legacy left by brave soldiers will not be forgotten, and that younger generations are proud of what their great grandad, pop, or dad has sacrificed for us.

I have never met a serving soldier who takes offense at relatives marching or wearing gongs.


ITW, I don't entirely agree. When I was a young cadet I wore my Great-Granfather's WWI and WWII RN medals (my Grandfather has never even shown his own medals to me) and marched on ANZAC day.

These days, however, I have my own active service medals from the military. I have marched a couple of times but I feel the presence of relatives wearing family medals a bit off-putting. This probably heightened by the fact that a couple of friends have died on deployment, and the medal entitlement was a hot issue for one at the time. I didn't attend last year and Im not sure I will this year either. Children Ok, but not adult descendants. I don't think you should be marching unless you are the veteran or perhaps immediate family ie. Widow or child of a member killed on deployment; or as a result of service.

Also, many veterans have also qualified for medals that are to be worn on the right breast, such as state and/or foreign service medals.

Just my opinion.

McGrath50
Personally I think a reducing parade is a good thing, it means less war in the world. Sadly with Vietnam, Korea, the two Iraq Wars, Afghanistan and various smaller conflicts in between, we aren't short of veterans. I dream of the day we see one remaining veteran marching for then we will have no war. This of course though will never happen, I think this is where Aussie Bob get's his 'Best We Regret' sentiment from.

C'mon mate, this isn't what you said when I was talking to you about joining the RAAF! Though I understand your sentiment. :ok:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Reur "Personally I think a reducing parade is a good thing, it means less war in the world. Sadly with Vietnam, Korea, the two Iraq Wars, Afghanistan and various smaller conflicts...."

Do you actually manage to live in a shell....sorta "tortoise like..??"

I reckon you had better read some History there young fella....since WHEN has there actually been LESS WAR in the world..??

The 'Reducing Parade' on ANZAC DAY is indicative ONLY of the the reduction of the number of Australians who 'did their job' for the rest of us....

There are PLENTY of 'conflcts' if you want to go and get 'involved'....

:eek::eek::ugh::ugh::{:{:yuk::yuk::=:=

Lest We Forget......

(Some people....)

[mcgrath50]

I think you are missing my point Griffo.

Are you arguing it's a shame that we don't have tens of thousands of young men and women going to war, many not to return nowadays? Are you saying that if there was no more war in the world it would be a shame?

You are right though, there is still war and has been a couple big ones pretty much every decade since WW2 and countless smaller ones. The parade won't be reduced by that much. I will be there on Wednesday morning at dawn, thinking of those lost, those returned, the heroism they all displayed.

Sure a desire to end war is one that history tells me will never happen. Yet history tells my dad he won't win the lottery but he keeps playing. :ok:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Re
'Are you arguing it's a shame that we don't have tens of thousands of young men and women going to war, many not to return nowadays? Are you saying that if there was no more war in the world it would be a shame?'

Are you a 'spin doctor'? :yuk:

[Di_Vosh]

Suggest you two pull your heads in...

[flying-spike]

My father was one of the Rats of Tobruk then fought at El Alemain where he was injured. He was discharged due the injuries and never marched on ANZAC firstly because the pain of his injuries was too great (the bren gun carrier he was driving hit a mine and the blast ruined the circulation in his legs) and then because the emotional strain was too much. I marched for him as a cadet because he couldn't.

When my boys were old enough they took over. The youngest still does. I didn't march until I received the ADM because I spent 9 years in the Army just after Vietnam and didn't see operational service despite the fact that 7 of the 9 was in field force units.
Now I can't march due to illness.

My oldest son has just joined the Army and after last weeks news has been told that 70% of them will go to Afghanistan despite the job being made harder because of the shortened time frame.

I am proud of all those have served and take pride in the fact that their service guaranteed the freedom to have this sort of discussion.
Just support our troops past, present and future (curse the pollies if you want to)