Late 2012/2013 Pilot sponsorship schemes

[Joe86]

Just thought I would ask the masses.

As the Flybe/PTC sponsorship has now closed has anyone heard anything on the grape vine of possible late 2012 or 2013 airline sponsorship opportunities from other operators?

[GolfTangoFoxtrot]

Flybe/CTC opens in just over a week. That's the only dead cert then you could just assume that EZY MPL at Oxford will open again, Flybe at FTE/OAA/PTC will open again as that seems to be mainly how they source their cadet entry and then of course BA FPP at some point in the next 12months hopefully. Interesting to see what happens to the CTC Monarch wings scheme.

[skyways1452]

The BA FPP is not scheduled to run again until 2014 at the earliest.

[GolfTangoFoxtrot]

You state that with some conviction, do you know something that we don't or are you guessing bearing in mind APD/BMI etc?

[BigNumber]

hold your horses; I think you will find quite a few sponsor schemes will open up in the next few months and into autumn.

The pilot shortage is starting to bite hard now.

Opportunities are starting to flow quickly now.

[530 hours on a B350]

Meanwhile, experienced pilots looking to advance in their careers go overlooked.

[skyways1452]

GTF, I was told by a union representative who had been informed from BA themselves. I'm not exactly sure at which point they decided to cancel this years and next years run.

[tumtiddle]

Is the Flybe/CTC for definite opening soon? If so, is it likely to be similar conditions (particularly cost-wise) to the just-closed FTE/OAA/PTC offer, or would I be better off waiting until (hopefully) that scheme comes around again?

Thanks in advance.

[tumatuya]

Hey guys
For FlyBe program could you please confirm that for a non-EU country citizen application is not possible?..
I mean do they sponsor the part of "right to work in UK" also or not?.. :)
Thank you

[jackw]

With applications for the FlyBe programme closing on the 14th of May does anyone have any idea of a rough time frame as to when the next stage of this competition will take place?

[Krimson]

How does it work with an ICAO license? Would you have to convert to JAR before applying for a program like this? (Any similar company in EU)

Is there any way to fly in EU with a reputable company without going through the lengthy and pricy conversion?

[redsnail]

Krimson,

Short answer, no. Under the old system (UK CAA and others) you could get a dispensation to fly for a year but you still had to do the exams to continue flying. Occasionally, an airline will take another airline's crew for a fixed term (eg easyJet took some Qantas B737 FOs for a year or so) but in the main, there's no other way other than doing the conversion.

There are some N reg bizjets running around but I believe soon they'll have to have EASA licences. There's some stuff about that in the GA forum. I'm not sure of the details as I have an EASA/JAA licence so it doesn't affect me.

[Chief Willy]

Joe86, look out for CityJet too, they tend to run a mentored scheme down at FTE most years. TCX may run theirs again soon.

I would strongly advocate holding out until you get onto a mentored scheme, even if it takes longer than 1 or 2 years to get on one. Only the very brave, wealthy (or financially foolish?) would take a £100k gamble on an integrated course. There is a chance you will not get a job at the far end. With mentored schemes this risk is substantially reduced and often the cost of training is lower than if you were to pay for an integrated course and type-rating. In the mean time you can be saving as much cash as possible to reduce any loan you might need to take. It took me many years of building my CV and building up financial resources to be able to get on such a scheme - so be warned you may need to be patient!

[Chief Willy]

Wasn't aware of that about CityJet. Shows that you really do have to do your research into the airline mentoring the scheme. Looks like BA and easyJet are the better of the schemes currently in existence. Be careful with Flybe and build yourself a spreadsheet to work out the finances. I ran the numbers on one of their schemes and figured I wouldn't be able to afford to eat with loan repayments, let alone ever make a return on the capital outlay!

[Joe86]

Yeah you are right Willy, I have been saving for over 2 years now looking at August 2013 to have the money in place if I was to go it alone for PTC/CTC etc...

I currently work for Airbus as a in-service repair engineer so I've got my little toe into the world of aviation knowledge which hopefully will give me a heads up for interviews and assessments :).

So yeah not in a hurry at the moment, also being a Somerset boy Flybe would be nice, wish eastern airways did a similar scheme :).

[captain.weird]

Why Eastern :hmm:?

[skyways1452]

Cityjet are indeed making redundancies at the moment and TCX appear to be happy to take experienced type rated people in the interim. Even then, I'd be hesitant to spend money on a TCX tagged scheme considering the precarious situation they are in at the moment. Same with Thomson.

City Flyer: now now, I don't think we can safely speculate anything, and I don't think it's fair that you rubbish my news from an official in the aviation industry and then make your own prediction in the same post :confused:

All I'm saying is that people are asking this question on a regular basis and I was quite happy to at least hear this news myself so thought I would pass it on as it's probably the best people are going to get. I would assume it's much easier for airlines to say that something is not going to happen rather than is.

[Joe86]

I would like to fly short haul/turbo props in the UK if I could :)

[jersey145]

Chief Willy, you seem to suggest flybe pilot's live on crew food scraps and in cardboard shelters or in their cars? Whilst any first job post ab-initio trg is tight in terms of cash, I don't recall being penniless. I was always able to rent decent accommodation that never broke the bank, had its own private secure car park etc, with no help from the parents.

In terms of repayments, I started on £23000 and today's new FO starts on £28000. For part sponsored (those with the BE loan) there is an optional 2 year payment holiday to ease the out goings whilst getting settled in life. A 5 year bond adds to security ( the board wants the money back in terms of their pound of flesh by working you). With an ever increasing jet fleet, the time spent on the splash is getting shorter, currently 4 years on average and reducing. Time to command? Well for those who joined as the doors closed in 2008, several are now either going through command courses, or are waiting for the start date to arrive. Currently 4 to 5 years.
Living costs? Well with only 3 bases in the south, the chances are you will be somewhere 'north of the river' where living costs and rent are a lot less than the ol' smoke. Having worked at LGW in the past, the money away from London goes a lot further.
Repaying initial capital outlay? I'm currently on £49000, paid back the Loan, saved a deposit and have a mortgage. Command course starts pronto, not even 30 years old. True, no shiny airbus, but certainly a great grounding on the dash for my career. I actually got to fly it as well. (unlike FBW'd busses) That's why I wanted to be a pilot, to fly. Current commercial plan hints that my time back on the dash could be very limited, due to rate of fleet replacement.

Being looked after interms of accommodation, transport (HOTAC) and a meal allowance during initial TR, as well as not paying a penny for the TR is a huge help.

Roster stability? Your roster here is a greater work of fiction than even Shakespeare could put together for a famous tragedy.

Not sure what the loan amount is other than several F/Os in base having one, but a standard bond for a TR is 13,500 reducing over 3 years from FLC. Most of the ex-cadets seem happy with their choices, given just how competitive the jobs market is right now. In a few years time, they will either be on a jet, going for command, or heading off somewhere else to work ( market conditions not withstanding) that said we a seeing pilots head into the arabian sunset. It would appear that certain airlines realise that an airbus is a pile of tosh to fly compared with the 'do it yourself, coz the airplane sure can't' Dash. And that turbo-prop pilots can indeed fly jets. We certainly prove that by converting pilots on to our FBW jet fleet.

Congrats on the FPP course. It certainly does seem very nice. But please don't rubbish airlines that have continued to hire ab initios and offer courses when none of the other big boys wanted to do their part. No one here is poor, it certainly is tough in those first couple of years, I'm sure living around London on a FPP scale won't be awfully easy either. But after the hard bit, it does get better.

And yes dooooo wait and get on an airline scheme! So many people have completed training with no hope of a job in the future due to the market conditions.

[First.officer]

Apologies if this is thread drift......what are the chances of guys with some experience getting into FlyBe ? I've been registered on their application portal for a few years now, update my details regularly but it seems to not lead anywhere by way of response - is it mainly freshly minted cadets getting in, or perhaps more about knowing the right person(s) within ?.

[FANS]

Flybe is a good place to be in today's environment, and fair play to them for undertaking ab-initio schemes. It can also be tough work with a high performance and challenging aircraft. Not so fair play for not negotiating any discounts on training for the cadets, but that is another story.


As CW points, it can't be done on a 100% loan, but that's actually very good. Gain some employment first and then you can actually appreciate how hard it is to earn tens of thousand after tax and living is paid!

[steve.wythe]

Heads up: Flybe Wings | CTC Wings (http://www.ctcwings.com/flybewings)

[First.officer]

Ah, guess the new "CTC/Flybe Wings" programme answers my earlier question.....would explain why i've never heard anything perhaps lol....gone are the days of anyone wanting experienced F/O's i guess......

[adsSW]

Am I being silly or is the funding information a little confusing for this CTC Flybe scheme? It says cadets will be bonded for 3 years to pay the TR cost of £13,500. It also says that Flybe's contribution (around £20,000) will be paid back by the cadet by 60 monthly instalments. So basically we pay for TR and their other contribution to the course?

[FANS]

The TR will only be paid if you leave the airline early, i.e. before 3 years.

The basic cost is still £85k and it's interesting that it's back to the fATPL rather than an MPL as has been the recent fashion.

I don't see why they can't structure this deal with an amount paid back tax free to cover the course cost per the BA and EZY scheme of old.

[Joe86]

I have has a look at the Flybe/CTC scheme and to me it looks good, ok it is £65k... but that’s a lot better than the £100K it would cost you to be a cadet.

Sadly I won’t be applying this year as I don’t have the money in place yet. This time next year however... Just hope they keep running the scheme into 2013!

[pudoc]

I'm quite interested in it, despite the fact I have a PPL and ATPL exams done. I wouldn't mind paying £65k as I'm getting a job out of it in the end. Obviously not guaranteed but there's a good chance. I've probably only spent 13k so far, which is a lot but consider that against a type rating (especially a RYR one) then this scheme seems like a good deal considering the market right now.

[average-punter]

Great news that they're going to run it again, I heard from Lindsay Craig on Saturday that it was still under review for 2012!

[luca321]

Hi,

I'm currently getting my PPL here in Italy (while finishing school) and within the end of the year I think that I'm going to complete it.

My plans are to start my commercial training in the UK.

I've already attended an open day at OAA and I already was thinking about starting an Integrated course. However last week I discovered this Flybe/CTC scheme and destroyed all my certainties!

So my question is: what should I do??? Should I choose the OAA Integrated course or try to enter the Flybe/CTC Scheme?


I grab this opportunity to wish all the best to all pilots for their job hunt! :)

[tumtiddle]

Very tempted by the FlyBe/CTC scheme, shame I'll never get a circa £75k unsecured loan from anywhere! :{

[pudoc]

Look at many schools, not just a couple.

-CTC
-OAA
-BCFT
-Stapleford
-FTE

the list goes on.

The 5 above would be the main 5 on my list, check them out. I would apply for the Flybe thing anyway, nothing to lose and a lot to gain.

[IRISHHOPEFUL]

I've read the info on the Flybe CTC page, and then I read it again!!! I'm just interested to know how many applicants will apply! Also do you think that when they say, only the best will get through, what they really mean is, if you apply, have half a brain and 65K your in!! I always wondered about that! I have applied so will be interesting. My school grades leave a lot to be desired so I could be doomed.. But I have the money in place so who knows!!! I can't justify an integrated course that isn't mentored when course like this are up for grabs!!

[luca321]

Thanks for your answers! I think if the flybe course will be available next year, I'll go for it!
That will be, if another scheme doesn't come out! I hope that next year the BA FPP will be an option too...terms and condition seem good! :)

[pudoc]

I've read the info on the Flybe CTC page, and then I read it again!!! I'm just interested to know how many applicants will apply! Also do you think that when they say, only the best will get through, what they really mean is, if you apply, have half a brain and 65K your in!! I always wondered about that! I have applied so will be interesting. My school grades leave a lot to be desired so I could be doomed.. But I have the money in place so who knows!!! I can't justify an integrated course that isn't mentored when course like this are up for grabs!!

IMO, there's no way of knowing who the best pilots would be. The only way is to teach them how to fly and see who does it well and who doesn't.

Your grades, aptitude tests etc are just filters.

Does anyone know if they look at your training report from previous schools? I have a PPL.

[pudoc]

Not yet. I'm spending a lot of time on the 150 word questions, gotta make it good to stand out. 150 words isn't a lot...

[IRISHHOPEFUL]

Very true, They are tricky.. Pretty loaded questions too! Regarding the Industry and where it's going... Have u heard if there is much interest in the scheme?

[flyergirl1985]

Eastern take cadets seconded from a major middle east airline for a few years before handing them back, so they do have a scheme, just not directly.

[Joe86]

See this is one thing I don’t understand about the airline industry... why would a UK domestic airline take cadets from the middle east? There are people (aka me) who live and work already in the UK who would jump at the chance to be a Cadet... shame.

[Groundloop]

why would a UK domestic airline take cadets from the middle east?

Because they make money from the deal?

[magicmick]

For those of you that think the BA FPP is dead for 2012 might want to read this article, nothing definite but they reckon that phase 2 will be later this year:

British Airways Future Pilot Programme begins with ‘second phase later this year’ | Pilot Career News (http://www.pilotcareernews.com/british-airways-future-pilot-programme-begins-with-second-phase-later-this-year/)

Too late for me but good luck if it goes ahead.

[magicmick]

Yeah CF, I didn’t notice your earlier link that referenced the same info from a different source, my bad…..sincere apologies.

[amif0019]

hi guys dunno if anyone of u received an email from flybe regarding progression to phase 2 (and possibly 3) of the selection process. I received mine today phase 2 is on the 17th may... i wonder howcome the recruitment process is sooo fast...(not that im complaining) but usually these things take abit longer!!

[olivermbs]

hi guys dunno if anyone of u received an email from flybe regarding progression to phase 2 (and possibly 3) of the selection process. I received mine today phase 2 is on the 17th may... i wonder howcome the recruitment process is sooo fast...(not that im complaining) but usually these things take abit longer!!

Can someone comfirm this, please? I am interested in applying for the BEE/CTC course however I will not be able to travel to the UK before mid-July due to commitments, will this mean I will not be able to apply for this course?

[flybSOU]

It does seem rather soon....

[Fostex]

In the FAQ

When does the training with CTC start?
Your CTC training is likely to start in September/October 2012, but details of the course dates will be provided to successful candidates.


So you can imagine a lead in to that based on assessment, interviews, medicals, arranging finance etc.

[flybSOU]

Is a driving license needed? It's not on the entry requirements however it does ask about it on the application form.

[magicmick]

Perhaps some of you might be interested in this:

West Atlantic Cadet Scheme accepting applications | Pilot Career News (http://www.pilotcareernews.com/west-atlantic-cadet-scheme-accepting-applications/)

[captain.weird]

Hmm, an UK drivers license.. But I only have a Dutch one.. So will it be a no go?

[magicmick]

You will have to investigate whether you can drive in the UK on a Dutch licence, google dvla who will be able to tell you. The reason that you will need the drivers licence is that their cadets are required to do all sorts of other jobs during their training in return for free training, one of those other jobs might be driving crews to the airport or driving spares to a grounded aircraft. Good luck with sorting out the licence and if you choose to apply for the course then good luck with that too.

[Shane C]

Ahhh that's a real shame...I don't hold a PPL at the moment and my driving licence isn't clean. I have 6 points. I think I now know why my CTC Wings/Flybe application was rejected :(

[FlyingSportsman]

Or perhaps your application was not what they were looking for.

[GoAroundAgain1]

When I read on this that people have not applied for these mentored schemes/cadetships due to a lack of funding. From what I have read, is it not a case of these airlines guaranteeing loans with the banks on behalf of the students which would be paid back over a number of years. Is my understanding of it wrong?

[GoAroundAgain1]

Oh, Aer Lingus did it with the cadets this year(so i believe) its a shame others haven't come onboard and helping students, it would have given students some sort of confidence on gaining employement after deciding to take on such a course. Its so tough for people to commit with such high training cost with nothing guaranteed at the end of it, but yet again, i suppose airlines aren't going to put a financial risk upon themselves in the event of a student failing.. Oh its a tough one, take a gamble by taking on massive loans and run the risks of no employement:=:ugh: or taking the plunge and all working out well and being in the left seat in an A380 in a few years;):ok:

[747craze]

I thought skyways said the BA FPP wasn't due to run until 2014? The application window opens within the next few weeks?

[Paperplanes89]

That's because a large proportion of people on this website don't have a bloomin' clue what they're talking about as they drink their half empty glass of water :ok:

On the flip side though - I wouldn't be where I am today without it. Amongst the doom and gloom (which is occasionally justified) it can be a powerful information resource.

[RMC]

What is the latest on this guys.... my summary of this thread so far

BA - Second phase in progress / they do guarantee loans (and a job at the end)
Another three years left for subsequent phases (it was a five year plan).

West Atlantic sponsoring (but need 150 hours/aged 20 etc).

TCX - No news

Cathay - Do sponsor ex pats.

Monarch - No news

I heard that Quatar sponsored cadets....not mentioned here.

Does anyone have any new info / updates on any of this.

Thanks in advance.